US To Remove Patriot Missile Protection From Saudi Arabia Amid Oilpocalypse - - ZeroHedge

[BLA + 1,666]

On 5/9/2020 at 7:48 PM, El Gato said:

Anti-missile and anti-aircraft are two different things. All the shoot downs by Turkey have been air-to-air so far. So thus far the system hasn't shot anything down in Turkey yet. And the lat I read, all of the components are not there yet to set up a battery. Some missiles can shoot down both aircraft and missiles, suck as the Patriot, the SM-3, and SM-6, and most others can't. or haven't proven the capability.

On the Saudi Patriots, they are being rotated back to the states along with 2 other systems in the ME. Aside from them not being on when the refinery attacks, Patriots would not work on low slow flying targets either. They are a medium low altitude to a medium high altitude weapon system. A low and slow drone attack would have never registered on their systems.I'm not sure  the Saudis have anything effective against drones yet. Also on the maintenance side of things, all of their military equipment is contracted out for maintenance, APC's to aircraft.

Turkey just purchased S400's. 

The refinery attack were missiles supposedly from Iraqi militia.  

Even though some evidence looked like the attack came from the West.  False Flag ?

 

Edited May 11, 2020 by BLA

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

53 minutes ago, El Gato said:

Anti-missile and anti-aircraft are two different things. All the shoot downs by Turkey have been air-to-air so far. So thus far the system hasn't shot anything down in Turkey yet. And the lat I read, all of the components are not there yet to set up a battery. Some missiles can shoot down both aircraft and missiles, suck as the Patriot, the SM-3, and SM-6, and most others can't. or haven't proven the capability.

On the Saudi Patriots, they are being rotated back to the states along with 2 other systems in the ME. Aside from them not being on when the refinery attacks, Patriots would not work on low slow flying targets either. They are a medium low altitude to a medium high altitude weapon system. A low and slow drone attack would have never registered on their systems.I'm not sure  the Saudis have anything effective against drones yet. Also on the maintenance side of things, all of their military equipment is contracted out for maintenance, APC's to aircraft.

Such blatant Bull Shit spread liberally from first to last sentence I do not know where to start frankly. Speed/altitude of an object DOES NOT MATTER except very high in both cases.  Percentage of intercepts gets worse the lower you go as interference due to the RADAR in terrain.  This is true of everything other than the most modern most powerful RADAR's on front line fighters today and even THEY have major problems. Low speed does not matter(according to you hovering helicopters hiding in terrain are invisible... 🤣).  Only thing that matters is HIGH speed combined with IR/RADAR jamming/spoofing be it from an aircraft or the ground backscatter. 

[El Gato + 254]

Uh, yes, speed and altitude matter greatly. The THAAD system covers the higher altitudes and potentially the Ballistic missiles in the atmosphere. To hit something low and slow, such a quadcopter drone, the software in the Patriots system is designed to filter out slower and smaller objects, like birds, otherwise it would target EVERYTHING. And you don't use a rifle to hunt a goose, you use a shotgun. Same theory applies to drones. You lase them, jam them or put lots of metal down range. And helicopters are way larger than a drone and put out a lot more high heat signature. Good for MANPADS systems to target. And yes helos can hide in the terrain from the radar, as long as they are below the radar 's lower edge horizon. That's old cold war doctrine for the army

[Piotr Berman + 82]

With current prices, not worth attacking, not worth defending.  But is it worthwhile to move the installations back and forth?

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190]

19 hours ago, El Gato said:

To hit something low and slow, such a quadcopter drone, the software in the Patriots system is designed to filter out slower and smaller objects, like birds, otherwise it would target EVERYTHING.

A bird's RADAR return is nothing like that of Plastic/metal machine be it missile, or light plane/drone.  Might want to update your "knowledge" from the 1970's/WWII. Patriot missiles have continuously been updated.  Give you a hint: you can easily see the RADAR difference between a log and a kayak and have been able to do so for many many decades. 

Now if you WISH to throw a million dollar missile at a thousand dollar drone: that is your choice.  Saying it can't be done is beyond stupid.  You have to have RADAR operators for a reason

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 5/8/2020 at 1:46 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

So the S-400 has actually been used as an anti-missile weapon? Where?

I believe it did a bang up job shooting down an unarmed Malaysian airliner over Ukraine a while back. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

I believe it did a bang up job shooting down an unarmed Malaysian airliner over Ukraine a while back. 

