Corona Virus Truths

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

LDS - Lockdown Derangement Syndrome

An irrational insistence to lock down the world in order to kill 90% of economies and totally destroy countries, so globalist entities such as UN and WHO can come to the Socialism "rescue".

Venezuela for the whole world.

All due to a disease with a fatality rate between 1/10th of 1% to 1%.

Insanity.

LDS addicts can bow down and worship their CNN God.

I'm outta here for the day.

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 minute ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

Good point.  Every country in the world except for the US quickly adopted WHO test. 

In any case, some graphs for various countries from the first page. 

Do you have one for countries with no lockdowns, like Japan?

My point is that the disease is very contagious in dense populations, but is not a big threat to normal healthy individuals, under 75. So it is entirely absurd to have a lockdown to PREVENT widespread immunity. If the "experts" were something other than political hacks and hand picked panic mongers for the media, then they would have suggested a quarantine for the high risk population, not the healthy.

The only substantive difference between this virus and others with deadly results that pass through each year, is that nobody has residual resistance transmitted from other viruses like it, because this one is a first. So while a flu normally  hits 20-30% of people and a cold hits 45-51% of people exposed, this one (as shown in prison outbreaks) hits EVERYONE exposed. You can dream of vaccines all you want, but the similar SARS has none 18 years later, cold viruses don't either, flu vaccines only protect you if the vaccine makers chose the right strains. But raises your susceptibility to cold coronaviruses.  

Note that if you look at the stats and remove the cases of comorbidities then 92% of the CV19 deaths disappear. 

[Geoff Guenther + 317]

6 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

 

10 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

8 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

As new data becomes available, we need to now adjust what we are doing as a species.  If there is a "second wave", we should not allow another lockdown, based on the data now available.  I'm still okay with the first lockdown, because we didn't have the data then.

According to worldometers.info from January 1 to April 1, 2020 the worldwide deaths from COVID-19 were 46,438 as opposed to 121,993 for influenza. To recap, during the same three months, with the same social distancing, the same shelter in place, and even handicapped with a vaccine against it, the flu still killed more than two and a half times as many people as COVID-19.

Absolutely.

If anything, we should lock away the ill and the octogenarians for 2-3 weeks, and all go to a CV19  party to kiss each other, get it over with and get back to work. (kissing party is a joke, going to work is seriously NECESSARY to avoid further deaths)

So the problem with this data point is that COVID 19 didn't start killing large numbers until mid-March. 

Going back into the same source, Worldometer, it shows that less than 1,781 people died yesterday of the flu, in comparison to 3,751 who died of coronavirus. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

5 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

As you know, from the beginning I've been after governments, particularly the clowns we take for Tories, for refusing to take this seriously and putting us in a position where we ended up in a lockdown. This lockdown is because of ineptitude, not because anyone wanted it.

That being said, the seven days to 10th of April, we had 8,000 excess deaths in the UK. The following 7 days it will be worse. That gives us 34,750 excess deaths per month in a week where deaths we still accelerating. The only reason it's not worse is because we locked down in March.

The UK is in an even worse state than the US in that we still can't get people tested here and there are claims that the tests we do have are substandard. The government hasn't put any effort into test, trace and isolate. No plan has been put forward about how to open the country up without killing thousands more people. You can trust Piers Morgan on that one.

Not at all. The reason you have so many CV19 deaths is because you did not quarantine those susceptible, but instead quarantined everyone else. 

Why do you expect deaths to rise further? They come off after the peak, 

If you take out the comorbidity deaths, then that peak was approximately 100 cases a day.

Did You have doctors send notices to their susceptible patients to sequester themselves while the disease runs through? No. Nobody did. Yet that is the only rational choice.

We shall see how the stats of the prison outbreaks progress now that they were tested. 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

51 minutes ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

Good point.  Every country in the world except for the US quickly adopted WHO test. 

In any case, some graphs for various countries from the first page. 

I can give you this as well, from @Geoff Guenther

It is older data, but I want to see more in other countries, Denmark, Portuguese seems not too bad... Why we don't have Germany in these graphs? Is it not a good data point?

