What If ‘We’d Adopted A More Conventional Response To This Epidemic?’

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 hours ago, J.mo said:

Now that they are finally admitting this spreads airborne like its cousin SARS, because go figure that's what it is. SARS-CoV-2. 

What's Everyones thought on respirators. I have full face respirators for the lady and I. P100 cartridges. 

I Was in the hazmat field for 5 years out of school. Other than stopping short of supplied air and scba's the best option on cartridges seems to be a p100. 99.97% filtration of particles .3 micon and larger. However we all know this virus is much smaller in size. This makes me uneasy on the efficacy of filtration. However, I did find this publication. Different virus, I am unsure of size comparison. Maybe Gerry can chime in. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24011377/

We should all be dressed in full hazmat suits at all times!

[James Regan + 1,776]

Palm Sunday etc, I say let all those who want to worship in close confines, let them do so, it will be a good experiment. Explain the rules clearly.

• If you decide to enter its at your own risk
• The doors will be closed at the given time of sermon or whatever type of prayer.
• The doors will not be opened for another two weeks.
• Food will be provided.
• Any emergency will be dealt with such as heart attacks etc.
• Children will not be allowed entry at any point.
• Let the faithful put their health (not others) in the hands of their faith.

Sounds like a great idea to gather in the House of the lord at this time.

The Catholics get it, check the Pope out, what is is with these money machine churches/cults in the bible belt.....?

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

42 minutes ago, James Regan said:

Palm Sunday etc, I say let all those who want to worship in close confines, let them do so, it will be a good experiment. Explain the rules clearly.

• If you decide to enter its at your own risk
• The doors will be closed at the given time of sermon or whatever type of prayer.
• The doors will not be opened for another two weeks.
• Food will be provided.
• Any emergency will be dealt with such as heart attacks etc.
• Children will not be allowed entry at any point.
• Let the faithful put their health (not others) in the hands of their faith.

Sounds like a great idea to gather in the House of the lord at this time.

The Catholics get it, check the Pope out, what is is with these money machine churches/cults in the bible belt.....?

 

Ramadan coming soon...

[James Regan + 1,776]

27 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Ramadan coming soon...

The Haj is being discussed to be cancelled at present, Holy shit can you imagine.

[James Regan + 1,776]

Hello Satan Here - Im here to remind you that plagues and pandemics are another dept, down here we do orgies and metal bands.😂

[Hotone + 412]

4 hours ago, J.mo said:

Now that they are finally admitting this spreads airborne like its cousin SARS, because go figure that's what it is. SARS-CoV-2. 

What's Everyones thought on respirators. I have full face respirators for the lady and I. P100 cartridges. 

I Was in the hazmat field for 5 years out of school. Other than stopping short of supplied air and scba's the best option on cartridges seems to be a p100. 99.97% filtration of particles .3 micon and larger. However we all know this virus is much smaller in size. This makes me uneasy on the efficacy of filtration. However, I did find this publication. Different virus, I am unsure of size comparison. Maybe Gerry can chime in. 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24011377/

You do not necessarily need 99.97% filtration.  The following makes sense why youngsters who are fit and well can also succumb to covid-19 yet some older patients may get away with a mild flu like illness.  This was written by a doctor with the NHS who is currently treating seriously ill Coronavirus patients.

Viral load is the key to how coronavirus affects each person. This explanation is clear and helpful as to why as little social contact as possible is now crucial, gives a clue how to  manage it .... the Govt should have explained this at the outset. 

Why do we need to shut places where people group?

Remember this: VIRAL LOAD

There will be a lot about this. Why is it important?

With this virus, the amount of virus in your blood at first infection directly relates to the severity of the illness you will suffer. This isn’t unusual - HIV management is all about reducing viral load to keep people alive longer. BUT it’s very important in COVID-19.

So if you are in, say, a pub or religious building or entertainment venue with 200 people and a large number don’t have symptoms but are shedding, you are breathing in lots of droplets per minute and absorbing a high load of the virus. In a crowded space. They become ill over the next 48 hours. You then three days later wonder why you can’t breathe and end up in hospital. You’d decided because you were young and healthy it wasn’t going to be a problem. Wrong.

Fortunately but unfortunately because the elderly are isolating quite well, the initial UK data suggests that all age groups above 20 are almost equally represented in ICUs in England. Most of the cases are in London but the wave is moving outwards. 

This means that being under 60 and fit and well doesn’t seem to be as protective as we thought. Why? Viral load. 

This may be skewed simply by the fact that too many Londoners didn’t do as asked and congregated in large groups in confined spaces and got a large initial viral load. They then went home and infected their wider families. Which is why, as London is overwhelmed, we need to shut everything down to save the rest of the UK. We are a week at most behind London. 

Our sympathies go out to the families affected in London and the critical care teams battling right now to save as many as they can.

If I sit with one person and catch this virus, I get a small viral load. My immune system will start to fight it and by the time the virus starts replicating, I’m ready to kill it. 

No medicines will help this process meaningfully hence there is no “cure” for this virus. All we can do is support you with a ventilator and hope your immune system can catch up fast enough.

If I sit in the same room with six people, all shedding I get six times the initial dose. The rise in viral load is faster than my immune system can cope with and it is overrun. I then become critically ill and need me (or someone of my specialty) to fix it instead of just being at home and being ok in the end.

