China declared war on the US in May 2019. Covid19 is part of that war

[0R0 + 6,251]

6 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

@0R0Again you used thesis that world trade is reliant on US Navy.

The only scenario I see it works is that US Navy becomes pirates like Germany during WW2 and starts sinking merchant marine: but in that case we have 60 minutes of nuclear war and everything gets to business as usual After another 25 years.

This is the only scenario were world is „dependent” on US Navy.

Tell me which state actor would go against merchant navy: NONE that counts.

Non state actors do not even have  Guided Missile corvettes or frigates, how they can disrupt global trade ?

So I am still to hear the first argument to back this thesis.

You are presuming that everyone will just go on as usual when opportunities for imperial operations stare them in the face. History is entirely outside that path. State actors would definitely do as I describe since that is precisely what their history looked like. Whitehall didn't build their two supercarrier groups out of nowhere AFTER the Soviets fell. They read the lay of the ground, knew what happens on that kind of battlefield. and acted appropriately. Germany, on the other hand found it most advantageous to put all its submarines in dry dock. (but for one) And went to talk to Putin.

Poland has not had an imperial history. Read the Imperial histories of the Brits, French and all the wannabees that tried to follow their path before it all blew up in WWI, and again in WWII. Pay attention to the strategies employed and the motives for them. 

All of the navies will do their bit. It is just a matter of who acts first. 

I am not really expecting non-state actors to work on their own. They will get their equipment and home port support and will simply be there as a buffer to maintain plausible deniability of state piracy. 

I would be surprised if the United Nations show has more than 100 members by 2050. 

I doubt the US will stir things up. It is still interested in expanding its trade for defense partnership. Being the instigator is less than the most attractive advertisement. 

When the world gets together to figure out what to do about the US, it is all about acting to control it and subjugate it to the institutions of the world order that it created, thinking that is their only path. Nobody thinks to rework the deal to keep the US running it for its own benefit rather than theirs. 

[M_Ali + 32]

53 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I'm not American, Repuplican or a Trump supporter but I do dislike to my core everything the CCP administration stands for. Human rights, animal rights, pollution, 1984 type of control over its people etc.etc. where is freedom of speech? where is freedom full stop??? Where can Chinese people hold anti CCP rallies and question what the CCP's policies are without fear of jail time or worse?

I have absolutely nothing against the Chinese people and have many I would call as friends in Shanghai and Ningbo, but the CCP stinks!

You just proudly acknowledged your John Wayneian political philosophy on CCP that I highlighted in my comment above, your conformance is duly noted!!! the fact that you have no American passport is irrelevant to the point I was making. You might have heard the English proverb of Courtiers being more monarchical than the Monarch. 

However, you references to CCP's poor records on human rights, lack of freedom of speech, expression, and press, political suppression and prisoners are generally known even the Chinese authorities would confess that they don't run a Swedish style liberal democracy.

But it also clearly demonstrates your poor knowledge of American History and its perpetual wars of Empire building particularly since WWII toppling or coercing legitimate national governments around the world not conforming with US global or regional hegemonic policies, invading, bombing, destroying countless countries; killing, dispossessing, displacing, maiming millions of people around the world with its advanced MIC tools of trade,....all in the name of protecting the national interest, security and the freedom of the American Empire. So CCP's historical record in comparison looks really clean and civilized indeed, unless you call "one road one belt" project an act of global Chinese aggression and invasion not so nice as the WOT Project drawn by the Newcons fraternity!!

FYI, US has the highest number of "social" prisoners per Capita in the world. Only a naive person or a child may not know the interrelationship between social and political issues in a highly complex class based modern society. 

Those poor souls whose unclaimed bodies are being piled in a mass grave in the Borough of the Dead are victims of a highly corrupt socioeconomic and political system run by WS Banksters  NOT victims of "Wuhan Virus".

Evidently your mind is only open to preferred preconceptions and complies with what comforts it. 

