Not much going on.

[nsdp + 449]

9 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

@Tom Kirkman,I was wondering how long it would take for the admittedly impetuous Elon to run afoul of the insipid and phlegmatic bureaucrats of California and pull his factory out of there.   I am surprised he stuck it out as long as he did.  Bye-bye electric car nirvana for the loonie greenies in Cali!

We will see when he has to pay back his tax concessions.   Couldn't happen to a more appropriate bastard under age 70.   SEC reg's give CA the whip hand.   Musk has promised too much in his secondary offerings.   Maybe he wants to retire to the Robert Stroud Suite in Kansas.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 hour ago, nsdp said:

We will see when he has to pay back his tax concessions.

The Company leaves and it pays nothing.  and the "concessions" are not reimbursed, the rationale is that it is the government agents that make opperatioins there impossible.  A legal concept expressed in "estoppel." 

 

1 hour ago, nsdp said:

Couldn't happen to a more appropriate bastard under age 70

Simply because you dislike him does not count for creating adverse regulatory actions.

1 hour ago, nsdp said:

SEC reg's give CA the whip hand.

No they don't.  Musk declares Force Majeure. 

 

1 hour ago, nsdp said:

Maybe he wants to retire to the Robert Stroud Suite in Kansas.

You are confusing civil liabilities with criminal penalties.  Musk is going somewhere, it is to his new HQ located in Texas.  Just watch. 

Edited May 10, 2020 by Jan van Eck

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

31 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Musk is going somewhere, it is to his new HQ located in Texas.  Just watch. 

That may also be the key to breaking into the pickup truck market.  Always thinking.

[nsdp + 449]

4 hours ago, Jan van Eck said:

The Company leaves and it pays nothing.  and the "concessions" are not reimbursed, the rationale is that it is the government agents that make opperatioins there impossible.  A legal concept expressed in "estoppel." 

 

Simply because you dislike him does not count for creating adverse regulatory actions.

No they don't.  Musk declares Force Majeure. 

 

You are confusing civil liabilities with criminal penalties.  Musk is going somewhere, it is to his new HQ located in Texas.  Just watch. 

You read the the tax abatement cases there is no :horse manure clause" allowed.  I have done compliance law for 43 years.  COVID is not going to qualify since it is a matter of health and public safety not an act of nature.  It is not a matter of physical impossibility.  That was settled well back 100 years ago in the Spanish flu epidemic.  If it were force majure , every time Congress or the courts require new pollution standards, every polluter out there would cry force majure.

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

26 minutes ago, nsdp said:

COVID is not going to qualify since it is a matter of health and public safety not an act of nature.  It is not a matter of physical impossibility.

Just a moment.  Some bureaucrat is busy moving the goalposts.  If you don't want to call it Force Majeure, then call it breach of contract.  Either way, it is the bureaucrat that is making the production operation impossible.  So the plant moves.  California doesn't like it, let them go sue Elon.  That should be interesting. 

What would be the venue?  Texas?  I don't see a Texas jury handing some Cali state attorney general one thin dime.   Cali?  Well, Musk is not there, so now what?   How do you serve him?  How do you sue him?  How do you collect from him?   OK, you can attempt to seize his inventory of cars left in the State, but that vaporizes when Elon requires the customers to take delivery in Nevada.  Bye-bye, Cali. 

Meanwhile, no plant.  No jobs.  No tax revenues.  No nothing.  Real smart, that bureaucrat.   Real smart fellow. 

[nsdp + 449]

18 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Just a moment.  Some bureaucrat is busy moving the goalposts.  If you don't want to call it Force Majeure, then call it breach of contract.  Either way, it is the bureaucrat that is making the production operation impossible.  So the plant moves.  California doesn't like it, let them go sue Elon.  That should be interesting. 

What would be the venue?  Texas?  I don't see a Texas jury handing some Cali state attorney general one thin dime.   Cali?  Well, Musk is not there, so now what?   How do you serve him?  How do you sue him?  How do you collect from him?   OK, you can attempt to seize his inventory of cars left in the State, but that vaporizes when Elon requires the customers to take delivery in Nevada.  Bye-bye, Cali. 

