Why Trump Is Right to Re-Open the Economy

[wrs + 893]

37 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Probably Drug overdoses...

Definitely in the stupid subsection of the unitentional classification.  Getting run over by a car or killed by a drunk driver would fall in the truly unintentional and unexpected subsection.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Forgotten pandemics 

Our population was only about half what it is now.

 

Hong Kong Flu 1968

chrome-extension://klbibkeccnjlkjkiokjodocebajanakg/suspended.html#ttl=1968 flu pandemic - Wikipedia&pos=0&uri=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1968_flu_pandemic I lost a weeks work during this one.

https://www.google.com/search?q=hong+kong+flu+images&sxsrf=ALeKk02SzhZjbFM9cI3UFwEqcLcfU-Vs4w:1585267869089&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjtvdeBr7noAhXTVc0KHVE7AqAQ_AUoAnoECAsQBA&biw=1600&bih=789#imgrc=cYUtN_Qgm90yTM&imgdii=-WQWgBIENcDJIM

https://www.history.com/topics/middle-ages/pandemics-timeline

Edited March 27, 2020 by ronwagn
added reference

[wrs + 893]

5 hours ago, ronwagn said:

It is inevitable that, at this point, there is no way to contain the virus but it is important to slow the rise and isolate the aged and infirm to protect them. Slowing the epidemic is very important. Hospitals can become quickly overwhelmed, as we have seen. We are learning this lesson the hard way. We have ignored the need for investment in emergency medical care during epidemics and other catastrophes. We need large amounts of supplies and medicines around the country. We are now using our armed forces to help out. That is a good thing, but might not be possible in time of war (God forbid). Americans spend far too much on many stupid things. We need to  spend more on emergency medical care, shelter, and food supplies. 

Well for me, I am willing to self-isolate, I am 64 and my wife is 60.  I believe that it's worth it for me to cut down on my interactions because I am at higher risk. Unfortunately, a lot of people cannot afford to take the time off and it's killing their personal economy.  A lot of those people are lower risk and so I can understand how they would not want to limit themselves like I am willing to.  I am looking at it like the Korean model where older people stay home and isolate but I do think kids shouldn't be in school.  That would moot any attempt by a family that may have members in the high risk group living in their home to self-isolate.  Kids are spreaders for most viruses anway in my experience.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

5 hours ago, ronwagn said:

We will have to wait and see how America does at the end of the game. Right now we have far fewer cases (About a third) confirmed than all of Western Europe and Southern Europe combined. That population is roughly equal to ours. 

Germany and the Netherlands were apparently quick to treat and I totally agree that our FDA has been a stumbling block. Bayer has promised us tens of thousands of doses of hydroxychloroquine. Treatment is more important than testing and we are far too afraid to use medications for off label uses. The FDA makes sure of that. 

I'm quite sure Trump will make it a top priority that the US comes out looking as good as is possible given the situation, and will not allow the US to look bad in comparison to other countries especially China.

On that subject those Chinese figures are more and more looking like a total fabrication.

I still think we'll be getting back to business in around 3 weeks, it wont be over but possibly past the worse of it as the more advanced countries mobilise everything they got to show their superiority (never let a crisis go to waste) at rising to adversity with compation compared to countries like China who acted quickly but brutally.

On a personal note I really just want to go fishing but people here (simple but honest) are still expecting an apocalypes of death and destruction and have misinterpreted the guidelines on what constitutes as excercise. In their view you can go for a walk or bike ride but can't sit on the rocks for 2 hours with a rod lol...they're a funny bunch.

Some one initiated a mass show of support for our health workers etc and everyone clapped at their front doors at 8pm across the nation...I'm a cynical old git but thinking about it it's giving them more hope than any statistics and explanations I've tried to give them.  After this I don't want to say "I told you so" I'd just like to see everyone everywhere get back to normality. The media really scared the living hell out of most people here, I've never seen anything like it.

What a crazy start to 2020 it's been!

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 3/25/2020 at 1:19 PM, Enthalpic said:

Uh what?

"I've lost all my work now for the forseable future but strangely I feel very positive. I think this virus will pass as will the hysteria and once the medical services get the extra support they need"

Where will the medical support services get the extra help exactly?  Why are you so happy about being broke, dying, or both?

 

Probably because when he’s dead he won’t have to read your drivel...

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

5 hours ago, El Nikko said:

I'm quite sure Trump will make it a top priority that the US comes out looking as good as is possible given the situation, and will not allow the US to look bad in comparison to other countries especially China.

What? WHAT???

Your totally incompetent excuse of a president made New York healthcare staff face the waves of ill people dressed in garbage bags! He ignored their pleas, spreading lies and unscientific garbage, and people died because of that. And the douchebag of a governor of Texas had the nerve to urge the elderly people to ... die and stop slowing down the US economy? That's the most horrible and selfish thing anyone has ever said since Hitler shot himself trhough the head!

