Coronavirus hype biggest political hoax in history

[0R0 + 6,251]

46 minutes ago, Jim Profit said:

Yes I understand .. But in this case people can do whatever they want, they just have to wear a mask. Like they can drive wherever they want despite speed limits. A rational measure that is supported by science, to save the most lives (and maybe even some zygotes, to the joy of pro-life people). Lives of people > my "freedom" to not wear a mask.

Would I be coerced into wearing a pink polo or having the same aircut as my president, it would be for an arbitrary reason, I would definitely consider that as an attack on my freedom. Because that's arbitraty, that is asking submission to power.

Freedom to not wear a mask and spread my germs, freedom to get a manucure during a pandemic..Self-entitled freedom.

It is still an arbitrary reason. If others are wearing masks, you as a carrier of the virus are much less of a threat to them. If you are not wearing a mask,and you are not infected, then you are putting yourself in danger, nobody else. If you are actively infected, and you know it but go in public anyway. then when you are without a mask you are an A hole, not a criminal. 

You are enforcing a social preference on someone for no reason, just an excuse. 

Yes. And in a free country you are completely reliant on people to behave rationally and you have the option to avoid people who aren't. When they don't let you avoid them, there are criminal laws against that.  

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

12 hours ago, El Nikko said:

No it disproportionally affects the very old, infirm, those with multiple comorbidities and the obese.

If you are not one of the above you have very little chance of dying

-------------------

Some data from the UK's Office for National Statistics.

Date 5th May.

27330 deaths in England and Wales.

186 under the age of 40 or 0.68%

615 under the age of 50 or 2.25%

2035 under the age of 60 or 7.45%

5060 under the age of 70 or 18.5%

22,270 over the age of 70 or 81.5%

That's not a very meaningful statistic, because since the virus is able to kill in other ways than previously thought (i.e. it's not just a pulmonary disesase, but it can also cause strokes, hearth attacks, embolics and other seemingly unrelated problems in otherwise healthy individuals, many people who died from it are probably not registered as such. Also, it's early in the epidemics, it's obvious that weak and old people will die first and faster, while the stronger will fight longer. 

Your statistics also disregard the fact that COVID-19 leaves the difficult cases with permanently damaged organs - lungs, kidneys, liver, even brain. They technically survived, but their lives are ruined.

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

35 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

It is still an arbitrary reason. If others are wearing masks, you as a carrier of the virus are much less of a threat to them. If you are not wearing a mask,and you are not infected, then you are putting yourself in danger, nobody else. If you are actively infected, and you know it but go in public anyway. then when you are without a mask you are an A hole, not a criminal. 

You are enforcing a social preference on someone for no reason, just an excuse. 

Yes. And in a free country you are completely reliant on people to behave rationally and you have the option to avoid people who aren't. When they don't let you avoid them, there are criminal laws against that.  

I see that you are still consistently wrong in almost everything you say about the virus. In this case - there is a large group of asymptomatic "super-spreaders" who do not exhibit any signs of the illness, yet are able to infect dozens of people. Since there is no way of telling who they are (aside from large scale testing that is not an option, since your incompetent president wasted all the time for preparation), it's best when people put on their masks and stop babbling nonsense about "personal freedom". That's also the reason why many countries in Europe and Asia are doing quite fine, while Americans and Brits are dying like flies - the failure to put the needs of the society over their personal needs, even when it's a matter of life and death. 

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

6 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Seems like a cautionary tale. But in our case they are ignoring the sick people on the ship, and quarantining the healthy people in Marseilles. 

I hope you learned something

Unless you test them, you don't know they are healthy. 

[UNC12345 + 171]

1 hour ago, 0R0 said:

Of course they are, you have laws against people causing damage or reckless behavior while driving drunk or otherwise incapacitated by choice. There is no reason to have a separate law criminalizing the causal activity itself. 

The authority of law is uniquely and solely to prevent the impingement of others on ones freedoms. All else is pretense for power. 

I understand completely where you're at.  Chilling really.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

5 minutes ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Unless you test them, you don't know they are healthy. 

Ok your in charge of testing...lets us start here..There are 300 million people in the US..close enough.

It takes 24 hours to get a test result

300 million x 24hrs =7 billion 200 million hours to test...dam simple from there..300 million days to get results...You would have plenty of time for congress to change Hipaa Law no problem.

https://www.hhs.gov/sites/default/files/hipaa-privacy-rule-and-sharing-info-related-to-mental-health.pdf

Of course one could cut that down a smidge and omit a certain body of politics...

