Trump will be holding back funds that were going to W.H.O. Good move

[Michael Jones + 34]

Ive worked and lived in china for too long in energy sectors.  What I'm more worried about is that China wont change the wet market situation like they didn't after SARS.  It would be equivalent to the USA closing down all the McDonalds.  It is part of their culture.  Once at a big dinner there was a fish served sashimi style.  All skinned.  Meat cut up.  On a bed of ice.  It had been around on the revolving table about half a dozen times until i thought i saw its gills move.  Thought id had too much moutai but no.  they leave just enough of its main nerve intact so it can breath but not so much so it wot flip around.

[PTakacs + 59]

Just now, Douglas Buckland said:

So are you trying to tell me that the Chinese acted in the best possible manner when this pandemic started or are you simply going to deflect to the situation in New York?

I am saying the Chinese (and the South Koreans and Japanese) have acted much more decisively than we did. No gov can ever act in the "best possible manner" -- I am not that naive. But quarantining 50M (almost an entire province)? That is far more than what we have done, and we have known that quarantine for more than two months. If we think the Chinese did not do enough, or acted too slowly, what does that say about us?  

[PTakacs + 59]

5 minutes ago, Michael Jones said:

Ive worked and lived in china for too long in energy sectors.  What I'm more worried about is that China wont change the wet market situation like they didn't after SARS.  It would be equivalent to the USA closing down all the McDonalds.  It is part of their culture.  Once at a big dinner there was a fish served sashimi style.  All skinned.  Meat cut up.  On a bed of ice.  It had been around on the revolving table about half a dozen times until i thought i saw its gills move.  Thought id had too much moutai but no.  they leave just enough of its main nerve intact so it can breath but not so much so it wot flip around.

This I agree. I have been traveling to China since the 80's. I personally have never had or even seen the monkey/bat stuff (have seen snakes though), but killing chicken/ducks/fish/pigs on the spot is a thing there, so that you know you are buying fresh. Most higher-end restaurants would have a fish tank in the middle of the hall where you can pick which fish you want to have killed and cooked. They want things really fresh, much more so than me wanting to eat a rare steak. They need to change that.

Edited April 9, 2020 by PTakacs

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

8 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

I am saying the Chinese (and the South Koreans and Japanese) have acted much more decisively than we did. No gov can ever act in the "best possible manner" -- I am not that naive. But quarantining 50M (almost an entire province)? That is far more than what we have done, and we have known that quarantine for more than two months. If we think the Chinese did not do enough, or acted too slowly, what does that say about us?  

Our system relies on the State governors, not the Head of State, as the first line of defense. If these governors have their heads up their asses or try to make political hay out of the situation (both issues were present) then their constituents are screwed. Eventually they ask for Federal intervention (they must ask for it), but by then it is too late.

Locking down New York City is much more complicated than locking down Wuhan considering the different political systems.

[PTakacs + 59]

8 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Our system relies on the State governors, not the Head of State, as the first line of defense. If these governors have their heads up their asses or try to make political hay out of the situation (both issues were present) then their constituents are screwed. Eventually they ask for Federal intervention (they must ask for it), but by then it is too late.

Locking down New York City is much more complicated than locking down Wuhan considering the different political systems.

This I agree completely. This is the price we pay for having our kind of system. 

One-party is authoritarian (no good). Two-party is bipolar, as the two have to artificially make their platforms widely different to get the votes. Three-party-or-more is better, but then the minorities will (have to) join force (standard game theory) so that only two parties will remain to have a final showdown. It's just math. I digress.

Edited April 9, 2020 by PTakacs

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

This is just Trump's way of ruling the country :  Mismanage a crisis until it turns into a chaotic mess then blame it on everyone else (the Dems, the Obama administration, the media, China, the WHO...).

The WHO has to deal with many diseases worldwide with a limited budget (2.5 billion in 2019, more or less the cost of two or three B2 bombers).  Compare it to the US CDC 2019 budget of 7.3 billion.

 

The WHO declared Covid-19 a public health emergency on 30 January, nearly a month before Trump tweeted: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA”, and proclaimed: “One day – it’s like a miracle - it will disappear.” He eventually declared a national emergency on 13 March.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/07/trump-coronavirus-who-funding-deaths-briefing

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

5 hours ago, PTakacs said:

I am saying the Chinese (and the South Koreans and Japanese) have acted much more decisively than we did. No gov can ever act in the "best possible manner" -- I am not that naive. But quarantining 50M (almost an entire province)? That is far more than what we have done, and we have known that quarantine for more than two months. If we think the Chinese did not do enough, or acted too slowly, what does that say about us?  

