Trumpe will win next election, hands down.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Some people insist that they "know" things because they accepted their indoctrination as if it were an education. I stopped accepting indoctrination substituting for education long before finishing high school. I went and took a look at what real evidence and data were available to me and learned that there are many perspectives and rarely are any of them true for more than a few steps through history.

Had I thought Jan was a putz I would have said so. I think he is simply a product of the mainstream fictional narratives we all know to distrust.

Ok.  So, if you'll forgive my ignorance, doesn't the word "indoctrinated" imply a deliberate effort to control or unduly influence a person's understanding of events, history, or otherwise available facts or beliefs?  

If that is the case, where and when do you infer that @Jan van Eck was "indoctrinated" into this set of beliefs?  Are you simply saying it was probably a part of his standard education curriculum, or that there must have been some kind of "special studies" at some point? 

Also, if I may, your implication would further seem to be that Jan was Indoctrinated, apparently, to have an opposition point of view when it comes to Jews?  Is that correct, or not?  I know that Jan has some strong views of the current Israeli government and, if I'm not mistaken, Benjamin Netanyahu in particular, so I would understand your feeling in this case.

However, as I know, Jan is Dutch, and, if I'm not mistaken, the Dutch are known to be pro-Jewish or friends of the Jewish people.  Again, please excuse me if this is not historically true, in general, of the Dutch people.

I do hope @Jan van Eck rejoins this conversation and gives his side of the issue, but in his current absence perhaps you would be kind enough to give your thoughts on the above, and if any of it changes your perception of Jan and/or his point of view?

 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

I don't know much about Jews history, but Roosevelt didn't dare to accept the Jews refugee from Germany in 1939, so the Jews community in the US may not that influence back then and noway the can have that influence right after WW2. And Ilhan Omar didn't get into much trouble with her comment on Israel, I guess their lobby association don't have that much influency now.

I am still puzzled why should the Western World give/return the Jews Jerusalem. Did they feel guilty about what the Jews suffered in Europe even before Nazi time? Did they want the Arab to kill off all these Jews by giving them back their lost land among Arab? Why many European moved to US after WW2, why US didn't take all of them instead, lots of wasteland in the US that need population. If they simply need a land for their nation, why not Africa or give them some islands. Any view on both sides is good to me.

Edited May 17, 2020 by SUZNV

[Marcin2 + 725]

ok

Edited May 19, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[SUZNV + 1,197]

4 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

I would not discuss modern Israeli-Arab politics cause I do not understand it. Only Some historical  and spiritual context.

Palestine was first inhabited by Jews  3,500 maybe 4,000 years ago. They believe that God gave them this place to live.

Jerusalem is the capital and the most holy place on Earth for Jews in both national and religious sense since at least Salomon built First Temple 1,000 BC so 3,000 years ago.

This is in Hebrew Bible ( which is part of Christian Bibles)

The sheer identity of Jews as Jews, chosen by God to  be his beloved nation is inseparately associated with Jerusalem.

I do not know whether I  can explain this, cause my knowledge about Jews is just from school, but I think that there is No other nation for which one certain place was (and is) as important for thousands of years as Jerusalem is important for Jews.

 

From my understanding in a much much raw form and have no offense intention from any religion:

Christain Bible = Hebrew Bible + new Statements about Jesus

Quoran = Hebrew Bible +new Statements about Jesus + Mohammad the Prophet (Jesus is  considered second prophet)

I think Jerusalem is important for both Hebrew, Islam and maybe Christian, but Christian has Vatican ,Orthodox Church and many other branches so I don't really know.

I am really curious But since when Western Europe and US care about the Jews' feeling (they didn't before that) and gave Jerusalem back. Simply because of the Holocaust? If for refugees purpose or a new nation for Jews to have a state of their own then any land will do.  What was the main intention to give them a disputed land which may have trouble in the first place.

 

 

 

Edited May 17, 2020 by SUZNV

[frankfurter + 562]

22 hours ago, 0R0 said:

As ever, a racist CCP perspective. Han Chinese as the top race of the world, all must bow to them and acquiesce.

