The Blind Leading the Blind

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 5/1/2020 at 3:20 PM, Valerie Williams said:

I agree with this. Joking or not. We don't know enough about this illness. I'm very alert right now to what may develop from the lung abnormality findings. We've seen recently that even asymptomatic cases of exposure present with COVID-19 type lung damage in CT scans.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30086-4/fulltext

And that the lung damage may be irreversible.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/coronavirus-symptoms-covid19-causes-irreversible-lung-damage/news-story/5ec307aeac0203d752135ef3ec152fe6

In the case of dengue fever, some people have mild, or at least, recoverable illness. However, upon the 2nd infection, it is deadly. Likewise COVID-19 could possibly set us up with damaged lungs incapable of surviving the next "COVID season".

And to Wombat, per earlier comments, this is another reason why I'm not so excited about the herd immunity idea.

I think it is not reasonable to take the risk on purpose. But it is much less of a risk with simple mask and gloves when you are in a high density situation in public or enclosed spaces. If those did the job for 3500 some medical staff at Wuhan's central hospital where only 3.7-3.9% of medical staff had antibodies to the virus, Then it should be entirely possible to open up the economy and let people choose to wear masks and gloves. Even dual layer masks (dense knit cotton and external woven shell - with or without a paper filter) will reduce both chances of exposure and initial viral load. 

That should have been the way to go from the start. Work from home when possible. masks and gloves in public, Apply social distancing for large gatherings and avoid prolonged times in enclosed spaces lacking active ventilation and filtration. That till we know enough about the virus' long term effects. 

But all of these avoidances of exposure are really a very bad idea for something that is not so deadly. We need to have broad exposure to pathogens in order to keep our immune system working. Without this exposure, it loses its resilience and puts us at risk of lacking immunity for the daily viruses we would normally be exchanging among ourselves.

It is a lose lose set of options.

The glassy CT is a result of heme poisoning from the virus taking apart the hemoglobin and stealing the porphyrin to use to attach to the cell, at least that is the most reasonable explanation I got so far. I don't know what tissue analysis shows. Should look it up but haven't so far. 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

“That is because I am one of just 5 physicists left on the planet that actually understand Einstein's law of gravity...”

Talk about ARROGANCE! As Clint Eastwood once said, ‘You are a legend in your own mind’.

Why do you bother posting on a site apparently peopled by idiots?

[Rob Plant + 2,610]

Just seen this

It sounds like a game changer in the Covid-19 fight

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-scientists-hail-groundbreaking-discovery-of-antibody-which-prevents-infection-11982809

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Deleted

 

Edited May 4, 2020 by Dan Warnick
Rude reflection based on arrogant statement. Deleted.

[Valerie Williams + 129]

9 hours ago, Wombat said:

Ha Ha, as a physicist I know the difference between a law of physics and a theory, or hypothesis. Newton's "law" of gravity should be downgraded to "approximation of gravity', because it is incomplete. Einstein's "theory of gravity" should be called "Einsteins LAW of gravity" by now, but is not! You know why? Because most Physicists too stupid to understand it. Actually, there are two interpretations of Einstein's General Theory of Relativity, one that proposes gravity waves, one that doesn't. I am of the camp that does not believe the gravity wave theory. That is because I am one of just 5 physicists left on the planet that actually understand Einstein's law of gravity. U may have heard in the media that Physicists have "detected" gravity waves about 55 times now. This is BS. The "Ice Cube" expt in Antarctica turned out to "detect" nothing but cosmic dust, and all the laser interferometry detections are false positives too. How do I know? Well, just so happens there is a satellite called "Gravity probe B" which is much more sensitive than the lasers (and would detect "rotational" effect of HYPOTHETICAL gravity waves as well), not one detected. Indeed, if a so-called gravity wave had passed the Earth, ALL detectors would pick up the signal at the same time. I can guarantee this will never happen Valerie. The point? Humans are human. They have vested interests. If top physicists can lie to the world for 30 years about the true nature of the most important scientific discovery in history, then how do we expect to get truth on origin of corona-virus? Not having a go at you Valerie, on the contrary, I am providing this information because you alone on this site have the brains to understand it. No point sending this message to DG56

Good Lord, what have I stepped in? I'm sorry, I didn't see your CV in your profile. I thought I had offended you, so I overexplained myself, apparently. Why else would you ask?:

On 5/3/2020 at 8:51 AM, Wombat said:

Do you have a better hypotheses?