What is omitted in the above is that CCP actively hid the virus in the beginning, the WHO incorrectly stated the general means of transmission, the WHO criticized Trump for instituting a travel ban from China (which California promptly ignored).  CCP refused all outside assistance, arrested / disappeared Chinese doctors and journalists who tried to warn others about this new virus.

It was a fustercluck, with the WHO and CCP working hand in glove to obfuscate what was happening, and the WHO lavishing unfounded praise on CCP leadership.

Meantime, the U.N. wants to implement a 10% global tax (cash grab slush fund) for the war on virus.

[PTakacs + 59]

3 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

What is omitted in the above is that CCP actively hid the virus in the beginning, the WHO incorrectly stated the general means of transmission, the WHO criticized Trump for instituting a travel ban from China (which California promptly ignored).  CCP refused all outside assistance, arrested / disappeared Chinese doctors and journalists who tried to warn others about this new virus.

It was a fustercluck, with the WHO and CCP working hand in glove to obfuscate what was happening, and the WHO lavishing unfounded praise on CCP leadership.

Meantime, the U.N. wants to implement a 10% global tax (cash grab slush fund) for the war on virus.

Are you suggesting that you would take the WHO or CCP's WORDS over their ACTION of quarantining 50M more than two months ago? That was my point. I really don't care what the WHO or CCP said, but I care what the Chinese DID -- there was no hiding in publicly locking down 50M.

Again, playing the blame game on who said what at what time is not doing anyone any good, when what they did, the quarantine, has been in front of our eyes for more than two months. I would blame them if they were acting, sorry to say it, like us, i.e., having zero lockdowns. I mean, New Yorkers are literally spreading the disease to other states and other countries as we speak!

I agree on the UN point. These are all useless organizations that these days don't do us much good anymore (in the olden days they may help us in swaying international opinions and/or justifying wars, like what we did before the Korean War). 

Edited April 9, 2020 by PTakacs

[JoMack + 549]

Forget Trump, the leaders of the W.H.O. need to go to The Hague, do not pass go, do not collect $443 plus million dollars, and bring Xi along with them!  Now the U.N. puts China on the Human Rights Council?  Is this a joke?  Nope, along with Venezuela voted into the HRC 2 months ago- what a group of corrupt, despicable people that circle the U.S. with lies, deceptions, anti-American crap that spews from their lips every day, and we pay for this nonsense?  

Hopefully Trump is re-elected (please lord) and the W.H.O., the U.N. will be defunded, the U.N. will be thrown out of NYC (and demand payment for all the parking tickets and other violations from the so-called diplomats) and all the alphabet soup of organizations that hate us will go and find another dog to live off of since this country is closed to these parasites!  

Then send a thank you note to China for shutting our economy down and murdering millions of people with their wet markets and hiding data and decouple permanently.  I mean, could we ask for a worse trading partner?  

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

"The World Health Organization is in the pocket of China.  Specifically Dr. Tedros.  He was a cabinet minister in Ethiopia when China was investing deeply there and bribing gov't officials.  He has a well known and well deserved representation for corruption."  - Senator Tom Cotton

From this video today April 9, 2020.

 

[John Foote + 1,135]

19 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Our system relies on the State governors, not the Head of State, as the first line of defense. If these governors have their heads up their asses or try to make political hay out of the situation (both issues were present) then their constituents are screwed. Eventually they ask for Federal intervention (they must ask for it), but by then it is too late.

Locking down New York City is much more complicated than locking down Wuhan considering the different political systems.

In the USA we have completely open borders between states/cities/etc. Maybe you get asked about fruits and vegetables driving into California, but that's really the extent. And in this setup it takes Federal policy. 

I still don't know our strategy, I don't think there really is one. Testing is still an on-exception activity. Tracking folks is done by companies protecting their people, but as far as I can tell, nothing systemically.

I fear a police state more than COVID-19, but that's me. Banning Chinese on flights from China was woefully inadequate. Instead of non-stop, they still flew thru Tokyo or whatever. Once it escaped China, and it had in force by the beginning on February, we need to make everyone coming in the country quarantine. Blaming China is only useful if we remain extremely reticent to work with them in the future. Blaming them is useless in dealing with the current situation, just preventing the next one.

