Cure for ChinaVirus/Coronavirus/Clovid 19 ?

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

8 minutes ago, J.mo said:

I've been following this site, with a focus on "cases which had an outcome" and the mortality rate has steadily been climbing in that section. Now up to 10%.

I know i have too

I dont understand why its increasing

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

7 hours ago, Rob Plant said:

Very useful  site showing live statistics

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Always interesting to Compare sites against each other. Note how the WHO numbers are now suspect

[Boat + 1,323]

21 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

 

No question China created this mess. They knew they had a crisis and they arrested the doctors trying to warn people about it. They allowed 5 million people to go to parts unknown, with an unknown percentage already infected. I'm not even going to get into the level 4 bio lab that just happened to be where this highly unusual virus originated, nor the fact that it's gone radio silent since the plague went out, even though there's no one better situated to deal with this than they are. The dog that didn't bark? Those researchers don't seem to be trying to "grab credit". Wonder why? 

Your right ward, all this cover up by China was reported in the news. Back in February. 
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-02-07/how-the-global-media-covered-stories-about-the-coronavirus-outbreak?context=amp

Back in January US officials/Trump knew about the virus while several countries reported their first cases. You can’t protect this idiot from just being lousy at his job. 

https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

8 minutes ago, Boat said:

Your right ward, all this cover up by China was reported in the news. Back in February. 
https://www.usnews.com/news/best-countries/articles/2020-02-07/how-the-global-media-covered-stories-about-the-coronavirus-outbreak?context=amp

Back in January US officials/Trump knew about the virus while several countries reported their first cases. You can’t protect this idiot from just being lousy at his job. 

https://www.axios.com/timeline-the-early-days-of-chinas-coronavirus-outbreak-and-cover-up-ee65211a-afb6-4641-97b8-353718a5faab.html

I get it you have a severe case of TDS but when, exactly did Trump institute the China travel ban? Realize there were people in his own administration who were against it, not to mention the entirety of the MSM. About then you were calling him a racist, but now you're saying he wasn't racist enough, early enough? Other than rampant illogic, what are the other debilitating symptoms of TDS? We're doing a study. 

[Boat + 1,323]

On Jan 22 Trump did a tv interview after the first reported virus case. He claimed there was no problem and everything was under control.

Here we are with Trump supporters trying to spread disinformation and blame China when it is extremely obvious Trump dropped the ball costing lives and an eventually crashed economy while adding trillions in debt. 
Reminds me of the last Red Republican crash. Even to this day GW and his cut taxes and loose regulations show massive debt as a result.

We’ll never know the impacts of an early well handled response. We can only dream of what it could have been.

[Boat + 1,323]

9 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

I get it you have a severe case of TDS but when, exactly did Trump institute the China travel ban? Realize there were people in his own administration who were against it, not to mention the entirety of the MSM. About then you were calling him a racist, but now you're saying he wasn't racist enough, early enough? Other than rampant illogic, what are the other debilitating symptoms of TDS? We're doing a study. 

Trump did his travel ban March 11. Today is the 20th. He is a slow learner. He needs less loyal people in the White House and a few more with brains. BTW, more brains probably wouldn’t work as Trump tells them what to think and fires those who think different. An authoritative leader like you see in other failed systems.

Edited March 20, 2020 by Boat

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Just now, Boat said:

Trump did his travel ban March 11. Today is the 20th. He is a slow learner. He needs less loyal people in the White House and a few more with brains.

Wrong dimwit. Travel ban against China! 

Go ask uncle Google

[BLA + 1,666]

13 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

This is a double edged sword. The Communist Party may try to present this as a ‘successfully waged People’s War’, but that assumes that the People ‘drink the Kool Aid’ and somehow agree to ignore the deaths, sickness, quarantines, lack of timely response, economic upheaval and loss of face internationally. To assume that all the Chinese people blindly follow the CCP, when not in public, is silly.

To depend on China to ‘boost themselves out of global recession’ is also a stretch. China will first boost THEMSELVES out of recession and worry about others later. They will begin by calling in all their BRI markers, at a time when others can’t afford to honor them. Any goodwill will disappear. Those countries which were ‘threatened’ by supply chain bottlenecks in China will either move their supply chain components out of China or create redundant supply chains.

It depends if the Chinese people believe it .

Correct but much of the U.S. press believes it and saying so.  CNN, New York Times.

