The Blind Leading the Blind

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

To set the stage, I do not have a medical background, I am an engineer. 

Furthermore, I am just like everybody else as I to am forced to rely on questionable media sources for my information.

That said, there seems to be little, or no, consensus between the various medical association, various doctors, or various politicians, regarding the present lethality of the corona virus, the level of infection, or the effectiveness of any treatment proposed. There also seems to be dissension among the ‘experts’ as to the necessity, or effectiveness, of these draconian lockdown measures.

Everyone does seem to agree that the prevention measures presently in place are destroying economies and driving the world to the brink of a depression.

For Americans, the trampling of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is of grave concern.

This whole corona virus issue reminds me of the climate change debate where we are willing to bet our livelihood and way of life on science which does not have the blessing of the entire scientific community and has hatched cheerleaders on both sides of the debate that rarely, if ever, actually understand the science supporting what they are cheering about.

In regards to the corona virus issue, and the climate change debate, it appears that the blind are leading the blind.

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Dude, chill ...

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

15 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

This whole corona virus issue reminds me of the climate change debate where we are willing to bet our livelihood and way of life on science which does not have the blessing of the entire scientific community

 

http://smbc-comics.com/comic/2011-09-22

Edited April 23, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

38 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

To set the stage, I do not have a medical background, I am an engineer. 

Furthermore, I am just like everybody else as I to am forced to rely on questionable media sources for my information.

That said, there seems to be little, or no, consensus between the various medical association, various doctors, or various politicians, regarding the present lethality of the corona virus, the level of infection, or the effectiveness of any treatment proposed. There also seems to be dissension among the ‘experts’ as to the necessity, or effectiveness, of these draconian lockdown measures.

Everyone does seem to agree that the prevention measures presently in place are destroying economies and driving the world to the brink of a depression.

For Americans, the trampling of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is of grave concern.

This whole corona virus issue reminds me of the climate change debate where we are willing to bet our livelihood and way of life on science which does not have the blessing of the entire scientific community and has hatched cheerleaders on both sides of the debate that rarely, if ever, actually understand the science supporting what they are cheering about.

In regards to the corona virus issue, and the climate change debate, it appears that the blind are leading the blind.

 

@Tom Kirkman You need to get that summary out, man.  I read the first few "pages" of that report you posted and it was obvious it voices many of the same concerns, but breaks them down in detail.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

41 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

@Tom Kirkman You need to get that summary out, man.  I read the first few "pages" of that report you posted and it was obvious it voices many of the same concerns, but breaks them down in detail.

This author does a bangup job breaking down the details.  A summary is not quite the same.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

In regards to the corona virus issue, and the climate change debate, it appears that the blind are leading the blind.

The frustration of what you voice is eating at us all. The doctors, nurses, scientists are not incompetent by any means, they were made to suddenly face an erratic illness that seemed like nothing to most, the flu to others, and a mean end for old men. Suddenly the experts on damn near anything in medicine didn't know which end was up. 

It was as bad for me. In January, having just read that the ACE2 receptor was the gateway to the cell, I contacted people I knew at a world renowned institution. I was one of about fifty million older American men taking an ACE-Inhibitor. Was it protective (which I figured) or deadly (which I feared). No one knew. Just yesterday came a ragtag wartime study saying that it conferred reasonable protection against death by coronavirus. But even the article looked suspicious: it was written by Chinese doctors, and that's a sad commentary on how life has changed.

The truth is humiliating: Despite having a wonderfully equipped CDC and an NIH that is filled to brimming with good minds and dedication, there was no one with a heavy hand also in charge of national preparation for something like this. And then, of course, came the lies from the Chairman, Xi. That apparently followed a propaganda machine from hell, according to the New York Times.

What I just wrote, I realize, is something I have written before, like some errant kid having to write on the blackboard: We did not screw up. We did not screw up. We did not screw up. Get to the fiftieth line and realize: Man, we screwed up! 

Edited April 23, 2020 by Gerry Maddoux

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

In regards to the corona virus issue, and the climate change debate, it appears that the blind are leading the blind.

(My comment 1 of 2)

Simple timeline for you to consider.  Your mileage may vary.

1) War on drugs  (unwinnable)

2) War on terror  (unwinnable)

3) War on Global Warming  ( *sigh* )

4) War on Panic-demic  (unwinnable)

Each of these items in the timeline has a very specific thing in common:  "voluntarily" giving up rights and freedoms in exchange for a false sense of security.

