Cure for ChinaVirus/Coronavirus/Clovid 19 ?

[Meredith Poor + 897]

18 hours ago, 0R0 said:

This was all true till the recent generation took over the Politburo and then appointed Xi. Since then, there had been a powerful attempt to expand Chinese influence and create the infrastructure of a mercantilist empire with the belt and road initiative (BRI). Particularly the ports and pipelines on either side of India and the canal through Thailand. All thought to be a means to get around an American blockade, should  it come to that. Unfortunately for China, they have the wrong end of the stick. It is the US that is preventing China from being blockaded by the shared interests of the island countries all around the periphery of the S China Sea to pirate away shipping from and to China, as they had done from time immemorial. And as those Imperial powers that had carved out China had colonized the islands in order to assure the safety of their mercantile fleets and blow the other Empire's ships out of the water or at least steal their cargo. 

As @Ward Smith pointed out there had been a long standing design to take the US for its rich resources in order to feed China and let them have room to expand. Not enslave Americans, but kill them and take the land. All sorts of fictional claims were spouted to justify doing so on historical pretexts. 

Xi thinks that China can be the world hegemon by virtue of industrial strength and population the same way he thought that China could be the Financial capital of the world when he opened the financial markets in the Shanghai special economic zone designed to be a global financial center. But instead of Trillions of dollars flowing in, there was a huge gush of capital flowing out at this opportunity for Chinese to legally take their money and run. It didn't last long and was shut down immediately after the first trillion dollars had flown the coop. Think of it as the management of a department store opening up the doors for their great sale event and instead of the expected crowds rushing to go in, a torrent of vendors and employees flee the store with their merchandise. 

Xi is at a hard break from the past, expecting to be able to "make the world safe for the CCP" by dominating it mercantilistically through cornering key strategic markets. It was a long term strategy that captured 90% of pharmaceutical precursors sole sourced in China, and rare earths production, and trace element refining out of copper, key high volume chips that ended up even in US military equipment. The experience of the Wuhan Virus has shown the world that China is a negative sum game for the West from this point onwards and there will be a massive effort to tear out China from the global supply chains by the roots. All of China's key monopoly industries will be duplicated two or three times over for ASEAN, for N. America and for Europe. Nobody will care what the cost is, because they will never have business interruption insurance again if they continue doing business in China. 

 

I suspect that US (and other first world countries) policy will evolve in the following direction:

1. Airport security will include not just weapon and illicit materials smuggling, but as much health assessment as can be done in a quick scan. Some of this will be done via scanners at the airport. However, there will be a broader review of public health policies in the country in question. Countries that have high risk factors for animal to human transmission will have onerous demands made on their travelers, and uncooperative countries simply won't have direct flights at all. This could very well mean that direct flights from China to the US will stop, but it will also apply to many countries in Africa that sell wild animal meat in open air markets. This could be extended to other kinds of health risks if these become apparent.

2. A global protocol for health risk assessment will be put in place that defines how medical professionals and government officials will handle evidence of an outbreak. This might end up being a multi-tiered system so that initial reports arrive at multiple levels of government and at least one international body simultaneously, so that it isn't possible for local officials (or national officials) to obstruct bad news. This doesn't necessarily mean that the outbreak will be publicized in short notice, but it will give health authorities the means to react in something close to 'real time'.

3. Airports, seaports, and military bases will be fitted out with 'pop-up' quarantine facilities so that people won't be left at sea for weeks and citizens can come home regardless of their health status. One component of this would be special vehicles that can transport known cases between ships and hospitals (for example) that are designed for isolation and easy disinfection. Freight aircraft might be set up with roll-in modules that are designed to transport infected people hermetically sealed from the pilots.Ships will have a 'designated alternative port' so if something breaks out they can go there directly, and the port will be equipped for their arrival. In most countries this is likely to be a military base, since this might also be necessary for military ships.

This is likely to affect all kinds of global commerce, and will be another example of 'loss of sovereignity'. Travelers expecting convenience will have to allow certain health assessments - if they refuse then they may have to wait in isolation or be sequestered in separate compartments.

