Why Trump Is Right to Re-Open the Economy

[James Regan + 1,776]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

@James Regan

James, you ignorant slut (before everyone gets their knickers in a twist, this is a take off from a classic line by Chevy Case, directed at Jane Curtain, on Saturday Night Live back in the days that it was comedy...), at least I know which part of a paintbrush to hold on to and which parts of a sheep to eat!

@Douglas Buckland

"Did you get a free bowl of soup with that haircut....." - Movie?

Regarding painting I can imagine the job you did, Jackson Pollock comes to mind......

As for the Sheep being from Aberdeen that's why we use wellington boots so the sheep can't run away....... Wahay the SheepShaggers

Edited April 3, 2020 by James Regan

[James Regan + 1,776]

2 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

I'm offended.  Prove me wrong.

(Hint: it's impossible to prove a negative)

It like beauty and ignorance its in the eye of the beholder.....

Thats why Tree huggers and Dems can't stop getting their feelings hurt

And Douglas

Edited April 3, 2020 by James Regan

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

19 minutes ago, James Regan said:

It like beauty and ignorance its in the eye of the beholder.....

Thats why Tree huggers and Dems can't stop getting their feelings hurt

And Douglas

Careful, you might offend trees

[mr rex juras mellon 0]

covid19, covid20

and beyond.

what u see in mvies is what u get in real life. it is statistics. that is he job of nsa/cia/watson -artificla intellignece and .

thye know it is enoughtf to scare sufficient number of dumb people, meida whore and create a global scare covid19.

 

u cna see the nes -see the news traisl 2 months back they rperted covid19 and slolwy creeping behnid us thye made it a global virus.

st see annual death in afica, india and othe rpoor countires due t poverty etc.

and see the attention giv eto this crap covid19 -respiratory disease.

 

these b atards of america and their hore in india, saudi, are playing iwht fire. all tax payers menoy, forex rmeiitance by  indinas$60 billion annually has been syustematicall ylooted year after years. that is th real threat. financial armageddon.

america inc better realise this and own up.

in america wallst fu kcig whor es have looted all state pension funds - CLApRs, CALSTR and 100 other funds.

pimoc's, vanguards all these hores hv to put ni permanent lockup wiht presdie tbush, clintons, omobama. ass h 0les.

 thes em 0ther fucknig whores will  < deleted by moderator >

those sadui royal wh ores thye will  < deleted by moderator >

even fire fighter hv been robbed of their pension.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by Tom Kirkman
Moderator edit, deleting violent and racist parts.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 3/26/2020 at 7:24 AM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Cuomo: No expert supported Trump's Easter timeline

Cuomo was the worst possible leader at the beginning of the coronavirus epidemic in NYC. He gave it a great start, and is now trying to catch up after letting the horse out of the barn. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, mr rex juras mellon said:

 thes em 0ther fucknig whores will  < deleted by moderator >

those sadui royal wh ores thye will  < deleted by moderator >

Please tone it down a bit, Mr. Rex.  I don't mind the general gist of your comment, but rather the way you present it.  Violent comments are not ok here.

You might be surprised I agree with you more than I disagree with you, as my normal daily newsfeed is from 8kun.  Eye roll at MSM.

Anyway, you may wish to review our Community Guidelines
 

[Jonathan Galt + 40]

On 3/25/2020 at 12:49 AM, Enthalpic said:

H1N1 had a vaccine in short order.

Nobody said Zika would kill us, it was just going to hurt babies. Mosquito control is rather easy if you have money.

There is not enough evidence for any treatment at this point to get rid of social distancing.

Sorry, but trump just doesn't want to hold the reins during the one of the greatest economic collapses of all time.  It might not be entirely his fault, but nobody wins reelection when the public is unemployed and fearing death so he wants to downplay this.

Wear the silly red hat at funerals and in the unemployment lines?

 

 

H1N1 was a flu virus variant.  Our medical industry has been spooled up for decades to produce vaccines for those. There are none for Corona viruses.

Contagion modelers are now making the case that a response closer to that of Sweden (stay at home if you are in a high risk group, wash your hands, live your life) may actually result in lower total infections by developing "herd immunity."  You can hand-wave all day long that a lock down is the best policy, but neither you nor anybody else knows that for sure.

Sorry, but the U.S. reaction to his is probably a reasonable balance, and putting 60 million people out of work for a year is NOT.  Please keep spreading this idea, though - we will be laughing at you on election day as we listen to the anguished wails and sky screams once again.

[osagamito + 3]

This reminds me of the climate issue. I really hope you guys are right and everything will be ok, but if you're not then we've got a huge problem on our hands.