See, this is what happens when I try to be nice. If someone comes along later and says, "that Valerie is so mean," well, you all can bear witness to what happened.

 

 

Here lies Valerie. She tried to be nice.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Valerie Williams

[Dg56 + 16]

7 hours ago, Wombat said:

Not having a go at you Valerie, on the contrary, I am providing this information because you alone on this site have the brains to understand it.

No point sending this message to DG56

Hi Wombat, 

I feel utterly privileged to know one of the five physicists (5!) who actually understand the law of gravity.  

And in total honesty, I don't get what you are saying re. Gravity. I am humble (wise?) and shut up when I am ignorant on a particular topic. 

Good news is, small gaterings will be ok during opening up. And you won't have to wait long before the next global congress of the "Five True Physicists Who Actually Understand Gravity". 

Let us know if/when you make any breakthrough. Looking forward. 

[Dg56 + 16]

On 5/2/2020 at 12:39 AM, Valerie Williams said:

Someone came into their home during the night and shot all four of them in the head while they slept. No one heard anything. This was about 8 years ago. 

 Hi Valerie, 

Could you please provide some news reference to that killing?

(4 chinese people killed, in the dead of night and for no apparent motive, sure that would have left local news searching for answers)

A similar incident happened in Australia (a chinese family of 5, bludgeoned to deaths). The motive was a family dispute about a newspaper outlet... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_family_murders 

Thanks for providing a link to any news story that relates to the incident in the US you informed us about.

That will help keep all of us rational (vs. hysterical, as mentionned in your post).

Thank you for that, in advance. 

 

[Valerie Williams + 129]

28 minutes ago, Dg56 said:

 Hi Valerie, 

Could you please provide some news reference to that killing?

(4 chinese people killed, in the dead of night and for no apparent motive, sure that would have left local news searching for answers)

A similar incident happened in Australia (a chinese family of 5, bludgeoned to deaths). The motive was a family dispute about a newspaper outlet... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_family_murders 

Thanks for providing a link to any news story that relates to the incident in the US you informed us about.

That will help keep all of us rational (vs. hysterical, as mentionned in your post).

Thank you for that, in advance. 

 

It was definitely in the news. While I understand the need for citations, if I post the exact incident I'm referencing, everyone reading this could figure out exactly where I live. I probably said too much already, but the only thing that saves my thin veil of anonymity is that there were several like murders all over the country in the same time frame. I think I heard about at least one in Australia, as well.

It had to do with corporate espionage, China's accumulation of foreign assets, and what appears to be an internal power struggle in the Chinese government that was explained as a "corruption investigation". It seems lots of families living outside of China were connected to a highly placed Chinese government official named Zhou Yongkang.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150505000080&cid=1101

Yeah, and that "family dispute" story is BS. Upon looking that up, that one you're referencing is also part of what I'm describing above.

Edited May 4, 2020 by Valerie Williams

[Dg56 + 16]

11 minutes ago, Valerie Williams said:

It was definitely in the news. While I understand the need for citations, if I post the exact incident I'm referencing, everyone reading this could figure out exactly where I live. I probably said too much already, but the only thing that saves my thin veil of anonymity is that there were several like murders all over the country in the same time frame. I think I heard about at least one in Australia, as well.

It had to do with corporate espionage, China's accumulation of foreign assets, and what appears to be an internal power struggle in the Chinese government that was explained as a "corruption investigation". It seems lots of families living outside of China were connected to a highly placed Chinese government official named Zhou Yongkang.

http://www.wantchinatimes.com/news-subclass-cnt.aspx?id=20150505000080&cid=1101

Yeah, and that "family dispute" story is BS. Upon looking that up, that one you're referencing is also part of what I'm describing above.

HI " Valerie",  

Based on::

1. The link does not work, how bizarre? 

2. Wantchinatimes is a BS website. 

3. You are unable to provide a valid US link to your "news" story. Your story is dicredited, right away.

4. Your earlier smooth talk doesn't cut through. (noticed how you get bitchy all of a sudden? ) 

Conclusion: You sound too much like...  

BUSTED!!! 

CCP, here we come! 