Meanwhile, no plant.  No jobs.  No tax revenues.  No nothing.  Real smart, that bureaucrat.   Real smart fellow. 

Venue is California where they are currently headquartered or Delaware where they are incorporated if California files. .  If Tesla files the suit it has to be in California. 5th Circuit  Federal court has no jurisdiction over the state of California.  Clerks won't even accept the filing or issue the citation.   Immediate Rule 11 sanction against Tesla's attorneys  and the board of directors personally for even trying  Where do you guys  get such idiotic ideas on the rules of procedure?  Don't remember Pennzoil vs Texaco?  As for smart, that bureaucrat is infinitely smarter then you are.

Edited May 11, 2020 by nsdp

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

1 minute ago, nsdp said:

Venue is California where they are currently headquartered or Delaware where they are incorporated if California files. .  If Tesla files the suit it has to be in California. 5th Circuit  Federal court has no jurisdiction over the state of California.  Clerks won't even accept the filing.  Where do you guys  get such idiotic ideas on the rules of procedure?

Who said anything about TESLA suing?  You posited that Cali would want some of its money back for that Fremont plant venture.  Musk leaves, he takes the machinery out, and Cali is left with a nice dance hall.  If Cali does not like it, they can attempt to recover from whatever entity signed with them.  If that is the current Tesla and there is no Tesla in Cali any more, then you have classic diversity of jurisdictioon and Cali can attempt to go sue in Delaware under Sec. 1331. Or they can try in Texas and take their chances with a Texas Jury. How you get venue in Cali against a defendant with no presence in the State is bizarre, I don't see your reasoning. 

There is also nothing to stop Elon from incorporating a new Tesla venture in Texas as a Texas corporation, and Cali can go stand in line behind all the secured creditors of Old Tesla.  Lotsa luck on that project, considering how tesla (old tesla) is well out of the money.  

Would Elon go sue the State of Cali or the County of Alameda?  Why should he?  Why bother?  He has bigger things to go do.  He just picks up his machinery and walks away.  Bye bye Alameda County Health Officer. 

[nsdp + 449]

19 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

Who said anything about TESLA suing?  You posited that Cali would want some of its money back for that Fremont plant venture.  Musk leaves, he takes the machinery out, and Cali is left with a nice dance hall.  If Cali does not like it, they can attempt to recover from whatever entity signed with them.  If that is the current Tesla and there is no Tesla in Cali any more, then you have classic diversity of jurisdictioon and Cali can attempt to go sue in Delaware under Sec. 1331. Or they can try in Texas and take their chances with a Texas Jury. How you get venue in Cali against a defendant with no presence in the State is bizarre, I don't see your reasoning. 

There is also nothing to stop Elon from incorporating a new Tesla venture in Texas as a Texas corporation, and Cali can go stand in line behind all the secured creditors of Old Tesla.  Lotsa luck on that project, considering how tesla (old tesla) is well out of the money.  

Would Elon go sue the State of Cali or the County of Alameda?  Why should he?  Why bother?  He has bigger things to go do.  He just picks up his machinery and walks away.  Bye bye Alameda County Health Officer. 

You are denser than a cedar fence post. US District Court in Delaware  has no more jurisdiction than US District Court in Texas in a suit against California. His only option in Delaware is Bankruptcy Court. As to compelling Mr. Musk to appear in California that is what the US Marshals Service and ConAir are for if he doesn't return voluntarily. Tehy will have a perverse fun time doing the Perp Walk and the strip search of body cavities on Mr. Musk.  Jurisdiction is called Long Arm Jurisdiction. FRCP Rule 4.  California federal courts have it in this case Texas and Delaware  do not under 28 USC.  Delaware does under 11 USC for a bankruptcy only. You cannot just run away and hide.

I really wish all lawyers I have had to deal with were as dumb as you are.  Life would be so simple.

