The President and the Plague

[0R0 + 6,251]

19 hours ago, UNC12345 said:

Would you say that those on FOX news are any different in terms of pushing a viewpoint?  Obviously on the other end of the political spectrum and almost always in support of all things Trump...

Yes. When they don't have evidence they don't wriggle around with empty words and innuendo to substitute for it. They put it out as a suspicion. Or the note on the suspicion is on the web site but not on air.  They don't tend to take comments out of context to obtain a micro-soundbite that implies something other than what was said. But yes, they do badly enough - though to a much smaller degree. My main turn off is the catering to the religious right and the Coulterites. That makes me ashamed to have turned it on.

While I dropped the mainstream media entirely some years ago as they became further detached from journalism, I do use CNBC and Bloomberg routinely as Fox business is all too often pop finance. All that smells of politics has to be verified on a third party site. 

The media blame game and mass action shows you what to do. If they are poo-poohing the pandemic when it was in China and the WHO pretended they didn't know better, you knew to panic. Now you know it is becoming safe to open the economy in general because the media are hopping mad and accusing Trump of murdering grandma. 

Same as the CCP propaganda. You knew it was a horrible outbreak in Wuhan when the sources of info from China kept being retracted and people disappeared. Silence meant something dreadful was going on. When Wuhan was under lockdown and videos leaked of dead  people  taken off the street and apartment buildings you knew they were lying about every aspect of the disease. As you saw later from CDC instructions for testing, they were copy and paste jobs from the early Chinese government testing policy - they were essentially working for the Chinese government, not the US. They felt safer following precedent from proven liars in China over thinking things through. 

China's government must have such an enormous payroll and ad bill coming due. 

I still can't believe that nobody among the social media is viewing the WHO as the corrupt China controlled organization that it is and using it as a referee for truth and information. The social media need a straight out law forbidding them from doing business in China, employing people there and taking advertising from companies or organizations with a CCP member. They won't let go of China's "total addressable market" till it is clearly not available to them. And as long as that is available for China to dangle in front of their noses, they will do China's censorship for them.

[0R0 + 6,251]

9 hours ago, BradleyPNW said:

Cuomo and the other governors have indicated we will be on stay-at-home orders until we have a vaccine. That means we're looking at a year to 18 months of this. The reason we're in lockdowns is that Donald decided to golf and cosplay at red hat rallies during January and February. That resulted in skyrocketing cases across the country that left us vulnerable to exponential infection rates if we cancel the stay-at-home orders. If infection rates turn exponential rather than linear we will wind up killing our hospital ER and ICU staffs, highly skilled workers who require decades of training. 

It's been 15 + years for SARS. There will be no vaccine before natural immunity, unless there is a really lucky stumble on one of the new technologies. The traditional methods have all failed in SARS because the vaccine produces the same kind of cytokine storm as CV19 when re-exposed to the virus.

Cuomo will open up when Trump tells him to because people will stream out of their homes and do it regardless of what Cuomo or DeBlazio said. They pretty much won the dunce cap for the pandemic. Doing as bad or worse as Ms. Whitmer in Michigan. 

Note that it was the states who were supposed to follow suspected infections and track their contacts. Since the CDC gave them nothing to work with they had no information.

There is no reason to expect a change from the behavior of the contagion just because Cuomo had a nightmare. The behavior is well established. All contagions follow an exponential track. It is the mathematical form of saying "virus".

What resulted in skyrocketing infections was a lack of testing due to the CDC and FDA FORBIDDING the tests. The deceptive message of the media that it was "just a flu" persisted while Pelosi ran the impeachment, and Trump was meeting his newly formed pandemic control team starting in January. 

Get informed. Stop seeking information from proven liars. 

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

20 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Revision of history? Are you saying that Trump did not waste months by downplaying the danger of the threat? That article is factually correct. 

Hello once again dear Chinese Communist Party agent, thanks for promoting the official party line so we know what the lies are. 