Also, a lot of you are ok with the old and weak dying, but younger people are dying too. Will you change your mind on this issue if your best friend, spouse, sibling, mom or dad dies? What if your kid has an genetic weakness to the virus and dies.

Would you rather the country goes through a recession or roll a 20 sided die on a loved one dying? If you were given this choice right now, would you roll the die or allow a recession?

Not saying I'm right/you're right... any of that. Just asking the question.

 

Edited April 3, 2020 by osagamito

[REAL Green + 65]

Macroeconomic consequences of Covid19

 PBS twing   

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

19 minutes ago, Jonathan Galt said:

H1N1 was a flu virus variant.  Our medical industry has been spooled up for decades to produce vaccines for those. There are none for Corona viruses.

Contagion modelers are now making the case that a response closer to that of Sweden (stay at home if you are in a high risk group, wash your hands, live your life) may actually result in lower total infections by developing "herd immunity."  You can hand-wave all day long that a lock down is the best policy, but neither you nor anybody else knows that for sure.

Sorry, but the U.S. reaction to his is probably a reasonable balance, and putting 60 million people out of work for a year is NOT.  Please keep spreading this idea, though - we will be laughing at you on election day as we listen to the anguished wails and sky screams once again.

Trump already backed away from his early reopening (Easter) plan that was being praised on this thread. That idea is gone. He is right for keeping the economy closed longer and abandoning that dumb idea.

We know you can't catch a virus sealed in a bubble (germ theory).  Yes, herd immunity works in-the-long-term but only after it infects (or kills) a large percentage of the population.  Not a good game plan with a novel virus.

I hope you can still laugh on election day.  I don't live there so it's always amusing to me even if I disagree with your choices.

Florida is trump land, when it gets extra bad there (or other pure red states) watch policies change quick!  Peoples' opinion on this will change when they start personally knowing the dead instead of it being some statistic.

Cheers.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Think of social distancing like using a condom. 

They aren't perfect but they do help prevent the spread of germs by creating a distance / barrier (like your home) between you and the germs.

Edited April 3, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

34 minutes ago, Jonathan Galt said:

H1N1 was a flu virus variant.  Our medical industry has been spooled up for decades to produce vaccines for those. There are none for Corona viruses.

CDC website

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html

Human Coronavirus Types

Coronaviruses are named for the crown-like spikes on their surface. There are four main sub-groupings of coronaviruses, known as alpha, beta, gamma, and delta.

Human coronaviruses were first identified in the mid-1960s. The seven coronaviruses that can infect people are:

Common human coronaviruses

• 229E (alpha coronavirus)
• NL63 (alpha coronavirus)
• OC43 (beta coronavirus)
• HKU1 (beta coronavirus)

Other human coronaviruses

• MERS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes Middle East Respiratory Syndrome, or MERS)
• SARS-CoV (the beta coronavirus that causes severe acute respiratory syndrome, or SARS)
• SARS-CoV-2 (the novel coronavirus that causes coronavirus disease 2019, or COVID-19)

People around the world commonly get infected with human coronaviruses 229E, NL63, OC43, and HKU1.

Sometimes coronaviruses that infect animals can evolve and make people sick and become a new human coronavirus. Three recent examples of this are 2019-nCoV, SARS-CoV, and MERS-CoV.

Page last reviewed: February 15, 2020
Content source: National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases (NCIRD), Division of Viral Diseases
 

[UNC12345 + 171]

Bob, Bobinator, Bobalicious, will you admit that Trump said the virus was completely under control and the number of cases would be zero in a short time, that it would go away like a miracle?  I'll keep it simple so you don't launch into other things.  Will you admit this one small thing for me?

[Geoff Guenther + 317]

So the lockdown that isn't really a lockdown has been extended from Easter to the end of the month. Has anyone heard of a plan for what's after? I assume we'll all have a big hug-great on Memorial day and by Father's day we'll be back in quarantine.  

I really hope Dr Fauci can remain a while longer. He's walking that fine line between telling the truth and not contradicting Trump.

While he can't create a strategy by himself, I'm sure there are still enough good people left that could help formulate one. Maybe look at the Korean model and try to emulate it?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

10 hours ago, James Regan said:

@Douglas Buckland

"Did you get a free bowl of soup with that haircut....." - Movie?

Regarding painting I can imagine the job you did, Jackson Pollock comes to mind......

As for the Sheep being from Aberdeen that's why we use wellington boots so the sheep can't run away....... Wahay the SheepShaggers

You gotta problem with Jackson Pollock’s work?