And you, as a proper hypocrite, are not worried what is going on or what will happen next, but "how will it look compared to China?"

My friend, compared to China, the USA already looks like the most backward country at the edge of the Flat-Earth!

Wake the f%#k up!!!

Edited March 27, 2020 by Yoshiro Kamamura

[Marcin2 + 725]

On 3/25/2020 at 4:55 AM, ronwagn said:

President Trump hopes to reopen the economy by Easter if possible. We now have treatments and plenty of equipment that can be used. We need to throw all our resources at the critically ill but most patients will recover on their own and without hospitalization. The aged need to stay home but the rest need to get back to work as soon as possible. Otherwise we will have more damage to our economy than it can take. One is as important as the other in keeping us all healthy physically, mentally, economically, and emotionally. 

Ron,

The problem is that not all deaths are equal.

On September 11, 2001 about 3,000 people died in terrorist attack and other 8,000 Americans died because they were old or ill.

But it was 9/11 that was and is all over the news for 2 decades.

The COVID19 is worse. There are different estimations but even if only 10,000-20,000 Americans would die ( very conservative assumption) , a lot of this deaths would be attributed  to Trump policies.

Trump is in precarious position, every decision is bad: recession or mass casualties. Neither wins presidency, even with weak Biden.

And Trump started real bad. Trump is about instant gratification and CoVID19 you need to play like chess. Now it is over, with „success ratio” of testing in US over 20% , the epidemic could be only eradicated by hard quarantine. It is impossible in democratic countries.

I watched with horror people in Warsaw openly ignoring safety measures, do stupid.

But stupidity of masses is the major civil liberty, we cannot do anything about it.

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

"I think they think we're doing a really good job in terms of running this whole situation having to do with the virus," [...] a lot of good things are happening." (Donald Trump)

The US now has more confirmed cases of coronavirus than any other country, with more than 85,500 positive tests. 

Just go on with your wonderful idea of packing the churches with people for Eastern and soon the US will also overpass Italy in the number of deaths.

 

 

 

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

8 minutes ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

"I think they think we're doing a really good job in terms of running this whole situation having to do with the virus," [...] a lot of good things are happening." (Donald Trump)

The US now has more confirmed cases of coronavirus than any other country, with more than 85,500 positive tests. 

Just go on with your wonderful idea of packing the churches with people for Eastern and soon the US will also overpass Italy in the number of deaths.

 

 

 

 

 

Economy of scale. What is the population of Italy? What is the population of the US?

What non-Americans can not seem to come to grips with is that each State Governor is the FIRST line of defense, they then escalate, as required, to the Federal level.

New York dropped the ball and got behind the virus curve and are now saying it is Trump’s fault. They also seem to think that it is required that ALL Federal assets should be deployed to New York! What about the other 49 States?

The politicians in New York are incompetent and are now trying to deflect any blame.

Good luck with that!

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

I know how it works...When things are going well it's painted as a president's success and when it's turning bad its State Governors fault.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 minutes ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

I know how it works...When things are going well it's painted as a president's success and when it's turning bad its State Governors fault.

You obviously DO NOT know how it works. I suggest that you spend some time studying the Katrina hurricane disaster and how the process worked, or didn’t work, in New Orleans.

I’m curious Guillaume, are you an American? Are you presently in the US? If not, why are you so enamored with our emergency response process? Shouldn’t you be more concerned with how YOUR country and how YOUR politicians are handling this issue?

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

14 hours ago, El Nikko said:

It was on the previous page on this thread, doesn't bother me. Both US and UK government have made their deccision on what they're going to do, it's helicopter money time over here, I never really agreed with things like that but at least they're going to try to put any printed money in the hands of workers and small to medium business's.

It's been a surreal few days. We can't go out anywhere other than for a walk or to buy food, no one is working and the country and economy is grinding to a halt. I've never in my life seen anything so crazy.

I have no idea if they will honour what they've said but they are telling the self employed they will give them up to £2,500 per month from June based on their average earnings over the last 3 years.

yes it truly is surreal.

it is not true by a long shot to say "no one is working", I am, and there are many many businesses still open and rightly so according to government guidelines. However the economic implications and rescue plans in place are truly frightening.

The cost is astronomical, many trillions of pounds this year alone. I feel sorry for those just starting their working life as they will be paying for this for the rest of their days!

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Going on in Florida now.  Imprisonment / fine / business closure for breaking social distancing rules.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

7 hours ago, El Nikko said:

I'm quite sure Trump will make it a top priority that the US comes out looking as good as is possible given the situation, and will not allow the US to look bad in comparison to other countries especially China.

