Coronavirus hype biggest political hoax in history

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Just now, Jee said:

Keep telling us it's hoax, your stupidity is equally hilarious as your cowardness.

Let's agree to disagree

[Jee + 27]

2 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

NJ Health Commissioner Judy Persichilli giving the order to send COVID-19 positive patients back to long-term care facilities after the hospital discharges them.

Half of NJ's deaths occurred in long-term care facilities aka nursing homes.

PDF of this document can be downloaded here:

https://www.nj.gov/health/healthfacilities/documents/CN/temp_waivers/HospitalDischarges_andAdmissions_toPost-AcuteCareSettings.pdf

That ^ PDF attached below:

HospitalDischarges_andAdmissions_toPost-AcuteCareSettings.pdf 896.83 kB · 0 downloads

Good news, Tom K you can now go to these nursing homes and volunteer there with your camera, don't wear PPEs but your cross, if you get it it's OK it's just a hoax, post your video on YouTube and BRAVO, you will change the views of millions!

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jee

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

5 minutes ago, Jee said:

Tom K, it seems to me you need help find the APPROPRIATE hospital/ER for treating covid 19, what do you try to prove by going to a ghosted place? Go to ground 0 would you? I will do you a favor, if you tell us here the town you live in, I will personally search for you the nearest COVID19 treatment facility to you, so you can demonstrate your theories in real life, how about that.

Jee, if you've got some real life experiences I think we all would appreciate your sharing of them.  There is no need to come cold onto a forum and attack people in discussions that are taking place all over the world.  Enlighten if you wish, but attacking without sharing your motivation to do so does no-one any good.

This discussion in particular has repeatedly noted the realities of Covid-19.  The discussion is very much about the feelings that, although the threat is real and deadly, the numbers do not seem to justify the lockdown of the entire United States and most of the world.

You are welcome to try to convince us otherwise.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

WMD in Iraq....are you saying there were not any, or that they were not found?

Ask the Kurds what they think....

Perhaps the Israelis as well, a few yrs after the war Israel flew and bombed a site in Syria that went unreported in the mainstream media. Now think of that....Israel bombing on Syrian soil back then and no outrage or reprisal..It happened and if on Google's deep enough the incident is still there.

All that was said was Syria was attempting and nuclear power plant. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

2 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Jee, if you've got some real life experiences I think we all would appreciate your sharing of them.  There is no need to come cold onto a forum and attack people in discussions that are taking place all over the world.  Enlighten if you wish, but attacking without sharing your motivation to do so does no-one any good.

This discussion in particular has repeatedly noted the realities of Covid-19.  The discussion is very much about the feelings that, although the threat is real and deadly, the numbers do not seem to justify the lockdown of the entire United States and most of the world.

You are welcome to try to convince us otherwise.

Bingo

[Jee + 27]

6 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Jee, if you've got some real life experiences I think we all would appreciate your sharing of them.  There is no need to come cold onto a forum and attack people in discussions that are taking place all over the world.  Enlighten if you wish, but attacking without sharing your motivation to do so does no-one any good.

This discussion in particular has repeatedly noted the realities of Covid-19.  The discussion is very much about the feelings that, although the threat is real and deadly, the numbers do not seem to justify the lockdown of the entire United States and most of the world.

You are welcome to try to convince us otherwise.

Your question is fairly simple to explain, if the immediate world around you has not collapsed due to this pandemic, it's because someone else are doing the heavy lifting for you, health care workers and people obeying the lock down measures are all helping with the situation. And if you believe this is a hoax like some others do here, the long term care facilities like Tom K posted could use some workers at this time. 

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jee

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

NJ Health Commissioner Judy Persichilli giving the order to send COVID-19 positive patients back to long-term care facilities after the hospital discharges them.

Half of NJ's deaths occurred in long-term care facilities aka nursing homes.

   ...

PDF of this document can be downloaded here:

https://www.nj.gov/health/healthfacilities/documents/CN/temp_waivers/HospitalDischarges_andAdmissions_toPost-AcuteCareSettings.pdf

That ^ PDF attached below:

HospitalDischarges_andAdmissions_toPost-AcuteCareSettings.pdf 896.83 kB · 0 downloads

New York Post:

Cuomo’s nursing home reversal is too little, too late for those now dead: Goodwin

Gov. Cuomo will never be confused with Fiorello La Guardia. “When I make a mistake, it’s a beaut,” the legendary mayor of New York once confessed.

Unfortunately, Cuomo’s pride and political calculations don’t allow him to admit error even as he finally reverses one of the mostly deadly policy mistakes in New York history.