All the best to you in the near future. 

You are welcome.

BUSTED!!!!

[0R0 + 6,251]

https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/cpt.1856

There is more dose optimization to do to make the HCQ/Z treatment more effective without it being more dangerous. Building up to a drug loading that is highly effective takes too long with the traditional dosing taken from rheumatic treatments. So they are working out how to front load the drug administration without triggering heart pattern disruptions. 

There is a clear EC50 and EC90 level to the drug, which takes upwards of 6 days to reach under Dr Raoult's dosing scheme. Higher initial doses are needed to accelerate the blood level accumulation and get to the high lethality range against the virus. 

The pharmakineticists and doctors are attempting to define a range of dosage regimes that are high enough to gain effective levels in a shorter time frame while not reaching doses that can trigger dangerous coronary problems. The window for the dosage is narrow but well above Dr. Raoult's protocol. 

"clinical studies using HCQ for SARS-CoV-2 were pooled to quantify

the relationship between HCQ PK and SARS-CoV-2 viral decline in patients with COVID-19. We

predicted that higher HCQ daily doses (e.g. as high as 800 mg BID), were associated with rapid

rates of viral decline and increased the percentage of PCR negative patients but could result in

increased risk of QTc prolongation. Regimens which give approximately 800 mg/day either loaded

upfront, or as 400 mg BID, could be safely tolerated and would reduce the time with a detectable

SARS-CoV-2 viral load, and thus, improve treatment outcomes. Higher HCQ doses of up to 800 mg 

BID could result in even faster rates of viral decline but there is limited safety information for these

high doses.

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

7 minutes ago, Dg56 said:

HI " Valerie",  

Based on::

1. The link does not work, how bizarre? 

2. Wantchinatimes is a BS website. 

3. You are unable to provide a valid US link to your "news" story. Your story is dicredited, right away.

4. Your earlier smooth talk doesn't cut through. (noticed how you get bitchy all of a sudden? ) 

Conclusion: You sound too much like...  

BUSTED!!! 

CCP, here we come! 

All the best to you in the near future. 

You are welcome.

BUSTED!!!!

How about you actually look for some info yourself.

Here is an official trial and group execution in one case of Yonkang's powerful group being taken down. Being lower ranking does not mean that you don't get executed. It only means that you don't get a trial. 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1708082/chinese-mining-tycoon-liu-han-linked-zhou-yongkang-executed

Other stories including a coup plot of sorts against the Xi leadership will pop up. Valerie does not owe you disclosure of her personal information to confirm a story that is documented in multiple incidents at the same time. 

The only one busted is you. 

[Dg56 + 16]

3 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

How about you actually look for some info yourself.

Here is an official trial and group execution in one case of Yonkang's powerful group being taken down. Being lower ranking does not mean that you don't get executed. It only means that you don't get a trial. 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1708082/chinese-mining-tycoon-liu-han-linked-zhou-yongkang-executed

Other stories including a coup plot of sorts against the Xi leadership will pop up. Valerie does not owe you disclosure of her personal information to confirm a story that is documented in multiple incidents at the same time. 

The only one busted is you. 

HI 0r0, 

BUSTED!!!

Based on: 

1. No info supporting "Valerie's" news about 4 chinese people murdered in her US neighbourhood. 

2. The cover you provide to "valerie" doesn't make sens (a link to hard-line pro-CCP website scmp.com), unrelated to the matters at hand. 

3. Your responsiveness at helping "Valerie". 

Conclusion : You sound too much like... CCP... 

DOUBLE - BUSTED!!!

[surrept33 + 609]

27 minutes ago, Dg56 said:

HI 0r0, 

BUSTED!!!

Based on: 

1. No info supporting "Valerie's" news about 4 chinese people murdered in her US neighbourhood. 

2. The cover you provide to "valerie" doesn't make sens (a link to hard-line pro-CCP website scmp.com), unrelated to the matters at hand. 

3. Your responsiveness at helping "Valerie". 

Conclusion : You sound too much like... CCP... 

DOUBLE - BUSTED!!!

I wouldn't say that the South China Morning Post is hardline pro-CCP. They're owned by alibaba so they do sometimes, like a lot of entities in Hong Kong, have to tread carefully in the Xi era.

