World looks on in horror as Trump flails over pandemic despite claims US leads way

[PTakacs + 59]

8 hours ago, 0R0 said:

It is viewed as a specific mission from the CCP to send infected people to particular destinations.

But they somehow skipped HK? I mean one infected in the crowd of protesters or those cramped buildings with "human cages" would have done the trick in Dec or January. And not Taiwan either? Taiwan did not start screening until January. They could have sent someone in Dec. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by PTakacs

[PTakacs + 59]

8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Or, like other countries, simply commandeered already existing, suitable structures such as libraries, schools and sports arenas which already had power, water and sewage facilities.

This whole ‘hospital in a week’ was simply propaganda for the masses.

But our (Western) journalists were there to witness the building process. I mean there are videos shot by our journalists. 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

9 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

But they somehow skipped HK? I mean one infected in the crowd of protesters or those cramped buildings with "human cages" would have done the trick in Dec or January. And not Taiwan either? Taiwan did not start screening until January. They could have send someone in Dec. 

HK people are wearing masks on the protests, which were mostly outdoors activities. Vietnam Gov didn't do anything when Wuhan locked down and still had thousands of Chinese were touring around or running away from the  Wuhan virus. People stills go to temples, beaches, gathering together for Lunar New Year and it seems okay because everyone is with a mask and ride their own motorbikes. 

Weather and lifestyle is the key different in spreading any commutable disease. Not the government activities although lots of governments take credits for that. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by SUZNV

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

7 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

But our (Western) journalists were there to witness the building process. I mean there are videos shot by our journalists. 

Please provide some kind of evidence of this assertion.  The Chinese government set up the cameras and then provided the feed to Western news outlets.  Or, please provide your evidence.

[PTakacs + 59]

17 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Please provide some kind of evidence of this assertion.  The Chinese government set up the cameras and then provided the feed to Western news outlets.  Or, please provide your evidence.

One can always dispute who actually shot the videos, and it cannot be proven unless the cameraman actually has rotated the camera to take a shot of himself. But I think satellite pictures should do. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51245156

https://www.axios.com/the-coronavirus-from-space-cc334b44-a5e4-432c-95db-0c4f0fc6659e.html

I am not endorsing any of the outlets. I just googled the relevant satellite pictures. If the hospitals were not built in a few days (i.e., they were already there previously), I assume our media would have exploded!

Let me turn the table on you -- have you found any satellite pictures that show large-scale pre-existing structures at any of the sites? Not trying to challenge you, but I am actually interested in this. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by PTakacs

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Just now, PTakacs said:

One can always dispute who actually shot the videos, and it cannot be proven unless the cameraman actually has rotated the camera to take a shot of himself. But I think satellite pictures should do. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51245156

https://www.axios.com/the-coronavirus-from-space-cc334b44-a5e4-432c-95db-0c4f0fc6659e.html

I am not endorsing any of the outlets. I just googled the relevant satellite pictures. If the hospitals were not built in a few days (i.e., they were already there previously), I assume our media would have exploded!

I guarantee if someone like CNN had taken the video, they'd have copyrighted it and put their name in the corner. That's how they roll, they license the content to other providers. 

No one's disputing that a building went up quickly. Just who filmed it, and whether we got the True story. In Chinese language papers, they speculated that the insides shown weren't legit. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

One can always dispute who actually shot the videos, and it cannot be proven unless the cameraman actually has rotated the camera to take a shot of himself. But I think satellite pictures should do. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51245156

https://www.axios.com/the-coronavirus-from-space-cc334b44-a5e4-432c-95db-0c4f0fc6659e.html

I am not endorsing any of the outlets. I just googled the relevant satellite pictures. If the hospitals were not built in a few days (i.e., they were already there previously), I assume our media would have exploded!

One can always remember one's assertions; "But our (Western) journalists were there to witness the building process. I mean there are videos shot by our journalists."

[PTakacs + 59]

10 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

One can always remember one's assertions; "But our (Western) journalists were there to witness the building process. I mean there are videos shot by our journalists."