Nursing homes and rehabilitation centers have tallied more than 5,000 coronavirus deaths, yet the governor accepts zero responsibility despite his March 25th order forcing them to take infected patients from hospitals.

Now he says they no longer have to do that, announcing Sunday that “a hospital cannot discharge a person who is COVID positive to a nursing home.”

Indeed, the initial order denied nursing homes the right even to ask if patients being sent by hospitals had tested positive for the coronavirus.

Now hospitals must do discharge tests and only those who are negative can be referred to nursing homes.

Said one nursing home executive, “It feels at least a month too late.”

The move comes amid growing calls for an independent investigation of the nursing home catastrophe, where the death count dwarfs the total deaths in every other state except New Jersey.

Still, Cuomo claims the reversal is not a reversal, nor is it a recognition of the fatal impact of the initial order.

 

==============================================

Not often I link to 4chan, but here is a link to a 4chan /pol/ thread.  Very much NOT SAFE FOR WORK.  If you are easily offended, don't even think about clicking the link:

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY HAPPENING: HIGH COVID DEATHS IN BLUE STATES NOT AN ACCIDENT

BLUE STATES DIVERTED KNOWN COVID CASES *INTO* THEIR NURSING HOMES
THIS WAS INTENTIONAL MASS MURDER
THEY WANTED HIGH CASUALTY NUMBERS TO PIN ON TRUMP
And as always, the time for screaming... is now.

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

8 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

This discussion in particular has repeatedly noted the realities of Covid-19.  The discussion is very much about the feelings that, although the threat is real and deadly, the numbers do not seem to justify the lockdown of the entire United States and most of the world.

You are welcome to try to convince us otherwise.

^ this

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Jee said:

If it is low risk in areas you have in mind, would you be so kind to offer yourself as a volunteer in their hospital/ER for treating cover patients? After all it seems you already have a comprehensive low risk treatment plan which Jesus will have you with, so why don't you show some courage and help out our frontline workers? You can deliver meals, mob the floor, clean the toilets for covid19 patients and what not. Go be a volunteer and post some pictures back here so we know you aren't just talking no doing?

I have actual science to help me deal. Read up, don't dismiss things because "officials" said something. They are not obliged to be truthful. They are in a position to take money and favors in return for their pronouncements and "trials". 

I would not be volunteering to do what I am not doing at home. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

15 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

New York Post:

Cuomo’s nursing home reversal is too little, too late for those now dead: Goodwin

Gov. Cuomo will never be confused with Fiorello La Guardia. “When I make a mistake, it’s a beaut,” the legendary mayor of New York once confessed.

Unfortunately, Cuomo’s pride and political calculations don’t allow him to admit error even as he finally reverses one of the mostly deadly policy mistakes in New York history.

Nursing homes and rehabilitation centers have tallied more than 5,000 coronavirus deaths, yet the governor accepts zero responsibility despite his March 25th order forcing them to take infected patients from hospitals.

Now he says they no longer have to do that, announcing Sunday that “a hospital cannot discharge a person who is COVID positive to a nursing home.”

Indeed, the initial order denied nursing homes the right even to ask if patients being sent by hospitals had tested positive for the coronavirus.

Now hospitals must do discharge tests and only those who are negative can be referred to nursing homes.

Said one nursing home executive, “It feels at least a month too late.”

The move comes amid growing calls for an independent investigation of the nursing home catastrophe, where the death count dwarfs the total deaths in every other state except New Jersey.

Still, Cuomo claims the reversal is not a reversal, nor is it a recognition of the fatal impact of the initial order.

 

==============================================

Not often I link to 4chan, but here is a link to a 4chan /pol/ thread.  Very much NOT SAFE FOR WORK.  If you are easily offended, don't even think about clicking the link:

ABSOFUCKINGLUTELY HAPPENING: HIGH COVID DEATHS IN BLUE STATES NOT AN ACCIDENT

BLUE STATES DIVERTED KNOWN COVID CASES *INTO* THEIR NURSING HOMES
THIS WAS INTENTIONAL MASS MURDER
THEY WANTED HIGH CASUALTY NUMBERS TO PIN ON TRUMP
And as always, the time for screaming... is now.

 

Obviously Cuomo followed the Italian model. 

[Jee + 27]

4 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

I have actual science to help me deal. Read up, don't dismiss things because "officials" said something. They are not obliged to be truthful. They are in a position to take money and favors in return for their pronouncements and "trials". 

I would not be volunteering to do what I am not doing at home. 

