So. Who's for Universal Basic Income?

[Anthony Okrongly + 114]

They are going to do what they are going to do as the U.S. becomes more and more a puppet government of the FED and Bankers. 

The reality is simple. The government is supposed to be paid for By The People out of a small portion of the Productivity of a nation.  The government isn't supposed to PAY people to live in a country and PAY businesses to engage in business in a country. It's not how it works, not only from a logical sense but also from a literal sense. We had that nation until the Great Depression. By allowing The New Deal we started a 100 year march to destroy American Capitalism. This is only the funeral. 

Companies are completely inverted because of government and Fed intervention into the credit markets, BECAUSE of Government debt servicing... which is completely untenable at anything other than a ridiculously low interest rate. So businesses and individuals carry a huge amount of debt - including mortgage debt - and have little to no savings whatsoever. This is 100% the government's fault. 

Case in point, Government Insured Mortgages and a Fed Driven artificial interest rate allows people who have no business buying a home do so. Or they allow people who do have the funds to buy a home for $100,000 buy a $300,000 home instead. In doing so they destroy the fundamental economic foundation of American families.

Case #2, at one time a hard working person could put themself through college with savings form working in high school, some help from parents and a summer job. Now, a college education is like buying a small airplane due to Government Backed Loans. The entire education system has been flooded with substandard teachers and students getting substandard degrees at massively inflated costs because of the government. Used to a smaller percentage of the population had USEFUL degrees and workers were paid for their skills.  Now, everyone has to have a paper degree in idiocy in order to get a job as an assistant store manager or equiv. corporate position. 

Case #3, China has the highest saving rate because there is no government backstop. Government Unemployment Insurance, Medicare, Medicaid, and the illusion of Social Security make it so that people refuse to save because they see no danger is spending every penny and taking on every ounce of debt they are offered. So there is no personal safety net whatsoever.

In a proper economy interest rates pay SAVERS which creates CAPITAL that drives CAPITALISM and creates RETURNS for savers so that they can LIVE off their SAVINGS one day. They don't have to speculate in the Stock Market in order to save because Money Printing doesn't create an inflation rate that is higher than the savings rate. Zero savings return in order to allow massive government debt destroy the basic foundation of capitalism.  IT ALL starts with that.

The money that is saved is government controlled in 401K's and IRA's so that people can't get to it when they need it (like now) without massive penalties just to save a few bucks in taxes and to prop up the stock markets. 

Add to that Obamacare... which is REQUIRED because Medicare and Medicaid have so warped the cost structure of the American Medical system that a routine ER visit for a stitches in your foot costs $10,000+ and is completely unpayable by anyone. 

ALL of these systems are caused by Government Intervention and have created a false economy that is unlivable without ADDITIONAL government intervention to prop up the companies through more of the same so that people can have jobs, until they get laid off and use other government programs to keep stay in their overpriced homes and pay their government low interest rate debt lifestyles. 

So... a basic income?.... It's really just a rounding error on this bloated joke we call an economy but is actually crony capitalism propped up by our out of control government paying themselves all the money they want from a financial system that is nothing more than FED manipulated money printing and artificially low interest rates. 

What SHOULD Happen but never will is the following:

1. Stop all government loans and loan guarantees for education, housing, mortgages, etc.

2. Disband the FED and let interest rates go where they need to go to create the proper balance of savings (which is actual Capital) and borrowing.... WE DO NOT HAVE "Capitalism" because we do not have any "Capital" in America. We have DEBT.

3. Stop government payments for medical services and force the services to charge what the market will bear, not what the government will print. 

4. Shut down the IRA and 401K regulations.  If you save it you can use it.  You pay your taxes and you save your money. How you do that is up to you.

5. Keep food stamps because it's not children's fault that their parents are losers.

6. Stop Crony Capitalism. Drop regulations that give one company an advantage over another. Keep regulations that protect citizens from corporate pollution. Allow and encourage every working group to unionize to do collective bargaining. If food service workers had state or national collective bargaining and they went on strike we wouldn't be having a discussion about "minimum" wage.

7. The government could live on Taxes instead of selling treasuries to the Fed if we dismantled 80% of the Safety Net that makes everyone less safe, and by cutting our military back to a reasonable defense force, not a Star Wars level Empire. No, Darth we don't need a Death Star. Some Tie fighters and an Imperial Class destroyer or two will do, particularly since our two neighboring nations are friendly.

People will suffer. People SHOULD suffer! Suffering will make you save your freaking money. Suffering will make you work harder. There's a button on your body that makes you work.  It's called your belly button, when it touches your spine you get a freaking job!  After graduating from high school my son spent 6 months "trying to find a job" while eating my food and driving my wife's car.  After 6 months I got him a crappy 2 bedroom apartment on the other side of town and put him in it.  NO Utilities (except water), 1 bag of food and some pans (but he couldn't cook because he had no electricity) and a BIKE.  I told him, "get a roommate and get a job." 5 days later he had a job at a restaurant so he could make money and get some food to eat.  A week after that he had a roommate and had the utilities turned on. He was hungry, cold, tired, miserable, lost, desperate... Those experiences last a lifetime. He would NEVER apply for a government program. And he's never asked me for money. We get along famously, he's a great dad and husband. And he takes care of his family.