What WHO tests are you mentioning? The one with 30% accuracy from China rejected by UK, Czech, Spain and Philippine?

We can play the data game forever, deaths per 1 M, US is still far behind Spain,Italy, France, UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium.. etc. So why should you complain? 

In Vietnam, we don't have much people die out of Covid even we didn't have much lock down measure (people are too poor for lock down) , they even enjoy a full Chinese New Year while Wuhan locked down etc. and we share border with China, we still have flights from Wuhan for traveling after Wuhan locked down, all of my friends in industrial districts are working. 

NZ locked down after UK 2 days and seems fine so far, no community spread yet and plan to open soon. Why have to do the cherry picking? 

Edited April 28, 2020 by SUZNV

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 minutes ago, Geoff Guenther said:

So the problem with this data point is that COVID 19 didn't start killing large numbers until mid-March. 

Going back into the same source, Worldometer, it shows that less than 1,781 people died yesterday of the flu, in comparison to 3,751 who died of coronavirus. 

You couldn't have had more cases earlier, because people were not infected yet. 

Similarly, your "new cases" are simply tests, not clinical diagnoses. So for several weeks, people will continue to test positive after not having had symptoms for a long while, if any symptoms at all. Then if they die of any cause at all at the hospital, this will show up as a coronavirus death. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

19 minutes ago, SUZNV said:

I can give you this as well, from @Geoff Guenther

It is older data, but I want to see more in other countries, Denmark, Portuguese seems not too bad... Why we don't have Germany in these graphs? Is it not a good data point?

What WHO tests are you mentioning? They one with 30% accuracy from China rejected by UK, Czech, Spain and Philippine?

We can play the data game forever, deaths per 1 M, US is still far behind Spain,Italy, France, UK, Sweden, Netherlands, Belgium.. etc. So why should you complain? 

In Vietnam, we don't have much people die out of Covid even we didn't have much lock down measure (people are too poor for lock down) , they even enjoy a full Chinese New Year while Wuhan locked down etc. and we share border with China, we still have flights from Wuhan for traveling after Wuhan locked down, all of my friends in industrial districts are working. 

NZ locked down after UK 2 days and seems fine so far, no community spread yet and plan to open soon. Why have to do the cherry picking? 

This is another issue, the susceptible population in many poor countries do not survive to be killed by this virus, they die of other things. For the life of me I have no idea why India went on lockdown, they shut down the economy in order to protect the 1.9% of the population in  the high risk octogenarian group? 1.9% of the population?

 

Edited April 27, 2020 by 0R0

[SUZNV + 1,197]

Nothing much. Miscalculation. 

Edited April 28, 2020 by SUZNV
I made mistake.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

31 minutes ago, Geoff Guenther said:

We certainly did over-build. Especially since they couldn't staff those hospitals anyway. That's a less expensive mistake, though, than the original herd immunity call and letting Cheltenham go ahead. 

The government's started strategy switched from flatten the curve to containment in mid-March because of the Imperial College report. So the question still stands - what is the government going to put in place so that when we reopen we don't end up with thousands more dead?

Btw, if they had implemented a lockdown 2 weeks earlier we would have had 10x fewer cases and could probably have kept many more services open. At the moment we'reat the mercy of the government to get enough into place to keep the pandemic under control. 

 

Would you have agreed to a ban on flights coming into the UK as early as Feb or even earlier?

This is what I thought would have been sensible..."pubs closed borders open" how does that work?

[SUZNV + 1,197]

11 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

This is another issue, the susceptible population in many poor countries do not survive to be killed by this virus, they die of other things. For the life of me I have no idea why India went on lockdown, they shut down the economy in order to protect the 1% of the population in  the high risk octogenarian group? 1.9% of the population?

 

Many people may die because of  famine with these kind of decision, along with economy depression. 

If this were a world war in Europe, wouldn't we still need to go farming and manufacturing, despised of regular bombing? Why should economical war be different if both for resources gain, economical strength and power, world influence? Half of the war is weighted on the supply and interrupt enemy's supply.

Edited April 27, 2020 by SUZNV

[surrept33 + 609]

1 hour ago, El Nikko said:

Would you kindly present your 'graph' over a wider range of data...say the last 50 or 100 years?