[0R0 + 6,251]

15 hours ago, REAL Green said:

I have said this from the beginning this virus may not be worse than the flu technically or statistically but in the real world it is something.  The reason being our modern world is not capable of dealing with it because it has been constructed in a brittle way that allows pandemics massive effect through global travel and value chains.  This is human and economic so comparing the flu and covid19 is not a valid comparison.  This comparison is something low IQ people do who cannot dig deeper into these issues.  I am not happy about the suffering but in my opinion this shock is needed.  It will cause necessary change by a deep recession or depression which will forces a reset to something more sustainable.  This will be global.  This may be better or worse but something was needed.  Worse was coming anyway let’s get on with changes because time was running out.  The world was not on a sustainable path.  It will turn people local by more default and everyone will be involved.  Everyone will be poorer at once through the same haircut.  The virus is fairness in action.  There will be finger pointing but only the usual low IQ kind that points fingers anyway.  The virus is doing this.  It is a pandemic that can't be handled systematically.  The tipping points were there pre-virus and they are many and varied.   The virus only initiated the slide.

It requires a regionalization of the bulk of trade and a detachment from China's CCP. Duplicate all of the sole sourced capacity in China so that when the next item slips out of the Biosecurity lab at Wuhan, or its successor ramshackle "you can trust us" containment lab,  it does not make us hesitate to pull the plug on China BEFORE it sends out millions bearing an unknowable number of viruses. . 

[PE Scott + 563]

1 hour ago, Geoff Guenther said:

So the lockdown that isn't really a lockdown has been extended from Easter to the end of the month. Has anyone heard of a plan for what's after?

I left my crystal ball and tarot cards at the office. I'm guessing policy makers are having similar difficulties and unable to retrieve them while working from home.

Does setting an expiration date on the quarantine period really bother people that much when the deadlines clearly shift as new information is provided? 

The feds set a minimum response, the individual states are still able to elect a stricter response as they feel appropriate, which some have. Clearly this too should be a function of your population, its density, average age, etc. Its probably not a one-size-fits-all type of solution.

I imagine the plan for what happens after is a moving target right now as the scientific community struggles to come up with better tests and drugs to combat this virus. To currently say with certainty what the best course of action is 30 days from now would make you either a liar or a fool. Just my opinion. 

 

Edit: To be fair, I agree a number of strategies could be discussed now. I just imagine that is happening but there isnt enough confidence in any of those plans to present them to the public yet.  

I also admit theres a good chance President Trump will get ahead of this and at some point speak to an optimistic plan that ends up being completely unrealistic. He's certainly done this kind of thing before, but it's hard to fault him for being optimistic. I *think* he's one of those guys that hopes for the best but plans for the worse. I assume the top tiers of government are all mostly onboard with this strategy regardless of political affiliation.

Edited April 4, 2020 by PE Scott

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Geoff Guenther said:

So the lockdown that isn't really a lockdown has been extended from Easter to the end of the month. Has anyone heard of a plan for what's after? I assume we'll all have a big hug-great on Memorial day and by Father's day we'll be back in quarantine.  

I really hope Dr Fauci can remain a while longer. He's walking that fine line between telling the truth and not contradicting Trump.

While he can't create a strategy by himself, I'm sure there are still enough good people left that could help formulate one. Maybe look at the Korean model and try to emulate it?

I think we continue with physical distancing for the high risk population - not with general lockdowns. 

We knew not to do lockdowns because China did it. Instead we should have done the rational thing and guarded the high risk group and slowed down the virus propagation by keeping kids at home, students at home rather than spring break. Or the Welsh beaches. 

People need to learn to avoid reliance on government, experts and authority, and rapidly educate themselves. Like, you don't take the decision to close the schools to slow the spread of a contagion to mean that it is a good idea to send them to grandma so they can kill her. Or that school is out and an extra paid leave is what we have so we go to Mardi Gras and beach party orgies. Know that when experts disagree you can be sure that government will not make rational decisions. So you should remove their power to decide. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 minute ago, PE Scott said:

I left my crystal ball and tarot cards at the office. I'm guessing policy makers are having similar difficulties and unable to retrieve them while working from home.

Does setting an expiration date on the quarantine period really bother people that much when the deadlines clearly shift as new information is provided? 

The feds set a minimum response, the individual states are still able to elect a stricter response as they feel appropriate, which some have. Clearly this too should be a function of your population, its density, average age, etc. Its probably not a one-size-fits-all type of solution.

I imagine the plan for what happens after is a moving target right now as the scientific community struggles to come up with better tests and drugs to combat this virus. To currently say with certainty what the best course of action is 30 days from now would make you either a liar or a fool. Just my opinion. 

