"Fracked gas contains high amounts of methane."

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

Some days the jokes just write themselves. 

Yep, that's an actual sentence used by anti - oil & gas activists.

 

Governor Cuomo Rejects The Williams Pipeline — #CleanEnergyWillWin

The Williams Pipeline was just rejected by New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.  It would have carried natural gas that had been fracked from Pennsylvania to parts of New York City.  This pipeline would have also trapped New York into several decades of dependence on fracked gas.  We need to ease off fossil fuels, in my opinion — not triple the dosage.

The proposal for the Williams Pipeline, named after the Oklahoma company behind the project, is to lay a new conduit under Lower New York Bay to carry gas from hydraulic fracturing sites in Pennsylvania to homes in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, and Long Island.  Fracked gas contains high amounts of methane.  Imagine if this was to have a leak and all of that gas got into the bay.  

Also, this would create potent emissions that would trap more heat in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide traps.  This would be completely opposite of what many advocates have been pushing for — the transition from fossil fuels to cleaner energy.  ...

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

15 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

Some days the jokes just write themselves. 

Yep, that's an actual sentence used by anti - oil & gas activists.

 

Governor Cuomo Rejects The Williams Pipeline — #CleanEnergyWillWin

The Williams Pipeline was just rejected by New York Governor Andrew Cuomo.  It would have carried natural gas that had been fracked from Pennsylvania to parts of New York City.  This pipeline would have also trapped New York into several decades of dependence on fracked gas.  We need to ease off fossil fuels, in my opinion — not triple the dosage.

The proposal for the Williams Pipeline, named after the Oklahoma company behind the project, is to lay a new conduit under Lower New York Bay to carry gas from hydraulic fracturing sites in Pennsylvania to homes in Brooklyn, Queens, Staten Island, and Long Island.  Fracked gas contains high amounts of methane.  Imagine if this was to have a leak and all of that gas got into the bay.  

Also, this would create potent emissions that would trap more heat in the atmosphere than carbon dioxide traps.  This would be completely opposite of what many advocates have been pushing for — the transition from fossil fuels to cleaner energy.  ...

 

Funny, but technically true.

"Gas" lines rarely contain pure dry gas.  The "produced water" is often quite dirty / salty.

I did several cases where all I had to do is demonstrate that the leaked water was high in chloride (simple ion chromatography).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Produced_waters

Still funny though, not quite as funny as injecting bleach...

Edited May 19, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

4 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Funny, but technically true.

"Gas" lines rarely contain pure dry gas.  The "produced water" is often quite dirty / salty.

I did several cases where all I had to do is demonstrate that the leaked water was high in chloride (simple ion chromatography).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Produced_waters

Still funny though, not quite as funny as injecting bleach...

 

But, but, but ...

"Imagine if this was to have a leak and all of that gas got into the bay. "

 

Oh the horror!

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Just now, Tom Kirkman said:

 

But, but, but ...

"Imagine if this was to have a leak and all of that gas got into the bay. "

 

Oh the horror!

 

Was funny.  The gas itself, of course, would not contaminate the water. The pipeline could.

[Meredith Poor + 898]

6 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

But, but, but ...

"Imagine if this was to have a leak and all of that gas got into the bay. "

 

Oh the horror!

 

Particularly horrible is the amount of methane already in the bay from decaying plant matter, including from lawn clippings dumped there by homeowners or their landscapers.

[Coffeeguyzz + 454]

Ms. Poor

 

When dams are built for hydro power/reservoir uses, the amount of forestry and vegetation that is submerged  - thus emitting methane for many decades as decay occurs - is simply astronomical.

With all these 'methane sniffing' drones flying around well sites, I have yet to see any reports of  methane levels that are arising from reservoirs.

 

Of course, anyone spending even 5 minutes reading up on the relative amounts of emitted methane from various sources - rice farming and livestock raising being only 2 biggies - would (should?) immediately recognize the ludicrous nature of singling out the hydrocarbon industry for culpability.