Maybe the authors are hiding other bumps and blips along the way

Last 20 years, from a NYT article from early April.

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

6 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

The UK is in an even worse state than the US in that we still can't get people tested here and there are claims that the tests we do have are substandard. The government hasn't put any effort into test, trace and isolate. No plan has been put forward about how to open the country up without killing thousands more people. You can trust Piers Morgan on that one.

From what we know now. UK has missed the boat on containment and must pursue herd immunity, while tightly protecting the high susceptibility group from further infections. Meaning help the ill quarantine themselves vs. quarantine everybody regardless of condition. Most of us, we now know, get nothing at all. Most of the rest get very light symptoms, and the rest that are in the at high risk group are also at risk from flu, from colds turning into pneumonias, from cuts turning into sepsis and from any other stresses that would push them over the edge. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

9 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

To provide some commentary on some of his points that I find misleading:

Technically this is true. In practice, though, only 10-12% of people get influenza every year because so many have immunity or are immunized each year. If COVID-19 were to run amok, it's expected that around 50% of people would come down with it.

This is definitely untrue. Death rates are much higher than with the flu. Total deaths in the UK for the week ending 10 April were 18,516 compared to 10,520 for the same week in a typical year.

I think the comparison here is to a disease like SARS or Ebola. Both the flu and COVID-19 are infectious prior to symptoms, allowing them to spread more easily.

Opinion, unless research is stated showing this to be the case.

Opinion as well. Where we can point out weeks of Trump spouting nonsense on COVID-19, the media has taken numerous sides on this - generally they have relied on scientists more than politicians and pundits, which is the right thing to do in a case like this.

The media will continue to quote scientists and report what is actually happening. Initial models for the 2.2 million were for if the government did nothing. Changes in models outputs happen when you change the inputs due to interventions, such as this current lockdown.
One big caveat to this: Imperial College changed a major input when they assumed an infection rate similar to the flu. When they fixed that input it made everything much scarier.
That being said, if the US has similar infection and mortality rates as New York, we can expect:

• NY State population * Infection rate * mortality rate = Total Dead
• 19.5 million * 12% * mortality rate = 22,250 (12% is the suspected infection rate in NY, giving us a mortality rate of 0.95%)
• US population * expected infection rate * mortality rate = expected dead
• 330 million * 50% * 0.95% = 1.57 million dead across the US

1.57 million people dead using more accurate and current figures is not too far off the initial models of 2.2 million.

The countries that didn't shut down their economies were the ones that had test, trace, isolate in place and used additional reduction measures such as face masks - all things that we should have been doing from the beginning and which I don't see us having put in place yet.

Opening without having alternative measures in place is dangerous.

COVID has become a medical crisis in every country where it has hit, including South Korea and Japan. Any crisis that impacts the entire nation is bound to become a political crisis.

In the UK it wasn't the "liberal media" didn't call the government to account, it was the Tories and the right-wing press that rejected their own government's herd-immunity direction.

In the US, the fact that Trump politicized this from the start rather than putting a plan in place has accelerated the political blowback.

Opinion. I believe it to be true as well, but not for the reasons he states. You should be angry at the completely inept management of a manageable crisis that has caused the businesses to close and the complete lack of plans of how to reopen safely.

 

I do expect the disease to peter out over the summer and come back in the autumn. By autumn I hope we have better social distancing and test/trace/isolate in place along with better medical treatments. The messaging so far has been haphazard at best which reduces my confidence that it will happen. Maybe I'll get surprised - I certainly hope so.

Actually, factually, Tom did not say this. A group of doctors did. See the original link.

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

As Dr. Topel noted, South Korea immediately started testing, using the WHO test, along with contact tracing and quarantines.  South Korea has about 240 known COVID-19 deaths.  Adjusted for population differences, in terms of known COVID-19 deaths,  we are currently losing in about 12 hours what South Korea lost over the entire outbreak to date. 

Dr. Eric Topel:  US Betrays Healthcare Workers in Coronavirus Disaster

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927811

 

Excerpt:

 

The first patient in the United States with COVID-19, the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2, was diagnosed in Seattle on January 21*, which was within 24 hours of the first patient diagnosed in South Korea, a key country for comparison (Figure, adapted from Our World in Data).