See how that works?

Also, I refuse to apologize for being a pain in the butt about my views.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

(My comment 2 of 2)  (Copied from elsewhere.  Amusing but mostly true.)

=============================================================

Can we get an accurate timeline of what's even happening in the world right now?

>2020 starts off with a bang, WW3 almost happens

>virus memes out in china, reports are that it's bad to horrendous

>starts happening in the west with most countries going into pseudo-martial law

>media and left going into a tailspin trying to have this be the end of the world

>turns out it's a meme virus akin to the flu and the media is overplaying the f*ck out of it for raisins

>Trump declares national emergency and gets wartime powers

>largest military operation happening in europe (Defend Europe 2020) since the cold war ended

>million+ troops stationed across American soil, Trump now saying he's going to bring out all stops to end the "Invisible enemy"

>now he's flying out Blue Angels and other aircraft for moral reasons (now we'll regularly be seeing aircraft in the sky and this is the cover story)

>globalism in freefall around the world with nationalism on the rise, governments around the world being shown for what they are, protection for the elite

>celebs and other political elite acting really really abnormal through the entire thing to say the least, even the sleepiest of normies are waking

>Trump seized the Federal Reserve something that Andrew Jackson would have loved and something that got Abe Lincoln and JFK assassinated for even mentioning

>he now signed an EO going around congress to issue money during the crisis giving him control of all the money and where it can be sent

>Gates, Wuhan, Microsoft, WHO all confirmed rumored to be hacked within the last 24 hours

>now confirmed rumors of wikileaks releasing all their documents

>all happening around the announcement of a new chan which may or may not be a honeypot (unconfirmed but suspicious indeed)

Are we in the heart of the start of something big here?

What's going to happen in these next couple of days, it seems like it's going to be huge honestly. Like HUGE.

What's going to happen??

===================================================

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

To set the stage, I do not have a medical background, I am an engineer. 

Furthermore, I am just like everybody else as I to am forced to rely on questionable media sources for my information.

That said, there seems to be little, or no, consensus between the various medical association, various doctors, or various politicians, regarding the present lethality of the corona virus, the level of infection, or the effectiveness of any treatment proposed. There also seems to be dissension among the ‘experts’ as to the necessity, or effectiveness, of these draconian lockdown measures.

Everyone does seem to agree that the prevention measures presently in place are destroying economies and driving the world to the brink of a depression.

For Americans, the trampling of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is of grave concern.

This whole corona virus issue reminds me of the climate change debate where we are willing to bet our livelihood and way of life on science which does not have the blessing of the entire scientific community and has hatched cheerleaders on both sides of the debate that rarely, if ever, actually understand the science supporting what they are cheering about.

In regards to the corona virus issue, and the climate change debate, it appears that the blind are leading the blind.

 

https://mobile.twitter.com/EmeraldRobinson/status/1253206716197584899

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

I read a sad story today where a man in his 40s who has terminal cancer and with a 2 year old son has had his treatment stopped because of this farce. His life will now be shortened because of the mismanagement of our health service and I imagine there must be hundreds if not thousands of people in a similar situation.

We are told every day to 'save the NHS' which like Tom's article states is totally upside down, they are supposed to be there to save us when we need it not the other way around.

It also seems to be finally coming out that possibly half of deaths from CV-19 are people who were in care or care homes...protect the NHS and throw the elderly under a bus is the mantra.

Honestly I am completely repulsed by what this country has done not to mention they are being very very quiet about our unemployment figures. We all know the US may have as many as 26 million unemployed but where are the UK estimates from the government? Based on the US figures and population I'd say it must be 2-4 million in a country of 65-70 million maybe higher.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

[Marcin2 + 725]

Climate change - CoVID19 the difference is the people really die, so i have limited belief in danger of first one , but acknowledge existence of the Second.

I do not know what to think about CoVID19 : how government should react ?

My first instinct was fear, but later I thought what about all these unemployed people ?

I am in a relative financial comfort, but if I had existential problems I am sure I would ignore any quarantine / lockdown just to provide for my family, cause the risk of death for me at 43, is less than 1/10,000 , more than flu and car accident put together but still very low.

I think that the task of government is to protect both population and economy, but old and sick people need to be cautious and should get help from authorities like shopping.

Each country has own solution, there should be public discussion.

For example Polish authorities are relaxing some of restrictions to not kill the economy.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

14 minutes ago, Marcin2 said:

Climate change - CoVID19 the difference is the people really die, so i have limited belief in danger of first one , but acknowledge existence of the Second.