Families should take care of their children and work together to help their adult children get ahead. They should not count on the government to loan 18 year old people with no experience or resources $100,000 to get a crappy education that is useless to society. If a university with 1 ART HISTORY professor graduates a class of 20 ART HISTORY graduates every year, year after year, then something is terribly wrong!

NO, you don't get to drive a $40,000 car... cars wouldn't cost $40,000.  They would cost an amount that can actually be paid for.  By extension Car Insurance would be way less because it wouldn't have to pay to replace TWO $40,000 cars in a wreck. A family of 4 would live in a 900 square foot house not a 2,900 square foot house. The outside of which would be wood or siding and not stone, and the kitchen counters would be Formica not granite... so what!

So... a basic living income from the government?  Why not!  They are ones who ruined young people's ability to create an actual life for themselves in this Military/Government Dystopia.

Edited March 23, 2020 by Anthony Okrongly

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Anthony, you pig-kissing hard-ass you, where in the world have you been? 

I've missed reading your missiles. There for a bit I was concerned you'd gotten the porcine form of COVID-19 from your pet hog. 

Plus, I wanted to know how that Occidental stock purchase worked out for you. 

😂

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

Most sane people are for the universal income. 

[Chris Tarjeft + 22]

The real problem with Universal Basic Income is it has to come from somewhere and the impact of it gets diminished to nothing with a few years time as rents and wages will adjust to compensate for the "free" money being handed out. 

Are you proposing we take all that money from the 49% that are net tax payers?  The no tax paying people already derive a net benefit from government services, while the tax payers derive much less of one.

If you are proposing the government just print the UBI money, why would nations all around the world continue to value USD as a reserve currency unless we keep a military threat over their head for non-compliance?

People that are truly unable to work, physical or mental ailments already get UBI, it is called Social Security Disability.

Everyone else, it is simple, get to work UBI won't save anyone.

[George8944 + 128]

On 3/23/2020 at 6:45 PM, Gerry Maddoux said:

Plus, I wanted to know how that Occidental stock purchase worked out for you. 

Ha!  I'm an OXY stock holder and more recently I have also become an OXYcodine stock holder because of them.

I'm waiting for their next quarterly report and conference call.  Based on that I wil decide if I want to double down or hold onto my loss so I can claim it as long term loss (vs short term).  My current desire is to double down.  What I'm trying to decide is what the oil landscape will look like in 3-5 years.  I can wait.  What I do know is with their current level of debt, nobody will buy them until bankruptcy.

[George8944 + 128]

On 3/23/2020 at 10:44 AM, Anthony Okrongly said:

People will suffer. People SHOULD suffer! Suffering will make you save your freaking money. Suffering will make you work harder. There's a button on your body that makes you work.  It's called your belly button, when it touches your spine you get a freaking job! 

I loved your rant.  In parts you so sounded like me.  I'm a big advocate of allowing pain. Society tries to eliminate pain in all forms and for all reasons.  Pain serves a vital purpose as you point out.   I am all in on helping those who can't help themselves for whatever reason, but I see relatively few of those cases in the general public.

I also got a kick out of the son's story.  Kudo's to you.  More parents need to do this.  I have a daughter that by her own choosing lives a rather nomadic life.  She has no problem findng temporary jobs as she travels.  She works only enough to catch the next wind.  The amazing part is she's been doing this for about 4 years, was never on unemployment or food stamps and has more money in the bank than the average american.  She spent the winter working for the Alaskan Park Service.  She got free lodging (no running water!) and a small monthly stipend.  She loves it and probably will never come home to lower 48 states again. 

I will never see my belly button the same again.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

^

I also hold Oxy stock: that's the only way I could laugh at Anthony. 

Worst case scenario: Carl Icahn and Warren Buffet own the company. 

Seriously, it all comes down to whether you believe shale is dead, as all the short stories in the headline of this website tell us. And with the exploration investment near zero since 2014, where pray tell, is all the oil going to come from? Russia? Saudi?

I don't think so. I believe the KSA will soon back down--they're going to go broke if they don't. At that point, they have started the sharp decline that is inevitable. They have been goosing those old wells with first hundreds of thousands of gallons of saltwater, then with millions, now with billions. Those wells are truly dinosaurs at this point--not just figuratively. 

Like someone else mentioned, I think all this dense urban living that the kids loved is looking far less attractive now. Look at the epicenters of the pandemic: NYC, Boston, Seattle. I believe when this all over, the scars will be deep and permanent. Bricks and mortar universities, law firms, and high end retail stores are the real canaries in the coal mine. People are going to want to live out in the burbs again, drive to the parks and hiking trails--safe places--in a big old truck or jeep. 

So I think Occidental will be just fine. They own the very finest Permian shale. They will exploit it with austerity. They have no other way out.