Disgusting antisemitic drivel.

Go get yourself a CCP official and dump it out the window. You owe it to your people and the world.

The article was written by an American for Americans.  How you see a connection to China is beyond the bounds of reason. 

[frankfurter + 562]

22 hours ago, 0R0 said:

You are obviously disinformed about Jewish history.

You went on a data collection expedition to support a point of view rather than look from all sides to see the actual facts. You blame Jews for the hatred by the Roman empire that was embedded into the Catholic faith. And was retained into the Byzantine and Orthodox Churches and the Lutheran reform did not remove it.

The bottom line is that Jews had been in Europe from long before the Visigoths, Longobardi Ostrogoths and others invaded the failing Roman empire and took it over, intermingling, taking on Christiantity and becoming the majority of former Roman lands. Over repeated paroxysms of hate by the Catholic church trying to take its bite out of the Mediterranean trade that Jews had taken over, Jews were eventually ejected throughout the middle ages into Northern and Eastern Europe. They were EXPLICITLY invited into Poland to settle and provide merchant links for the benefit of Poland's economy upon its independence in 1025. Latin speaking scholars of the day called it Heaven for Jews=  paradisus iudaeorum   .

The hatred is of the latecomer invaders who took on the local traditions and displayed the newcomer's zeal against the Jews who did not integrate and did not pay the Church a tithe.

Your reading is upside down.

AIPAC is not about controlling America, it is about existing. It is a survival tactic against the hate of Christianity Islam and modern communism as displayed by the Nazis and the new Chinese Communist Party master race of Han Chinese. Survival is not a malignant action. Taking back ancestral land is not an invasion of malice, it was not the Crusades. The West Bank populations are mostly Jewish in origin. They just haven't accepted their ancestral religion after having been butchered by Byzantines to become Christian and by Mohamed's successors to become Moslem. They still identify with those who enslaved their ancestors.

You are deeply indoctrinated with cherry picked facts to support an antisemitic racist view. You need a major effort to re-educate yourself.

 

No, you are the one who is ignorant of 'Jewish' history.  Taking the entire history into account, the term, Jew, is a modern invention.  The religion is termed Judaism, not Jewism.  Why do you suppose the reason?  Hint: Judah was one of the twelve tribes: no tribe was named 'Jew'.  Why is the religion not named Israelism, or Benjaminism, or other tribal namesake?  To explain this, one must study the bible comprehensively.  The secret lies in the book attribtued to Nehemiah.  Nehemiah was a Judaite, who had risen to stand very high in the Persian king's favour, and who returned to the land of Judah as the king's emissary, accompanied by an army. There, with Ezra and certain Levites, he read a new law to the people of Judah: his law, not the king's, not the law of Moses. Nehemiah 8:9, 'for all the people wept, when they heard the words of the law'. Hint: the tears were not tears of joy. Nehemiah commanded and forced the people of Judah to: purge themselves of all foreign elements, including their foreign wives; marry and procreate only within the tribe; to rebuild the walls of Jerusalem; and inhabit the city to the exclusion of any and all outside the tribe.  Note; prior to this law, the people within the region of Judah were inter-married and inter-related with people outside their tribe.  Why the need for an army?  To enforce the new law. Thus, the Judaites adopted a purely racist creed and created the first ghetto.

The above is indisputable: the tale is per the bible itself. I await your next round of hate mail. 

 

 

[Shoes 4 Baby Jesus 0]

Your "history" of the jews has no relevance to reality.  Most of the jews to which we are referring are the ashkenazi variety whose origin is Ukraine in about the 10th century AD.  The semitic jews  are the Sephardim.  Askkenazim are the immigrants that became the west's bankers, slave traders, and mobsters (like Bugsy Siegal).

Dulles was not the origin of american advertising and so-called public relations.  That person was Eddie Bernays, a jew and the nephew of Siggie Freud.  He was the one that showed the women that smoking was the thing to do.  "You've come a long way baby."  Tobacco companies loved him.