I still haven't a clue what the plan is. Social distancing is just a method to slow the spread. But as we get back together unless a hell of a lot of us have immunities we just revisit the problem, while gradually running our medical professionals into the ground.

To me our national strategy is more like Russia fighting European invasions. Retreat, give ground, make statements, accept casualties, knowing we will bounce back. The last thing Stalin had to learn to beat back Hitler was to listen to his officers who were critical of him. Treatments, and hopefully vaccines will emerge, but how long and when.

[Ron Ron + 18]

Has anyone here reviewed the press briefing from the WHO since the start of the outbreak?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, John Foote said:

In the USA we have completely open borders between states/cities/etc. Maybe you get asked about fruits and vegetables driving into California, but that's really the extent. And in this setup it takes Federal policy. 

I still don't know our strategy, I don't think there really is one. Testing is still an on-exception activity. Tracking folks is done by companies protecting their people, but as far as I can tell, nothing systemically.

I fear a police state more than COVID-19, but that's me. Banning Chinese on flights from China was woefully inadequate. Instead of non-stop, they still flew thru Tokyo or whatever. Once it escaped China, and it had in force by the beginning on February, we need to make everyone coming in the country quarantine. Blaming China is only useful if we remain extremely reticent to work with them in the future. Blaming them is useless in dealing with the current situation, just preventing the next one.

I still haven't a clue what the plan is. Social distancing is just a method to slow the spread. But as we get back together unless a hell of a lot of us have immunities we just revisit the problem, while gradually running our medical professionals into the ground.

To me our national strategy is more like Russia fighting European invasions. Retreat, give ground, make statements, accept casualties, knowing we will bounce back. The last thing Stalin had to learn to beat back Hitler was to listen to his officers who were critical of him. Treatments, and hopefully vaccines will emerge, but how long and when.

So what would YOU suggest?

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, Ron Ron said:

Has anyone here reviewed the press briefing from the WHO since the start of the outbreak?

Which one? There have been hundreds!

[BenFranklin'sSpectacles + 762]

On 4/8/2020 at 10:25 AM, Geoff Guenther said:

The problem with shutting down WHO or ANY international aid during a crisis like this is the bounceback effect. We've now decided to reduce the number of dead in America, Europe, ME and much of Asia by introducing social distancing. Many African, South Asian and Latin American countries don't have that luxury so the virus will summer there.

Remember the 1918 pandemic? The one @BLA noted came back to haunt us the following November? That's exactly what will happen if we don't deal with this problem as an international problem. You can't declare victory in your flooded cottage just because the tide's gone out.

Is there any evidence that the WHO serves a useful function during pandemics?  Is there any evidence that it can serve that function better than individual nations have? 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

[PTakacs + 59]

7 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

The funny part is that Taiwan complained about not being a member of the WHO and is still driving a campaign to become a member, yet it is smart enough to know when to act -- after seeing China's quarantine on 1/23, it started its own quarantines and testing.  Taiwan knows how to separate politics from reality.

Result: despite the fact that Taiwan is only miles away from China, and millions in fact returned to Taiwan from China in Dec. and Jan., so far they only had 382 cases with 6 deaths. Let me further remind you that Taipei has a higher population density than NYC, with many less sanitary older buildings/districts. In late January we were in a much better position to deal with the virus than Taiwan.

If our solution/conclusion is to bark at the WHO, we are barking at the wrong tree.

Edited April 10, 2020 by PTakacs

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

22 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

The funny part is that Taiwan complained about not being a member of the WHO and is still driving a campaign to become a member, yet it is smart enough to know when to act -- after seeing China's quarantine on 1/23, it started its own quarantines and testing.  Taiwan knows how to separate politics from reality.

Result: despite the fact that Taiwan is only miles away from China, and millions in fact returned to Taiwan from China in Dec. and Jan., so far they only had 382 cases with 6 deaths. Let me further remind you that Taipei has a higher population density than NYC, with many less sanitary older buildings/districts. In late January we were in a much better position to deal with the virus than Taiwan.

If our solution/conclusion is to bark at the WHO, we are barking at the wrong tree.

For some reason I get the sense that the WHO Is no longer part of the equation. 