 

 

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

16 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

Bullshit.  The general premise is correct. 

Please note the bits that I bolded for emphasis in the opening comment.

 

Big picture time ...

First up:

 

COVID-19 + Food Supply + "Murder" Hornets = Future Shocks

“After continuous shocks, the large targeted population group discovers that it does not want to make choices any more.”

"Just in case you thought giant Asian hornets that can kill people weren’t terrifying enough, a graphic video shows one of the flying terrors stinging a helpless mouse to death."

https://nypost.com/2020/05/05/watch-an-asian-murder-hornet-kill-a-mouse-in-seconds/

 

“Rotting food. Hungry masses. Chaotic supply chains. Coronavirus upends the U.S. food system”

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/rotting-food-hungry-masses-chaotic-supply-chains-coronavirus-upends-the-us-food-system/ar-BB13Cx6x

 

============================================================

"Future shocks" is described as a series of events which come so fast that the human brain cannot absorb the information. As I said earlier, science has shown that there are clearly marked limits to the amount of changes and the nature of them that the mind can deal with. After continuous shocks, the large targeted population group discovers that it does not want to make choices any more. Apathy takes over, often preceded by mindless violence such as is characteristic of the Los Angeles street gangs, serial killers, rapists and child kidnappers. 

Such a group becomes easy to control and will docilely follow orders without rebelling, which is the object of the exercise."

- pg 61

https://www.cia.gov/library/abbottabad-compound/4A/4A92FD2FB4DAE3F773DB0B7742CF0F65_Coleman.-.CONSPIRATORS.HIERARCHY.-.THE.STORY.OF.THE.COMMITTEE.OF.300.R.pdf

 

You have me quite worried there, Tom. First of all - facts. The first paragraph I wrote consists mostly of confirmed new facts about the virus, so you cannot just brush them away saying, I quote "bullshit". Or - you can, but in that very moment, you are excluding yourself of the civilized and educated debate, whose first rule always is - you have to respect the facts. I know your favorite president does not care about them, and you may have gotten the impression that it means new standards are now in place, but it really is not the truth. 

Reality, represented by facts, is not a subject of a "consumer choice" like when you select a flavor of potato chips in a supermarket - "I don't like that reality with depleted resources, destroyed environment and deadly diseases, so I will take the next box where everything magically goes away" - that's the way Trump wanted to "solve" the virus, but it did not work, it did not magically go away. It's still here, it has killed more Americans than Vietnam war in just a few months, so it's not a "fabricated hoax". 

Also, there is this thing with logical fallacies - no doubt every owner of an information channel will have his ulterior agenda, for example Fox News supported by the richest people understandably keep on assuring you should not worry about the environment, because you can buy clean water in plastic jugs in the store, and what more there is to it, right? However that does not mean that whatever is mentioned on the CNN is automatically a diabolical scheme designed to take away your freedoms. The news live from clicks on their headlines, therefore they try to make them as provocative as possible. The driving force is not some overcomplicated dominance scheme, but good old profit - the fuel for the capitalist engine! If you had different set of values and rewards in your society, you could have philosophers and sociologists writing deep and thought provoking articles and commentaries (like my countryman Karel Capek from the beginning of the 20th century - that was a journalist of quite a different calibre), but who would read them today, when you have a populace whose full 50 percent struggle with textbooks for second level elementary schools, according to the recent research (a toll for making education a privilege for the richest). So - murders, murder hornets, rapes and deadly diseases it is! That does not mean, however, that the virus is not potentially extremely dangerous, or that those hornets could not disrupt the bee population as an invasive species that has no predator. 

The fact that someone untrustworthy (to you) makes a reference to something does not say anything about the -something-, okay? To think otherwise is succumbing to the "Post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacy - for example, Nietzsche is sometimes referred to as a "Nazi philosopher", which is nonsense, because Nietzsche wrote his books and formulated his philosophy BEFORE Nazis came to power. Similarly, if Red Brigades started quoting Milton Friedman for some bizarre reason, that would not make Friedman "communist economist", okay? The fact that CNN reports about something is mostly irrelevant - what is important is what are the facts and what the imply. 

The fact that COVID-19 is a highly contagious, deadly virus implies you cannot just ignore it like Donald Trump and Boris Johnson tried, and a proof of that can be directly expressed by the grim statistics of deaths to the virus in both countries. Closing eyes, moving to "a fantasy world" - those are not solutions. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

Wrong thread..