 

Unlike South Korea, which quickly started testing for COVID-19 using the World Health Organization (WHO) test, the United States refused the WHO test, opting to develop its own through the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). But the CDC test was ultimately found to be flawed and represents one of many government stumbles. Without an adequate test, there were nearly 50 days from the first patients in both countries before the United States started to ramp up testing. Why was this so critically important?

During this extended phase in the United States, there were countless numbers of patients presenting with pneumonia and respiratory tract symptoms to emergency rooms, urgent care centers, and doctors' offices. Without the ability to make the diagnosis of COVID-19 or even suspect it, these patients unwittingly spread their infections to healthcare workers. Also, during this first phase of spread, there was likely — albeit still not yet validated — a high rate (approximately 30%) of asymptomatic carriers for COVID-19, which further amplified the chances for doctors and health professionals to be infected. . . 

The handling of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States will go down as the worst public health disaster in the history of the country. The loss of lives will make 9/11 and so many other catastrophes appear much smaller in their scale of devastation. Perhaps what we in the medical community will remember most is how our country betrayed us at the moment when our efforts were needed most.

 

*We now know there was an earlier case in California

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

3 hours ago, surrept33 said:

Last 20 years, from a NYT article from early April.

 

Note that this monthly chart is consistent with the weekly chart shown below, but it's likely that the monthly data for April will show total deaths of around 20,000.  

[SUZNV + 1,197]

Quote

By early March, after federal officials finally announced changes to expand testing, it was too late. With the early lapses, containment was no longer an option. The tool kit of epidemiology would shift — lockdowns, social disruption, intensive medical treatment — in hopes of mitigating the harm.

Read all , I failed to see how any test can contain no symptom infected person. Any test is useless in the first place. People who went to hospital and test was too late already to contain since he spread the disease on the airplane already, and maybe at the airport, the baggage claims.  You simply cannot test everyone at the airport. The best way to slow down of spreading is wearing masks. That's why every one who cough and go to a clinic receptions always provide mask for free. WHO at that time didn't recommend wearing a mask as it would be easy to touch the face. And mind you China and WHO just confirmed that it could spread person to person in Jan 20, just the same day the first patient in that article . Any testing protocol by WHO was not based on this virus. Korean developed test for themselves. Test from China has 30% of accuracy, fact.

 

57 minutes ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

As Dr. Topel noted, South Korea immediately started testing, using the WHO test, along with contact tracing and quarantines.  South Korea has about 240 known COVID-19 deaths.  Adjusted for population differences, in terms of known COVID-19 deaths,  we are currently losing in about 12 hours what South Korea lost over the entire outbreak to date. 

Dr. Eric Topel:  US Betrays Healthcare Workers in Coronavirus Disaster

https://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/927811

 

Excerpt:

 

The first patient in the United States with COVID-19, the disease caused by SARS-CoV-2, was diagnosed in Seattle on January 21*, which was within 24 hours of the first patient diagnosed in South Korea, a key country for comparison (Figure, adapted from Our World in Data).

 

Unlike South Korea, which quickly started testing for COVID-19 using the World Health Organization (WHO) test, the United States refused the WHO test, opting to develop its own through the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC). But the CDC test was ultimately found to be flawed and represents one of many government stumbles. Without an adequate test, there were nearly 50 days from the first patients in both countries before the United States started to ramp up testing. Why was this so critically important?

During this extended phase in the United States, there were countless numbers of patients presenting with pneumonia and respiratory tract symptoms to emergency rooms, urgent care centers, and doctors' offices. Without the ability to make the diagnosis of COVID-19 or even suspect it, these patients unwittingly spread their infections to healthcare workers. Also, during this first phase of spread, there was likely — albeit still not yet validated — a high rate (approximately 30%) of asymptomatic carriers for COVID-19, which further amplified the chances for doctors and health professionals to be infected. . . 

The handling of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States will go down as the worst public health disaster in the history of the country. The loss of lives will make 9/11 and so many other catastrophes appear much smaller in their scale of devastation. Perhaps what we in the medical community will remember most is how our country betrayed us at the moment when our efforts were needed most.