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-s-coronavirus-hospital-built-10-days-opens-its-doors-n1128531

I am working, so I cannot listen to the video. But it has the NBC's logo, and the guy appears to be one of our journalists (I could be wrong here). The pictures below the video are imprinted with "AFP - Getty Images", so they are not owned by the Chinese. I of course have no means to trace who actually shot them. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by PTakacs

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

12 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/china-s-coronavirus-hospital-built-10-days-opens-its-doors-n1128531

I am working, so I cannot listen to the video. But it has the NBC's logo, and the guy appears to be one of our journalists. The pictures below the video are imprinted with "AFP - Getty Images", so they are not owned by the Chinese. I of course have no means to trace who actually shot them. 

You made a claim.  You doubled down on the claim.  You had no idea whether any western journo's were within 1,000 miles of the place.  You will not say you stretched your claim too far and you were wrong.  

Your latest attempt linked a news article, and the title/headline of that new article says: "China's coronavirus hospital built in 10 days opens its doors, state media says"

Edited May 19, 2020 by Dan Warnick
h

[PTakacs + 59]

21 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

You made a claim.  You doubled down on the claim.  You had no idea whether any western journo's where within 1,000 miles of the place.  You will not say you stretched your claim too far and you were wrong.  

Your latest attempt linked a news article, and the title/headline of that new article says: "China's coronavirus hospital built in 10 days opens its doors, state media says"

I stand corrected. I have not had the time, therefore have not been able, to find a video shot by a bona fide western journalist of the hospital building process. 

What is being disputed here? I previously thought it's about the timing and existence, which could be more concretely proven, IMO, through the satellite pictures. But that does not appear to be the case -- is the sole point being who shot the videos? If that is indeed the case, I am sorry that I was wrong in having such a high level of confidence about knowing the exact identity of the cameramen. Up on further reflection, I really don't. Moreover, I wasn't there, I didn't shoot any videos myself, and I really have no idea who shot what video.

Edited May 19, 2020 by PTakacs

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

6 minutes ago, PTakacs said:

I stand corrected. I have not had the time, therefore have not been able, to find a video shot by a bona fide western journalist of the hospital building process. 

What is being disputed here? I previously thought it's about the timing and existence, which could be more concretely proven, IMO, through the satellite pictures. But that does not appear to be the case -- is the sole point being who shot the videos? If that is indeed the case, I am sorry that I was wrong in having such a high level of confidence about knowing the exact identity of the cameramen. Up on further reflection, I really don't. Moreover, I wasn't there, I didn't shoot any videos myself, and I really have no idea who shot what video.

Nope.  You made a claim.  I knew it was wrong.  Nothing more;nothing less.  Please do carry on.

[PTakacs + 59]

21 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Nope.  You made a claim.  I knew it was wrong.  Nothing more;nothing less.  Please do carry on.

 

Never mind my edited post, I think carrying on is the better advice. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by PTakacs

[PTakacs + 59]

1 hour ago, SUZNV said:

HK people are wearing masks on the protests, which were mostly outdoors activities. Vietnam Gov didn't do anything when Wuhan locked down and still had thousands of Chinese were touring around or running away from the  Wuhan virus. People stills go to temples, beaches, gathering together for Lunar New Year and it seems okay because everyone is with a mask and ride their own motorbikes. 

Weather and lifestyle is the key different in spreading any commutable disease. Not the government activities although lots of governments take credits for that. 

Perhaps. Carrying on then. 

 

Edited May 19, 2020 by PTakacs

[LiamP + 168]

14 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Singapore deaths were almost all caused by two "tourists" from Wuhan who just happened to visit the two largest churches there on the same day even though they're miles apart. 

 

13 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

I had no idea about Singapore. Is there a known reason they went to separate churches? Is it suspected they knew each other?

 

12 hours ago, 0R0 said:

It is viewed as a specific mission from the CCP to send infected people to particular destinations.

Sigh. Wherever you got that from it's a load of conspiratorial cobblers! The singapore church clusters were linked like this...

Married couple tourists from Wuhan, in 50s/60s I think it was, went to one of the churches, infected a bunch of people, this included another couple who then went for a CNY dinner and infected a bunch of people, this included a youngish lad who worked at the other church and so he brought it there.