 

 

[Marcin2 + 726]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

You are presuming that everyone will just go on as usual when opportunities for imperial operations stare them in the face. History is entirely outside that path. State actors would definitely do as I describe since that is precisely what their history looked like. Whitehall didn't build their two supercarrier groups out of nowhere AFTER the Soviets fell. They read the lay of the ground, knew what happens on that kind of battlefield. and acted appropriately. Germany, on the other hand found it most advantageous to put all its submarines in dry dock. (but for one) And went to talk to Putin.

Poland has not had an imperial history. Read the Imperial histories of the Brits, French and all the wannabees that tried to follow their path before it all blew up in WWI, and again in WWII. Pay attention to the strategies employed and the motives for them. 

All of the navies will do their bit. It is just a matter of who acts first. 

I am not really expecting non-state actors to work on their own. They will get their equipment and home port support and will simply be there as a buffer to maintain plausible deniability of state piracy. 

I would be surprised if the United Nations show has more than 100 members by 2050. 

I doubt the US will stir things up. It is still interested in expanding its trade for defense partnership. Being the instigator is less than the most attractive advertisement. 

When the world gets together to figure out what to do about the US, it is all about acting to control it and subjugate it to the institutions of the world order that it created, thinking that is their only path. Nobody thinks to rework the deal to keep the US running it for its own benefit rather than theirs. 

So what you are trying to say is that once US Navy leaves Pacific the hell would break loose!

So first Japan, China, South Korea, the largest trading partners of one another, instead of happily trading in electronic, fish and cars and having millions of personal contacts with each other would suddenly start the naval war.

500 major naval combatants of the upper mentioned countries would leave their ports and start fighting and because China has also nuclear weapons it would end as nuclear winter.

Or maybe they would wait 10 more days until another 200 major naval combatants of European countries would arrive and only then start the games.

No 0R0 East Asia and Europe would be business as usual.

I mean I am not British, but could ask @Rob Plant, would Royal Navy and Britain engage in naval and later nuclear war in Pacific cause US would be out in its hemispehre and not policing you  ?

[0R0 + 6,251]

4 hours ago, M_Ali said:

What a load of Xenophobic and anti Chinese propaganda under the disguise of pseudo-investigative Journalism?

Dr Sean Lin, the Chinese guy (probably a defector) a former lab director at Walter Reed Biological Weapons lab (US largest such facility) makes for a very credible, objective unbiased expert views!!!!

Chinese American Columnist: "The CCP is the Virus that needs to be eradicated" makes it clear he is not a big fan of Mao or Xi.

The American General a military graduate of the school of General Custard not so fund of foreign savages articulating his Julies Cesar's view of a dwindling Roman Empire.

The Texan Attorney filing for a $20 Trillion law suit against CCP.......laughable indeed in the face of US national Debt of over $23 Trillion, a large chunk of which is owed to CCP; no doubt the minds and spirits of Adam Smith, Carl Marx & Chairman Mao are totally in disarray and the spirits of Founding Fathers are wondering what the fuck went wrong?

I'd tell them FedRes, Money Printing, Treasury bonds & Debt Manufacturing went wrong. 

This investigative report is nearly 70 years old; the ideological mantra it tries to portray is an old anti communist propaganda cliche dating back to post WWII McCarthysim, portrayed on large movie screens across America for mass consumption while viewers stuffing their faces with popcorn. No one played and portrayed this role better and more effectively than the good old Cowboy Duke himself in his Hollywood war movies out in the East fighting the evil communists, so much so that his die hard fanatic fans even lobbied congress to give him medal of honor for his heroic roles in the propaganda war efforts (Only in America);

"I got nothing against Chinese people, it's the Communist Party of China that I hate."

Same message is coming load and clear from the above journalistic montage of avalanches of world media news, views and data about the current global pandemic to reconfirm an old ideological dogma close to Uncle Sam's heart and mind. 

Finishing the montage with self-assuring and romantic panoramic and close up views of mammoth symbolic carved rocks and columns of cultural triumphalism, in the Capital of the Empire reassuring its audience Uncle Sam will contain and prevail over all contagions biological and political. 

There appears recently a lot of all American patriotic Anti CCP sentiments, hot air and BuLlshit analysis by Trumpian Apprentice wane be against China's supposed covering up of the "Wuhan Virus" outbreak?  