A lot of this gets complicated by gender, sexual orientation, and religion issues, among other things. Imagine, for example, that such a protocol was in effect with the AIDS virus started to spread - this is a contagion but was governed by sexual behavior rather than simply touching surfaces or breathing someone's sneeze droplets.

Edited March 22, 2020 by Meredith Poor
Fix spelling error

[0R0 + 6,251]

Interesting ideas Meredith, but the Chinese would not ever allow it. And since they hold the record on such transmissions  - zoonotic or leaked experimental samples/infections (E.g. 4 SARS releases that they didn't manage to hide) then there is no point in having such a system. Besides, the US is not all clean on the issue either as it has had its own sourcing of outbreaks. Though nothing as bad as this one. So I don't expect a US sign off either. 

The general consideration here is that this is regarded as a once in a century pandemic. So there will be more monitoring. But the main change will be commercial -  financing will require insurance, and insurance will require bypassing China or a pile of inventory for business interruption insurance and some business travel insurance 

There is no international organization that the US will allow to make determinations about itself and its people, so that is not a possible item on the agenda. The US experience of such organizations is that they are undermined by political interventions usually aimed at the US by China Iran Syria and Russia as well as other players. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

4 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

It is your opinion that the POTUS is immune from stupid decisions.

It is not my opinion, but fact that the president's decisions are informed by the experts around him. It is entirely likely that two experts gave opposing advice. He's got to make a decision with faulty, incomplete information. I'd rather have a president who could still make a decision under those circumstances, than one who succumbs to analysis paralysis. 

It's easy for you to play Monday morning quarterback, you still haven't backed off your obviously false accusation, ripped no doubt from politifact, those liars of some renown. In context, Trump was discussing a subset of cases. You've blithely ignored that exculpatory evidence, and stuck to your (uninformed, obviously) opinion facts be damned. TDS on display again. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

It is not my opinion, but fact that the president's decisions are informed by the experts around him. It is entirely likely that two experts gave opposing advice.

Sure, but he selectively chooses those experts.

The dude made a ton of money off just saying "you're fired."  Think many of his "experts" tell him he is wrong?

[El Nikko + 2,145]

This hysteria has totally got out of control, we've had plenty of pandemics before. There are always the same terrible predictions of huge death rates but they never materialize. Even if it's double or tripple a normal flu season it's not much in the grand scheme of things but my feeling is (in wealthier countries at least) the numbers will be quite low. I'm not being calous but we've pretty much pressed the big red self destruct button and China must be laughing themselves to the bank right now.

There seems to be questions about the death toll attributed to the virus in Italy as well

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/global-health/science-and-disease/have-many-coronavirus-patients-died-italy/

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Sure, but he selectively chooses those experts.

The dude made a ton of money off just saying "you're fired."  Think many of his "experts" tell him he is wrong?

I know you're a slow learner, but I've pointed to the Civil Service Act countless times in these threads. It specifically protects civil service employees from getting fired. You and I have even discussed this before. Therefore, even in the face of the gross incompetence and neglect of some at the CDC and FDA, they can't be fired. They can be reassigned one would hope, or simply ignored. You act like that's a bad thing. To those living in the real world, where the dog eat dog survival of the fittest exists, this is just the way of life. Businesses don't get to be incompetent indefinitely the way government bunglecrats are. You're offended by that because you were one of them. 

Trump is getting imperfect information. He's begun to filter out the worst inputs. He's navigating uncharted territory and you're sitting there casting judgement. Meanwhile, your glorious leader is copying Trump's moves! Ironic eh? 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

38 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

I know you're a slow learner, but I've pointed to the Civil Service Act countless times in these threads. It specifically protects civil service employees from getting fired. You and I have even discussed this before. Therefore, even in the face of the gross incompetence and neglect of some at the CDC and FDA, they can't be fired. They can be reassigned one would hope, or simply ignored. You act like that's a bad thing. To those living in the real world, where the dog eat dog survival of the fittest exists, this is just the way of life. Businesses don't get to be incompetent indefinitely the way government bunglecrats are. You're offended by that because you were one of them. 