I do not know what to think about CoVID19 : how government should react ?

My first instinct was fear, but later I thought what about all these unemployed people ?

 

My "timeline" was meant to illustrate this singular point:

1 hour ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Each of these items in the timeline has a very specific thing in common:  "voluntarily" giving up rights and freedoms in exchange for a FALSE sense of security.

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 hour ago, El Nikko said:

 

I like Sky News Australia.  Every time I catch one of their broadcasts they seem to be talking in common sense language.  A rarity these days.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

The daily mail is a pile of steaming dog excrament but this article sums up the idiotic situation in this country.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8249241/Nearly-40-000-hospital-beds-lie-operations-treatments-cancelled.html

and to get you in the mood for the health service killing off granny you can watch this 'fun' video

 

Edited April 23, 2020 by El Nikko

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Beds empty

https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/nhs-hospitals-have-four-times-more-empty-beds-than-normal/7027392.article

[Floyd Looney + 8]

It might be bad in NYC, but with voluntary medicine suspended many hospitals are empty and laying off employees.

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Climate change - CoVID19 the difference is the people really die, so i have limited belief in danger of first one , but acknowledge existence of the Second.

I do not know what to think about CoVID19 : how government should react ?

My first instinct was fear, but later I thought what about all these unemployed people ?

I am in a relative financial comfort, but if I had existential problems I am sure I would ignore any quarantine / lockdown just to provide for my family, cause the risk of death for me at 43, is less than 1/10,000 , more than flu and car accident put together but still very low.

I think that the task of government is to protect both population and economy, but old and sick people need to be cautious and should get help from authorities like shopping.

Each country has own solution, there should be public discussion.

For example Polish authorities are relaxing some of restrictions to not kill the economy.

The point was never to try to stop the propagation of the virus but to slow it. None of the shutdowns were relevant to that, but took it to extremes for the purpose of actually stopping the spread. Instead of protecting the vulnerable and and allowing rational mitigation by individuals and their organizations. 

The bottom line is that even in pandemics, health is not public. It is personal. 

"Authorities" should simply not be.

I think  that governments are incapable of rational processes of deliberation so can not come to grips with anything, so their instinctive reactions are to ignore it, "study" it, then shut down everything that is not them and control everything in a paranoid panic. Governments should be removed from power in healthcare and medicine completely. At most they can be allowed to pay a bill. Not direct, not control, not collate information, not distribute, not coordinate, not command. 

[Marcin2 + 725]

43 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Governments should be removed from power in healthcare and medicine completely. At most they can be allowed to pay a bill. Not direct, not control, not collate information, not distribute, not coordinate, not command. 

In the United States there was a study that there are 17 intermediary before gear or services reaches patient from the initial producer. You are being simply cheated by the medical & pharma mafia, the same medical service costs 3 -10 times more in the US than in any other developed country. I suspect it is some other manifestation of a very high legislative and regulation corruption at the top level, that we can see everywhere  in the United States.

That is why you guys think that I am anti-American. I mean a lot of Europeans that understand what is lobbyism in the United States are really disgusted.

I never met any question or case study for auditors (internal or external) that would analyze the very "balance of power" in the US government. Total taboo.

I am relatively happy that can live in a middle income country where every bum living on a street has universal healthcare, maybe it is not as good as in US but it is public good and 10 times cheaper.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Marcin2
typo

[0R0 + 6,251]

Yes, there are multiple levels of corruption, and an additional level of malevolence in suspension of anti trust law for hospital coops regional pharma distributors/benefits/wholesalers and their likes as well as medical staff unions. Kickbacks are paid to hospital corps. by the coop organization where the markup occurs. 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Wow does anyone elses country have people standing outside clanking tea pots and clapping? Just popped out for some beers and witnessed almost cult-like behaviour.

Instead of 'hope' we need action and right now..every day lost is another step towards a 10 year depression

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

To set the stage, I do not have a medical background, I am an engineer. 

Furthermore, I am just like everybody else as I to am forced to rely on questionable media sources for my information.

That said, there seems to be little, or no, consensus between the various medical association, various doctors, or various politicians, regarding the present lethality of the corona virus, the level of infection, or the effectiveness of any treatment proposed. There also seems to be dissension among the ‘experts’ as to the necessity, or effectiveness, of these draconian lockdown measures.

Everyone does seem to agree that the prevention measures presently in place are destroying economies and driving the world to the brink of a depression.