And that was by accident.  Imagine what they could hit if they were aiming!

[James Regan + 1,776]

On 5/9/2020 at 8:09 PM, BLA said:

" .  .  as we were heavily involved bombing Libya in the 80s .  ." 

James who is "we"

Bla- Its hard to address or debate some of your posts in full so its easier to cherry pick and work through it, that way we don't overlook important points of modern history that are pertinent as to where we find ourselves today. "WE" in this case would be the UK and the USA training to assassinate or murder Gaddafi in his home, they killed his daughter apparently instead, which he never really forgave them for, and this was in retaliation for the  bombings in Germany on US soldiers all very complicated and enabled them (WE) to try and take out the head of the country who was also  training the IRA with anti tank and bomb making techniques in camps and in-house training in southern Ireland who were training to bomb civilians and soldiers in Northern Ireland and if possible mainland UK targets. Then he ended up sanctioning retaliation by way of the Pan Am bombing over Lockerbie, two birds with one stone.

I think its fundamental when putting out a post that as much as possible is included, its not all black and white or so straight forward of having an opinion based on todays daily changing news or political opinions. Your post you immediately go to Reagan and how you bombed him, at no point is there a mention of the assistance given by the UK based US F1-11s at Lakenheath, Greenham Common etc, and resistance given by France etc which almost derailed the missions.

Its too easy to try and debate an opinion on this forum which have massive implications your just using up your time and/or filling your day with whats required which is all okay, but you should remember there are other countries in the world many allies of the USA, These posts become benign and easily read over with little or no thought, I paid it the thought I felt it deserved and that was my take away, if you don't understand it that's fine, I don't understand a lot of posts but at least I replied to yours so thats a good thing isn't it?

Edited May 11, 2020 by James Regan

[BLA + 1,666]

1 hour ago, James Regan said:

Bla- Its hard to address or debate some of your posts in full so its easier to cherry pick and work through it, that way we don't overlook important points of modern history that are pertinent as to where we find ourselves today. "WE" in this case would be the UK and the USA training to assassinate or murder Gaddafi in his home, they killed his daughter apparently instead, which he never really forgave them for, and this was in retaliation for the  bombings in Germany on US soldiers all very complicated and enabled them (WE) to try and take out the head of the country who was also  training the IRA with anti tank and bomb making techniques in camps and in-house training in southern Ireland who were training to bomb civilians and soldiers in Northern Ireland and if possible mainland UK targets. Then he ended up sanctioning retaliation by way of the Pan Am bombing over Lockerbie, two birds with one stone.

I think its fundamental when putting out a post that as much as possible is included, its not all black and white or so straight forward of having an opinion based on todays daily changing news or political opinions. Your post you immediately go to Reagan and how you bombed him, at no point is there a mention of the assistance given by the UK based US F1-11s at Lakenheath, Greenham Common etc, and resistance given by France etc which almost derailed the missions.

Its too easy to try and debate an opinion on this forum which have massive implications your just using up your time and/or filling your day with whats required which is all okay, but you should remember there are other countries in the world many allies of the USA, These posts become benign and easily read over with little or no thought, I paid it the thought I felt it deserved and that was my take away, if you don't understand it that's fine, I don't understand a lot of posts but at least I replied to yours so thats a good thing isn't it?

James 

Just read your long rambling discourse. (above) 

Trying to figure out what your point is ? 

Thanks for answering my original question.  "We" refers to U.S. and U.k. 

 

Thanks.

[Marcin2 + 725]

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Edited May 19, 2020 by Marcin2
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[0R0 + 6,251]

https://news.yahoo.com/in-court-filing-fbi-accidentally-reveals-name-of-saudi-official-suspected-of-directing-support-for-911-hijackers-224555851.html

So threats against Saudi are being reflected in actual action. 

FBI just "accidentally" released a Saudi bound political missile.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 5/12/2020 at 4:28 AM, Marcin2 said:

They did it with Buk. „They” we do not know whom, but most probably mistake of either side.

Airliner 550 miles per hour at 30,000 feet cruising altitude is a very easy target you can shot down with 1960’s technology just like Buk. S-400 is meant for 4.5th generation aircraft maybe even for F-35. I think that even S-300has radar good enough to not mistake 60 meters airliner for  20 meters span Mig or Su fighters.