You are claiming this is a hoax at your home correct? Now let's do the same claim in the longterm care facilities where covid19 patients are dying for help. You can do it. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

15 minutes ago, Jee said:

Your question is fairly simple to explain, if the immediate world around you has not collapsed due to this pandemic, it's because someone else are doing the heavy lifting for you, health care workers and people obeying the lock down measures are all helping with the situation. And if you believe this is a hoax like some others do here, the long term care facilities like Tom K posted could use some workers at this time. 

There you go again.  So I'll say it again:  No one is saying that this virus is a hoax.  No one.  Also, NO group involved in the midst of the pandemic are respected on this forum more than the health care workers.  They are saints and we are incredibly thankful for all of them, no matter where they serve or at what level.

 We have had lengthy discussions and a lot of statistical evidence posted that shows why lock down measures are, from a data perspective, not worth complete national and worldwide shutdowns, and collapsing economies and the wipeout of 10's of millions of people.

No one, repeat, no one would like to suffer through and possibly die from this virus.  But many people around the world can not feed their families, let alone pay their bills without work.  People around the world are arrested and beaten for stepping outside of their houses for any reason.  We are an international forum with many members living and working in these foreign countries where these things are happening to otherwise law abiding people.  People that make up governments in any place that are not methodically, based on evidence, taking measures to open need to adjust as well.

We have discussed at length that it makes sense where appropriate to get people back to work, with distancing and protective masks and gloves as appropriate.  

[El Nikko + 2,145]

41 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Very much NOT SAFE FOR WORK.  If you are easily offended, don't even think about clicking the link:

That is possibly the biggest understatement in human history 😂

[BradleyPNW + 282]

On 5/6/2020 at 3:33 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

Actually yes, making masks mandatory would be depriving people of their freedom.

No. The government isn't making anyone wear a mask at home. The rules change when we enter into public spaces and start encroaching on the freedoms of others. For example, children should not be allowed in schools if they have not been vaccinated. If you want to live in public spaces you need to abide by public rules. 

[Jee + 27]

2 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

There you go again.  So I'll say it again:  No one is saying that this virus is a hoax.  No one.  Also, NO group involved in the midst of the pandemic are respected on this forum more than the health care workers.  They are saints and we are incredibly thankful for all of them, no matter where they serve or at what level.

 We have had lengthy discussions and a lot of statistical evidence posted that shows why lock down measures are, from a data perspective, not worth complete national and worldwide shutdowns, and collapsing economies and the wipeout of 10's of millions of people.

No one, repeat, no one would like to suffer through and possibly die from this virus.  But many people around the world can not feed their families, let alone pay their bills without work.  People around the world are arrested and beaten for stepping outside of their houses for any reason.  We are an international forum with many members living and working in these foreign countries where these things are happening to otherwise law abiding people.  People that make up governments in any place that are not methodically, based on evidence, taking measures to open need to adjust as well.

We have discussed at length that it makes sense where appropriate to get people back to work, with distancing and protective masks and gloves as appropriate.  

If I told you four months ago e.g., that a dozen patients in Wuhan would spread this virus to 4million+ across the globe, you'd be laughing at me and saying there is no data supporting my claim.

The fact is no one knows for sure, and no one is capable of making measures that perfectly balance between saving lives and simultaneously minimizing opportunity costs, even if it is possible to do this with surgical precision, we would still hear people claiming it's a hot air hype.

This is not a lab study with unlimited time and resources so we can analyze all kinds of assumptions, this is wartime, did this country send too many soldiers to die in German during WWII? Could the fatality rates be reduced by 10% if we did XYZ there? Yes it's possible, but during that war time, you don't have the luxury of listing to someone on a forum suggesting you what to do or not, you go with the most respected PROFESSIONALS and follow what they find out, because it's your best bet given the essence of time.

So yes on individual levels there are sacrifices we made that made no difference for nothing, but overall it's the best strategy given the essence of time and resources. Think about how many more would have died when the nation was screaming for ventilators and PPEs a few weeks ago had we not had the lock downs? We have the opportunity to gradually open up again because we did what we did, not because of what we didn't do. 

Now you can argue the lock downs have been 2 weeks too long for you or 1 week too short for him, that's your opinion, and it is my opinion that you are not medically qualified to tell me how to handle this health crisis.

 

 

 

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

If I told you four months ago e.g., that a dozen patients in Wuhan would spread this virus to 4million+ across the globe, you'd be laughing at me and saying there is no data supporting my claim.  Nobody here is disputing the initial call to lockdown.  I lived in China for 9 years and I can tell you uncategorically that I would take any virus in China very seriously.

The fact is no one knows for sure, and no one is capable of making measures that perfectly balance between saving lives and simultaneously minimizing opportunity costs, even if it is possible to do this with surgical precision, we would still hear people claiming it's a hot air hype.