[frankfurter + 562]

Correct. The Ashkenazi are interlopers, with no valid claim to the lands of Palestine. Your point simply underscores the falsehood. But to say the book of faith is irrelevant is, well, incorrect. Millions of people are willing to fight, slaughter, and die for their faith: I consider this to be highly relevant. 

 

[H Himmel + 1]

On 5/15/2020 at 11:38 PM, frankfurter said:

Trump is Israel's best friend.  Members of Congress have dual passports.  Banking heads have dual passports.  2008 bail out benefited bankers too big to fail. 2020 Covid $6 trillion, maybe more, bail out to benefit bankers and 'leading industries'.  Laws to prohibit criticism.  Never-ending fiscal and military support, to a country that has a budget surplus.  Only a matter of time for...

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/05/12/israel-to-annex-the-united-states-ambassador-predicts-a-deepening-connection/

 

This article is extremely biased, basically a lie without taking into account the real history of Israel's survival amidst the muslim enemies. Annexing the strategically importing Golan Heights after Israel won the war to avoid constant rocket attacks from there? I guess Israel was too liberal, it should've annexed more aggressors' land. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 5/17/2020 at 8:53 PM, frankfurter said:

Correct. The Ashkenazi are interlopers, with no valid claim to the lands of Palestine. Your point simply underscores the falsehood. But to say the book of faith is irrelevant is, well, incorrect. Millions of people are willing to fight, slaughter, and die for their faith: I consider this to be highly relevant. 

 

Genetically incorrect. Historically incorrect. The Ashkenazim came from the same Sephardic communities in the 11th century as they were being periodically exiled out of Italy and Spain and the Balkans, they were invited by the king of Poland to settle there in what is now Southern Poland, Western Ukraine and N. Hungary and N Romania Ashkenazi Jews are just as semitic as Sephardic Jews.

[frankfurter + 562]

13 hours ago, 0R0 said:

Genetically incorrect. Historically incorrect. The Ashkenazim came from the same Sephardic communities in the 11th century as they were being periodically exiled out of Italy and Spain and the Balkans, they were invited by the king of Poland to settle there in what is now Southern Poland, Western Ukraine and N. Hungary and N Romania Ashkenazi Jews are just as semitic as Sephardic Jews.

Really? Where is your proof?  As always, you offer none.  Consider...

"Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool."  [Nebel A, Filon D, Weiss DA, Weale M, Faerman M, Oppenheim A, Thomas MG (December 2000)]

In August 2012, Dr. Harry Ostrer summarized his and other work in genetics of the last 20 years, and concluded that all major Jewish groups share a common Middle Eastern origin. [Harry, Ostrer (2012). Legacy a Genetic History of the Jewish People. Oxford University Press].

The research demonstrates today's Jews share their genetic pool with all peoples in the Middle East. Thus a Jew has no unique marker and is not of a race distinct from other humans. Nothing in the genetics and history places the origins of today's Jews specifically in what we call Israel. The Jews of today are Jews because they say so. They claim Israel because they say so. Claiming to be something or somebody doesn't make it so.

 

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

@Jan van Eck

@0R0

@Dan Warnick
 

I was reading further up in the thread and saw where Jan may have been indoctrinated, and days ago he was accused of being ignorant. The sad fact is that ALL of us are somewhat indoctrinated by our unique experiences in life, and we are all somewhat ignorant simply because we don’t know everything about everything.

I do not agree with Jan on everything. He thinks Edam cheese is better than Pepper Jack and we have different attitudes towards Israel, Palestine and the Jewish agenda. That said, I can still appreciate his viewpoints on both issues....even if he is wrong!😂

You get alot of trash feedback on this forum, but you also get alot of insightful debate. If something ‘touches a nerve’ in you....you are not required to reply.

Let’s not ‘throw the baby out with the bath water’.

PS: If there is any question in the future, just assume that my opinion is the correct one!😅
 

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

54 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Really? Where is your proof?  As always, you offer none.  Consider...