On that subject those Chinese figures are more and more looking like a total fabrication.

I still think we'll be getting back to business in around 3 weeks, it wont be over but possibly past the worse of it as the more advanced countries mobilise everything they got to show their superiority (never let a crisis go to waste) at rising to adversity with compation compared to countries like China who acted quickly but brutally.

On a personal note I really just want to go fishing but people here (simple but honest) are still expecting an apocalypes of death and destruction and have misinterpreted the guidelines on what constitutes as excercise. In their view you can go for a walk or bike ride but can't sit on the rocks for 2 hours with a rod lol...they're a funny bunch.

Some one initiated a mass show of support for our health workers etc and everyone clapped at their front doors at 8pm across the nation...I'm a cynical old git but thinking about it it's giving them more hope than any statistics and explanations I've tried to give them.  After this I don't want to say "I told you so" I'd just like to see everyone everywhere get back to normality. The media really scared the living hell out of most people here, I've never seen anything like it.

What a crazy start to 2020 it's been!

Do you remember Brexit?

Dont see much of that in the news anymore lol

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

5 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

yes it truly is surreal.

it is not true by a long shot to say "no one is working", I am, and there are many many businesses still open and rightly so according to government guidelines. However the economic implications and rescue plans in place are truly frightening.

The cost is astronomical, many trillions of pounds this year alone. I feel sorry for those just starting their working life as they will be paying for this for the rest of their days!

 

 

At least you guys can get out for a walk! We can’t! If we are out on the street we had better be heading for food or medicine or you may get fined!

It is going to be another long 2+ weeks.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

5 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Do you remember Brexit?

Dont see much of that in the news anymore lol

I hope it is still on!

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

 

At least you guys can get out for a walk! We can’t! If we are out on the street we had better be heading for food or medicine or you may get fined!

It is going to be another long 2+ weeks.

yeah there is that, although fines are in place over here if you break the rules.

we have another 2 weeks left but I really think this will be 3 months in total in the UK

Have you fixed that damned telly yet Douglas?

[Marcin2 + 725]

Italy has 135 deaths per 1 million population

Spain 105

China 2.3

US 4.0

US would have the same ratio as Italy with 44,500 deaths and China with 189,000.

The sheer fact that China probably saved 180,000 of their people ( and daily toll in Italy 600 deaths 10 per 1 million people is equivalent of 14,000 deaths in China) suggests they probably did the right thing.

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 minute ago, Marcin2 said:

Italy has 135 deaths per 1 million population

Spain 105

China 2.3

US 4.0

US would have the same ratio as Italy with 44,500 deaths and China with 189,000.

The sheer fact that China probably saved 180,000 of their people ( and daily toll in Italy 600 deaths 10 per 1 million people is equivalent of 14,000 deaths in China) suggests they probably did the right thing.

 

Do you honestly believe their figures over the last 2 weeks?

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

4 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I hope it is still on!

Yeah it is 

Everyone over here is frankly sick of it, 3 years of people talking BS is enough for anyone! Although Yoshiro seems to be doing the same on this forum.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

5 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

yeah there is that, although fines are in place over here if you break the rules.

we have another 2 weeks left but I really think this will be 3 months in total in the UK

Have you fixed that damned telly yet Douglas?

No dammit! The LCD screen has split/cracked and no shop is open to repair this one or sell me another one!

That said, I’m at about 80% on the painting of my flat...😂

[Marcin2 + 725]

4 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

Do you honestly believe their figures over the last 2 weeks?

Chinese or US ?

Both are understated.

But the type of this crisis makes substantial data fraud in China difficult.

They relaxed most of quarantine measures, if they lied they would have another wave of massive cases starting to unravel just now.

You cannot hide 10,000 new cases even in dictatorship like China, and it would be already reality.

[Boat + 1,323]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Economy of scale. What is the population of Italy? What is the population of the US?

What non-Americans can not seem to come to grips with is that each State Governor is the FIRST line of defense, they then escalate, as required, to the Federal level.

New York dropped the ball and got behind the virus curve and are now saying it is Trump’s fault. They also seem to think that it is required that ALL Federal assets should be deployed to New York! What about the other 49 States?

The politicians in New York are incompetent and are now trying to deflect any blame.

Good luck with that!

That’s what you red Republicans claimed as Katrina was killing Americans. GW, Trump and the right are just poor managers. They deny and then quickly become overwhelmed. Same O’l song and dance.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

17 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

No dammit! The LCD screen has split/cracked and no shop is open to repair this one or sell me another one!

That said, I’m at about 80% on the painting of my flat...😂

At least you can watch your paint dry!🤣

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

Boris has now tested positive for Covid-19 as has the UK's Health Secretary Matt Hancock