 

Edited May 7, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

I see that you are still consistently wrong in almost everything you say about the virus. In this case - there is a large group of asymptomatic "super-spreaders" who do not exhibit any signs of the illness, yet are able to infect dozens of people. Since there is no way of telling who they are (aside from large scale testing that is not an option, since your incompetent president wasted all the time for preparation), it's best when people put on their masks and stop babbling nonsense about "personal freedom". That's also the reason why many countries in Europe and Asia are doing quite fine, while Americans and Brits are dying like flies - the failure to put the needs of the society over their personal needs, even when it's a matter of life and death. 

That is simply all incorrect. 

From my perspective NONE of what was done in the West was necessary. Just warning people and providing decent instructions would have done well as in Sweden. As to the lack of response from the Trump administration, there were bureaucratic wars against developing tests by the CDC and FDA, which were not under Trump's control. Those actions reek of sabotage.

Again, it is not going to matter much in most of the US that you wear a mask. The numbers will continue at a slow spread in most locations. 

The more rare hematological and cardiovascular problems you speak of could be addressed by HCQ/Z, as the HCQ protects the hemoglobin from being taken apart by the virus, which steals the porphyrin to facilitate attachment to the target cells. But you oppose that on political principle since Trump touted it. Yet somehow not wearing a mask when you are healthy is an affront to society. I think you are twisted.  

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

6 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Actually yes, making masks mandatory would be depriving people of their freedom.

You are free to wear a mask if you so choose.

I am free to choose not to wear a mask.

You are way overstepping your bounds here in trying to force your views down my throat.  No. Mask. Period.

This Controla-virus is truly spinning out of control.

The death rates do not warrant the shutdown of countries and dictatorial control over populations and economic slaughter.

https://babylonbee.com/news/doctor-arrested-after-prescribing-fresh-air-sunshine

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Hmm.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

8 hours ago, 0R0 said:

You can wear an N95 mask which protects only you and keeps everyone in danger of contracting the virus from you. You can wear a cloth or surgical mask that reduces substantially your danger to others, while keeping you in minor danger as it is not a complete block of the virus, it just assures you that your initial load upon infection would be smaller than your would have had without it. Probability of infection is lower 

Use of hand sanitizer frequently or gloves (replaced frequently) also protects you. 

There is absolutely no authority to impose masks. And coercion is not acceptable. and IS depriving people of their freedom. Particularly their choice of the degree of risk they take with their lives and health. 

 

I would wager that no country and no people on earth have studied more about what freedom means in all its variants than the United States and the American people.  People all over the world may be surprised with how American born issues of human freedoms have made their way into their own societies.  What may seem trivial, or even selfish, at first glance can in many cases be shown to actually have profound effects upon societies and governments of all varieties and in countries around the world.  Example:  Freedom of thought.

Contrary to what may be portrayed in media, Americans are also typically, normally, generous and caring of their fellow human beings.  Most Americans would no sooner put their neighbors at risk of any harm than they would their own families.  We are NOT perfect, but we also do not take decisions such as these lightly, and we do not allow our government to overstep their citizen-given powers.  Rights of all people are important and government slippery slopes towards overwhelming power are important as well.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

https://babylonbee.com/news/doctor-arrested-after-prescribing-fresh-air-sunshine

The audacity of Dr. Meade!  Doesn't he know we're more advanced now?  Fresh air and sunshine, indeed.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

7 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

That's not a very meaningful statistic, because since the virus is able to kill in other ways than previously thought (i.e. it's not just a pulmonary disesase, but it can also cause strokes, hearth attacks, embolics and other seemingly unrelated problems in otherwise healthy individuals, many people who died from it are probably not registered as such. Also, it's early in the epidemics, it's obvious that weak and old people will die first and faster, while the stronger will fight longer. 

Your statistics also disregard the fact that COVID-19 leaves the difficult cases with permanently damaged organs - lungs, kidneys, liver, even brain. They technically survived, but their lives are ruined.

Many of those deaths being attributed to Covid19 are actually those who died from other causes and were simply infected by the virus.

This accounting is meaningless and driven by other motives.

[Jim Profit + 46]

When an hospital requires visitors to wear masks are they depriving from your freedom.

They do not this for arbitrary reason this is for your protection and the one of the others. The greater good.

Catching diseases and/or spreading them is not a freedom worth fighting for.

We have a personal responsability, of not hurting other people by spreading diseases.

And if you catch disease this has consequence for the other people:

* virus spreading

* additional load on healthcare facilities

Even is a country as consumerist as the USA, healthcare facilities were not designed wih the idea that people could "consume" diseases in mind.