[Bob D + 562]

38 minutes ago, Boat said:

Trump did his travel ban March 11. Today is the 20th. He is a slow learner. He needs less loyal people in the White House and a few more with brains. BTW, more brains probably wouldn’t work as Trump tells them what to think and fires those who think different. An authoritative leader like you see in other failed systems.

You could actually read, become informed and then post.  Or you can just wing it like Boat.  You can't fix stupid!

[BLA + 1,666]

On 3/20/2020 at 1:32 PM, Boat said:

On Jan 22 Trump did a tv interview after the first reported virus case. He claimed there was no problem and everything was under control.

Here we are with Trump supporters trying to spread disinformation and blame China when it is extremely obvious Trump dropped the ball costing lives and an eventually crashed economy while adding trillions in debt. 
Reminds me of the last Red Republican crash. Even to this day GW and his cut taxes and loose regulations show massive debt as a result.

We’ll never know the impacts of an early well handled response. We can only dream of what it could have been.

On January 14th WHO reported that the virus DOES NOT transmit from Human to Human.  Because the Chinese CCP told them so. The CCP LIED.

WHO would not designate the Virus  as a Pandemic until MARCH 11th ! ! !  They were extremely  late ! 

Trump was way ahead of them.

THE WHO and CDC are bloated inefficient organizations.  

Why does WHO like U.S. Main Stream Media defend China actions.  The Chinese secrecy and deception TRASHED THE WORLD ECONOMIES.

Edited March 23, 2020 by BLA

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

21 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

Anyone speculating on the 'Level 4 lab' should read this: https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2020-03/sri-tcc031720.php

 

Quote

The SARS-CoV-2 spike protein was so effective at binding the human cells, in fact, that the scientists concluded it was the result of natural selection and not the product of genetic engineering.

This evidence for natural evolution was supported by data on SARS-CoV-2's backbone - its overall molecular structure. If someone were seeking to engineer a new coronavirus as a pathogen, they would have constructed it from the backbone of a virus known to cause illness. But the scientists found that the SARS-CoV-2 backbone differed substantially from those of already known coronaviruses and mostly resembled related viruses found in bats and pangolins.

"These two features of the virus, the mutations in the RBD portion of the spike protein and its distinct backbone, rules out laboratory manipulation as a potential origin for SARS-CoV-2" said Andersen.

I'm not going to claim (yet) that these scientists are from the same 1000 scholars project that swept up Dr. Lieber from Harvard. But let's just parse the highlighted logic above shall we? 

The claim is that the virus is just too good at what it does, and therefore wasn't engineered in a lab. So right off the bat, they're saying it wouldn't have been effective if it had been engineered? What kind of logic is that? Clearly they're hoping no one actually reads their paper. 

Next they say it would have required modification of an existing human virus? Really, when every major pandemic started from an animal host? Anyone with brains would start with the animal viri then add in the human host receptors, exactly like we observe happened. The Indian researchers ask already keyed on these details, published and have been refuted by hired guns like this. 

Not convinced Meredith, if anything your "refutation" opened my eyes further. I'm even more convinced this was engineered, and either those authors are at the beck and call of the Chinese, or they are so incompetent they don't know how engineering works! 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

The Chinese people are much more likely to support their leadership now than say a month ago. Why? It appears that they have successfully eradicated the COVID-19 virus in mainland China. 

Did it originate in China? Absolutely! Was it manufactured? Contrary to popular opinion, it certainly seems likely. 

Zoonotic viruses usually are world-champions at mutation--yet this one doesn't seem to be doing that. Why not? Well, instead of making its host very ill after the first few waves of replications, it appears to be able to replicate inside its host for up to six days before producing overwhelming symptoms. By that time, the asymptomatic host has infected scads of people. 

I suppose a virus could develop out in the wild with that peculiar and unusual capability but it's unlikely.

[Meredith Poor + 895]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

I'm not going to claim (yet) that these scientists are from the same 1000 scholars project that swept up Dr. Lieber from Harvard. But let's just parse the highlighted logic above shall we? 

The claim is that the virus is just too good at what it does, and therefore wasn't engineered in a lab. So right off the bat, they're saying it wouldn't have been effective if it had been engineered? What kind of logic is that? Clearly they're hoping no one actually reads their paper. 

Next they say it would have required modification of an existing human virus? Really, when every major pandemic started from an animal host? Anyone with brains would start with the animal viri then add in the human host receptors, exactly like we observe happened. The Indian researchers ask already keyed on these details, published and have been refuted by hired guns like this. 

Not convinced Meredith, if anything your "refutation" opened my eyes further. I'm even more convinced this was engineered, and either those authors are at the beck and call of the Chinese, or they are so incompetent they don't know how engineering works! 