How do I know? I was there at the time and following the situation microscopically, which was easy to do given the crazy amount of information that was being published and updated daily, including full reconstructed infection trees and almost enough info about each and every infectee one could probably identify them if one knew them!

This was also later widely publicised in the media as joining the dots between the two church clusters was the first significant achievement of the then new serological testing, so could dig out an article for sure.

I'm very sure there's plenty of real shenanigans going on in the world, but I'm also very sure theres much more made up crap that is spewed out then lapped up as fact and repeated by anyone who's worldview it agrees with, and this is a great example of the latter. Somewhat poisons the well and doesnt help the real truth come out!

[0R0 + 6,251]

52 minutes ago, LiamP said:

 

 

Sigh. Wherever you got that from it's a load of conspiratorial cobblers! The singapore church clusters were linked like this...

Married couple tourists from Wuhan, in 50s/60s I think it was, went to one of the churches, infected a bunch of people, this included another couple who then went for a CNY dinner and infected a bunch of people, this included a youngish lad who worked at the other church and so he brought it there.

How do I know? I was there at the time and following the situation microscopically, which was easy to do given the crazy amount of information that was being published and updated daily, including full reconstructed infection trees and almost enough info about each and every infectee one could probably identify them if one knew them!

This was also later widely publicised in the media as joining the dots between the two church clusters was the first significant achievement of the then new serological testing, so could dig out an article for sure.

I'm very sure there's plenty of real shenanigans going on in the world, but I'm also very sure theres much more made up crap that is spewed out then lapped up as fact and repeated by anyone who's worldview it agrees with, and this is a great example of the latter. Somewhat poisons the well and doesnt help the real truth come out!

Thanks, so the two churches were not infected directly by the same couple.

Good, one nefarious presumed plot less to consider. As you say, more than enough shenanigans going on.

[LiamP + 168]

23 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Thanks, so the two churches were not infected directly by the same couple.

Good, one nefarious presumed plot less to consider. As you say, more than enough shenanigans going on.

Not directly, no.

If interested...

https://www.straitstimes.com/singapore/grace-assembly-coronavirus-mystery-solved-mega-cluster-linked-to-2-wuhan-tourists-via-a

Still it's not like those two church 'mega clusters' were the only two seeds from Wuhan - there were various infections and little clusters associated with tour groups and individulals from Wuhan, or Singaporeans returning home from Wuhan, at the time. Made up all Singapore's first cases, and a bunch crossed over to JB and got things going there in Malaysia also, so plenty of material for anyone wanting to believe in deliberate seeding from China, just not this nefarious double church trip!

Did reinforce a habit of mine though - don't go to church :),

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, LiamP said:

Sigh. Wherever you got that from it's a load of conspiratorial cobblers! The singapore church clusters were linked like this...

Married couple tourists from Wuhan, in 50s/60s I think it was, went to one of the churches, infected a bunch of people, this included another couple who then went for a CNY dinner and infected a bunch of people, this included a youngish lad who worked at the other church and so he brought it there.

How do I know? I was there at the time and following the situation microscopically, which was easy to do given the crazy amount of information that was being published and updated daily, including full reconstructed infection trees and almost enough info about each and every infectee one could probably identify them if one knew them!

This was also later widely publicised in the media as joining the dots between the two church clusters was the first significant achievement of the then new serological testing, so could dig out an article for sure.

I'm very sure there's plenty of real shenanigans going on in the world, but I'm also very sure theres much more made up crap that is spewed out then lapped up as fact and repeated by anyone who's worldview it agrees with, and this is a great example of the latter. Somewhat poisons the well and doesnt help the real truth come out!

The fault could be mine, I'm not as fluent in mandarin as I'd like. I listened to news casts and the pastor's own videos on the subject. The confusion seems to be the use of nega (that) as in "that couple from Wuhan" followed by "that couple went to Grace Church".

Lancet discusses the methodology here

I'll try and come back with the graphic. I'm not the only one who was confused about this, multiple Chinese language sources concurred but I admit I stopped following this over a month ago. 

Edited May 19, 2020 by Ward Smith

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

BTW in my post above be careful How you say nega

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

9 hours ago, PTakacs said:

But our (Western) journalists were there to witness the building process. I mean there are videos shot by our journalists. 