They do report on a lot of stuff that wouldn't be on the mainland:

e.g, the plight of the uygurs reeducation camps

https://www.scmp.com/topics/xinjiang

[Valerie Williams + 129]

1 hour ago, Dg56 said:

HI " Valerie",  

Based on::

1. The link does not work, how bizarre? 

2. Wantchinatimes is a BS website. 

3. You are unable to provide a valid US link to your "news" story. Your story is dicredited, right away.

4. Your earlier smooth talk doesn't cut through. (noticed how you get bitchy all of a sudden? ) 

Conclusion: You sound too much like...  

BUSTED!!! 

CCP, here we come! 

All the best to you in the near future. 

You are welcome.

BUSTED!!!!

Wow. You are very clever, indeed. Oh, how you've found me out! Why did you tell everyone? Huh! I had them all fooled. If you had just waited, I could have completed my plan for forum domination. DRATS! FOILED AGAIN!

Dg56, it's not "bitchy", it's a sense of humor. You should get one.

[Valerie Williams + 129]

37 minutes ago, Dg56 said:

HI 0r0, 

BUSTED!!!

Based on: 

1. No info supporting "Valerie's" news about 4 chinese people murdered in her US neighbourhood. 

2. The cover you provide to "valerie" doesn't make sens (a link to hard-line pro-CCP website scmp.com), unrelated to the matters at hand. 

3. Your responsiveness at helping "Valerie". 

Conclusion : You sound too much like... CCP... 

DOUBLE - BUSTED!!!

Goodness, just search the name I gave you.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/chinas-corruption-purge-the-fall-of-zhou-yongkang

Edited May 4, 2020 by Valerie Williams

[Valerie Williams + 129]

4 hours ago, 0R0 said:

How about you actually look for some info yourself.

Here is an official trial and group execution in one case of Yonkang's powerful group being taken down. Being lower ranking does not mean that you don't get executed. It only means that you don't get a trial. 

https://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1708082/chinese-mining-tycoon-liu-han-linked-zhou-yongkang-executed

Other stories including a coup plot of sorts against the Xi leadership will pop up. Valerie does not owe you disclosure of her personal information to confirm a story that is documented in multiple incidents at the same time. 

The only one busted is you. 

Thank you. I had that other link I offered earlier in a file I keep of information I've gathered on the topic, and I chose that one because it wouldn't identify anything particular to my location, plus it was from the Chinese perspective on the political drama going on there. Of course, what they say was going on might be very different from what was actually going on.

The link didn't work for me as well today, but since I was at work, I thought the reason was the corporate filter. There is a lot of information on the name I offered, though, as you obviously know.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Valerie Williams

[Valerie Williams + 129]

15 hours ago, 0R0 said:

19The glassy CT is a result of heme poisoning from the virus taking apart the hemoglobin and stealing the porphyrin to use to attach to the cell, at least that is the most reasonable explanation I got so far. I don't know what tissue analysis shows. Should look it up but haven't so far. 

I don't know what your background is, but you seem to know what you're talking about. The lung damage was described as irreversible. I would be interested to know if that means forever, or if we can hope that there will be remedies as health professionals learn more about how this disease affects the body? Does the lung damage mean that every time a person contracts COVID-19, they will accumulate more and more damage?

15 hours ago, 0R0 said:

That should have been the way to go from the start. Work from home when possible. masks and gloves in public, Apply social distancing for large gatherings and avoid prolonged times in enclosed spaces lacking active ventilation and filtration. That till we know enough about the virus' long term effects.

Yes! Agreed.

I'm concerned about mitigating the risk and also keeping the numbers down to manageable levels for the health system, but I think in the future we'll regret a lot of the restrictions we put on ourselves and each other. No judgement from me; it's understandable that we didn't know what was coming and hindsight is 20/20, but it's amazing how easy it is to destroy an economy and especially the food supply that we're starting to hear warnings of doom about. I still can't figure out the toilet paper shortage.

The truly idiotic part is closing the parks, beaches and other outdoor spaces. Wouldn't fresh air and sunshine be just the thing we need right now? I'm watching the police crack down on California beaches, and I think they are nuts. Things are looser in my state. We're more libertarian, so outdoor activities were never discouraged, and we kept our small locally-owned restaurants from going out of business by ordering food for curbside pickup or delivery. Delivery driving and grocery shopping services have provided a lot of stop-gap jobs for people who were laid off. Nobody is protesting around here, either. I wonder why; could be because the politicians here aren't trying to keep us from living relatively normal lives. Our infection rate is also very low.