Some people reach conclusions and then search for whatever facts support their conclusion. We all do it. At this distance, I have no idea what the facts are. All I know is that a couple of scientists explained why deliberate engineering is unlikely.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

All I know is that a couple of scientists poorly explained why deliberate engineering is unlikely.

There, fixed it for you. Reread what I wrote, quoting their own words. Just add a little logic. I admit my thinking is jaundiced about the CCP, because I've been monitoring them for decades. Are they amoral? No question about it, and proudly so. I previously posted a speech by the head of their military given over a decade ago explaining precisely how and why they needed to develop a bio weapon. 

Something they teach you in the military is that it is more valuable, tactically, to wound an enemy, rather than kill him. A dead soldier is out of the equation, but a wounded soldier occupies four additional soldiers, taking 5 men out of the fight, and hurting the morale of the remainder. One of the arguments against this being a bioweapon is that it isn't lethal enough. But reread what I just explained about lethality. The goal isn't death, never was. You might have a different attitude about the CCP if you spoke Mandarin like I do. Some concepts just don't translate properly. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

2 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

All I know is that a couple of scientists explained why deliberate engineering is unlikely.

Their explanation is soooooooooo backwards it's pathetic. You can take any virus and render its DNA or RNA unto absolute surveillance within just a few hours. There are whole databases on bad viruses. Not only that but a good nucleotide scientist can take spicules of dangerous viruses and capsids of other dangerous viruses, and figure out ways to combine the two so that the worst can happen. Dr. No has finally invaded the virus nucleotide laboratory and he did it with a computer. 

Behind all that is a brain. In most cases the brain of a pretty good man or woman who was attracted to this particular sport by the sheer intellectual beauty of it all--they're in some sort of bubble, innocuous and absorbed. Keep in mind: it only takes one psychopath working for say the Communist Party of China to turn out one evil son of the devil himself. 

Natural viruses just replicate as they will, going here and there, trying things out, eternally searching for a good set of genes upon which to light. They adapt to the host's nucleic acid sequences. Since there are only four nucleic acids--two purines and two pyrimidines--the permutations aren't all that exotic. Even yet, occasionally a really bad virus gets going by natural selection: Spanish flu of 1918, polio, etc. But the Spanish flu got inside your cell machinery on a Tuesday and by Thursday he had you gone. The poliomyelitis virus usually took a bit longer though the one that got my brother did it in just three days. 

On the other hand, it is perfectly logical that parts--a portion of a capsid here, a spike there--of virulent viruses can be put together in such a way as to absolutely do what this one is doing: replicating inside its host for days, allowing for innocent spread by a person who feels just fine, and then reaching the tipping point and flooding the lungs. I'm not saying it's what happened, this Dr. No genetic engineering a killer, but it's a much better explanation for a near perfect virus than one that just puffed along in the wind. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Always interesting to Compare sites against each other. Note how the WHO numbers are now suspect

Deaths divided by cases per worldometer.com 0.041372233664

[John Foote + 1,135]

4 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

The Chinese people are much more likely to support their leadership now than say a month ago. Why? It appears that they have successfully eradicated the COVID-19 virus in mainland China. 

Not eradicated, not even close. But by going to ground, essentially testing those with symptoms that dramatically reduced the spread. The factories I deal with there are up to 95% production compared to pre-virus.

But they are still in semi-lockdown. You work, you go back to your bunk and hit the rack. Those that aren't touch labor mostly working remotely. No going to eat, etc.. Hardly a cure, just managing the situation in a way a totalitarian state does (I decline to call them communists, China just totalitarian with a communist name to make it appeal to some).

The huge USA screw up is in testing and it's a Huey, Duey, Luey thing, not unlike our agencies handling on 9-11, what could/should have been prevented wasn't, but nothing evil on an administration's part. Not deliberately bad. I wish we had closed our borders to every country, you can't get in without a clean test, and even then a two week self-quarantine. But we didn't. The economic shutdown is going to cause a mess. Trump is right about a pseudo war footing. Need a FDR approach, although that comes with a heavy cost. The Spanish flu took out more than WW1 and WW2 combined. We have to treat it seriously.

[Meredith Poor + 895]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

There, fixed it for you. Reread what I wrote, quoting their own words. Just add a little logic. I admit my thinking is jaundiced about the CCP, because I've been monitoring them for decades. Are they amoral? No question about it, and proudly so. I previously posted a speech by the head of their military given over a decade ago explaining precisely how and why they needed to develop a bio weapon. 