[Marcin2 + 725]

On 4/9/2020 at 4:11 PM, PTakacs said:

Are you suggesting that you would take the WHO or CCP's WORDS over their ACTION of quarantining 50M more than two months ago? That was my point. I really don't care what the WHO or CCP said, but I care what the Chinese DID -- there was no hiding in publicly locking down 50M.

You nailed it.

China effectively put under house arrest 50 million people - first such event in human history.

This should be repeated to every American each and every day, for your own good and your country.

Yet somehow Trump and his administration of yes men have not reacted correctly.

My perspective of the citizen of small European country: it is really frightening, you are providing security to us under NATO.

Is current blame and hate campaign enough to brainwash people towards for re-election.

Do we need hot war as a diversion ? South China Sea or Iran or Venezuela ?

[playerone2018 + 4]

On 4/9/2020 at 5:50 PM, Guillaume Albasini said:

This is just Trump's way of ruling the country :  Mismanage a crisis until it turns into a chaotic mess then blame it on everyone else (the Dems, the Obama administration, the media, China, the WHO...).

The WHO has to deal with many diseases worldwide with a limited budget (2.5 billion in 2019, more or less the cost of two or three B2 bombers).  Compare it to the US CDC 2019 budget of 7.3 billion.

 

The WHO declared Covid-19 a public health emergency on 30 January, nearly a month before Trump tweeted: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA”, and proclaimed: “One day – it’s like a miracle - it will disappear.” He eventually declared a national emergency on 13 March.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/apr/07/trump-coronavirus-who-funding-deaths-briefing

 

Interesting that all of the people blaming WHO here just omits this post that actually provides valid proof - WHO declaration of public health emergency on Jan 30!   Why Trump didn't react after that?   Basically people just believe what they want to believe here, not looking at any valid evidence or proof that proves otherwise.    What would have happened if Trump took it serious earlier?    BTW, doesn't it already say enough when the Chinese locked down most of the country since Jan 23?  That was two months of time that Trump can actualy DO something.

[playerone2018 + 4]

On 4/10/2020 at 8:31 AM, Ron Ron said:

Has anyone here reviewed the press briefing from the WHO since the start of the outbreak?

Good question.  Apparently NO, since doing so would suggest many accusations of WHO doing nothing are invalid.  Blaming others is always easier than admitting a mistake, in this case, misjudging the seriousness of the virus.   

[playerone2018 + 4]

Let's run a fact check here.  Guess who tweeted: “The Coronavirus is very much under control in the USA,” in late February?  

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/trump-coronavirus-response-squandered-time/2020/03/07/5c47d3d0-5fcb-11ea-9055-5fa12981bbbf_story.html

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 4/11/2020 at 5:35 AM, Marcin2 said:

You nailed it.

China effectively put under house arrest 50 million people - first such event in human history.

This should be repeated to every American each and every day, for your own good and your country.

Yet somehow Trump and his administration of yes men have not reacted correctly.

My perspective of the citizen of small European country: it is really frightening, you are providing security to us under NATO.

Is current blame and hate campaign enough to brainwash people towards for re-election.

Do we need hot war as a diversion ? South China Sea or Iran or Venezuela ?

Of course they locked down 50 million people AFTER 5 million had left the area AND the world was about to find out that China infected them.

Did China ever lockdown international travel once they knew they had a problem? If so, when.

[playerone2018 + 4]

7 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Of course they locked down 50 million people AFTER 5 million had left the area AND the world was about to find out that China infected them.

Did China ever lockdown international travel once they knew they had a problem? If so, when.

When?  Here you go:

On 23 January, transport in Wuhan, Huanggang and Ezhou severely restricted, including closure of public transit, trains, AIRPORTS, and major highways.  24 January, travel restrictions enacted in 12 additional prefecture-level cities in Hubei.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Hubei_lockdowns

Locking down airports = locking down international travel.  So this should answer when.

And let's see what the media initially reported on the lockdown: https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2020/01/china-quarantine-coronavirus/605455/

And what some legal experts said: " A massive imposition like China’s would be unconstitutional, according to James Hodge, a health-law professor at Arizona State, who noted the likelihood of human-rights violation in such a scenario. Another skeptic, the Georgetown University legal scholar Alexandra Phelan, likened China’s response to a “sledgehammer.”

If it were not serious in the western world by now, I bet these people would still argue that locking down international travel violates "human rights"...etc.   But, the same people would now blame China for NOT imposing the lockdown earlier.   Good Job!

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

The fact is, they closed the barn doors AFTER the horses got out.