"Our recent study of high-resolution microsatellite haplotypes demonstrated that a substantial portion of Y chromosomes of Jews (70%) and of Palestinian Muslim Arabs (82%) belonged to the same chromosome pool."  [Nebel A, Filon D, Weiss DA, Weale M, Faerman M, Oppenheim A, Thomas MG (December 2000)]

In August 2012, Dr. Harry Ostrer summarized his and other work in genetics of the last 20 years, and concluded that all major Jewish groups share a common Middle Eastern origin. [Harry, Ostrer (2012). Legacy a Genetic History of the Jewish People. Oxford University Press].

The research demonstrates today's Jews share their genetic pool with all peoples in the Middle East. Thus a Jew has no unique marker and is not of a race distinct from other humans. Nothing in the genetics and history places the origins of today's Jews specifically in what we call Israel. The Jews of today are Jews because they say so. They claim Israel because they say so. Claiming to be something or somebody doesn't make it so.

 

 

 

There are unique Jewish markers common to jews and some palestinians but not other middle eastern people. You do have more than a Y chromosome to look at, and Judaism is matrilinear. The strongest common genetic traits among Jews are found among the descendants of the Levites, or Cohen.Which are unique to the lineage and different both from other Jews and middle eastern peoples. The markers are present in about 97% of Levite families. Those markers are common to both Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews.

As you noted yourself, all branches of Jewery are descendants of the same middle eastern heritage. Your repeated attempt to redefine Jew's identity as something other than it is a repulsive antisemitic practice.

You can read up on the genetic topic in the book "The Uninterrupted Chain"

Your blatant racism echoes your CCP handler's attempt to legitimize and elevate their  position through a new found nationalism. The CCP are the dregs of the Soviet era, soon to go the Soviet way. Help them along, throw a CCP official out the window.

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

PS: If there is any question in the future, just assume that my opinion is the correct one!😅
 

Actually, that is seriously funny!

But where it goes off the rails is if you have a divergent view from that of Mr. Regan;  he is evein more seriously badass than you are, plus he rides motorcycles AND he shoots that monster gun!  So...in the crunch, his view must be righter than right! 😎

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 minute ago, Jan van Eck said:

Actually, that is seriously funny!

But where it goes off the rails is if you have a divergent view from that of Mr. Regan;  he is evein more seriously badass than you are, plus he rides motorcycles AND he shoots that monster gun!  So...in the crunch, his view must be righter than right! 😎

Incorrect young Jan! @James Regan is NOT more ‘badass’, he is simply Scottish. He does ride motorcycles, but he also  occasionally falls off of them them the day he buys them! Ask him to send you the clip as he is ejected off of his brand new BMW S1000RR - it is impressive! I, on the other hand, am still riding my classic 2012 Harley Nightrod Special 10th Anniversary Edition.

Lastly, I would like to point out that Jimmy was renting that Barrett .50, I, on the other hand, own my own little armory in Colorado....which does not do me a hell of alot of good here in KL!😂

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

45 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Incorrect young Jan! @James Regan is NOT more ‘badass’, he is simply Scottish. He does ride motorcycles, but he also  occasionally falls off of them them the day he buys them! Ask him to send you the clip as he is ejected off of his brand new BMW S1000RR - it is impressive! I, on the other hand, am still riding my classic 2012 Harley Nightrod Special 10th Anniversary Edition.

Lastly, I would like to point out that Jimmy was renting that Barrett .50, I, on the other hand, own my own little armory in Colorado....which does not do me a hell of alot of good here in KL!😂

We need photographic evidence of the "so-called" 2012 Harley Nightrod Special 10th Anniversary Edition.

You should be able to just ship your little armory in.  Jest tell the authorities it is to battle the Virus!  LOL!  I'll write to you while you serve out your sentence, I promise.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

2 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

We need photographic evidence of the "so-called" 2012 Harley Nightrod Special 10th Anniversary Edition.

You should be able to just ship your little armory in.  Jest tell the authorities it is to battle the Virus!  LOL!  I'll write to you while you serve out your sentence, I promise.