Something they teach you in the military is that it is more valuable, tactically, to wound an enemy, rather than kill him. A dead soldier is out of the equation, but a wounded soldier occupies four additional soldiers, taking 5 men out of the fight, and hurting the morale of the remainder. One of the arguments against this being a bioweapon is that it isn't lethal enough. But reread what I just explained about lethality. The goal isn't death, never was. You might have a different attitude about the CCP if you spoke Mandarin like I do. Some concepts just don't translate properly. 

If you want to go on a rampage against China, then it's probably a good idea to encompass every country that has open air live wild game markets. This would include most of Africa, large chunks of South East Asia, and some parts of South America. Our risks come from everywhere. Ebola made it into the US, and no one is blaming that on evil scientists or China.

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Their explanation is soooooooooo backwards it's pathetic. You can take any virus and render its DNA or RNA unto absolute surveillance within just a few hours. There are whole databases on bad viruses. Not only that but a good nucleotide scientist can take spicules of dangerous viruses and capsids of other dangerous viruses, and figure out ways to combine the two so that the worst can happen. Dr. No has finally invaded the virus nucleotide laboratory and he did it with a computer. 

Behind all that is a brain. In most cases the brain of a pretty good man or woman who was attracted to this particular sport by the sheer intellectual beauty of it all--they're in some sort of bubble, innocuous and absorbed. Keep in mind: it only takes one psychopath working for say the Communist Party of China to turn out one evil son of the devil himself. 

Natural viruses just replicate as they will, going here and there, trying things out, eternally searching for a good set of genes upon which to light. They adapt to the host's nucleic acid sequences. Since there are only four nucleic acids--two purines and two pyrimidines--the permutations aren't all that exotic. Even yet, occasionally a really bad virus gets going by natural selection: Spanish flu of 1918, polio, etc. But the Spanish flu got inside your cell machinery on a Tuesday and by Thursday he had you gone. The poliomyelitis virus usually took a bit longer though the one that got my brother did it in just three days. 

On the other hand, it is perfectly logical that parts--a portion of a capsid here, a spike there--of virulent viruses can be put together in such a way as to absolutely do what this one is doing: replicating inside its host for days, allowing for innocent spread by a person who feels just fine, and then reaching the tipping point and flooding the lungs. I'm not saying it's what happened, this Dr. No genetic engineering a killer, but it's a much better explanation for a near perfect virus than one that just puffed along in the wind. 

Gerry, what do you think of the FDA delays? It seems like they have delayed approving test kits that did not have their approval with their own specific testing behind them. Now it seems like they are stalling proven cures for the same reasons. The President seems very frustrated, and I am for sure. 

I would also appreciate anyone else's thoughts on this. This is an old problem that I thought we had partially beaten. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

38 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Gerry, what do you think of the FDA delays? It seems like they have delayed approving test kits that did not have their approval with their own specific testing behind them. Now it seems like they are stalling proven cures for the same reasons. The President seems very frustrated, and I am for sure. 

The FDA is a stodgy, politicized group that has rarely been made up of the best thinkers. They are better and more nimble than in the past, but they are still slower than molasses, more concerned about keeping out bad drugs than rapidly approving good ones. 

When I was still practicing cardiology, it forced us to use some drugs "off-label," which always left one open to a lawsuit and even worse--in case things went south. But they still remind themselves that they prevented phocomelia (limb aplasia from Thalidomide) in the United States, whereas it was not too uncommon in the UK. That is their mantra: We prevented _____________________. Not, we cured__________________.

But a bigger problem is that over the years, America as a nation got lazy. We started out using small gadgets that were "Made in China" and wound up having most of the iPhone made there, along with solar panels and . . . . . . many medical supplies and equipment and drugs and even testing kits. That worked out okay until we decided to slap 25% tariffs on much of the Made in China stuff: unfortunately, some fairly essential items were in those tariff baskets.

So, some of this is on the FDA but a lot of it isn't. Alas, the story gets worse. When Mr. Trump took office, there was a rapid response team at the CDC. They did nothing except respond quickly in the event of contagion. They thought about it every day. They made contingency plans. They took every cough and GI disease seriously.

The last contagion was Ebola, which was quickly handled. The team wasn't deemed essential and the person in charge of that, who worked in prior administrations very closely with the president or VP, was let go. When this current contagion occurred, there was really no one to respond without cutting through red tape. That's the reason you see 79-year-old Tony Fauci at every press briefing--he picked up the reins and is doing a great job. But there's no way to sugar-coat this one: we got a late start. A lot of that was mitigated by banning travel from China, then Europe, now Canada and Mexico. 