Trump is getting imperfect information. He's begun to filter out the worst inputs. He's navigating uncharted territory and you're sitting there casting judgement. Meanwhile, your glorious leader is[following bullshit]

 

Your friend Jan irrationally claimed I was fired - such logic

[notsonice + 1,259]

3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Sure, but he selectively chooses those experts.

The dude made a ton of money off just saying "you're fired."  Think many of his "experts" tell him he is wrong?

Bow down and pay your respect to the genius  “Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest -and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault,” Trump tweeted in 2013. Hope Trump (with his IQ that is higher than all of us) figures out fast that Putin and MBS are out to destroy the US economy fast before all of us are out of work. Oil and gas Industry in the US is toast, but remember we all should be happy with cheap gas. You're fired is a small price to pay for cheap gas.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

35 minutes ago, notsonice said:

Bow down and pay your respect to the genius  “Sorry losers and haters, but my I.Q. is one of the highest -and you all know it! Please don't feel so stupid or insecure, it's not your fault,” Trump tweeted in 2013. Hope Trump (with his IQ that is higher than all of us) figures out fast that Putin and MBS are out to destroy the US economy fast before all of us are out of work. Oil and gas Industry in the US is toast, but remember we all should be happy with cheap gas. You're fired is a small price to pay for cheap gas.

I'm not sure if you are joking or serious...?

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Trump can barely form a sentence.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192]

14 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Good response. To start however, it isn't an "article" it's a speech given by their top general. It shows the mindset of the Politburo, especially the military leg. 

There's an excellent book about that expedition called 1421. I've got it around here someplace and read it when it first came out. True or not, the author makes some big claims but backs them up with intriguing evidence. The reason the expedition was "deleted" had to do with a lightning strike on the forbidden city, which told the mandarins that the Heavens didn't look auspiciously on the venture. New management took over and then China went into isolationism. Two concepts from that. First, the mandate from heaven is still a Chinese concept, and don't doubt for a minute that hundreds of millions of Chinese citizens aren't contemplating that the CCP might be past their expiration date. Second is what happens to a super power, which China certainly was, when it becomes isolationist? A cautionary tale for the US.

Want to know something really funny?  The Qing Dynasty had zilch to do with the Han Chinese other than them being subjugated slaves of the Manchu people who were forced out of their homes due to starvation during the little ice age.  China got its freedom when the Qing dynasty fell.  1421, were Ming and were Han and did not hold inner Mongolia or any of western China.   Only for a brief period during the Ming Dynasty have the Han been in charge, yet they play their map games.  It is quite humorous.  I keep waiting for the Persians, Turks, Brits, Italians to start claiming the whole world for themselves based on "Han" uh.... "logic". 

As for the isolationist part: Had nothing to do with it, but rather slavery/corruption stifling innovation of the common man when left to their own devices.  And NO, China was not isolationist.  They traded silk, china, gold, spices, etc just as they have always done for the last 2000+ years.  Demanding payment for trading rights at port cities happens everywhere.  This is no different than airport gate buying or port docking rights which are bought TODAY and were 100% true before the WTO/GTA, Bretton woods.  The only thing you can blame China for is that their Geography is so good, after consolidation(wars, genocides etc) about ~2000 years ago, that they had no need to travel much and because there were fewer conflicts between nations as China is isolated other than with Korea and is massively larger and why Korea has been a tribute state for most of its existence. 

[Prometheus1354 + 178]

On 3/19/2020 at 11:08 AM, Enthalpic said:

Mentioning me in every post, so cute.

Blaming China for everything is so much more logical.

V

Who would you like us to blame? The President?? After all, clearly HE ordered the release of the disease upon the unknowing people of Wuhan. Clearly he ordered the local officials too 'keep quiet Or ELSE' about this action. Thus, an overt act of war. The disease' root of origin is IN Wuhan {wait for it} China. (Ahem)  Stop whatever you're doing and go Straight too the nearest ER; as clearly you have TDS Level 37!!  