[CameronMcGrath + 4]

If we lived at the government's expense, people would live in a big way, I think. Yes, they have destroyed the ability of young people to create a real-life for themselves. We have to pay for absolutely everything, but there is no other way. The government would not be able to steal but also pay citizens what they need, as in the coronavirus case. I have to get out of it and work on everything where I can. I got a job unofficially so that they wouldn't pay taxes for me, and I didn't pay either. I want to live freely without paying for everything. The service tells many life hacks about earning cash and freelancing, where you also do not need to pay taxes.

[BloyGeorge + 1]

Thanks for sharing

[IlonFelt + 1]

Nothing is free right now. Everything has to be paid for, and every dollar has to be justified by some action. Just like that, no one would ever agree to give honestly earned money to someone for a good cause. We don't live in the time or society to think about such things. I, too, agree with the guy who wrote about the likelihood of that money being spent wisely or set aside. If I hadn't read the articles on https://youngandthrifty.ca/ and had good financial literacy, I would have squandered that $1,000 the first day. I'm sure most people are like that.

Edited February 15, 2022 by IlonFelt

[Andrei Moutchkine + 828]

Nearly in effect here in Austria

https://www.wien.gv.at/gesundheit/leistungen/mindestsicherung/

• Singles: 977,94 Euro
• Couples (each) 733,46 Euro
• Each underage child: 264,04 Euro

Edited February 17, 2022 by Andrei Moutchkine

[ronwagn + 6,290]

What a ridiculous idea! We need more people to get off their asses and do their share of the work. The free stuff has to stop, except for the truly needy who are unable to work. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:23 AM, George8944 said:

It comes from their keyboard.  They can create money simply by changing the values in their checking account.   Seriously,  it is that simple for them, not them.

After thought edit... this article may be helpful

https://www.investopedia.com/articles/investing/081415/understanding-how-federal-reserve-creates-money.asp

About midway, you will find this sentence...

"Money creation doesn't have to be physical, either; the central bank can simply imagine up new dollar balances and credit them to other accounts."

It is basically just printing money backed by nothing but the bad faith of government. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

11 hours ago, Andrei Moutchkine said:

Nearby in effect here in Austria

https://www.wien.gv.at/gesundheit/leistungen/mindestsicherung/

• Singles: 977,94 Euro
• Couples (each) 733,46 Euro
• Each underage child: 264,04 Euro

The Polish plan is only given to families with three or more children. At least that has increased the number of births!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 3/24/2020 at 9:39 PM, Gerry Maddoux said:

^

I also hold Oxy stock: that's the only way I could laugh at Anthony. 

Worst case scenario: Carl Icahn and Warren Buffet own the company. 

Seriously, it all comes down to whether you believe shale is dead, as all the short stories in the headline of this website tell us. And with the exploration investment near zero since 2014, where pray tell, is all the oil going to come from? Russia? Saudi?

I don't think so. I believe the KSA will soon back down--they're going to go broke if they don't. At that point, they have started the sharp decline that is inevitable. They have been goosing those old wells with first hundreds of thousands of gallons of saltwater, then with millions, now with billions. Those wells are truly dinosaurs at this point--not just figuratively. 

Like someone else mentioned, I think all this dense urban living that the kids loved is looking far less attractive now. Look at the epicenters of the pandemic: NYC, Boston, Seattle. I believe when this all over, the scars will be deep and permanent. Bricks and mortar universities, law firms, and high end retail stores are the real canaries in the coal mine. People are going to want to live out in the burbs again, drive to the parks and hiking trails--safe places--in a big old truck or jeep. 

So I think Occidental will be just fine. They own the very finest Permian shale. They will exploit it with austerity. They have no other way out.

How does Oxy compare to Conoco Phillips?

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 3/24/2020 at 9:23 PM, George8944 said:

I loved your rant.  In parts you so sounded like me.  I'm a big advocate of allowing pain. Society tries to eliminate pain in all forms and for all reasons.  Pain serves a vital purpose as you point out.   I am all in on helping those who can't help themselves for whatever reason, but I see relatively few of those cases in the general public.

I also got a kick out of the son's story.  Kudo's to you.  More parents need to do this.  I have a daughter that by her own choosing lives a rather nomadic life.  She has no problem findng temporary jobs as she travels.  She works only enough to catch the next wind.  The amazing part is she's been doing this for about 4 years, was never on unemployment or food stamps and has more money in the bank than the average american.  She spent the winter working for the Alaskan Park Service.  She got free lodging (no running water!) and a small monthly stipend.  She loves it and probably will never come home to lower 48 states again. 

I will never see my belly button the same again.

I have a 24 year old granddaughter/adopted daughter still living on the fruit of the home front. She would like to do as your daughter has. I wish she would!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2019/10/poland-family-values-cash-handouts/599968/

The Poland Model—Promoting ‘Family Values’ With Cash Handouts

The country’s governing party, which just won another election, has married right-wing social policy with left-wing economic policy.

By Anna Louie Sussman