Pointing out the termites is another 'don't wanna go there' topic altogether.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Coffeeguyzz said:

 

When dams are built for hydro power/reservoir uses, the amount of forestry and vegetation that is submerged  - thus emitting methane for many decades as decay occurs - is simply astronomical.

A lot of that wood is valuable enough it is getting harvested; some of it is extremely valuable, as it is old-growth with tight ring spacing.  Current trees won't grow those desired wood ring patterns.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underwater_logging

Edited May 19, 2020 by Enthalpic

[KeyboardWarrior + 527]

Another favorite of mine is when I'm speaking to somebody who's anti-nuclear, and they say "There isn't enough Uranium or Plutonium on Earth to supply us with our energy needs". (Plutonium is synthetic) 

[Meredith Poor + 898]

1 hour ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Another favorite of mine is when I'm speaking to somebody who's anti-nuclear, and they say "There isn't enough Uranium or Plutonium on Earth to supply us with our energy needs". (Plutonium is synthetic) 

Someone told me a story about watching some environmentalist complaining about dumping all our radioactive waste into the Sun. The question was 'wouldn't this pollute the Sun?'. I snickered, but when I suggested this to one of my lefty friends, she asked me the same question. I pointed out the the Sun is a thermonuclear furnace, and the piddling amount of substance we aimed at it would be vaporized and blasted into interstellar space before it got anywhere near the solar surface.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

6 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Funny, but technically true.

"Gas" lines rarely contain pure dry gas.  The "produced water" is often quite dirty / salty.

I did several cases where all I had to do is demonstrate that the leaked water was high in chloride (simple ion chromatography).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Produced_waters

Still funny though, not quite as funny as injecting bleach...

How does fracking affect the amount of methane in produced gas, in any way, shape or form? Answer: It doesn’t.

If the pipeline would leak under the bay, I assume that you would get environmentally unfriendly bubbles, similar to swamp gas, which would be dispersed in the water column, then dissipated in the atmosphere.

A pressure gauge somewhere would indicate a leak, and it would be repaired.

The death of the planet would miraculously be avoided.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

25 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

Someone told me a story about watching some environmentalist complaining about dumping all our radioactive waste into the Sun. The question was 'wouldn't this pollute the Sun?'. I snickered, but when I suggested this to one of my lefty friends, she asked me the same question. I pointed out the the Sun is a thermonuclear furnace, and the piddling amount of substance we aimed at it would be vaporized and blasted into interstellar space before it got anywhere near the solar surface.

Common sense will get you nowhere with these folks...

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, KeyboardWarrior said:

Another favorite of mine is when I'm speaking to somebody who's anti-nuclear, and they say "There isn't enough Uranium or Plutonium on Earth to supply us with our energy needs". (Plutonium is synthetic) 

Don’t let facts get in the way!!!!!

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

7 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Funny, but technically true.

"Gas" lines rarely contain pure dry gas.  The "produced water" is often quite dirty / salty.

I did several cases where all I had to do is demonstrate that the leaked water was high in chloride (simple ion chromatography).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Produced_waters

Still funny though, not quite as funny as injecting bleach...

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Ho

w does fracking affect the amount of methane in produced gas, in any way, shape or form? Answer: It doesn’t.

If the pipeline would leak under the bay, I assume that you would get environmentally unfriendly bubbles, similar to swamp gas, which would be dispersed in the water column, then dissipated in the atmosphere.

A pressure gauge somewhere would indicate a leak, and it would be repaired.

The death of the planet would miraculously be avoided.

The natural gas is full of methane was part of Tom's joke... try to keep up.

 

Your faithfulness in immediate pressure drop sensing and fast pipeline repair is in direct contrast with physics and my experience. I also noted that the produced water -not the gas -was the main hazard.