[0R0 + 6,251]

8 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Want to know something really funny?  The Qing Dynasty had zilch to do with the Han Chinese other than them being subjugated slaves of the Manchu people who were forced out of their homes due to starvation during the little ice age.  China got its freedom when the Qing dynasty fell.  1421, were Ming and were Han and did not hold inner Mongolia or any of western China.   Only for a brief period during the Ming Dynasty have the Han been in charge, yet they play their map games.  It is quite humorous.  I keep waiting for the Persians, Turks, Brits, Italians to start claiming the whole world for themselves based on "Han" uh.... "logic". 

As for the isolationist part: Had nothing to do with it, but rather slavery/corruption stifling innovation of the common man when left to their own devices.  And NO, China was not isolationist.  They traded silk, china, gold, spices, etc just as they have always done for the last 2000+ years.  Demanding payment for trading rights at port cities happens everywhere.  This is no different than airport gate buying or port docking rights which are bought TODAY and were 100% true before the WTO/GTA, Bretton woods.  The only thing you can blame China for is that their Geography is so good, after consolidation(wars, genocides etc) about ~2000 years ago, that they had no need to travel much and because there were fewer conflicts between nations as China is isolated other than with Korea and is massively larger and why Korea has been a tribute state for most of its existence. 

China was only unified for brief periods till the Mongol emperors (Qing if I recall correctly). 

I posted maps of ancient to medieval Chinese kingdoms in a prior thread on this forum. I argued to the Chinese commie promoters that the historical record can only justify that China split up into several separate states, all of which have an historical claim to independence from the occupying force from Beijing. .

China didn't develop a successful naval commerce outside the S. China Sea because its ships were attacked by (state sponsored) pirates whenever they navigated between the many islands at the periphery of S China sea. 

[specinho + 470]

20 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

It is your opinion that the POTUS is immune from stupid decisions.

The group might have been vaccinated for stupidity....... with some differing adverse effects........ as usual??

Edited March 22, 2020 by specinho

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

On 3/22/2020 at 5:13 PM, 0R0 said:

China was only unified for brief periods till the Mongol emperors (Qing if I recall correctly). 

I posted maps of ancient to medieval Chinese kingdoms in a prior thread on this forum. I argued to the Chinese commie promoters that the historical record can only justify that China split up into several separate states, all of which have an historical claim to independence from the occupying force from Beijing. .

China didn't develop a successful naval commerce outside the S. China Sea because its ships were attacked by (state sponsored) pirates whenever they navigated between the many islands at the periphery of S China sea. 

You don't recall correctly. Quin dynasty (whose First Emperor united China) lasted for 250 years. That's still a few decades longer than your so called "U Es of A". If your "commie" was worth his salt, he would have told you that the States should be divided back between England, France, Holland, Portugal and Spain, or better yet to the native inhabitants they have been originally stolen from. But you conveniently forgot the Han dynasty that is called "The Golden Age of Ancient China" and that lasted some 4 hundred years. So, back to school, my friend, I give you C- from Asian history, better luck next time. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

4 minutes ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

If your "commie" was worth his salt, he would have told you that the States should be divided back between England, France, Holland, Portugal and Spain, or better yet to the native inhabitants they have been originally stolen from.

If they wanted to maintain ownership they should have opened a title company. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

You don't recall correctly. Quin dynasty (whose First Emperor united China) lasted for 250 years. That's still a few decades longer than your so called "U Es of A". If your "commie" was worth his salt, he would have told you that the States should be divided back between England, France, Holland, Portugal and Spain, or better yet to the native inhabitants they have been originally stolen from. But you conveniently forgot the Han dynasty that is called "The Golden Age of Ancient China" and that lasted some 4 hundred years. So, back to school, my friend, I give you C- from Asian history, better luck next time. 

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

Yes, I didn't remember it correctly. But the general view is still that China has had most of its history as separate kingdoms, and were unified mostly from outside. The Han period was not that stable.