In Malaysia, if you are caught with a firearm, any component of a firearm, or any ammo....you go directly to jail! This is difficult for a guy from Colorado!

I do know a Malaysian Chinese guy who owns an indoor range here (trains bodyguards, police, etc...) so I can at least shoot 9mm’s and keep the muscle memory somewhat intact...

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

57 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Incorrect young Jan! @James Regan is NOT more ‘badass’, he is simply Scottish. He does ride motorcycles, but he also  occasionally falls off of them them the day he buys them! Ask him to send you the clip as he is ejected off of his brand new BMW S1000RR - it is impressive! I, on the other hand, am still riding my classic 2012 Harley Nightrod Special 10th Anniversary Edition.

 

6 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

 

 

@James Regan   do you have a badass picture of you in a traditional Scottish kilt with your motorcycle.

Since you and Douglas always seem to like comparing ... motorcycles.

[canadas canadas + 136]

On 5/15/2020 at 11:38 PM, frankfurter said:

Trump is Israel's best friend.  Members of Congress have dual passports.  Banking heads have dual passports.  2008 bail out benefited bankers too big to fail. 2020 Covid $6 trillion, maybe more, bail out to benefit bankers and 'leading industries'.  Laws to prohibit criticism.  Never-ending fiscal and military support, to a country that has a budget surplus.  Only a matter of time for...

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/05/12/israel-to-annex-the-united-states-ambassador-predicts-a-deepening-connection/

 

Find VT to be pro-Iranian news.

[canadas canadas + 136]

On 5/18/2020 at 9:58 AM, H Himmel said:

This article is extremely biased, basically a lie without taking into account the real history of Israel's survival amidst the muslim enemies. Annexing the strategically importing Golan Heights after Israel won the war to avoid constant rocket attacks from there? I guess Israel was too liberal, it should've annexed more aggressors' land. 

VT is a pro-Iranian news website.

[canadas canadas + 136]

On 5/15/2020 at 11:38 PM, frankfurter said:

Trump is Israel's best friend.  Members of Congress have dual passports.  Banking heads have dual passports.  2008 bail out benefited bankers too big to fail. 2020 Covid $6 trillion, maybe more, bail out to benefit bankers and 'leading industries'.  Laws to prohibit criticism.  Never-ending fiscal and military support, to a country that has a budget surplus.  Only a matter of time for...

https://www.veteranstoday.com/2020/05/12/israel-to-annex-the-united-states-ambassador-predicts-a-deepening-connection/

 

Sounds like how the West was won by the U.S. from others before them.  However, this concerns Israel and the West (Bank) now.

In U.S. history, Native Americans have lost the most followed by African Americans.  Two U.S. supported countries have been Liberia and Israel.

[canadas canadas + 136]

On 5/16/2020 at 1:08 PM, 0R0 said:

I am not a Zionist in my historical perspective. I am entirely supportive to Israel's existence today as the Zionist discussion was over in WWI. It is a fact of life on the ground. It is no longer a topic of conversation of consequence. The right of return was exercised by millions before 1960. It was already too late to discuss after the Balfour declaration. Thus the story is history. The time for this discussion to be relevant to any (but antisemites) was with Theodor Herzl or the zionist movement of the 1920s. Today it is just a historical artifact that the land of the Jews is where it is.

If you harbor hatred of Jews, go look for its causes in YOUR background.

 

On 5/16/2020 at 5:44 PM, Jee said:

We should be free to talk about Jews, good or bad, just like how we talk about Asians or whites. If that's anti-semitic, then you got a deep TRAINING curve to undo.

When it comes to minorities, they are judged as a whole mostly by their worst (or sometimes by their best) members and not as individuals.  This is unfair. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

15 minutes ago, canadas canadas said:

Sounds like how the West was won by the U.S. from others before them.  However, this concerns Israel and the West (Bank) now.

In U.S. history, Native Americans have lost the most followed by African Americans.  Two U.S. supported countries have been Liberia and Israel.