A large pipe can be leaking for extended periods before it is noticed... let alone anything be done about it.   

PV=nRT use that math on a high-volume pipeline.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Then there are water/gas hydrates that plug up pipes and ruin sensor readings.

The operators ignore anomalous readings on purpose.  "Carry on... probably a glitch, send a pipe tech."

On the books standard operating procedure is to probably stop... they don't.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

 

“Your faithfulness in immediate pressure drop sensing and fast pipeline repair is in direct contrast with physics and my experience. I also noted the produced water -not the gas -was the main hazard.”

 

Okay, clever lad, how does ‘produced water’, from the wellhead, get into a gas transmission line? Do you honestly think that the gas from the wellhead is not processed to get rid of BSW (that’s basic sediment and water) before it is compressed and introduced into a transmission line?

 

I never said anything about an immediate indication of line pressure drop, but I assure you that the pressure in these lines are monitored for leak detection.

 

Lastly, to be correct, that equation is:

 

PV=ZnRT....do try to keep up!

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

3 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

 

Okay, clever lad, how does ‘produced water’, from the wellhead, get into a gas transmission line? Do you honestly think that the gas from the wellhead is not processed to get rid of BSW (that’s basic sediment and water) before it is compressed and introduced into a transmission line?

 

I don't know how it gets there but I have enforced its discharge into fish bearing waters.

Keep the dirty brine out of the creeks and we have no problem.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

12 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

I don't know how it gets there but I have enforced its discharge into fish bearing waters.

Keep the dirty brine out of the creeks and we have no problem.

If you don’t know how it gets there, how do you know it is produced water? You are absolutely correct when you say that water produced from hydrocarbon reservoirs is salty, often very salty, but unless you analyze a sample at the wellhead and another from the transmission line, you cannot say they are the same.

But this is besides the point. The gas line companies will only accept processed, dried gas. There is virtually no way for produced water to end up in a gas transmission line.

It is up to you to provide a feasible mechanism for produced water to get into a gas transmission line.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

5 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

If you don’t know how it gets there, how do you know it is produced water? You are absolutely correct when you say that water produced from hydrocarbon reservoirs is salty, often very salty, but unless you analyze a sample at the wellhead and another from the transmission line, you cannot say they are the same.

But this is besides the point. The gas line companies will only accept processed, dried gas. There is virtually no way for produced water to end up in a gas transmission line.

It is up to you to provide a feasible mechanism for produced water to get into a gas transmission line.

I just analyzed samples and wrote reports about gas operations that were discharging brine into fish bearing waters.

I admit that I don't exactly know how the produced water got to the fish bearing water but that was not my job.  I do know that brine from natural gas operations has accidentally reached freshwater streams on numerous occasions.  I have also been part of the industrial convictions..

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

So, essentially you don’t know anything about how gas goes from the wellhead to the transmission line, you simply analyzed samples in a lab, you really don’t know if the sample was produced water or a completion fluid....yet you tell us that produced water ended up in a gas line!

Why don’t you stick to what you know?

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

I do know that "gas" contaminates water, indirectly.

Obviously Tom should clarify us on the environmental assessment of the pipeline he wish was approved; was it dried gas?

You are up Tom!

Edited May 20, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

3 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

I do know that "gas" contaminates water, indirectly.

Obviously Tom should clarify us on the environmental assessment of the pipeline he wish was approved; was it dried gas?

You are up Tom!

Do transmission lines accept ‘wet gas’?

You are still on the hook to explain your initial assumption.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 minute ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Do transmission lines accept ‘wet gas’?

You are still on the hook to explain your initial assumption.

So the pipeline between the well and the dewatering plant doesn't count?

I need to explain no more.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

I do know of people who's main job is dumping barrels of methanol into "dry gas" pipelines to break up hydrate clogs.

Edited May 20, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

If Tom can show me that the rejected pipeline was for consumer grade dry natural gas I will eat my words.