For Americans, the trampling of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights is of grave concern.

This whole corona virus issue reminds me of the climate change debate where we are willing to bet our livelihood and way of life on science which does not have the blessing of the entire scientific community and has hatched cheerleaders on both sides of the debate that rarely, if ever, actually understand the science supporting what they are cheering about.

In regards to the corona virus issue, and the climate change debate, it appears that the blind are leading the blind.

 

The problem with democracy is that the majority are often wrong about what is the best for the country or locality. Both the Covid 19 and Global Warming issues are very contentious and we are suffering economically already due to decisions made. These decisions were guided and are being guided by so called experts that are lacking in common sense. They do not know how to do a cost/benefit analysis. 

The same type of decision making is governing our fiscal mess. We have dug the nation and the localities into one big budget hole and hundreds of small holes. New York, and Illinois are already begging to be bailed out. California may follow. NYC and Chicago (among others) are in dire straights otherwise their states would not be. Many leaders have literally bought votes and reelection by funding government employees salaries, benefits, and even bonuses far beyond what equivalent private industry jobs pay. Then they tap those government employees for large donations to be reelected. 

Thankfully, a large portion of the populace is fed up with their constitutional rights being infringed and will not put up with it. 

[Hotone + 412]

6 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

No other countries have turned into China.  Just watched these vlogs out from China. Life seems to be back to normal. 

 

Surveillance state in China:

PS: Life is bad where I am in Malaysia.  We just had our lockdown extended for another 2 weeks, with no end in sight.  In my country, we have so many illegal, undocumented immigrants and porous borders, that it may never be possible to bring this pandemic under control.

Edited April 23, 2020 by Hotone

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

(My comment 2 of 2)  (Copied from elsewhere.  Amusing but mostly true.)

=============================================================

Can we get an accurate timeline of what's even happening in the world right now?

>2020 starts off with a bang, WW3 almost happens

>virus memes out in china, reports are that it's bad to horrendous

>starts happening in the west with most countries going into pseudo-martial law

>media and left going into a tailspin trying to have this be the end of the world

>turns out it's a meme virus akin to the flu and the media is overplaying the f*ck out of it for raisins

>Trump declares national emergency and gets wartime powers

>largest military operation happening in europe (Defend Europe 2020) since the cold war ended

>million+ troops stationed across American soil, Trump now saying he's going to bring out all stops to end the "Invisible enemy"

>now he's flying out Blue Angels and other aircraft for moral reasons (now we'll regularly be seeing aircraft in the sky and this is the cover story)

>globalism in freefall around the world with nationalism on the rise, governments around the world being shown for what they are, protection for the elite

>celebs and other political elite acting really really abnormal through the entire thing to say the least, even the sleepiest of normies are waking

>Trump seized the Federal Reserve something that Andrew Jackson would have loved and something that got Abe Lincoln and JFK assassinated for even mentioning

>he now signed an EO going around congress to issue money during the crisis giving him control of all the money and where it can be sent

>Gates, Wuhan, Microsoft, WHO all confirmed rumored to be hacked within the last 24 hours

>now confirmed rumors of wikileaks releasing all their documents

>all happening around the announcement of a new chan which may or may not be a honeypot (unconfirmed but suspicious indeed)

Are we in the heart of the start of something big here?

What's going to happen in these next couple of days, it seems like it's going to be huge honestly. Like HUGE.

What's going to happen??

===================================================

 

We are in the midst of a great propaganda war. Who are the players and what are they fighting for.

President Trump, conservatives, libertarians, small businessmen, hard working employees.

The CCP, XI, communist and socialist front groups, Democrats, globalists, large media corporations including Facebook, Twitter, Netflix, Google, Disney, most educators, Bill Gates, newspapers, magazines, NBC, ABC, CBS, BBC, Hollywood, The European Union, large corporations with ties to China, almost all large foundations, greens, The United Nations, billionaires, that will live large no matter what happens. etc. 

Gee, this looks kind of lopsided doesn't it. That is because it is. 

Why are we in this situation? It is because President Donald J. Trump won the electoral college with a majority of states, because of the way our founding fathers wrote the Constitution to protect states rights and rural people. 

We have less than 200 days to find out if President Trump will win a second term and protect us from globalism for at least another four years.

Here is my topic on Globalism AKA One World Government

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k8kNhtZJLuN66TpDuo67WBV1U2JhhZIvAefxeMNK0ls/edit#