THIS BIT IS IMPORTANT:

If you are a large family group, remember that by being ill and in the same room, you will make each other ill or “more ill”. If you get sick, isolate just yourself to one room and stay there. Don’t all sit in one room coughing. You will increase the viral load for all of you, reducing your survival rate.

A family of six people may produce double the droplets of a family of three in the same space. Maths is important.

If one of you is symptomatic, assume you are all shedding and make sure you keep some space.

Parents are getting it from their kids because no one is going to stop comforting their child (nor should they) so the parent gets a big hit as well as the child. I don’t think that can be helped.

REMEMBER: THINK ABOUT VIRAL LOAD

It could save your life or your child’s.

Coventry and Warwickshire - it’s up to you now. We are preparing for the worst but we are hoping for the best from you. Please help us to help you. Stay home and take this seriously now before we need the army on the streets to remind you. Yes I’m serious.

#flattenthecurve

Edited April 5, 2020 by Hotone

[James Regan + 1,776]

19 minutes ago, Hotone said:

Maths is important

Face Maths are also very important - Obviouthly...

Sorry I'm one of those people, I'm becoming immune to CV19 information.

Your post is well, received, dont take offence at my humour please. YOUR MESSAGE IS VERY IMPORTANT

Dont know what your looking at El Nikko.......

[Hotone + 412]

2 hours ago, James Regan said:

Face Maths are also very important - Obviouthly...

Sorry I'm one of those people, I'm becoming immune to CV19 information.

Your post is well, received, dont take offence at my humour please. YOUR MESSAGE IS VERY IMPORTANT

Dont know what your looking at El Nikko.......

Thanks for pointing out what I wanted to say 😉

[specinho + 467]

On 4/3/2020 at 9:55 PM, John Foote said:

And fundamental test is still missing, a test for antibodies, personnel resistance. To get back to real normal, we need a vaccine and lacking that, a way to establish folks with resistance and deploy those folks to the front lines helping. 

Good ideas........

Not sure if this info is accurate but.................... Getting the antibodies might be difficult nor accurate. Here's why......... The virus is enveloped. It is enclosed by the same membrane cell of mankind. Without the ability to detect its "not-self" property, the latent period (without symptoms or the ability to be detected) would generally be quite long. Shall the virus presents itself in a significant numbers, symptoms of infection will start to show. The defense cells called to fight on fever, the site of infection, with lesion or no lesion (most probably with no lesion), or pain or sore throat,etc might not necessary be specific enough towards the virus. Hence, the antibody might not be  accurate enough as an indicator?

 

On 4/4/2020 at 1:20 AM, Boat said:

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/04/03/germany-has-a-low-coronavirus-mortality-rate-heres-why.html

Look at the 4th reason Germany is doing better so far. US ideology will not allow for this kind of planning. It’s all about profit, not preparation. But that ideology bit the US in the butt. You reap what you sow.

As a country of low birth rate, declining population graph and high stay at home retirees rate, the magic of spaces made available vs planning ahead for disaster might be just a coincidence, or no??

 

9 hours ago, J.mo said:

What's Everyones thought on respirators. .....................Other than stopping short of supplied air and scba's the best option on cartridges seems to be a p100. 99.97% filtration of particles .3 micon and larger. However we all know this virus is much smaller in size. This makes me uneasy on the efficacy of filtration.

 

[specinho + 467]

7 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

We should all be dressed in full hazmat suits at all times!

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

Just now, specinho said:

You are correct...the press has lost its mind.

[J.mo + 165]

8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

We should all be dressed in full hazmat suits at all times!

I am taking this very seriously. I'd rather get laughed at now and laugh about it later than have a possibly detrimental impact on myself and my other half's life. 

I'm 31 (as of last week 😡), i have no insurance and a small business. I can not afford to screw up. 

[Hotone + 412]

Please note that it is not only important to wear a mask, it is also important to wear it correctly.

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

The correct way to wear a mask, or two, or three...

 

[Hotone + 412]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

The correct way to wear a mask, or two, or three...

 

You've got it wrong.  She needs to cover her face, like this:

Edited April 6, 2020 by Hotone

[Piotr Berman + 82]

I guess that a "conventional approach" could be OK, but what convention should be used?  East Asians wear masks during every flu epidemic, and that seems to cut the transmission rate a lot.  You can rotate several masks, after 3-4 days they should be free of viable viruses, so Chinese population can make it with, say, 7 billion masks, Americans with a bit above 1 billion.  Then you need enough sanitizers, for hands and surfaces.  If you have a national system that manufacturers have some subsidy to have spare capacity ramp up productions within weeks for the epidemic-scale demands, then people can go around to their jobs, shops etc.  This is roughly what happened in Korea.

Medical personnel may need more comprehensive protection, but I guess it can be reusable to.

But you also need self-quarantine for travelers etc.  For medications, perhaps similar spare production capacity deals are needed.  

BTW, should we use gloves?  I have gloves for riding bicycle in cool weather and to line thick gloves in freezing weather.  But many touch screens require to use bare hands, so today I used liquid sanitizer (improvised by buying wound washing liquid) after visiting WalMart.  Needless to say, the spot on the screen where you press "payment" "credit/debit" is touched by someone else every few minutes.

The bottom line that during epidemic, be it COVID-19 or a normal seasonal epidemic, we should use masks and sanitize hands after every non-secure contact, plus some other sensible precautions.  And there should be huge support for doing it by securing material and propagating the needs, giving example etc.

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Or we could go ‘whole hog’ and simply wear full hazmat suits everytime someone sneezes or coughs.

Victim mentality again!