What is your point? It was still propaganda and definitely NOT the most efficient method of creating an emergency medical facility.

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

 

On 5/16/2020 at 2:17 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Could have something to do with the size of the population...🤔

Every time I mention this to people they say "Well China is doing great and they have way more". Honestly, that's got to be peak CCP retardation. 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 5/19/2020 at 7:02 AM, PTakacs said:

One can always dispute who actually shot the videos, and it cannot be proven unless the cameraman actually has rotated the camera to take a shot of himself. But I think satellite pictures should do. 

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-51245156

https://www.axios.com/the-coronavirus-from-space-cc334b44-a5e4-432c-95db-0c4f0fc6659e.html

I am not endorsing any of the outlets. I just googled the relevant satellite pictures. If the hospitals were not built in a few days (i.e., they were already there previously), I assume our media would have exploded!

Let me turn the table on you -- have you found any satellite pictures that show large-scale pre-existing structures at any of the sites? Not trying to challenge you, but I am actually interested in this. 

I don't dispute there was a building that China called a hospital. From someone who's been in the construction industry many years, that 'hospital' was nothing more than a giant mobile home with dividers and medical equipment thrown in. Theres nothing special about being able to build a giant mobile home with dividers quickly. Thats why it was torn down.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 5/19/2020 at 8:03 AM, PTakacs said:

Perhaps. Carrying on then. 

 

I don't mean to come off as attacking you PTakacs, I give that to Frankfruter! I'm just trying to get you realize about 50% of what you see regarding China has basis in reality and 50% is smoke and mirrors. Sometimes it's 100% smoke and mirrors, go watch "The China Hustle". Chinas philosophy is "muddy water catches more fish". Confusion and deception isn't a bug, it's THE feature. Only problem is muddy waters even makes the Chinese confused and you get what just happened in the tech realm.

In HR McMasters new book he recounts a trip he took with Trump in 2017 for an official visit. After being led on a tour of the Forbidden City, Chinas Premiere declared to the US delegation, who included McMaster (then Nat. Sec Advisor) that "China developed it's economy and no longer needed America. From now on Americas place in the world was to provide China with raw materials and agricultural goods while China produced the machinery and high tech products of the future."

The CCP is so insane they convinced themselves they owned the tech sector when their whole industry depends on US tech. China just pointed a gun to their head and pulled the trigger.

Edited May 21, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing

[Joe Richards + 1]

Yoshiro is obviously a chinese communist sympathiser, or perhaps a rabid democrat. Trump has done a great job at handling the federal response to the virus.  the federals responded to the states as appropriate. And for the most parts the states are directing their own responses as is appropriate. About half the deaths are from new york, where the idiot cuomo insisted that nursing homes admit active corona cases.

 

And lets not forget it was the lying chinese communist party /gov who covered this thing up so it would spread across the world. So to blame anyone other than Xi Jinping is to lie and cover up the truth.

 

The only one flailing here it the liar Yoshiro flailing away with falsehoods on his computer.

[Joe Richards + 1]

Yoshiro is obviously a chinese communist sympathiser, or perhaps a rabid democrat. Trump has done a great job at handling the federal response to the virus.  the federals responded to the states as appropriate. And for the most parts the states are directing their own responses as is appropriate. About half the deaths are from new york, where the idiot cuomo insisted that nursing homes admit active corona cases.

 

And lets not forget it was the lying chinese communist party /gov who covered this thing up so it would spread across the world. So to blame anyone other than Xi Jinping is to lie and cover up the truth.

 

The only one flailing here it the liar Yoshiro flailing away with falsehoods on his computer.

[Joe Richards + 1]

Yoshiro is obviously a chinese communist sympathiser, or perhaps a rabid democrat. Trump has done a great job at handling the federal response to the virus.  the federals responded to the states as appropriate. And for the most parts the states are directing their own responses as is appropriate. About half the deaths are from new york, where the idiot cuomo insisted that nursing homes admit active corona cases.

 

And lets not forget it was the lying chinese communist party /gov who covered this thing up so it would spread across the world. So to blame anyone other than Xi Jinping is to lie and cover up the truth.

 

The only one flailing here it the liar Yoshiro flailing away with falsehoods on his computer.