I suggest these guys search for the following issues in relation to one another to get an opposing "Conspiracy Theory" about the origin of the virus.

Event 201, A response practice on a potential global Virus Outbreak Scenario, held curtsy of B&L Gates Foundation, UN, WB & big Pharma  on 18 October 2019 in NY

World 7th Army Game held in Wuhan on 18 October 2019, US a sports superpower gaining 0 Gold Medal finishing behind Namibia and Tunisia!!!!! Were they real athletes or they were on a different mission in Wuhan touring the city & the wet market too?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Military_World_Games

Fort Derick, The US Militarily Biological Weapons Lab shutdown due to multiple serious safety protocol volition in 2019.

Dr Redfield, head of  CDC admitting to mistaking Coronavirus cases for Flu virus early in the flu season in the US during a congressional hearing. 

Five Strains of the CV found in US only one found in China!

I remain skeptical until further clarification not judgmental, I'm not a CCP affiliate member nor a supporter.

I love Plato, but I love the Truth more - Aristotle

There are 103 strains reported as of early March, most from Wuhan. Different genomes. 

Your criticism is a simple siding with the CCP, claiming its propaganda points as facts.  

You have sub 0 credibility. 

[TooSteep + 142]

The radiation in Chernobyl didn't come from the reactor. It came from the fish market down the street ...

Sadly, the creator of this image, 变态辣椒RebelPepper on Twitter, was arrested by the Hong Kong police 

Edited April 17, 2020 by TooSteep

[M_Ali + 32]

15 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Your criticism is a simple siding with the CCP, claiming its propaganda points as facts.  

You have sub 0 credibility. 

I'm NOT propagating CCP's narrative of the truth about the origin of Coronavirus. I put forward their version of Coronavirus Conspiracy Theory against the ARP's Conspiracy Theory. I'm merely skeptical, and question the merits of reasons and related evidence presented for and against in the media war of these two global rivals in the grip of a global pandemic, trade and economic war.

Don't flatter your self I am not taking an exam on the credibility of my political views by "Armature Analysts" informed by Fox News.  

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

11 minutes ago, M_Ali said:

Don't flatter your self I am not taking an exam on the credibility of my political views by "Armature Analysts" informed by Fox News.  

Fox news is mostly "controlled opposition", provided as a "choice" by the MSM conglomerates.

Yes, I know this infographic is a bit dated, and I don't care.  It's pretty easy to view and comprehend.

I can provide more details about MSM controlling and telling you what to think (including Fox) if you wish, bit I am quite certain you would not like it.

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

14 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

So first Japan, China, South Korea, the largest trading partners of one another, instead of happily trading in electronic, fish and cars and having millions of personal contacts with each other would suddenly start the naval war.

 

They would not be fighting China. They would be making "offers you couldn't refuse" to common suppliers and markets. China would not be in a position to do anything about it. If it does, it will simply be down one jump carrier. Neither Korea nor Japan will remain substantial trading partners of China. They were in process of reducing dependence. Samsung has already pulled out of China and was duplicating key components that were previously sole sourced from China. Kia, Daewoo, Hyundai etc. will do similarly. That was on the agenda before, now it is up front of the agenda. 

The three most successful naval empires to follow this model were Britain, Japan, France.. At their height they carved out China's ports and then Japan took over the bulk of the country and its economy.

I think you have a recency bias blocking your view of what things look like without the US protection of China's trade, or anyone's trade other than the few countries that have signed up for the deal - UK Korea Japan Australia and trying to recruit India and tentative about ASEAN.

It should be pointed out that at best, China's neighboring old "tiger" economies are at best frenemies, in reality they are bitter competitors that lost market share for decades running. They would turn on China at the first opportunity to regain market share from it.

It would be a misunderstanding to take the imperial relationships as constant war. It isn't as if Queen Elizabeth were going to have her heir be shunned in the courts of Europe because her exchequer was filled up with pirate loot off the Spanish merchant marine. They continued with the personal exchanges. War was business as usual. Like you today, who grew up in a pax Americana, Americans could never make heads or tails of this circumstance. That is why they offered up at first the league of nations and then the UN and its associated Bretton Woods trade institutions. It will take a while for everyone to dust off their imperial history books and figure it out. But  we have been here before. We are just removing the footprint of the US' loss making global security apparatus that had held all those empires at bay, forcing the French and English to give up their colonies and protectorates, To let subsidiary countries nationalize their properties without retaliation (Suez 1956 for example). 