Edited May 5, 2020 by Valerie Williams

[Valerie Williams + 129]

5 hours ago, 0R0 said:

https://ascpt.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1002/cpt.1856

There is more dose optimization to do to make the HCQ/Z treatment more effective without it being more dangerous. Building up to a drug loading that is highly effective takes too long with the traditional dosing taken from rheumatic treatments. So they are working out how to front load the drug administration without triggering heart pattern disruptions. 

There is a clear EC50 and EC90 level to the drug, which takes upwards of 6 days to reach under Dr Raoult's dosing scheme. Higher initial doses are needed to accelerate the blood level accumulation and get to the high lethality range against the virus. 

The pharmakineticists and doctors are attempting to define a range of dosage regimes that are high enough to gain effective levels in a shorter time frame while not reaching doses that can trigger dangerous coronary problems. The window for the dosage is narrow but well above Dr. Raoult's protocol. 

"clinical studies using HCQ for SARS-CoV-2 were pooled to quantify

the relationship between HCQ PK and SARS-CoV-2 viral decline in patients with COVID-19. We

predicted that higher HCQ daily doses (e.g. as high as 800 mg BID), were associated with rapid

rates of viral decline and increased the percentage of PCR negative patients but could result in

increased risk of QTc prolongation. Regimens which give approximately 800 mg/day either loaded

upfront, or as 400 mg BID, could be safely tolerated and would reduce the time with a detectable

SARS-CoV-2 viral load, and thus, improve treatment outcomes. Higher HCQ doses of up to 800 mg 

BID could result in even faster rates of viral decline but there is limited safety information for these

high doses.

 

Down to my level: Can I infer from this, that although we have already been using hydroxychloroquine in malaria and rheumatic treatments, it takes time to teach the body to tolerate the levels of the drug needed without causing heart problems? Are the heart problems reported in the news the result of trying to accelerate this acclimation to the drug because the COVID-19 onset is more rapid?

Does the COVID-19 treatment require higher levels of hydroxychloroquine than previous types of treatments have used?

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 hours ago, Dg56 said:

HI 0r0, 

BUSTED!!!

Based on: 

1. No info supporting "Valerie's" news about 4 chinese people murdered in her US neighbourhood. 

2. The cover you provide to "valerie" doesn't make sens (a link to hard-line pro-CCP website scmp.com), unrelated to the matters at hand. 

3. Your responsiveness at helping "Valerie". 

Conclusion : You sound too much like... CCP... 

DOUBLE - BUSTED!!!

Busted?  Double Busted?  You took a casual, friendly conversation and went...where, exactly?  Most sites don't allow personal attacks.  So what, exactly, is your goal in all of this?  @0R0 is a respected member and @Valerie Williams has not said anything disrespectful.  You on the other hand are playing "Gotcha!".  Why are you here?

[Valerie Williams + 129]

5 hours ago, Dg56 said:

6 hours ago, Valerie Williams said:

Yeah, and that "family dispute" story is BS. Upon looking that up, that one you're referencing is also part of what I'm describing above.

 

4. Your earlier smooth talk doesn't cut through. (noticed how you get bitchy all of a sudden? ) 

Is that sentence from me what set you off? I'm having a hard time with why you went on the attack, so maybe this is it. Referring to the "family dispute" story as being BS, I was referring to the story being what you would get from something reported, but was a cover story. But maybe I am wrong about the Australian story.

I didn't mean to imply that YOU were giving a BS story. I had more of the attitude of you and I both being fed a BS story, not that YOUR story was BS. Does that help? Trying to build a bridge here.

[Valerie Williams + 129]

Article of interest:

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-us-outsourced-bat-virus-research-to-wuhan/

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

29 minutes ago, Valerie Williams said:

Article of interest:

https://blogs.timesofisrael.com/why-us-outsourced-bat-virus-research-to-wuhan/

That article raises serious issues and questions.  Thanks for sharing.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

19 hours ago, Dg56 said:

HI 0r0, 

BUSTED!!!