 

*We now know there was an earlier case in California

Secondly, the first community spreading was found from Cali but how was it compares to NY now? Surely if Trump's CDC failed in Cali, then Cali would take heaviest damage? The first community spreading was from Cali and NY was even after Italy outbreak. Who bought time then?

Thirdly, did you even read the comment? This is one of comment from another doctor

Quote

 

Dr. Albert Kocurek11 days ago

This article is very biased. It doesn't acknowledge the fact that the primary reason that South Korea and others were better prepared was because of having dealt MERS (i.e. Middle Eastern Respiratory Syndrome) in 2015.  As others have pointed out it fails to call out the missteps/lies/and cover-up by China and WHO.  It criticizes the US health system for having to ration masks and for making provisional plans in the event it were to run short of ventilators. There is no recognition that because this is a global problem, that as the virus spread to other countries that it created a global shortage of PPE. It is critical of the US for not having been better prepared, but fails to call acknowledge that a big part of that is because we have moved manufacturing of most PPE to China and since this virus started there and they shut down 1st, it takes time for manufacturing to ramp up elsewhere.
For those insist that this article is not filled with misinformation and bias...how do explain that even though it was only published 16 days ago,  we now know that the numbers of ventilators we will need are available. So this figures in this article were pure speculation. The claim that prior to testing,our hospitals were already filled with infected patients and healthcare workers is not supported by the lack of a measurable uptick in hospital admission. Instead, it is far more likely that the respiratory infections in the midst of the flue season, were flue related.

One would think that if nothing else, this pandemic revealed weaknesses in farming out industry to the other side of the world. It also reveals the weakness of bureaucracy. 
Unfortunately, it is impossible to reason with those who hate this country and the "hate Trumpers". They blame Trump for every mistake made by the government, yet at the same time want to place more and more control in the hands of bureaucracy. They make excuses and rationalizations for missteps that occur in other countries...and go on to tout the healthcare systems everywhere else...even when they have 3 times the mortality of the US.

Sure, mistakes were made, and we could have certainly been better prepared...but to expect that any country could be fully prepared for every pandemic is unrealistic.
Finally, as of now, we are only at 26,708 deaths. when one considers that the Spanish Flue was believed to been responsible for over 600,000 deaths in the US, thus far, this pals in comparison. It is far to early to make claims such as  "The handling of the COVID-19 pandemic in the United States will go down as the worst public health disaster in the history of the country". 

 

I found it is so easy for people who can talk anything they like with no responsibility to blame others afterward. So did WHO, China or mainstream or any World Leaders or Governors take any responsibility so far? Now a day people just throw the news to each other to read as if only them read the news. We see through the news, not just read it. We have no intention to find news that some how try to blame Trump but they kept found us buy people failed to see the inconsistency of the news or timeline. They read the news and then forget it, then read the newer one and think they recap everything correctly.

So any opposite party or mainstream to Government is always right because they don't have to take any responsibility and can blame everything afterward. Why no one mentioned how busy Trump was with the investments and impeachment so that he didn't have time to lead his subordinates? Did Trump kick all of the CDC members and replace his people only or just top of the CDC?

 

Edited April 28, 2020 by SUZNV

[Mitchell123 0]

Hi everyone, I was wondering why oil markets went negative. I found this podcast, can you please provide opinions on what they're saying? https://www.buzzsprout.com/1039846/3520228

[frankfurter + 562]

@ SUZNV:  "Test from China has 30% of accuracy, fact."

No, not fact. 

The fact is: Certain governments fell prey to internal corruption, and purchased FAKE test kits from so-called 'producers' who were never certified by any authority anywhere. The buyers never conducted any diligence into the source, the certifications, the clinical results, independent trials, etc. Those fake kits were sold with hefty 'commissions', supported by fake documents. 

The fact is: GENUINE, CERTIFIED kits do perform up to the standards claimed. 

 

[Geoff Guenther + 317]

11 hours ago, El Nikko said:

You are wrong, you didn't even make any sense there at all.