Again, you are mirroring China's CCP leadership's paranoid  delusion that everything is about them. China is not a deliberate target, at least not till recently and doubly so just now, it is simply, along with Germany, one of the two most trade dependent economies with no means to secure their trade routes without paying the US for it. Neither of them are willing to cough up the concessions to the US. So they were on their own. Now China is on its own and has made itself a target too. It is not about blockading China, it is about everyone who can carving up their trade networks of subsidiary countries supplying making and consuming products of the imperial center's commercial machine. If all the major market groups on the supply and the demand side are carved up among a half dozen or fewer empires, then China is back where it was before WWII with no economies of scale. No deep water navy, and no share in the profits of its own trade. .

China and Germany are not alone and not going to be the worst hit. Subsaharan Arabian and S Asian arid countries are not food self sufficient and will see this kind of world marching their sovereignty straight into the hands of the empires that control the food that can feed them and the markets they can sell into so they can buy the food. That is not China.

The US will protect its deal mates. Those countries will use their might to rebuild empires out of the rest of the world. Including the belt and road ports and the countries hosting them. If Chinese interests hold things up, they will be nationalized. The CV19 outbreak will cover a whole lot of that with a thick political cover. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

14 minutes ago, M_Ali said:

I'm NOT propagating CCP's narrative of the truth about the origin of Coronavirus. I put forward their version of Coronavirus Conspiracy Theory against the ARP's Conspiracy Theory. I'm merely skeptical, and question the merits of reasons and related evidence presented for and against in the media war of these two global rivals in the grip of a global pandemic, trade and economic war.

Don't flatter your self I am not taking an exam on the credibility of my political views by "Armature Analysts" informed by Fox News.  

As one who watches no CNN FOX or MSNBC to be informed, I came up with the same "conspiracy theory" as it was put together piecemeal over months including reading some of the publications of research done at Wuhan's Biosecurity lab. The entire CIA theory is what we found. The actual stuff in the Wet Market in Wuhan was not the exotic animals presented in the media, but just plain ducks porkers sheep, endless chickens, some cattle, and gobs and gobs of fish and seafood. It is too urban and industrialized a market for that kind of frontier menagerie. Turns out that bat soup was not sold there at all. So my own pet theory of some haz-waste custodial worker selling off virus laden bats for soup at the market appears to be off. Back to an accidental infection by one of the lab people who were recklessly operating the experiments published just as the Wuhan coronavirus breakout started. 

 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

2 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Back to an accidental infection by one of the lab people who were recklessly operating the experiments published just as the Wuhan coronavirus breakout started. 

Statistically, this is the best option. Many years ago in the lab, a professor kept saying, it's not you people I'm worried about, it's the person who disposes of the laboratory animals.

[TooSteep + 142]

2 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Back to an accidental infection by one of the lab people who were recklessly operating the experiments published just as the Wuhan coronavirus breakout started. 

 

Yes. This. Occam's razor.

 

Hey 0R0 - I really enjoy reading your posts. But ... I have to admit, I felt just like Marcin2 when I first read Peter Zeihan, with his emphasis on the US Navy being the foundation of world trade. The question in the back of my head was/is: what will the real-world physical effect be of the US pulling back on securing world trade routes? Are VLCCs really going to become susceptible to random pirate attacks? Dry-good freighters? Will a life in the merchant-marine once again be filled with peril?

The PLA does seem to be uniquely unqualified to patrol the worlds seas. They are currently constructed as force to impose 'stability' at home. But I still have trouble visualizing how this will play out along trade routes.

[M_Ali + 32]

10 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Fox news is mostly "controlled opposition", provided as a "choice" by the MSM conglomerates.

Yes, I know this infographic is a bit dated, and I don't care.  It's pretty easy to view and comprehend.