[pisstol + 48]

The president and his advisors made a mistake spending so much money to fight the plague. One of the reasons that the economy shouldn't be shut down to fight the corona virus is that we have no assurance that it won't be quickly followed by another plague, maybe from viruses or from antibiotic-resistant bacteria. But we are sure that shutting down the economy and creating digital money "ex nihilo" will hurt us, maybe leading to high inflation.

Another reason is that city people are helpless in a time of economic collapse. Millions of Americans live in deserts. Deserts can't support so many people with food and water. When most people lived on farms, they could get water. And country people used to know how to find edible "weeds". More people could die from the lack or money, or from hyperinflation, than from the plague.

[0R0 + 6,251]

10 hours ago, BradleyPNW said:

That's not what those governors are doing. They identified the measures they will use to start opening the economy, they did not offer timelines. One example, testing. They're sending a message to Trump: get testing in order or the economy will remain closed. Here's one of the west coast governors explaining that point: https://mynorthwest.com/1816026/gov-inslee-testing-increase-covid-19/?

That is not going to happen till a couple of months into the summer because we are full up on the nation's test throughput  in terms of machines. You need to build new facilities, new machines put in new staff and start running. So opening up will happen regardless of whether tests are planned for or not. They are not available in the necessary quantity. 

NY Metro and the megalopolis from Philly to Boston can open by mid May. Mchigan outside of Detroit metro too. Eeryone else can go to work.

We need the virus to continue advancing through the younger population of kids and parents to produce sufficient community immunity. We want to limit the rate of spread, not eliminate it. 

Reading off the CCP's checklist of the steps required to destroy the US is not a legitimate outcome to any process of reasoning. Knock it off.

BTW, commuter NYC, Philly, Boston, Detroit are all going to have close to herd immunity because the prevalence found in sample testing shows about 10 to 15 times as many infections as cases tested (Copenhagen and Heinsburg respectively)  and those cities will have many more cases since they are much denser because of reliance on public transport (super spreading conditions). 

[0R0 + 6,251]

10 hours ago, BradleyPNW said:

I feel sorry for people who keep thinking the economy will re-open now that stay-at-home orders have restrained the pandemic. They don't understand that you have to keep the stay-at-home orders in place to keep the infection rates down. It will be especially hard on the unemployed in red states that refused to expand Obamacare. They'll lose their healthcare insurance on top of everything else. 

The economy will reopen. 

Those governors who try to stand in the way will not have Federal funding past the opening date, and have their states go bankrupt and pensions go on rescue, at about 13 cents on the dollar if they don't follow.

Pie in the sky wishes to sabotage the economy and Trump's reelection are bringing you to take draconian measures that were extremely excessive and counterproductive at the height of the spread, not to speak of current circumstances. 

The governors that shut it down will be unelectable. 

Healthcare will move to private hands so that no group purchases can be made by unionized workforces and government employees. They can go on medicaid. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

So on one hand the various governors are telling us Trump isn’t a king, and they’ll open their respective economies when they see fit. While on the other hand they need the President to supply them with kit.

If I was Trump, I’d say okay governors, if that is what you want, fine. But YOU go on the record for accepting any and all consequences, good or bad, for opening up your economy, on your timeline.

It’s either that or go to the Supreme Court to determine who, the President or the governors, have has primacy in this issue.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

5 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

BTW, commuter NYC, Philly, Boston, Detroit are all going to have close to herd immunity because the prevalence found in sample testing shows about 10 to 15 times as many infections as cases tested (Copenhagen and Heinsburg respectively)  and those cities will have many more cases since they are much denser because of reliance on public transport (super spreading conditions). 

The problem is that in any population are vulnerable people--both young and old but mostly old--who escaped the first wave. When the country is reopened--as it must be soon--we must be ready for an intense second wave. This could potentially be worse than the first--it largely depends on whether this virus is seasonal or not, or if it has mutated to a milder or worse form. 

In my opinion, we must bow our heads to the sadness around us and keep the country open at that point, even though good people who have contributed a great amount are falling all around us. We have had as much sheltering in place, staying away from work, as the economy can tolerate. 