Fantastic evaluation! I’ll keep you in the Rolodex for when I need an arms expert in the future!👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 5/9/2020 at 10:34 AM, Tom Kirkman said:

Went walking by the river, looks like the beavers are busy again.

Looks like two more stumps in the background of that photo!  Busy little fellas. But what do they do with the knocked-down tree?  Way too big to drag off to build their beaver dam.  Maybe they work for some fly-by-night lumber company!

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Leave it to beaver!  On PBS.  Fascinating creatures.

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

On 5/11/2020 at 10:33 AM, James Regan said:

and resistance given by France etc which almost derailed the missions.

Juast to clarify this aspect of the bombing of The Colonel down in Libya:

In planning the mission, the US military made a request to the French for "overfly rights" to go direct from their base in the UK to the Lybian target.  Permission was Denied.  What the Americans did not grasp was that the Denial was strictly "pro-forma;"  it is part of the French mentality to deny anything and everything, in order for them to wrap themselves in the Tri-coleur, and show their independence of everyone, specifically including the very powerful Americans.   However, the French were stunned when later the Americans flew those planes out over the Atlantic and around Gibralter, in order to maintain distance from French soil;  they fully expected the Americans to ignore the Denial of airspace transit use.  What you really had there was a clash of cultures; the Americans simply did not understand the French mentality. 

The only reason that Ghaddafi was not killed was that he was out of his desert tent at the moment the bombs hit.  The tent was obliterated.  The Colonel had put up this sheik's tent in the compound backyard, in order to impress "the People" that he was this man of the desert.  the calculatioin was that he must have gone inside to use the toilet at the exact moment the jets streaked in.  Yes, his daughter was in the tent also, and she was killed.  That part was a miscalculation; the Americans did not know or grasp that he would have anyone in there with him.  

It is my view that the US air force whould have gone back there the next night and finished the job, whacking the entire palace, and acdept the "collateral damage."  It woud have saved everyone in that Pan Am flight that Ghaddafi whacked.  Even I saw that one coming.  If you are not prepared to go all the way, then don't even attempt it.  

Sometimes these "surgical strikes" work out spectacularly.  Case in point: the whacking of General Soleimani, the head of the notorious Iranian "Republican Guards" that was responsible for thousands of killings.   Dropping a guided bomb into his back pocket made it perfectly clear that the US had the technical ability to target anyone, anywhere on the planet, by a man sitting in a room on a base in Nevada.  rather spectacular, if you ask me. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

I think it was actually a Hellfire missile in the back pocket....but that is nit picking.😂

[El Nikko + 2,145]

4 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I think it was actually a Hellfire missile in the back pocket....but that is nit picking.😂

A bayonet up the back passage is what finished him off apparently 😮

[M_Ali + 32]

A combined array of global and national strategic policies consisting of Monetary, Fiscal, Military, Plandemic & Lockdown - other extreme options in the works – is being implemented in characteristically conspiratorial earnest by the Deep State of Debt Manufacturing Industry bent on flattening the following Deficit/Debt Bar Chart targeting both home consumers and foreign exporters of manufactured goods and energy come what may. US/UK joint global hegemonic Debt Exporting venture have lost the Free Trade & Globalism Gamble to Auto & Oil exporters facing colossal Debt & Deficit they can’t repay or reverse. So "Wuhan Virus" makes a convincing and convenient case for compensation claims against CCP now that UK follows US in second place in terms of number deaths worldwide due to the Plandemic, code name COVID-19.  

But the thick snake oil doctors of debt manufacturing industry don’t seem to understand or pretend not to that the colossal and irreversible Trade Deficit/Debt (Dr Keynes/Dr Friedman Prescriptions)  accrued year after year to fund the national budget planned deficits to meet the Great Expectations of the Great Society, and MIC wars of death and destruction around the world is the product in most part of the collapse of gold backed dollar, Easy money Printing in astronomical Quantifies, QE/TBs merchandising trickery.

Their diagnosis and prognosis as always predictably leads to more of the same, shock money therapy, more debt. It’s like trying to help an addict to recovery by making him take more drugs.

Blaming Xi, Putin, Castro, Ortega, Kim, MBS, Ayatollahs, Maduro, Palme, Erdogan, Asad, Nasralah.. all the foreign non-English speaking boogie men as the cause of self-inflicted political, economic and social ills brought upon the nation of the Empire of Debt by its ruling debt hungry elites is self-misleading and ultimately self-destructing.