I can provide more details about MSM controlling and telling you what to think (including Fox) if you wish, bit I am quite certain you would not like it.

 

Thank you Tom for presenting the US Media Conglomerate or Industrial Complex in pictorial form, showing the web of infotainment, intrigue, pacification and stupefying of the masses in the interest of the ruling elites, manufacturing alternative truths to fit the taste of their consumers, Pepsi, Coke, regular, diet zero etc. 

This is what Noam Chomsky calls Consent Manufacturing Industry in cahoot and concert with BIC/MIC Monetary / Military Industrial Complex.

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Marcin2 said:

500 major naval combatants of the upper mentioned countries would leave their ports and start fighting and because China has also nuclear weapons it would end as nuclear winter.

 

They are not going to fight in China or fight China.

Again, your lack of background in imperial history is causing you to react from a Chinese perspective, as people who have never been an outgoing seafaring empire and have no experience of thinking that way. Which is why they perpetually misread the US position, the military deployment. And why they wasted huge portions of their wealth on preparing for fighting a war nobody intends to fight with them. 

You keep twisting the kaleidoscope to form a familiar picture the Chinese would recognize. 

The capture of third parties' markets and their incorporation into imperial networks will not be an attack on China. China will still be able to buy the same goods and sell into the same markets, Just that Japan or Britain's merchants would be marking up the outgoing supplies to China and exclusively importing and marking up the Chinese product. That would leave China with less than the 0 net margin they have been making in recent years. And the more they do, the deeper they dig themselves into the hole. 

It will be similar to what is going on now in oil markets, just not a temporary adjustment period, $30 Brent + shipping 1/2 way round the world vs. US $18 oil piped locally. It isn't that China could not get its hands on stuff, just that the added friction would make its export machine, which buys it its domestic fuel and food needs, unprofitable - meaning that it does not buy them the food and oil they need as the profit margin goes to the imperial intermediaries. . 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 minutes ago, M_Ali said:

Thank you Tom for presenting the US Media Conglomerate or Industrial Complex in pictorial form, showing the web of infotainment, intrigue, pacification and stupefying of the masses in the interest of the ruling elites, manufacturing alternative truths to fit the taste of their consumers, Pepsi, Coke, regular, diet zero etc. 

This is what Noam Chomsky calls Consent Manufacturing Industry in cahoot and concert with BIC/MIC Monetary / Military Industrial Complex.

Ok then, we are already pretty much on the same page then.

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

1 hour ago, Marcin2 said:

So what you are trying to say is that once US Navy leaves Pacific the hell would break loose!

So first Japan, China, South Korea, the largest trading partners of one another, instead of happily trading in electronic, fish and cars and having millions of personal contacts with each other would suddenly start the naval war.

500 major naval combatants of the upper mentioned countries would leave their ports and start fighting and because China has also nuclear weapons it would end as nuclear winter.

Or maybe they would wait 10 more days until another 200 major naval combatants of European countries would arrive and only then start the games.

No 0R0 East Asia and Europe would be business as usual.

I mean I am not British, but could ask @Rob Plant, would Royal Navy and Britain engage in naval and later nuclear war in Pacific cause US would be out in its hemispehre and not policing you  ?

This is all hypothetical and it depends on a lot of “what ifs” especially who is in government in the UK at the time

however for the last 70 odd years we have stood toe to toe With America defending the weak and opposing oppression (in our view anyway) so I would not be surprised in the slightest if we assisted a warranted defence of a nation in distress or to defeat a clear enemy of our nations.

Marcin I know you are a keen advocate of the Chinese navy however against the subs of the US and the UK their navy would be toast in a few days. You will disagree with this but I can assure you it is true. The new Astute and Dreadnought class nuclear subs just aren’t traceable even at full speed. Good luck to anyone taking on these! The Chinese would back down before any escalation to potential nuclear war

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

2 hours ago, M_Ali said:

You just proudly acknowledged your John Wayneian political philosophy on CCP that I highlighted in my comment above, your conformance is duly noted!!! the fact that you have no American passport is irrelevant to the point I was making. You might have heard the English proverb of Courtiers being more monarchical than the Monarch. 

However, you references to CCP's poor records on human rights, lack of freedom of speech, expression, and press, political suppression and prisoners are generally known even the Chinese authorities would confess that they don't run a Swedish style liberal democracy.

But it also clearly demonstrates your poor knowledge of American History and its perpetual wars of Empire building particularly since WWII toppling or coercing legitimate national governments around the world not conforming with US global or regional hegemonic policies, invading, bombing, destroying countless countries; killing, dispossessing, displacing, maiming millions of people around the world with its advanced MIC tools of trade,....all in the name of protecting the national interest, security and the freedom of the American Empire. So CCP's historical record in comparison looks really clean and civilized indeed, unless you call "one road one belt" project an act of global Chinese aggression and invasion not so nice as the WOT Project drawn by the Newcons fraternity!!

FYI, US has the highest number of "social" prisoners per Capita in the world. Only a naive person or a child may not know the interrelationship between social and political issues in a highly complex class based modern society. 

Those poor souls whose unclaimed bodies are being piled in a mass grave in the Borough of the Dead are victims of a highly corrupt socioeconomic and political system run by WS Banksters  NOT victims of "Wuhan Virus".

Evidently your mind is only open to preferred preconceptions and complies with what comforts it. 

 

 

I’m not usually this blunt but I’ve had a few beers and can’t be bothered with you frankly

what you write is utter bullshit of the highest order 
im presuming you are another paid up member of the CCP
believe your drivel if you must

good evening

[M_Ali + 32]

4 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I’m not usually this blunt but I’ve had a few beers and can’t be bothered with you frankly

what you write is utter bullshit of the highest order 
im presuming you are another paid up member of the CCP
believe your drivel if you must

good evening

Your blunt nonsensical cowboy response is Full of Beer, your presumption is ill founded.

Alcohol infused dogmatism is no substitute for rationalism. 

Cheers, 

 

 

[TooSteep + 142]

Interesting, from Luc Montagnier. This might have been an attempt at a HIV vaccine:

https://www.gilmorehealth.com/chinese-coronavirus-is-a-man-made-virus-according-to-luc-montagnier-the-man-who-discovered-hiv/

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

4 minutes ago, M_Ali said:

Your blunt nonsensical cowboy response is Full of Beer, your presumption is ill founded.

Alcohol infused dogmatism is no substitute for rationalism. 

Cheers, 

 

 

Haha I’m a cowboy

brilliant logic there 

does that make you Tonto?

im not American!!!

i don’t live in America and never have!

how am I a cowboy ??

and you think you’re rational

the straight jacket awaits you mate!

[0R0 + 6,251]

12 minutes ago, TooSteep said:

Yes. This. Occam's razor.

 

Hey 0R0 - I really enjoy reading your posts. But ... I have to admit, I felt just like Marcin2 when I first read Peter Zeihan, with his emphasis on the US Navy being the foundation of world trade. The question in the back of my head was/is: what will the real-world physical effect be of the US pulling back on securing world trade routes? Are VLCCs really going to become susceptible to random pirate attacks? Dry-good freighters? Will a life in the merchant-marine once again be filled with peril?

The PLA does seem to be uniquely unqualified to patrol the worlds seas. They are currently constructed as force to impose 'stability' at home. But I still have trouble visualizing how this will play out along trade routes.

Read imperial era history.

The VLCCs and bulk carriers are the ultimate targets. Remember that whole nations lived off of piracy carried out by semi-official means. Spanish galleons of today. Heavy, full of fungible goods anyone can use, slow moving, Indefensible face to face. It is the bread and butter of piracy. It was what the Somali pirates were stealing. Holding for ransom.

Just think of it, you have opportunities to just  take $100 million at a pop, trade it offshore transferring to other vessels and ransoming the empty ship. And selling off the goods. This is the scale which has to have governments at it. It had always been before. 

Next up is what happens when you have established a subsidiary relationship with an empire so that your stuff does not get pirated away, is commit all your output to their merchants and commit all your inputs to them as well. They become your interface to the world economy. 

Then next up is what happens to those who do not have that position of naval power to offer their suppliers, producers or end markets. Their margins become squished as they have no direct commercial relationships and must act through the imperial intermediaries. You don't do your business in Cote D'Ivoire in their commercial hub, you do it in Paris. The Paris team of merchants directs the ops on the ground. This holds equally regardless of whether you are China or Germany and don't have a naval power to project. 

Just remember after WWI, the US went for oil in the ME. It was competing with Brits and French who were gunboating it along the coasts of the Gulf and Syria Palestine and Lebanon. They had the entire oil bonanza buttoned up, when Philby the elder sold out Britain and invited the US into the leases with al Saud. The US was an outsider in the imperial world so only got a chunk of meat because of an accidental defector from Britain. Good thing it was the best and biggest chunk. But the US companies were not even in the running for the rest, and up till then were not even allowed a bid. It was only this opportunity that allowed the US navy to poke into the Arabian and Iranian Gulf. The French and Brits were stunned to find this species of boat floating in their seas. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

Interesting development..why start something at a time like this?...Perhaps to gauge just how much discourse there really is towards the CCP.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/China-And-Malaysia-Clash-In-Highly-Disputed-South-China-Sea.html

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

40 minutes ago, Rob Plant said:

I’m not usually this blunt but I’ve had a few beers

Hoo boy.  Careful there Rob.  Drinking and posting and being blunt can cause ... hangovers.

[0R0 + 6,251]

4 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Interesting development..why start something at a time like this?...Perhaps to gauge just how much discourse there really is towards the CCP.

https://oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/China-And-Malaysia-Clash-In-Highly-Disputed-South-China-Sea.html

I guess that is the final nail in that relationship's coffin. Bye bye Vietnam too. I am sure they will blow away Duterte as well. 

They make friends so easily. 

They are so setting themselves up to find one morning  that there is no such thing a Chinese navy.

Anyone want to bet that the folks involved would not make an effort to choke off China's trade before it reaches the S China Sea if the opportunity were to arise?

[Marcin2 + 726]

1 hour ago, Rob Plant said:

This is all hypothetical and it depends on a lot of “what ifs” especially who is in government in the UK at the time

however for the last 70 odd years we have stood toe to toe With America defending the weak and opposing oppression (in our view anyway) so I would not be surprised in the slightest if we assisted a warranted defence of a nation in distress or to defeat a clear enemy of our nations.

Marcin I know you are a keen advocate of the Chinese navy however against the subs of the US and the UK their navy would be toast in a few days. You will disagree with this but I can assure you it is true. The new Astute and Dreadnought class nuclear subs just aren’t traceable even at full speed. Good luck to anyone taking on these! The Chinese would back down before any escalation to potential nuclear war

I know that UK and US subs are quiet and superior in comparison to noisy Chinese ones.

What I am trying to say is that it matters only between non nuclear powers.

In the darkest hours of Cold War NEVER any American , British or Soviet vessel or other important military asset was directly attacked out of Well defined local proxy war games area.

Cause this according to MAD doctrine would ensure intensive conventional and later nuclear counter attack.

This is common knowledge and was trained in many military games but I would repeat this.

Russia, US and China each have territory equal or over 10 million square kilometres with population industry and military spread around vast area.

Britain and France are small countries.

Warning strike of 5 warheads of 500 kt each leaves Britain or France devastated, large countries continue with still over 90% of resources.

Britain and France even using their whole arsenal against China or Russia still keeps the countries functioning and ready for Second strike. 100 warheads at Britain or France kills over half of population and  country does nit exist.

The same is with all other nuclear powers bar India and all developed countries.
That is why at the end of the day only US , China and Russia count in modern total war.

Edited April 17, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

3 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

I guess that is the final nail in that relationship's coffin. Bye bye Vietnam too. I am sure they will blow away Duterte as well. 

They make friends so easily. 

They are so setting themselves up to find one morning  that there is no such thing a Chinese navy.

Anyone want to bet that the folks involved would not make an effort to choke off China's trade before it reaches the S China Sea if the opportunity were to arise?

Actually i believe it is just a test to gauge unity, a lot of mfg went from China to that area of the world....its all in the innocent messaging or not so innocent.