Long answer to a short question. Complicated, as is usually the case. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

The FDA is a stodgy, politicized group that has rarely been made up of the best thinkers. They are better and more nimble than in the past, but they are still slower than molasses, more concerned about keeping out bad drugs than rapidly approving good ones. 

When I was still practicing cardiology, it forced us to use some drugs "off-label," which always left one open to a lawsuit and even worse--in case things went south. But they still remind themselves that they prevented phocomelia (limb aplasia from Thalidomide) in the United States, whereas it was not too uncommon in the UK. That is their mantra: We prevented _____________________. Not, we cured__________________.

But a bigger problem is that over the years, America as a nation got lazy. We started out using small gadgets that were "Made in China" and wound up having most of the iPhone made there, along with solar panels and . . . . . . many medical supplies and equipment and drugs and even testing kits. That worked out okay until we decided to slap 25% tariffs on much of the Made in China stuff: unfortunately, some fairly essential items were in those tariff baskets.

So, some of this is on the FDA but a lot of it isn't. Alas, the story gets worse. When Mr. Trump took office, there was a rapid response team at the CDC. They did nothing except respond quickly in the event of contagion. They thought about it every day. They made contingency plans. They took every cough and GI disease seriously.

The last contagion was Ebola, which was quickly handled. The team wasn't deemed essential and the person in charge of that, who worked in prior administrations very closely with the president or VP, was let go. When this current contagion occurred, there was really no one to respond without cutting through red tape. That's the reason you see 79-year-old Tony Fauci at every press briefing--he picked up the reins and is doing a great job. But there's no way to sugar-coat this one: we got a late start. A lot of that was mitigated by banning travel from China, then Europe, now Canada and Mexico. 

Long answer to a short question. Complicated, as is usually the case. 

Gerry and all, I have put together my best finds on the Wuhan Coronavirus. They include another medicine which can be used to defuse the antiinflamatory storm that often kills patients. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MXY8T0j7k0oUBsHW4BfjJM__DRIyzqrDf_FSlV4hHpw/edit#

I will be adding Laura Ingrahams story link from Fox News as soon as it is available. It is one of the best I have seen on this issue. Tucker Carlson and Sean Hannity have been excellent also. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

If you want to go on a rampage against China, then it's probably a good idea to encompass every country that has open air live wild game markets. This would include most of Africa, large chunks of South East Asia, and some parts of South America. Our risks come from everywhere. Ebola made it into the US, and no one is blaming that on evil scientists or China.

Read this and get back to me.

Ebola isn't nearly as contagious as this virus. Almost nothing is. Almost like it was engineered to be highly contagious. 

Viruses aren't intelligent, they don't self select. In fact they're so tiny and simple that they're not capable of much. However they mutate, but this one doesn't. Curious that. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

 

“Correct but much of the U.S. press believes it andsaying so.  CNN, New York Times.”

I didn’t think that anyone with an IQ greater than frozen yogurt believed ANYTHING from CNN or the Times anymore...

[surrept33 + 609]

22 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

This is a double edged sword. The Communist Party may try to present this as a ‘successfully waged People’s War’, but that assumes that the People ‘drink the Kool Aid’ and somehow agree to ignore the deaths, sickness, quarantines, lack of timely response, economic upheaval and loss of face internationally. To assume that all the Chinese people blindly follow the CCP, when not in public, is silly.

To depend on China to ‘boost themselves out of global recession’ is also a stretch. China will first boost THEMSELVES out of recession and worry about others later. They will begin by calling in all their BRI markers, at a time when others can’t afford to honor them. Any goodwill will disappear. Those countries which were ‘threatened’ by supply chain bottlenecks in China will either move their supply chain components out of China or create redundant supply chains.

Well, this is the type of propaganda that people are getting fed in China:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/xismoments

That's from China's national english language paper, I'm sure it's worse in Mandarin.

That being said, I suspect the CCP will sink or swim with the economy. That kind of is the implicit social contract. And China, as a result getting coronavirus, might be well positioned in the global economic recovery. It's equity and credit markets have been relatively safe havens recently at least since the worst appears to be behind them (even if the official case numbers are cooked).

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Dug this up in the Way back machine. The owner of Medium, where this was published originally is a founder of Twitter and his politics are well known. They were more than happy to delete the original. Unfortunately the graphics didn't make it.