This is not a lab study with unlimited time and resources so we can analyze all kinds of assumptions, this is wartime, did this country send too many soldiers to die in German during WWII? Could the fatality rates be reduced by 10% if we did XYZ there? Yes it's possible, but during that war time, you don't have the luxury of listing to someone on a forum suggesting you what to do or not, you go with the most respected PROFESSIONALS and follow what they find out, because it's your best bet given the essence of time.  Wow.  Okay.  If we sent 350,000,000 soldiers to fight and found out that we only needed 35,000,000 to completely overwhelm the enemy, should we keep all of the soldiers there and empty the treasury anyway?

So yes on individual levels there are sacrifices we made that made no difference for nothing, but overall it's the best strategy given the essence of time and resources. Think about how many more would have died when the nation was screaming for ventilators and PPEs a few weeks ago had we not had the lock downs? We have the opportunity to gradually open up again because we did what we did, not because of what we didn't do.  Again, nobody here is disputing the initial call to lockdown.

Now you can argue the lock downs have been 2 weeks too long for you or 1 week too short for him, that's your opinion, and it is my opinion that you are not medically qualified to tell me how to handle this health crisis.  Again, as I have told you and as others have told you, our discussions have been about hard data, NOT opinions or “just because”. 

And to your final point: I have never told you what to do; YOU CAME HERE, and started attacking.  The fact is that every so called point you are trying so belligerently to make has already been debated, and in most cases you would obviously be surprised to know, we agree with you.

[Jee + 27]

13 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

If I told you four months ago e.g., that a dozen patients in Wuhan would spread this virus to 4million+ across the globe, you'd be laughing at me and saying there is no data supporting my claim.  Nobody here is disputing the initial call to lockdown.  I lived in China for 9 years and I can tell you uncategorically that I would take any virus in China very seriously.

The fact is no one knows for sure, and no one is capable of making measures that perfectly balance between saving lives and simultaneously minimizing opportunity costs, even if it is possible to do this with surgical precision, we would still hear people claiming it's a hot air hype.

This is not a lab study with unlimited time and resources so we can analyze all kinds of assumptions, this is wartime, did this country send too many soldiers to die in German during WWII? Could the fatality rates be reduced by 10% if we did XYZ there? Yes it's possible, but during that war time, you don't have the luxury of listing to someone on a forum suggesting you what to do or not, you go with the most respected PROFESSIONALS and follow what they find out, because it's your best bet given the essence of time.  Wow.  Okay.  If we sent 350,000,000 soldiers to fight and found out that we only needed 35,000,000 to completely overwhelm the enemy, should we keep all of the soldiers there and empty the treasury anyway?

So yes on individual levels there are sacrifices we made that made no difference for nothing, but overall it's the best strategy given the essence of time and resources. Think about how many more would have died when the nation was screaming for ventilators and PPEs a few weeks ago had we not had the lock downs? We have the opportunity to gradually open up again because we did what we did, not because of what we didn't do.  Again, nobody here is disputing the initial call to lockdown.

Now you can argue the lock downs have been 2 weeks too long for you or 1 week too short for him, that's your opinion, and it is my opinion that you are not medically qualified to tell me how to handle this health crisis.  Again, as I have told you and as others have told you, our discussions have been about hard data, NOT opinions or “just because”. 

And to your final point: I have never told you what to do; YOU CAME HERE, and started attacking.  The fact is that every so called point you are trying so belligerently to make has already been debated, and in most cases you would obviously be surprised to know, we agree with you.

Coronavirus hype biggest political hoax in history - biggest? hoax? political? You must have a crystal ball, what does it tell you NEXT?

[TooSteep + 142]

1 hour ago, Jee said:

Keep telling us it's hoax, your stupidity is equally hilarious as your cowardness.

Your repetitive posts have become annoying. 

There are infinite possibilities along the continuum between hoax and end-times plague that requires shutting down the world.

 

[Jee + 27]

Just now, TooSteep said:

Your repetitive posts have become annoying. 

There are infinite possibilities along the continuum between hoax and end-times plague that requires shutting down the world.

 

Tell that to those REPEATING covid19 is a hoax, and lockdowns are not needed etc.

[TooSteep + 142]

"...Using Minnesota as an example, we have 5,600,000 residents, 80,000 of whom live in these senior congregate settings. When I did this analysis a couple of days ago, we had 508 deaths, 407 in those settings. So 407 divided by 80,000 is a death rate of .51%. 101 divided by 5,520,000 is a death rate of .002%. That is a 255 times greater death rate among that congregate living group."