I don't worship any authorities and as much as it will hurt you to know.... I didn't vote for the conservatives and never have in my life

The peak in the UK was on the 8th of April, death toll is plummeting, beds are emptying so fast they are begging people to come back to hospital. This was just another nasty flu type epidemic that killed off the most vulnerable people and that was helped along by the revolting decisions made by government, beurocrats and the scum that claim to be managers of the NHS.

I was told by my nephew (who is a doctor) weeks ago that the NHS were planning to not treat the most vulnerable and thats pretty much what happened, they emptied the beds and sent them to care homes (some with CV-19) where it spread and killed so many people. They did that because they assumed there was going to be a massive influx of patients and that never happened.

Can you see the peak?

Cases have started to come down in London, but have remained pretty steady most other regions, which is somewhat annoying. The ONS figures for the week ending 17th April are 11,854 excess deaths - over double the normal death rate for the week - so we have some way to go. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

Today's hospital deaths numbers will hint at whether we've turned the corner on the mortality. We'll have to wait until next week's ONS numbers to give us a more accurate view.

I heard the same thing as you as far as turning vulnerable patients away from the hospital. Here in Glasgow we had a older woman with a broken arm turned away last week who ended up dying.  At least that caused the NHS to publically update its guidance.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

On 4/27/2020 at 7:05 AM, El Nikko said:

Well worth watching

 

Video pulled off YouTube

[Geoff Guenther + 317]

13 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

 

Why was it pulled?

Edited April 28, 2020 by Geoff Guenther

[El Nikko + 2,145]

58 minutes ago, Geoff Guenther said:

 

Why was it pulled?

Probably something to do with this policy

"Earlier this month, YouTube CEO Susan Wojcicki told CNN that the company would ban any video content that contradicted World Health Organization recommendations.

However, Wojcicki suggested that this would mainly be focused on banning information about fake cures, not questioning of government policy."

https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/youtube-censors-viral-video-california-doctors-criticizing-stay-home-order

-----------

You probably wont remember but quite a while ago I posted a short video of a guy at a club with some fake subtitles where the reporter tells the guy that vodka cures the coronavirus, on hearing that he starts dancing...it was obviously a joke but youtube just pulled that video from my channel as well 😂

[El Nikko + 2,145]

3 hours ago, Geoff Guenther said:

Cases have started to come down in London, but have remained pretty steady most other regions, which is somewhat annoying. The ONS figures for the week ending 17th April are 11,854 excess deaths - over double the normal death rate for the week - so we have some way to go. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/weeklyprovisionalfiguresondeathsregisteredinenglandandwales

Today's hospital deaths numbers will hint at whether we've turned the corner on the mortality. We'll have to wait until next week's ONS numbers to give us a more accurate view.

I heard the same thing as you as far as turning vulnerable patients away from the hospital. Here in Glasgow we had a older woman with a broken arm turned away last week who ended up dying.  At least that caused the NHS to publically update its guidance.

I really don't think looking at the number of cases is a good idea because with increasing testing you will find more people who have it and it will give misleading information.

That's why I posted the two charts which I feel indicate how well the NHS is coping with it, there's only going to be a certain percentage of the population who are at risk and in the wrong place at the wrong time that will die if exposed and that is why I am quite sure a massive proportion of the dead were probably already in hospitals and care homes.  On average time it takes for someone to die from complications from CV-19 is around 3 weeks. We know the vast majority of deaths are in the elderly so anyone who dies from it today caught it after the lockdown and due to their age they were probably not going out to pubs and resteraunts, this really should be looked into.

Regarding the ONS data I have also been downloading it weekly, one thing that is worth noting is that up to that last data set only 138 people under 40 have died with it which is a tiny percentage of the overall figure.

I really don't understand the point of locking up healthy people who have very little chance of dying or becoming seriously ill and I cannot imagine how some people are coping. I work from home and am used to not really going out for months when I'm busy (a distant memory now) and this is really affecting me. I think we should focus on protecting the vulnerable and elderly but we appear to have done the exact opposite, I wonder if you would at least agree with that?

[SUZNV + 1,197]

8 hours ago, frankfurter said:

@ SUZNV:  "Test from China has 30% of accuracy, fact."

No, not fact. 