At some point we will need to deliberately spread the disease to promote immunity, otherwise we will have recurrences as most of us in the interior of the US are still not exposed. As opposed to at least half of metro New Yorkers and Michiganders, and a quarter of Californians, and soon a large minority of Floridians.Positive test rates are 5-8% in the interior of the US. And most of that is in the larger cities and their immediate suburbs. It is counterproductive to leave that portion of the country without substantial immunity. 

Considering the dangerous results obtained from SARS vaccines already developed, I am very much in doubt that we will have a traditional vaccine to provide immunity from the next breakout of this SARS variant.  The deadly cytokine storm you get among those vaccinated for old SARS when they re-encounter the virus is precisely what makes this current CV19 so deadly. The vaccine is most likely to make it worse. 

I am expecting virocidal treatment to be the only option to natural immunity, which we can only hope is sufficiently strong to prevent recurrence but not as strong as SARS vaccines make it so it is more of an immune explosion that kills you, than saves you.

[WayneMechEng + 89]

On 3/24/2020 at 10:49 PM, Enthalpic said:

There is not enough evidence for any treatment at this point to get rid of social distancing.

Now it is April 3 and things have improved.  Many doctors (experts) have been guests on shows like "The Ingraham Angle".  Well known malaria medicines that are being used in many countries, including the USA, are having good results.  Dr. Fauci's clinical trials will be needed in the future.  However, the FDA has approved the use of these malaria medicines when prescribed by a doctor.

President Trump is doing a good job, considering past administrations had not built up stockpiles for pandemics.  Governor Cuomo of New York is handling his state's emergencies very well.  I am retired and have the time to watch both men on TV every day.  Good reporting is always hampered by their need for "sound bites" that may filter original content or intent.  Other reporters intentionally twist and omit important information, for their own agendas.

W.H.O. has turned out to be a joke like the U.N.  China had the current leader appointed and he passed on their lie that the virus was not transmitted between humans.  It is also obvious that the Asian countries were better prepared.  All the folks had plenty of masks on hand and are accustomed to wearing them, unlike North Americans.

My observation is that when you are employed and have a family, very little time is available to research information.  Before retiring, I was too busy just trying to keep up professionally.  If you have limited time, I recommend the Fox News channel programs.  If you don't want their politics, just choose their news shows.  You will see clips of what leaders really said, including the left, without filters and omissions.  They also show clips from other networks, so you can compare and contrast.

[PE Scott + 563]

1 minute ago, 0R0 said:

At some point we will need to deliberately spread the disease to promote immunity, otherwise we will have recurrences as most of us in the interior of the US are still not exposed. As opposed to at least half of metro New Yorkers and Michiganders, and a quarter of Californians, and soon a large minority of Floridians.Positive test rates are 5-8% in the interior of the US. And most of that is in the larger cities and their immediate suburbs. It is counterproductive to leave that portion of the country without substantial immunity. 

Considering the dangerous results obtained from SARS vaccines already developed, I am very much in doubt that we will have a traditional vaccine to provide immunity from the next breakout of this SARS variant.  The deadly cytokine storm you get among those vaccinated for old SARS when they re-encounter the virus is precisely what makes this current CV19 so deadly. The vaccine is most likely to make it worse. 

I am expecting virocidal treatment to be the only option to natural immunity, which we can only hope is sufficiently strong to prevent recurrence but not as strong as SARS vaccines make it so it is more of an immune explosion that kills you, than saves you.

All though my gut tells me you're right, ORO, I haven't seen any data to suggest there is a consensus as to whether or not previously infected patients develop a strong immunity. Perhaps it's out there and I missed it. This is something I've been curious about.

Certainly if that were the case, then perhaps you're right. Even then though, I've read cases of severe and permanent respiratory damage. That's a hard pill to swallow just to develop future immunity. Is there a way of screening to know whether you're at higher risk for this kind of long term respiratory damage or is it luck of the draw? I'm certainly not a Dr. nor am I well informed on this front, so I haven't developed a strong opinion either direction.