So in my opinion refusing to wear mask reflect either that you don't take the menace seriously (and therefore perceive this as an arbitrary deprivation of freedoom), or that reflect self-entilement, selfishness..

Edited May 7, 2020 by Jim Profit

[Jim Profit + 46]

1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Many of those deaths being attributed to Covid19 are actually those who died from other causes and were simply infected by the virus.

This accounting is meaningless and driven by other motives.

Despite being often repeated here, this is an unproven allegation.
In New-York city, from 3/11 ro 4/25 surmortality (20,000) was 25% greater than deaths attributed to COVID-19 (16,000).
Flu period was over. Flu and pneumonia usual annual death toll in NYC is 2,000.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I’ll go with thinking the whole thing is fear driven and we are simply kicking the ‘herd immunity’ issue down the road.

I assume you’ve been reading where doctors were forced to include a reference to COVID19 on the death certificate even though COVID19 was not the cause of death....sounds like a hidden agenda to me.

If someone drives their car into a tree while drunk, and he happens to test positive for the virus during the autopsy, why is COVID19 even mentioned on the death certificate.....as an example.

[Jim Profit + 46]

'What are we doing this for?': Doctors are fed up with conspiracies ravaging ER

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/what-are-we-doing-doctors-are-fed-conspiracies-ravaging-ers-n1201446

[Jim Profit + 46]

6 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I assume you’ve been reading where doctors were forced to include a reference to COVID19 on the death certificate even though COVID19 was not the cause of death....sounds like a hidden agenda to me.

If someone drives their car into a tree while drunk, and he happens to test positive for the virus during the autopsy, why is COVID19 even mentioned on the death certificate.....as an example.

Other unproven allegations, rumors.. 

Nothing better? 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

Hmm.

Video removed by YouTube censors.

You can download the 30 minute documentary style MP4 video "Plandemic part 1" from WeTransfer, totally separate from YouTube. 

Wish I had a middle finger emoticon to insert here to give to Google / YouTube.

Download link, 347 MB:

https://wetransfer.com/downloads/f77e4943a1dd74538f18f8949739920220200506071323/5b9d84

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 minutes ago, Jim Profit said:

Other unproven allegations, rumors.. 

Nothing better? 

No, nothing better, just a healthy dose of common sense and not believing everything I read.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

14 minutes ago, Jim Profit said:

'What are we doing this for?': Doctors are fed up with conspiracies ravaging ER

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/tech-news/what-are-we-doing-doctors-are-fed-conspiracies-ravaging-ers-n1201446

Fake news there Mr. Profit. 

MSM busted creating fake panic about Covid.  Watch the video of NBC staging fake Covid hype for their national broadcast.  2 minute video:

https://twitter.com/i/status/1258053844812120066

[Radha + 262]

Outside of NY we did not have any unusual numbers of deaths. It's just like an ordinary flu season outside of NY and a severe one in NY. But still does not justify locking up the whole country and pretty much the whole world.

Places that did not lock down like Sweden, Belarus, Taiwan, Bali etc. are all doing much better healthwise and economically.

But of course there was a big agenda behind the whole thing.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

The fact that COVID-19 is a highly contagious, deadly virus implies you cannot just ignore it like Donald Trump and Boris Johnson tried, and a proof of that can be directly expressed by the grim statistics of deaths to the virus in both countries. Closing eyes, moving to "a fantasy world" - those are not solutions. 

You are part of the problem, persistently pushing the panic narrative hammered daily onto our heads by the Mainstream Media.

You are unapologetically obstinate about spreading fear, panic, and bad news on this forum. 

You consistently quash any hope of positive news or hope in general.

Nope, I'm not censoring you, just calling you out for being a deliberate and persistent fear-monger.

My eyes glaze over at your screeds, pretty much the same way my eyes glaze over at the TVs at airports where CNN is displayed to a captive and bored public.

You are free to write any comments you wish on this forum, provided you follow the general forum rules just like everyone has to follow the general forum rules.

And I remain free to ignore any comment that I choose to ignore when my eyes glaze over from an overdose of reading fear-mongering.

 

 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

16 hours ago, El Nikko said:

I'm all over it, smoking like a trooper here

 

15 hours ago, ronwagn said:

We went with nicotine lozenges in case we get it. 

 

Amateurs...  You need the full course treatment.  Hookers and blow are at your own expense though.

https://twitter.com/Breaking911/status/1258229976849092608