The main article is interesting, but that commenter's data on nursing homes really puts things into focus:

https://judithcurry.com/2020/05/10/why-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-is-reached-much-earlier-than-thought/

 

Edited to add a link to the original, but it doesn't have all the interesting comments:

https://www.nicholaslewis.org/why-herd-immunity-to-covid-19-is-reached-much-earlier-than-thought/

Edited May 11, 2020 by TooSteep

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

15 minutes ago, Jee said:

Tell that to those REPEATING covid19 is a hoax, and lockdowns are not needed etc.

You are new here, why exactly did you decide to go on a posting frenzy and try like crazy to push the MSM official panic narrative?

Apparently even asking questions is wrong, if I understand your comments correctly.

Also, a word of advice, if you persist in being belligerently insulting to others here for no apparent reason than they disagree with you, you will earn a few days time out from posting here.

My very old advice, for your consideration:

*** Important !   I do *not* expect others to agree with my opinions.  I tend to have rather unusual opinions about international Oil & Gas.  I *do* hope that readers will fearlessly voice their own views about international oil & gas.

As a former moderator on the Oilpro forum, (and now a moderator here on the Oil Price Community forum) I *encourage* dissent, and *encourage* Freedom of Speech, and *encourage* others to freely voice their views and convictions about oil & gas. 

A diversity of global views is what makes the world a special place.  Conformity is just a slow, painful death of not speaking your mind.  So SPEAK UP.  Please don't be a jerk about about it, though.  If you want others to consider your views, please be willing to consider the views of others.

[Jee + 27]

16 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

You are new here, why exactly did you decide to go on a posting frenzy and try like crazy to push the MSM official panic narrative?

Apparently even asking questions is wrong, if I understand your comments correctly.

Also, a word of advice, if you persist in being belligerently insulting to others here for no apparent reason than they disagree with you, you will earn a few days time out from posting here.

My very old advice, for your consideration:

*** Important !   I do *not* expect others to agree with my opinions.  I tend to have rather unusual opinions about international Oil & Gas.  I *do* hope that readers will fearlessly voice their own views about international oil & gas.

As a former moderator on the Oilpro forum, (and now a moderator here on the Oil Price Community forum) I *encourage* dissent, and *encourage* Freedom of Speech, and *encourage* others to freely voice their views and convictions about oil & gas. 

A diversity of global views is what makes the world a special place.  Conformity is just a slow, painful death of not speaking your mind.  So SPEAK UP.  Please don't be a jerk about about it, though.  If you want others to consider your views, please be willing to consider the views of others.

OK no attack, what data do you have to suggest these words from your title: "Biggest", "Political" or "Hoax"?

Besides why do you think suggesting someone to work as a volunteer worker is a personal attack?

Edited May 11, 2020 by Jee

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 hours ago, Jee said:

You are claiming this is a hoax at your home correct? Now let's do the same claim in the longterm care facilities where covid19 patients are dying for help. You can do it. 

I am not saying the virus is a hoax. I am saying that the connection between what governments have done in connection to it is unrelated to the virus. That what the medical establishment is doing is killing people on purpose by denying real research and tripping up all constructive efforts among practicing physicians. That the media storm of panic mongering disinformation and cooperation with the WHO and China propaganda and counter science activity is the actual news. 

[El Gato + 254]

The Data is out there in front of your eyes. Wisconsin had their primary elections seven weeks ago, thousands went out and voted, Wisconsin Covid rate did not go up like a barn fire. Also you need to re-read the thread title and quit misquoting the fine gentlemen here. The HYPE is the hoax, not the virus. You keep misquoting all through the thread and was even corrected once on it.  On a personal note, I treat all  virus' with respect, just like Bees. You don't mess with bees, or shake the hive's, and they won't sting you. If you have a bee allergy, you treat them with greater respect. we have lived with Bees for a very long time, and we aren't locked from them either

Edited May 11, 2020 by El Gato
spelling

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 hours ago, Jee said:

You are claiming this is a hoax at your home correct? Now let's do the same claim in the longterm care facilities where covid19 patients are dying for help. You can do it. 

My county has 177 cases. 30 hospitalizations.

Long term care facilities were targeted for placement of the infected on purpose in many places under Democratic control. Cuomo in particular has been directly implicated in doing so with the purpose of inducing further deaths in order to collect Federal funds connected with them. He is quoted as saying higher death numbers would be favorable for him politically, implying his people should do their best to create more CV19 deaths. A range of mass firings gag orders and NDAs are his and his medical regulator's attempt to cover it up  

You are either part of the big lie, or have swallowed the media panic pill. You obviously have the delusion of having made arguments. You have just spouted media soundbite gibberish.