I can understand the mindset behind 'flattening the curve'. To me that sounds like, "you're all probably still going to get sick, just not all at once."  This could potentially lessen the number of deaths as presumably medical staff wont be as overwhelmed and their will be enough quality healthcare to go around. In that sense I can understand where this lockdown is effective and I can also see how the date to relax the lockdown would reflect this infection rate and the previously mentioned potential immunity of those that have recovered from infection already.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

13 hours ago, REAL Green said:

It has a lot to do with the idiotic Trump derangement.  I used to think Obama derangement was bad until the liberals took it to a new level.   The cabal of deranged masses can't get a grip on the fact the system was just set and ready to blow down to a new level of economic activity so who is blind.  What part of deep depression or recession do you not understand?  This means inflated money and lower availability of goods combined.  That equals a hair cut for all.  All that digital wealth of the rich just evaporated like a popcorn fart.  The poor who used to be able to at least by Chinese junk at Dollar General will be lucky to find it at swap shops.  This is bad shit and anyone thinking this will blow over is in the land of la la.

Although I am a Trump supporter, it is good to once in a while remember how the Repubs treated the Obama administration from day one and throughout his presidency.  I said it back then: they're going to pay for this when the next Republican president takes office.  And surprise of surprises: they are.  What the Republican Party did back then was embarrassing, and to more than a small degree racist, and not positive for the people or the country.  The reason I say that is because they did not wait to see what Obama did before they announced to the world that they would block any and all things Obama.  Didn't even give the guy a chance, and then we cry when the Dems oppose everything President Trump does, says or even fights for or against.

Just worth the reminder, for perspective.  Trump 2020!

[0R0 + 6,251]

Just now, PE Scott said:

All though my gut tells me you're right, ORO, I haven't seen any data to suggest there is a consensus as to whether or not previously infected patients develop a strong immunity. Perhaps it's out there and I missed it. This is something I've been curious about.

Certainly if that were the case, then perhaps you're right. Even then though, I've read cases of severe and permanent respiratory damage. That's a hard pill to swallow just to develop future immunity. Is there a way of screening to know whether you're at higher risk for this kind of long term respiratory damage or is it luck of the draw? I'm certainly not a Dr. nor am I well informed on this front, so I haven't developed a strong opinion either direction.

I can understand the mindset behind 'flattening the curve'. To me that sounds like, "you're all probably still going to get sick, just not all at once."  This could potentially lessen the number of deaths as presumably medical staff wont be as overwhelmed and their will be enough quality healthcare to go around. In that sense I can understand where this lockdown is effective and I can also see how the date to relax the lockdown would reflect this infection rate and the previously mentioned potential immunity of those that have recovered from infection already.

Well, the quarantine does not just flatten the curve. It makes sure that a large proportion of us never get exposed in this round, so we are ready to be the petri dish for the next one, and there must be a next one. It is something we need to think through to optimize. First children and their still young parents need to get the disease. The damage they get is mild and not common. Let us oldsters stay at home for 4 weeks after the kids get to infect each other at kissing school and toss it over to their parents. Then we have the bulk of the population with immunity so the rest of us can rejoin society. 

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

To continue, 

The parameters for risk were well known BEFORE the outbreak, but we made no effort to draw a line to say quarantine this risk group and let everyone with less than a 1% chance of long term damage or death go on with their lives, send kids to school, parents get a mild version of the disease and nobody can see granny for a few months. 

The Chinese lockdown was effective in forcing China to continue to quarantine itself, because outside of Wuhan and part of Guangdong, the rest of the country has no immunity. So perhaps 15 million immune, everyone else is still in danger. How was that a solution?

Yet, because the paranoid CCP did it, we went on to copy their inept thinking AFTER we let the virus spread throughout our big cities in the West without control. It was a clear demonstration of what not to do, yet we did it anyway. and we did it too late to have an effect. The Western response was double stupid. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

13 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

No, you were and are right to worry about this: it is the worst virus of our lifetimes. When it was in Wuhan only, I made the mistake of calling it the "Damaged Lung Virus" because it seemed to hit high pollution workers who smoked. Well, it hits lungs, period, and male lungs the worse, and older male lungs the hardest. Additionally, it is apparent now that when it replicates in the upper respiratory tract (the nasopharynx and trachea) it does so within cells that bulge, forming pouches containing thousands of viruses. The symptoms are mild. When those all wash down into the lower respiratory tract (the bronchi, bronchioles, alveoli) they burst like a balloon and flood the lungs with millions of viruses that often produce these cytokine storms. These are wild things for a virus to do. 

That is because it is a product of decades of work by someone. Since it is the Chinese CCP who had consistently stated they were going to hit the US with a bioweapon, I presume it was their handiwork that leaked out from the Wuhan Biosafety Lab. But the tiny nodules is something I suspect exists in other viral pneumonias, at least one doctor explained it to me a decade back to explain why he was reluctant to prescribe my 6th or 7th antibiotic course in that last year or so. But then proceeded to give it to me anyway because I had such a long history of bacterial bronchitis and pneumonias so even if I didn't have it yet, I surely would.