Herd immunity, yes, but back on the ranch we had a saying for hard times: we have to thin the herd. Alas, that seems inevitable.

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So on one hand the various governors are telling us Trump isn’t a king, and they’ll open their respective economies when they see fit. While on the other hand they need the President to supply them with kit.

If I was Trump, I’d say okay governors, if that is what you want, fine. But YOU go on the record for accepting any and all consequences, good or bad, for opening up your economy, on your timeline.

It’s either that or go to the Supreme Court to determine who, the President or the governors, have has primacy in this issue.

The president will go on air and declare it is over and people will be out in force. Governors will not matter. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

4 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

The problem is that in any population are vulnerable people--both young and old but mostly old--who escaped the first wave. When the country is reopened--as it must be soon--we must be ready for an intense second wave. This could potentially be worse than the first--it largely depends on whether this virus is seasonal or not, or if it has mutated to a milder or worse form. 

In my opinion, we must bow our heads to the sadness around us and keep the country open at that point, even though good people who have contributed a great amount are falling all around us. We have had as much sheltering in place, staying away from work, as the economy can tolerate. 

Herd immunity, yes, but back on the ranch we had a saying for hard times: we have to thin the herd. Alas, that seems inevitable.

We need to continue protecting the high risk population, they can be allowed to minimize contact at work or remain at home till it is clear we are not forming new temperature clusters. But common sense actions are really necessary for key spreading environments, e.g. people on public transport are with masks and gloves or can not come on board. 

There have been some sharp drops in deaths in some states with fewer cases. That may be a treatment consensus coming into play as it had in Germany. I am giving it a third or fourth day before I can ascribe a particular probable cause for it and confirm it as a trend. 

 

Speaking of eating on the rough in the countryside, a city real estate analyst came with a paper this week to quiet down fears of a mass exodus out of the big cities. I think it is exactly this period that has shown us how many can actually work with minimal time at the office and how much more work time is available if you don't commute.  Bringing up real questions as to the scaling of downtonwn offices and the need for people to be in it. And the call of the suburbs, already heard loud and clear as Millennials have their first child, first truck and first SUV. They don't want to start their families in death trap cities. 

[UNC12345 + 171]

41 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Pie in the sky wishes to sabotage the economy and Trump's reelection

I thought I was going to have to wander the woods and back country to talk to whacky conspiracy theorists, but it turns out I just need to come here.  You say some interesting and valid things, but why delve into craziness and ridiculous statements?

Edited April 15, 2020 by UNC12345

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

3 minutes ago, UNC12345 said:

I thought I was going to have to wander the woods and back country to talk to whacky conspiracy theorists, but it turns out I just need to come here.  You say some interesting and valid things, but why delve into craziness and ridiculous statements?

Odd things happen during a crisis and the US is in a crisis. Our financial institutions have been infected with covid. In the end that brings out what I call a survival instinct.

Once this survival instinct takes hold Americans have historically reacted with little forethought...always remember McCarthyism, when the appetite for revenge was over...only then was it called a American tragedy.

I am quite sure before this event is over a very harsh look will be taken on such matters. If indeed some orginaztions did politicize this event...harsh measures will be implemented... History has shown us how the US reacts to such a occurrence. Survival is a very unforgiving instinct.

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Pie in the sky wishes to sabotage the economy and Trump's reelection 

 

1 hour ago, UNC12345 said:

I thought I was going to have to wander the woods and back country to talk to whacky conspiracy theorists, but it turns out I just need to come here.  You say some interesting and valid things, but why delve into craziness and ridiculous statements?

 

UNC, your definitions of whacky conspiracy theorists, craziness, and ridiculous statements are clearly different from mine.

Carry on.

[GunnysGhost + 157]

Future Presidents will benefit from the fact that the panic surrounding Covid-19, Covid- 20, Covid-24.... xxx  could only last the first year until the shock wore off and society eventually accepted that no POTUS has a magic wand that can realistically prevent viruses and prions from adapting and infecting hosts.