Edited May 11, 2020 by nsdp

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Now this is an interesting conversation.  Please proceed.  Elon may be watching, too.

[nsdp + 449]

9 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Now this is an interesting conversation.  Please proceed.  Elon may be watching, too.

Getting ready for his strip search and Perp Walk??

Edited May 11, 2020 by nsdp

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

4 hours ago, nsdp said:

You are denser than a cedar fence post.

... I really wish all lawyers I have had to deal with were as dumb as you are.  Life would be so simple.

My reaction when people call Jan dumb ...

[0R0 + 6,251]

11 hours ago, nsdp said:

We will see when he has to pay back his tax concessions.   Couldn't happen to a more appropriate bastard under age 70.   SEC reg's give CA the whip hand.   Musk has promised too much in his secondary offerings.   Maybe he wants to retire to the Robert Stroud Suite in Kansas.

Hid tax concessions are on the Fremont plant, which they are not letting him operate. So they are in breach already. It was the HQ he is talking of moving. Which he probably will.  If I were in his position, I would sue Newsom and his favorite Alameda co. officials criminally under the Federal unconstitutional acts by government officials law, title 18, if he can get the feds with him. And a section 1823 suit against all the relevant officials. 

 

[nsdp + 449]

18 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Hid tax concessions are on the Fremont plant, which they are not letting him operate. So they are in breach already. It was the HQ he is talking of moving. Which he probably will.  If I were in his position, I would sue Newsom and his favorite Alameda co. officials criminally under the Federal unconstitutional acts by government officials law, title 18, if he can get the feds with him. And a section 1823 suit against all the relevant officials. 

 

Obviously you have never seen the results of United States vs. Montgomery Ward and Sewell Avery. https://buzzbrown.blogspot.com/2009/04/history-matters-montgomery-ward.html Picture of Mr. Avery on his way to the brig at  Great Lakes Naval Station.   Remember President Trump has designated California as a disaster area and issued declaration of emergency for California so he can build his border wall.

That means Mr. Musk's defiance will be treated the same way as Mr. Avery's was.  Locked up until he purges himself of contempt and until he agrees to obey health orders in writing.   As Mr. Avery found out no writ of Habeas Corpus  for violations of emergency orders.  Ever hear of wht happened to Orville Faubus or Ross Barnet or George Wallace.  You don't stand in front of the National Guard or the 101st Airborne or the 82nd when they come to town to enforce the law. Abraham Lincoln settled that in 1864.

This is especially hilarious :"If I were in his position, I would sue Newsom and his favorite Alameda co. officials criminally under the Federal unconstitutional acts by government officials law, title 18, if he can get the feds with him. And a section 1823 suit against all the relevant officials."  Read below:

https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/training/online-learning-center/supporting-materials/Imposition-of-Restitution-in-Federal-Criminal-Cases.pdf

You better be glad that the Civil Rights Act of 1965 banned literacy tests.

 

Edited May 12, 2020 by nsdp

[nsdp + 449]

18 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

My reaction when people call Jan dumb ...

is geared to

Tom here is a veery basic  course in US Constitutional Law which includes a sample test that I bet neither one of you could pass alone or in collaboration with each other.  It's level is geared to those who went to the Robert S McNamara US Army Basic training course.  Did you graduate or were you like President Bone Spurs.

Mark Twain - Understanding the U.S. Constitution, Grades 5 - 12 Paperback – https://www.amazon.com/dp/1622236912?tag=duckduckgo-ffsb-20&linkCode=osi&th=1&psc=1

A couple of books for a cram course to help you pass the test.

The Practical Geologist: The Introductory Guide to the Basics of Geology and Holes in the Ground Paperback – August 15 https://www.amazon.com/Practical-Geologist-Introductory-Collec

and 

Procto-Basics A Text of Basic Proctology Hardcover – January 1, 1978 https://www.amazon.com/Procto-Basics-Text-Basic-Proctology-Carlton/dp/B004BH5VSE/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=proctology&qid=1589254965&s=books&sr=1-1