So what is your point?

[canadas canadas + 136]

On 5/16/2020 at 11:53 AM, Jan van Eck said:

Getting past the racist hyperbole and stentorian tone, unfortunately the underlying factual presentation is accurate.  the heftiest lobby in the USA today is "AIPAC," the American Israeli Political Action Committee.  It is run by Jews out of Brooklyn, New York, who are immigrants and sons of immigrants of Jews from mostly eastern Europe and Russia.  AIPAC is considered the "third rail" of US politics, as no politician wants to be tagged as an "Anit-Semite," notwithstanding that the Semites includes the Arab peoples of what is today called Judea and Samaria.  In US politics, anti-semite means a person who is a "racist" anti-Jewish activist who loathes Jews, and thus by definition must be shunned and dealt with harshly.  It is this mentality that is so actively promoted by AIPAC.  Everybody in Congress is terrified of being in the AIPAC crosshairs. 

Quote from the article:  "It is the site of the 1994 Ibrahimi Mosque massacre of Palestinian worshippers carried out by Brooklyn-born Jewish fanatic Baruch Goldstein. Twenty-nine Palestinians were killed. Yes, “biblical DNA” seems to fit just right if one considers the fate of the Canaanites."    Unfortunately, the US citizen Goldstein is not the only criminal murdering perpetrator inside Israel today.  thoe worst Jews in Israel are Americans.  Under Jewish Law any Jew form anywhere is treated as an Israeli Citizen under the "Right of Return," a concept that says any Jew can come back to the Middle east and claim some land for himself plus citizenship, never mind that his ancestors have been gone for two thousand years.   The influx of Jews into the Middle East is the number one cause of Middle east conflict.  Astute readers will recall the comment of Madeiline Albright, who when asked about this, said the Jews needed to "go back to Poland."  She got fired for that comment.  

The Jews cannot go back to Poland.  Europe did not welcome the influx of Jews over the centuries; they were uninvited guests who simply showed up and parked themselves in Europe.  the response of the Christian locals was to build those "Ghettos," walled inner cities inside cities, where ther gates were these massive wood-beamed structures that were closed at dusk and locked by huge timbers locked across the gates, then guarded by soldieers with pikes, those long poles with a spear tip on the end, to keep the Jews in and the Gentiles out.  total separation was the European response to the Jewish influxes.  And, every so many hundred years, a "pogrom" would take place and the Jews would be pushed out back to Russia at spearpoint, to reduce the numbers.  When WWII started, there were millions of Jews parked inside Poland, Hungary, Germany, and the Czech Republic; they were removed by force and put into camps, then later killed off.  The Europeans actively participated in the murder, and there is and was this long-standing loathing and disgust with the Jews and their personal practices.  Don't kid yourself that Jews were ever welcomed anywhere; they were not.

When WWII loomed, President Roosevelt  ("FDR") was faced with the issue of fleeing Jews headed for the USA for refuge from the nazis.  FDR refused to allow in-migration, stating that "The USA is not going to import Europe's problems."  The eminal moment was when the refugee ship "St. Louis" arrived in New York and was turned away.  That ship and its cargo of Jews had left Hamburg, gone to Havana Cuba, been rejected, gone to either Venezuela or Colombia or both, been rejected, gone to Mexico, rejected, New York, rejected, then to Halifax Canada, rejected, then back to Hamburg, where all were promptly arrested, shipped of to camps, then killed off.  It demonstrates that loathing of Jews is a world-wide phenomenon.  You have to aks yourself: what is it in Jewish behavior that brings out this response? 

Well, you see that behavior every single day in the Middle East.  the Jews have this attitude that they are the Chosen People of Cod, and thus that justifies avery and any atrocity and abuse of their neighbors.  And the reaction is unconstrained violence.   AIPAC is a plague on the USA.  AIPAC does more damage than just about anything to Americans  (and the American taxpayer). 

Haven't 10 times more Arabs been killed in Syria in 10 years than have been killed in over 70 years of Israeli-Palestinian conflict?