The fact is: Certain governments fell prey to internal corruption, and purchased FAKE test kits from so-called 'producers' who were never certified by any authority anywhere. The buyers never conducted any diligence into the source, the certifications, the clinical results, independent trials, etc. Those fake kits were sold with hefty 'commissions', supported by fake documents. 

The fact is: GENUINE, CERTIFIED kits do perform up to the standards claimed. 

 

The point I made is no amount of test was enough, if other countries follow WHO lead and successful tests, why should they still need to buy the test even now, 3 months after? Why do they have to order theses cheap if they can develop the good one for themselves. At least US no longer need to import test kits. The first line of defense are the masks, not tests. That's how Japan, Taiwan, HK, Vietnam etc. can stop the spread. They all have masks and the first thing when they heard disease, they put them on. Some countries even put on a mask whenever they go out. 

How easy to persuade Europe and US people to wear a mask if there is news of a disease is on the way? Just to help slow the spreading down?

Quote

The British government ordered 3.5 million of the antibody tests, largely from China, last month. A provisional order of 17.5 million kits was placed with nine companies, including some in the U.K., the Daily Telegraph noted. But Bell said none were reliable enough to roll out for mass testing.

And in this disease when tests kits are rare, you think private so call producers can sells the tests in the private order level? Think again.

Quote

The U.K. is the latest European nation to complain about the efficacy of medical supplies sourced from China. Beijing—having seemingly gotten its national outbreak under control—is now pivoting to assist other nations worldwide who are struggling with the virus. The government has sent doctors and tons of equipment to nations in Europe, North America and elsewhere.

https://www.newsweek.com/uk-says-millions-coronavirus-test-kits-bought-china-unreliable-most-patients-1496506

Quote

 

Separately, a spokeswoman from China’s foreign ministry said last week that Slovak government officials had questioned the reliability of rapid tests purchased from China.

The preliminary conclusion from the Chinese consulate in Slovakia was that the inaccuracies were the result of medical workers using the kit incorrectly, the spokeswoman said.

 

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-china-testkits/china-clamps-down-on-coronavirus-test-kit-exports-after-accuracy-questioned-idUSKBN21J51S

Quote

 

Bioeasy’s rapid tests, as well as the tests questioned by Slovak officials, are antigen tests, a method that targets the virus’ protein to detect infection and can deliver results more quickly than the alternative nucleic acid method.

But antigen tests require higher level of virus load and therefore could fail to diagnose people correctly when the samples only contain small amount of virus, Dr. Chen Guangjie, an immunology professor at Shanghai Jiaotong University, told Reuters.

 

The fast tests depend on high viral load is the key here, the point is virus keep developing inside a person, so unless that person do testing every single day until the viral load is high enough, was there any possible way to do this at the airports? Even 14 days quarantines has no meaning.

And since there were no medicine. if you find hard to breath, you go/carried to ICU and have a ventilation machine on. If you are sick and you can breath, you are advised to self quarantine at home. No test was carried out, that is how hospitals are operating no matter Trump is currently president or not. 

A test can only assure you at least you are okay for now. Counting infected numbers everyday in county, states, countries is misleading from the beginning. It does not help. Lots of friends from other countries were calling me and think we have people die on streets around me like in Wuhan. And their media using US mainstream sources for the number.

Anyone articles says:if we had had enough tests then we would have been able to contain Covid19 and reduce the death number is misleading or don't understand how thing works. Surprisingly media concentrates on this instead of educate people to have a habit to wear a mask in public when they are sick or whenever some communicable disease is coming in the future. Just like using durex to limit HIV spreading.

Next time a disease comes or Covid19 evolves and comes back, we are still in the same mess with the misleading infected data. Just like a child was thinking his dad has a money printing machine but just lazy to do the money printing.

Edited April 28, 2020 by SUZNV

[Geoff Guenther + 317]

50 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

You probably wont remember but quite a while ago I posted a short video of a guy at a club with some fake subtitles where the reporter tells the guy that vodka cures the coronavirus, on hearing that he starts dancing...it was obviously a joke but youtube just pulled that video from my channel as well 😂

Well, alcohol thins blood, so may cause less clotting. Maybe he had a point 😉