 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

The one great thing to emerge from Covid-19 is the realization that we (America, the UK, the EU) have subjugated the quality of medicines, medical devices, testing kits, reagents, iPhones, solar panels and Teslas to the "integrity" of the Chinese people, who no matter how good in character are nonetheless the subjects of a communist regime. 

And that regime has--through either accident or intent--tried to kill us. By lying, if nothing else. And by sending us faulty Covid testing kits. 

These are hard-fought lessons, but they're also likely to be enduring ones. Future presidents are going to have to pay heed to that. I am quite sure, for example, that Joey Two-Fingers is reevaluating his unswerving support for all things made in China, and for the CCP. I don't think for a minute that Joey will become our president, but he has to be attempting to process that data. 

Edited April 15, 2020 by Gerry Maddoux

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

15 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Next you’ll be quoting Mad Magazine...

Mad Magazine was the precursor to the Daily Show with Jon Steward, wasn't it?  LOL!  At one point in my youth, I got all my BIG news from Mad Magazine.

[UNC12345 + 171]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

The deceptive message of the media that it was "just a flu"

So you are saying that Trump never said this himself?  That the media is deceiving us and he did not say this to the country?  Is this what you are saying?  Please don't launch into a thousand links and pictures to muddy the issue. 

Question:  Did Trump say this or are you blaming this on deception by the media? 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

3 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

So on one hand the various governors are telling us Trump isn’t a king, and they’ll open their respective economies when they see fit. While on the other hand they need the President to supply them with kit.

If I was Trump, I’d say okay governors, if that is what you want, fine. But YOU go on the record for accepting any and all consequences, good or bad, for opening up your economy, on your timeline.

It’s either that or go to the Supreme Court to determine who, the President or the governors, have has primacy in this issue.

It is a common political practice. Held the economy and citizen lives/assets as hostages against demand for changes and avoid responsibility.

In communism countries survived after 1990, most people live in houses that were granted or allowed their family to keep in the past. The policies will concentrate on keeping the real estate bubble as big as possible. Many people in the big metro cities enjoy their assets value keep increasing. No matter if they agree with Communist Party or not, they are afraid of changes (for democracy, justice, human right,better healthcare, lower cost of livings..). The controlled and funded media will keep spreading the fear that if they listen to "the enemy" and want to change the system, their family houses value/ real estate investment will burst, your wealth will burst. The people will stay quiet and mind their own businesses.

And the Gov keeps promising hopes generation to generation. The youngsters with lots of energy seem to be manipulated more easily  by being feed questions hinted with answers, while the elders tends to develop immunity overtime, unless they are still too emotional.

Even when the real estate bubble bursts and brings the Communist Party with it, or any form of revolution occurs,  the reformed successive government, even without opportunists, will have to pay high price to clean up the big mess, with huge inherited foreign debt, high unemployment rate, hyperinflation and have to sell off public assets cheaply. With very limited controls, they will perform poorly and many people will be disappointed (who think a bright future will appear right after the collapse of the totalitarian party). People start recall their golden time and likely to support for the old party members, who will proudly take credit for the "good job" they did and blame the new government for the struggling.

Edited April 15, 2020 by SUZNV

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

1 hour ago, UNC12345 said:

So you are saying that Trump never said this himself?  That the media is deceiving us and he did not say this to the country?  Is this what you are saying?  Please don't launch into a thousand links and pictures to muddy the issue. 

Question:  Did Trump say this or are you blaming this on deception by the media? 

Of course Trump compared it to regular flu several times, he also clearly demonstrated that he is mentally incapable of understanding the scope of the problem (being surprised why hospitals need more than 2 ventilators), and contradicted himself numerous times, just watch his speeches, it's all on youtube, documented, for everyone to see. His method is to blatantly lie, always, all the time, without blushing, every time he has a feeling nobody is watching, he tries to swap a fact for a lie and pretends his lie was a fact all the time. But people remember, it's silly, it's immature, and the damage to the international reputation of the USA as a partner and an ally is done and cannot be easily undone. 

[UNC12345 + 171]

I was really hoping to hear from ORO!

[SUZNV + 1,197]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

The one great thing to emerge from Covid-19 is the realization that we (America, the UK, the EU) have subjugated the quality of medicines, medical devices, testing kits, reagents, iPhones, solar panels and Teslas to the "integrity" of the Chinese people, who no matter how good in character are nonetheless the subjects of a communist regime. 

And that regime has--through either accident or intent--tried to kill us. By lying, if nothing else. And by sending us faulty Covid testing kits. 

These are hard-fought lessons, but they're also likely to be enduring ones. Future presidents are going to have to pay heed to that. I am quite sure, for example, that Joey Two-Fingers is reevaluating his unswerving support for all things made in China, and for the CCP. I don't think for a minute that Joey will become our president, but he has to be attempting to process that data. 

Or we can try to forgive and forget, just like we did many time in the past, for personal gain, or loan and investment, or access to "Crazy rich Asian" market or it is inevitable no matter what. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 hours ago, UNC12345 said:

So you are saying that Trump never said this himself?  That the media is deceiving us and he did not say this to the country?  Is this what you are saying?  Please don't launch into a thousand links and pictures to muddy the issue. 

Question:  Did Trump say this or are you blaming this on deception by the media? 

Of course he did, along with most other leaders. 

Everyone was hoodwinked by the Chinese and their mouthpiece WHO and the media took the lead.

While it is "a flu", it was not "just" nobody had pre-existing immunity and it took the weak. The death rates per infection (not symptomatic case at the hospital) appears to be less than 1/10th of the number implied by positive tests. Meaning that about 0,5% or fewer people died per infection. That is far higher than the flu, but not that horrible. 

The deception was first and foremost from China. 

Media cheered a "just a flu". Because they were HELPING the CCP spread the virus in the West, and hide its magnitude and scope. 

Trump was repeatedly advised it was "just a flu" till Nial Ferusson's projections from Imperial College came out and all the Western officials did a 180.  

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 hours ago, SUZNV said:

Or we can try to forgive and forget, just like we did many time in the past, for personal gain, or loan and investment, or access to "Crazy rich Asian" market or it is inevitable no matter what. 

Not this time.

Amazon has removed "made in China" from product descriptions. 

As a result, I return all such products as defective.

I am sure many of us are doing the same. 

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 4/15/2020 at 2:53 PM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Of course Trump compared it to regular flu several times, he also clearly demonstrated that he is mentally incapable of understanding the scope of the problem (being surprised why hospitals need more than 2 ventilators), and contradicted himself numerous times, just watch his speeches, it's all on youtube, documented, for everyone to see. His method is to blatantly lie, always, all the time, without blushing, every time he has a feeling nobody is watching, he tries to swap a fact for a lie and pretends his lie was a fact all the time. But people remember, it's silly, it's immature, and the damage to the international reputation of the USA as a partner and an ally is done and cannot be easily undone. 

As you may have noticed, that was the word in the advisory circles for ALL WESTERN Governments. It was deliberate obfuscation by the CCP, which you so amply represent here, why not throw a Tirade against the Dutch prime minister. 

You are being selective in your reporting. 

If there were any means to conduct tests then there could have been a different response. But the CDC and FDA deliberately FORBADE them from everyone, even the dinky Chinese ones. The apparatchiks - your administrative class global dictatorship guys - DID IT.  

Edited April 16, 2020 by 0R0

[0R0 + 6,251]

That is not a conspiracy theory it is a result from a poll of Democrats oft quoted here. 

They preferred the zombie apocalypse over having Trump elected. And another meme that pops up here often is the Democrat that does not want a solution to coronavirus, a cure, or a treatment. All he wants is for it to be Trump's fault, and the worse it is the more he likes it.

You should understand that the twilight zone is on that side of the ail.

5 hours ago, UNC12345 said:

6 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Pie in the sky wishes to sabotage the economy and Trump's reelection

I thought I was going to have to wander the woods and back country to talk to whacky conspiracy theorists, but it turns out I just need to come here.  You say some interesting and valid things, but why delve into craziness and ridiculous statements?