Based on: 

1. No info supporting "Valerie's" news about 4 chinese people murdered in her US neighbourhood. 

2. The cover you provide to "valerie" doesn't make sens (a link to hard-line pro-CCP website scmp.com), unrelated to the matters at hand. 

3. Your responsiveness at helping "Valerie". 

Conclusion : You sound too much like... CCP... 

DOUBLE - BUSTED!!!

@Dg56 calling @0R0 a CCP agent on this forum is ludicrous. 

And you are pushing back way too hard against @Valerie Williams not quite sure why.

You are new here and causing trouble for no apparent reason.

This forum is not a game of 'gotcha'.

Please play nice with others here.

[Valerie Williams + 129]

What the heck. I'm going to share it.

Of particular interest to folks on Oilprice.com, is what was Maoye Sun up to?

======================================================================================

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_family_murders

July 2009 - in New South Wales

All beaten with hammer

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/13/unsolved-diberville-triple-slaying-featured-in-fbi/

https://amwfans.com/thread/1658/diberville-triple-homicide-mississippi-2011

Dec 2011

All Stabbed

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Six-months-after-Cypress-family-slain-wary-5655567.php

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sheriff-to-killer-i-want-memory-of-murders-to-give-you-ulcers/

Jan 2014

All shot in head

 

https://www.kxan.com/news/kxan-unsolved-inside-the-grace-chen-murder-case/

Feb 2014

Undisclosed murder method

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_family_homicides

Oct 2014

All Beaten with hammer and stabbed (hammer - like the Lin family?)

 

**********************************************************************

 

Zhou Yongkang

-in australia

November 10th, 2008, in New South Wales (notable date and location to Lin family murders)

http://www.clearharmony.net/articles/a46836-Australia-Falun-Gong-Practitioners-Urge-Deportation-of-Zhou-Yongkang-in-Letter-to-Opposition-Leader.html#.XrGueMGSlaQ

 

-in US

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-12/zhou-yongkang-chinese-oil-boss-who-became-a-security-tsar/6540304

https://asamnews.com/2014/04/01/epoch-times-report-murder-of-chinese-american-family-of-four-linked-to-chinese-security-official/

https://www.theepochtimes.com/did-chinas-former-security-chief-order-the-murder-of-a-family-in-the-us_1348092.html

Edited May 5, 2020 by Valerie Williams

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

8 hours ago, Valerie Williams said:

What the heck. I'm going to share it.

Of particular interest to folks on Oilprice.com, is what was Maoye Sun up to?

======================================================================================

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lin_family_murders

July 2009 - in New South Wales

All beaten with hammer

 

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/mar/13/unsolved-diberville-triple-slaying-featured-in-fbi/

https://amwfans.com/thread/1658/diberville-triple-homicide-mississippi-2011

Dec 2011

All Stabbed

 

https://www.houstonchronicle.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Six-months-after-Cypress-family-slain-wary-5655567.php

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sheriff-to-killer-i-want-memory-of-murders-to-give-you-ulcers/

Jan 2014

All shot in head

 

https://www.kxan.com/news/kxan-unsolved-inside-the-grace-chen-murder-case/

Feb 2014

Undisclosed murder method

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chen_family_homicides

Oct 2014

All Beaten with hammer and stabbed (hammer - like the Lin family?)

 

**********************************************************************

 

Zhou Yongkang

-in australia

November 10th, 2008, in New South Wales (notable date and location to Lin family murders)

http://www.clearharmony.net/articles/a46836-Australia-Falun-Gong-Practitioners-Urge-Deportation-of-Zhou-Yongkang-in-Letter-to-Opposition-Leader.html#.XrGueMGSlaQ

 

-in US

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-12/zhou-yongkang-chinese-oil-boss-who-became-a-security-tsar/6540304

https://asamnews.com/2014/04/01/epoch-times-report-murder-of-chinese-american-family-of-four-linked-to-chinese-security-official/

https://www.theepochtimes.com/did-chinas-former-security-chief-order-the-murder-of-a-family-in-the-us_1348092.html

And then there is this...look at the nature of his work...

 

https://news.google.com/stories/CAAqOQgKIjNDQklTSURvSmMzUnZjbmt0TXpZd1NoTUtFUWlCOHFiV2o0QU1FWVh1QmUyVkJqRzJLQUFQAQ?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen