Hotone + 412 May 27, 2020 (edited) On 5/23/2020 at 4:11 PM, Dan Warnick said: This man, my dear Hotone, and every other one like him, are the overwhelming reason that businesses went to China and other countries: to cut out the American workforce, hire sweatshop pay level workers in the 3rd world, sell off the real estate they had in the States, and avoid taxes. Now when that is done, and the only people left at the company are the C-suite and their financial advisers, like your friend above, they get fatter bonus checks and get to live in McMansions in the 3rd world or elsewhere (they're newly rich, they can choose!). So you got to ask yourself: what do you think they're going to say is "best for America"? The process of cutting out the American workforce started a long time ago, in the 1980's when corporate raiders took over many of the big vertically integrated industrial corporations. They stripped the assets, outsourced functions, downsized the workforce, broke those corporations apart, and sold off piecemeal for more than what they paid. The video about 2 cows which I posted makes fun of this aspect of American capitalism. Off-shoring to China didn't happen until the late 1990's. Unfettered capitalism has made some Americans very rich, but it has resulted in the decline of public services and common good. Look at healthcare for example. In the future when AI and robotics take away more jobs, inequality will get worse Don't you think that Communism (with Chinese characteristics) with all its shortcomings, will at least give more people a good standard of living and happy lives? Edited May 27, 2020 by Hotone 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 May 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Marcin2 said: Chinese economic protection and ni US entry zone made it easier for Russia to keep: 1.Mediterranean Sea access for its fleet air force and army through Tarsus base and Latakia base, 2. Black Sea base in Sevastopol through annexation of Crimea. In short it allowed Russia to keep its strategic position in Europe. We can only be sorry for Ukrainians for lack of development of mature, patriotic elites. It was so obvious Russia would take Crimea in order to keep Sevastopol base. Would Americans give up Pearl Harbour base ? And all these operations were relatively cheap, No economic / imperial overstretch here. Well, considering that Hawaii is a US State, why would we give up Pearl Harbor? Are you saying that the Ukraine was sovereign Russian territory? 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Warnick + 6,100 May 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Hotone said: businesses went to China and other countries Those words, from my comment. The "other countries" was used specifically because, are you ready for it, I didn't say this was a China thing. I was saying they and people like them are largely responsible for companies and work leaving the U.S. You really couldn't figure that out? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Hotone + 412 May 27, 2020 (edited) 5 hours ago, Dan Warnick said: Those words, from my comment. The "other countries" was used specifically because, are you ready for it, I didn't say this was a China thing. I was saying they and people like them are largely responsible for companies and work leaving the U.S. You really couldn't figure that out? I don't mean this to be a US vs China argument, but rather make the point about unfettered capitalism. It is the system that affects the individuals. Most people can't beat the system and if you can't beat them, join them. Remember Ross Perot and the 'Giant Sucking Sound of jobs moving to Mexico'? Well, his son became an enabler for jobs being sucked out of America. https://www.forbes.com/sites/christopherhelman/2013/09/04/a-billion-reasons-why-ross-perot-jr-loves-that-giant-sucking-sound/ Edited May 27, 2020 by Hotone Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SERWIN + 749 SE May 27, 2020 20 hours ago, Gregory Purcell said: At some point our trade war may go nuclear , China decides to sanction the USA and will no longer accept US dollars for goods and services, then nationalize all US owned factories. US manufacturing would have a very difficult time restarting all those supply chains we out sourced to China. And the whining would begin. The losers that never had enough foresight to realize this could happen on ANY given day would be all atwitter about losing their investment to the CCP. Sucks to be them then. They went into this whole thing with eyes wide open, but clouded by the promise of easy money, so they took the plunge and when they lose? It will now become the responsibility of who to bail their ignorant asses out? Again, sucks to be them.... I saw that possibility decades ago, and the smiling shuckster from China making promises they NEVER intended to honor, but who can stop them on their own soil now. Companies in business should be better at making informed decisions than this..... Take a ride through the hearts of towns in Illinois, Indiana, Ohio. Empty factories that used to produce goods for the American market abandoned and derelict. It is a shame that the few greedy took so much away from the many needy, and they could lose it all on a ludicrous gamble, rolling the dice just one more time to get that huge payout. Wouldn't have made as much money, but would have been rewarded with more stability in the long run..... 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Warnick + 6,100 May 27, 2020 7 hours ago, Hotone said: The process of cutting out the American workforce started a long time ago, in the 1980's when corporate raiders took over many of the big vertically integrated industrial corporations. They stripped the assets, outsourced functions, downsized the workforce, broke those corporations apart, and sold off piecemeal for more than what they paid. The video about 2 cows which I posted makes fun of this aspect of American capitalism. Off-shoring to China didn't happen until the late 1990's. Unfettered capitalism has made some Americans very rich, but it has resulted in the decline of public services and common good. Look at healthcare for example. In the future when AI and robotics take away more jobs, inequality will get worse Don't you think that Communism (with Chinese characteristics) with all its shortcomings, will at least give more people a good standard of living and happy lives? Your last video there, as much as those journalists want to talk about all the issues, shows a city consumed by drug abuse, off-shoring of non-skilled jobs, liberal governments that think they can data the problem away. They even cite lack of public housing and public toilets, as if. The fact is America and the world has a drug problem. Liberal governments up and down the West Coast focus on giving the homeless housing to stop them living on the streets. I wonder why that doesn't solve the problem? They talk about providing the homeless with a steady basic income (charity/welfare). Why doesn't that solve the problem? They talk about NOT putting people in jail for minor crimes, related to, you know, drug problems. Why doesn't that solve the problem? And they not only talk about such idiocy, they bankrupt their cities and their states testing their theories. They don't know why none of it solves the problem. I do, it's a drug problem: lock up repeat offenders and institute drug rehab. 3 strikes and you go up the river for a very long time. Now to your final question "Don't you think that Communism (with Chinese characteristics) with all its shortcomings, will at least give more people a good standard of living and happy lives?". Let's take that question and put it together with how China, in this example, deals with druggies. The following article is dated March 21st, 2019, and it has a pay wall after just a few paragraphs, but you'll get the gist: China’s strong-arm approach to drug addiction does not work Alittle over 20 years ago, when he was still a teenager, Lin Guangpeng tried heroin that his friends had brought to a party near his home in the south-western province of Yunnan. Soon addicted, Mr Lin—not his real name—spent many of the subsequent years behind bars, including several long stretches in detention centres for drug users. He says wardens in these “compulsory isolation detoxification” facilities put him to work in prison factories. Such places are meant to heal your body, he says (inmates are pictured exercising). But they “damage your soul”. China is tough on drugs. Many traffickers are among the thousands of people executed annually. Sometimes they are paraded beforehand at public sentencing rallies. Attendees at these grim spectacles include busloads of schoolchildren. Drug users may be punished on the spot by police. Many are locked up in centres like the ones where Mr Lin was sent, often for stretches of two to three years without trial. In 2017 about 320,000 people spent time in such camps, says China’s anti-narcotics agency. That is about 36,000 fewer than in 2016 but about 120,000 more than in 2012. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 27, 2020 10 hours ago, Marcin2 said: Chinese economic protection and ni US entry zone made it easier for Russia to keep: 1.Mediterranean Sea access for its fleet air force and army through Tarsus base and Latakia base, 2. Black Sea base in Sevastopol through annexation of Crimea. In short it allowed Russia to keep its strategic position in Europe. We can only be sorry for Ukrainians for lack of development of mature, patriotic elites. It was so obvious Russia would take Crimea in order to keep Sevastopol base. Would Americans give up Pearl Harbour base ? And all these operations were relatively cheap, No economic / imperial overstretch here. Russia doesn't really have a military. Neither do they have nuclear weapons. You can only have a military if you maintain the forces. Things rust. People need to eat. Russian ICBMs won't fly. You have to replace the electronic components on a schedule even if those electronics are in good working condition. What happens? They get sold on the black market rather than swapped out. That's how everything works throughout the entire Russian military. Putin has an oversized view of himself and his vision of Russia. In reality he's just a little guy, a squirt. Taking Crimea was a really dumb move because Russia can't use the military bases to project military power. Putin took Crimea because he was upset Ukraine dumped his puppet with intent to pivot toward Europe. Everyone was surprised when Putin made the move because they assumed a strategic response. Putin's response to rejection in Ukraine was emotional. Now he tries to maintain enough chaos in Ukraine to slow their inevitable turn to Europe. Russia has no strategic (from a traditional military point of view) advantage in Ukraine. Putin didn't actually gain anything in Ukraine. It's all about saving face. It was not about extending Russian power it was about trying to prevent the appearance of weakness to a domestic audience. Of course, Putin isn't entirely without power. Donald whimpers when Putin scolds him. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Purcell + 94 May 27, 2020 8 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said: Well, considering that Hawaii is a US State, why would we give up Pearl Harbor? Are you saying that the Ukraine was sovereign Russian territory? Throughout most of history the eastern half of Ukraine was sovereign Russian territory, Lenin gave modern day Ukraine a third of it's territory and Khrushchev gave them Crimea. So it's kind of complected, the people in the west of the country hate Russians and the people in the east of the country speak Russian as a first language, and think of themselves as Russian. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Purcell + 94 May 27, 2020 31 minutes ago, BradleyPNW said: Russia doesn't really have a military. Neither do they have nuclear weapons. You can only have a military if you maintain the forces. Things rust. People need to eat. Russian ICBMs won't fly. You have to replace the electronic components on a schedule even if those electronics are in good working condition. What happens? They get sold on the black market rather than swapped out. That's how everything works throughout the entire Russian military. Putin has an oversized view of himself and his vision of Russia. In reality he's just a little guy, a squirt. Taking Crimea was a really dumb move because Russia can't use the military bases to project military power. Putin took Crimea because he was upset Ukraine dumped his puppet with intent to pivot toward Europe. Everyone was surprised when Putin made the move because they assumed a strategic response. Putin's response to rejection in Ukraine was emotional. Now he tries to maintain enough chaos in Ukraine to slow their inevitable turn to Europe. Russia has no strategic (from a traditional military point of view) advantage in Ukraine. Putin didn't actually gain anything in Ukraine. It's all about saving face. It was not about extending Russian power it was about trying to prevent the appearance of weakness to a domestic audience. You really know not of what you speak. It would have been a quagmire for Russia to occupy Kyiv because the further west you go in the country the less they like Russia, So Putin chose to let Washington have Ukraine. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 May 27, 2020 23 hours ago, Gregory Purcell said: Now maybe Obama was the better trade war general, what I am trying to say striking a free trade deal with everyone in the Pacific excluding China, would make trade with China (relative to trade with other trading partners) more expensive, much like slapping a tariff on each other makes trade with China more expensive. The affect on US-China relations and trade would be similar. And the collision over trade was happening long before Trump, the following piece was written December 2014. Dear friends, Today I sharing with you a document which I personally consider as absolutely crucial: an in-depth analysis of the China-Russia Strategic Alliance (RCSA) written by somebody who looks at it from the “Chinese side”. http://thesaker.is/vineyard-of-the-saker-white-paper-the-china-russia-double-helix/ Obama was doing great job being friendly with everyone. He used his independent judgement to call off a non sensical war against Russia ...................... Trump has been the total opposite except may be with India................ and Japan.................. and minor personal relationship with Xi..... and Putin......... Globalization has basically covered what is required in TPP which foresees US domination throughout the world. Singapore offended China by belittling China and all out backing the US during the signing of TPP. Malaysia pulled out. All others went ahead.......... When was it cancelled?? How did Russia and China get so close?? Thanks to the hostility shown by the US, may be?? US (and may be Europe) tried to cut oil sale (and may be other supplies) to Russia more than 10 or 15 years ago. Russia was slightly panic........ A suggestion was made: check out oil and gas supply from China - closer proximity, cheaper, steadier. A deal was sealed....... a long term partnership............. between the Communists duo was taking place ......... Trump was elected with marginal win because he could probably bring stern actions to change sluggish conditions in the US, compared to soft - diplomatic Hillary. His military background was thought could be helpful to under-represented veterans and soldiers........... Veterans and soldiers gave nearly one third of the votes due to his promises to make life better for them.......... Besides that, blood connection with Russia envisioned Trump the upcoming Noble Peace Prize nominator who could bring new light to the strange conflict should he was elected ............ Until today.......... his performance might have been slightly disappointing............. Dear commies, the benefit of outsourcing production lines into the developing world is likely shown below .......................................................................................................... 31 minutes ago, BradleyPNW said: Taking Crimea was a really dumb move because Russia can't use the military bases to project military power. Putin took Crimea because he was upset Ukraine dumped his puppet with intent to pivot toward Europe. Everyone was surprised when Putin made the move because they assumed a strategic response. Russia has no strategic (from a traditional military point of view) advantage in Ukraine. Putin didn't actually gain anything in Ukraine. It's all about saving face. It was not about extending Russian power it was about trying to prevent the appearance of weakness to a domestic audience. Ukraine was said to be the bread, milk, cheese and all other suitable or relevant descriptions to Russia. The intention of Europe trying to rope Ukraine into Euro zone destabilized the conditions. Putin has made the right decision to defend his military base at Crimea to protect the sovereignty of Russia over the area. The disruption ceased soon after that............... 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 May 27, 2020 On 5/25/2020 at 4:17 AM, Strangelovesurfing said: First off, that is an interesting artifact on your post, I can't quite make out what it says. Please write your vertical lettering artifact in a regular english language structure that goes left to right. Looks a bit fishy. The US has never been opposed to 5G implementation, some elements of society view EMF emissions in very bad lights, that may be where your confusion comes from. O-Ran isn't a joint-venture, it's a new standard of open-architecture telecommunications using virtual machines to do the heavy lifting that run on standardized networking hardware, it's your understanding that needs refinement. All you need to do is read the first page of their site, it's all laid out for you in an easy to understand format if your goal is to actually be informed and have a real substantive back and forth. https://www.o-ran.org It's all right there. Opposition to 5G small cell deployment spreads across US www.rcrwireless.com › 5g › opposition-to-5g-small-cel... Aug 26, 2019 - While these frequently placed small cells are necessary for 5G deployment, they are being met with hesitation — and in some cases, downright ... Trump says he opposes nationalizing U.S. 5G network - Reuters www.reuters.com › article › us-usa-wireless-trump › tru... Apr 12, 2019 - President Donald Trump said Friday the United States should not nationalize its 5G network and said private companies should move quickly to ... Search Results Web results The US Is Losing Its Fight Against Huawei | WIRED www.wired.com › story › uk-huawei-5g-networks-us Jan 29, 2020 - The UK's decision Tuesday to allow Huawei to provide noncritical components of its 5G network marked another critical win for the embattled ... A joint venture is a business entity created by two or more parties, generally characterized by shared ownership, shared returns and risks, and shared governance. Wikipedia the O-RAN Alliance was established as a German entity in August 2018. https://www.o-ran.org/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 27, 2020 7 minutes ago, specinho said: Ukraine was said to be the bread, milk, cheese and all other suitable or relevant descriptions to Russia. The intention of Europe trying to rope Ukraine into Euro zone destabilized the conditions. Putin has made the right decision to defend his military base at Crimea to protect the sovereignty of Russia over the area. The disruption ceased soon after that............... Weakness. That's why Putin took Crimea. Even Russian military was caught off guard. It was a total surprise move because Putin had an emotional reaction to Euromaidan's success. Putin had all the typical propaganda running about the USA/Europe paying Fake Protesters and he lost. Putin compounded his failure of losing his Ukrainian puppet by taking Crimea. Do you know what would have been a smart move on Putin's part? To shut up during the Euromaidan transition and make nice with the new government. He would have still had his base. But because he bet everything on maintaining his corrupt Ukrainian puppet he looked weak AF when he lost. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BradleyPNW + 282 ES May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Gregory Purcell said: You really know not of what you speak. It would have been a quagmire for Russia to occupy Kyiv because the further west you go in the country the less they like Russia, So Putin chose to let Washington have Ukraine. Occupy Kyiv? Ha ha, why, because Ukraine booted his corrupt puppet? Ukraine tried to turn to Europe because Europe was better than Russia's corrupt puppet. There's no mystery here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strangelovesurfing + 737 JD May 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Gregory Purcell said: You really know not of what you speak. It would have been a quagmire for Russia to occupy Kyiv because the further west you go in the country the less they like Russia, So Putin chose to let Washington have Ukraine. It's a double whammy also since the Russian speaking population is predominately in eastern Ukraine. Russia could always agitate that segment of Ukraine's population in the past especially during elections. It'll be very surprising if any pro-Putin politician gains power in whats left of Ukraine for a long, long time. Gain Crimea/Donbass loose the rest of Ukraine for at least a generation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
specinho + 467 May 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, BradleyPNW said: Weakness. That's why Putin took Crimea. Even Russian military was caught off guard. It was a total surprise move because Putin had an emotional reaction to Euromaidan's success. Putin had all the typical propaganda running about the USA/Europe paying Fake Protesters and he lost. Putin compounded his failure of losing his Ukrainian puppet by taking Crimea. Do you know what would have been a smart move on Putin's part? To shut up during the Euromaidan transition and make nice with the new government. He would have still had his base. But because he bet everything on maintaining his corrupt Ukrainian puppet he looked weak AF when he lost. According to a magazine (can not recall if it was Times or the Economists), those started the riots were pro-Euro-ters............. Therefore, it might not be fake at all................... if they were paid or called to action........... Easy for you to request someone handing over his national rice bowl to you and do not expect a fight, for reason, for rights, for (anything else)?? ............ Different languages in Euro zone divides. It might be better to leave another language speaker out than in, to avoid further unintended communication gap...........?? Shall they just need oil and gas without any risk of being cut off any time, all they need is probably ask and buy plus do not stir up hornet nests unnecessarily?? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Purcell + 94 May 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Strangelovesurfing said: It's a double whammy also since the Russian speaking population is predominately in eastern Ukraine. Russia could always agitate that segment of Ukraine's population in the past especially during elections. It'll be very surprising if any pro-Putin politician gains power in whats left of Ukraine for a long, long time. Gain Crimea/Donbass loose the rest of Ukraine for at least a generation. You do understand outside of Crimea/Donbass the West gets the credit or blame for how much we 'improved their lives since they turned to Europe'. And recently leaked Biden-Poroshenko tape, while not damaging to Biden proves Poroshenko to have been just sock puppet willing to do anything for his master, people in Ukraine are calling it treason, an investigation has been launched, and no one can predict what is going to happen in Kyiv. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strangelovesurfing + 737 JD May 27, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, specinho said: Opposition to 5G small cell deployment spreads across US www.rcrwireless.com › 5g › opposition-to-5g-small-cel... Aug 26, 2019 - While these frequently placed small cells are necessary for 5G deployment, they are being met with hesitation — and in some cases, downright ... Trump says he opposes nationalizing U.S. 5G network - Reuters www.reuters.com › article › us-usa-wireless-trump › tru... Apr 12, 2019 - President Donald Trump said Friday the United States should not nationalize its 5G network and said private companies should move quickly to ... Search Results Web results The US Is Losing Its Fight Against Huawei | WIRED www.wired.com › story › uk-huawei-5g-networks-us Jan 29, 2020 - The UK's decision Tuesday to allow Huawei to provide noncritical components of its 5G network marked another critical win for the embattled ... A joint venture is a business entity created by two or more parties, generally characterized by shared ownership, shared returns and risks, and shared governance. Wikipedia the O-RAN Alliance was established as a German entity in August 2018. https://www.o-ran.org/ You're being purposely misleading here and again, super shady. Once again, please print your vertical propaganda link in left to right fashion. Let's start at the top, Opposition to 5G is once again in 'segments' of the population, like every country on Earth due to EMF radiation. Trump opposes nationalization of 5g networks, uh huh, because private companies are building it out. The US is losing it's fight agains Huawei, please ask Huawei's corpse that same question in a year. Pretty sure Huawei just 'lost' that fight. A joint venture is a business entity..... yep that link says it all. ORan isn't a business venture/entity nor doe anyone who belongs to the consortium make or share profits with each other. It was formed as a German entity, yes, and what's your point? The US want's Germany to skip Huawei and jump on the ORan program. The best way to do this is to form it in Germany, and show the Germans there's a option that's more in their interest as each telecommunication operator can make any level of security they want by writing their own security software. Heck they can even make all the software sitting on the hardware be anything they want it to be. Edited May 27, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strangelovesurfing + 737 JD May 27, 2020 14 minutes ago, Gregory Purcell said: You do understand outside of Crimea/Donbass the West gets the credit or blame for how much we 'improved their lives since they turned to Europe'. And recently leaked Biden-Poroshenko tape, while not damaging to Biden proves Poroshenko to have been just sock puppet willing to do anything for his master, people in Ukraine are calling it treason, an investigation has been launched, and no one can predict what is going to happen in Kyiv. I read a bit about that tape, we'll see how it pans out. The treason charge is thrown around quite liberally these days by whoever has an axe to grind. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strangelovesurfing + 737 JD May 27, 2020 (edited) 51 minutes ago, specinho said: According to a magazine (can not recall if it was Times or the Economists), those started the riots were pro-Euro-ters............. Therefore, it might not be fake at all................... if they were paid or called to action........... Easy for you to request someone handing over his national rice bowl to you and do not expect a fight, for reason, for rights, for (anything else)?? ............ Different languages in Euro zone divides. It might be better to leave another language speaker out than in, to avoid further unintended communication gap...........?? Shall they just need oil and gas without any risk of being cut off any time, all they need is probably ask and buy plus do not stir up hornet nests unnecessarily?? Isn't Ukraine an independent country? How is it Russia's rice bowl? (more like wheat bowl but if you're from China then rice bowl works) If it's that easy to just pay people to fight and die regardless of their actual belief, the US would have 'won' every civil war it barged into the last 70 years. Edited May 27, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strangelovesurfing + 737 JD May 27, 2020 4 hours ago, Dan Warnick said: Your last video there, as much as those journalists want to talk about all the issues, shows a city consumed by drug abuse, off-shoring of non-skilled jobs, liberal governments that think they can data the problem away. They even cite lack of public housing and public toilets, as if. The fact is America and the world has a drug problem. Liberal governments up and down the West Coast focus on giving the homeless housing to stop them living on the streets. I wonder why that doesn't solve the problem? They talk about providing the homeless with a steady basic income (charity/welfare). Why doesn't that solve the problem? They talk about NOT putting people in jail for minor crimes, related to, you know, drug problems. Why doesn't that solve the problem? And they not only talk about such idiocy, they bankrupt their cities and their states testing their theories. They don't know why none of it solves the problem. I do, it's a drug problem: lock up repeat offenders and institute drug rehab. 3 strikes and you go up the river for a very long time. Now to your final question "Don't you think that Communism (with Chinese characteristics) with all its shortcomings, will at least give more people a good standard of living and happy lives?". Let's take that question and put it together with how China, in this example, deals with druggies. The following article is dated March 21st, 2019, and it has a pay wall after just a few paragraphs, but you'll get the gist: China’s strong-arm approach to drug addiction does not work Alittle over 20 years ago, when he was still a teenager, Lin Guangpeng tried heroin that his friends had brought to a party near his home in the south-western province of Yunnan. Soon addicted, Mr Lin—not his real name—spent many of the subsequent years behind bars, including several long stretches in detention centres for drug users. He says wardens in these “compulsory isolation detoxification” facilities put him to work in prison factories. Such places are meant to heal your body, he says (inmates are pictured exercising). But they “damage your soul”. China is tough on drugs. Many traffickers are among the thousands of people executed annually. Sometimes they are paraded beforehand at public sentencing rallies. Attendees at these grim spectacles include busloads of schoolchildren. Drug users may be punished on the spot by police. Many are locked up in centres like the ones where Mr Lin was sent, often for stretches of two to three years without trial. In 2017 about 320,000 people spent time in such camps, says China’s anti-narcotics agency. That is about 36,000 fewer than in 2016 but about 120,000 more than in 2012. Additionally, the whole oxy / Purdue pharma sponsored, govt assisted, heroin epidemic is a GIANT part of the spike in addiction rates. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Marcin2 + 725 MK May 27, 2020 (edited) It is proved without doubt that dead drug dealers do not sell drugs. Jailed and paroled drug dealers go back to their very lucrative job of drug dealing. There are probably statistics how many people die per 1 active drug dealer. Easy access increases prevalence of usage, and in some drugs addiction comes very fast. We have democracy so cannot kill drug dealers big and small on the spot, which is the cheapest method. And US has problem with violence in Mexico. I am trying to imagine this level of anarchy in China and just cannot. Edited May 27, 2020 by Marcin2 Typo 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strangelovesurfing + 737 JD May 27, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Marcin2 said: Chinese economic protection and ni US entry zone made it easier for Russia to keep: 1.Mediterranean Sea access for its fleet air force and army through Tarsus base and Latakia base, 2. Black Sea base in Sevastopol through annexation of Crimea. In short it allowed Russia to keep its strategic position in Europe. We can only be sorry for Ukrainians for lack of development of mature, patriotic elites. It was so obvious Russia would take Crimea in order to keep Sevastopol base. Would Americans give up Pearl Harbour base ? And all these operations were relatively cheap, No economic / imperial overstretch here. 1. Russia already had access to the E.Med. through the Montreux Convention. The Tarsus base already existed, Latakia is an official new access point, but is that worth the cost? How is Moscow going to pay for rebuilding Syria? It's a bit early to claim to know what the end costs will be, look at Bush jr. and his 'mission accomplished' announcement. The true costs to Russia are unknown at this point and will most likely be much higher than you anticipate. Libya's costs are just beginning to mount. 2. Sevestopol is a nice piece of real estate to reconquer, but I don't see how it greatly enhances Russia's already dominant Black sea position. It drove the rest of Ukraine away from Moscow, that loss more than cancels out any strategic gain from one base IMO. I don't see what Pearl Harbor has to do with Sevestopol, Hawaii is part of the US. Edited May 27, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Strangelovesurfing + 737 JD May 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Marcin2 said: It is proved without doubt that dead drug dealers do not sell drugs. Jailed and paroled drug dealers go back to their very lucrative job of drug dealing. There are probably statistics how many people die per 1 active drug dealer. Easy access increases prevalence of usage, and in some drugs addiction comes very fast. We have democracy so cannot kill drug dealers big and small on the spot, which is the cheapest method. And US has problem with violence in Mexico. I am trying to imagine this level of anarchy in China and just cannot. Drugs are already easy to come by, if you knew what to look for you'd realize they're everywhere. US doesn't have a problem with violence in Mexico since it's in Mexico. Seriously doubt there are any useful statistics on drug dealers and deaths. Drug dealers exist because there's a market for their product. Do you really believe drug dealers spread addiction like a pathogen? Purdue pharma is/was the biggest drug cartel in the world. Having government sanction doesn't change the reality of that family being a bunch of Pablo Escobars who used doctors to distribute their heroin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gregory Purcell + 94 May 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said: 1. Russia already had access to the E.Med. through the Montreux Convention. The Tarsus base already existed, Latakia is an official new access point, but is that worth the cost? How is Moscow going to pay for rebuilding Syria? 2. Sevestopol is a nice piece of real estate to reconquer, but I don't see how it greatly enhances Russia's already dominant Black sea position. It drove the rest of Ukraine away from Moscow, that loss more than cancels out any strategic gain from one base IMO. 1. Moscow isn't going to Rebuild Syria, the Syrians themselves are doing so right now, Moscow just helps by sending some construction equipment wheat and other stuff they can spare. 2. Before 2014 Russia's main military bases on the Black Sea were in Crimea, they had 40,000 troops stationed there. The "invasion" was a small group of Russian troops telling the Ukrainian troops to stay in their base, and blocking the one road linking Crimea to the rest of Ukraine. If you want to call it an invasion it was the most successful invasion of all time, the entire peninsula was conquered without a single casualty on either side. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Buckland + 6,308 May 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Gregory Purcell said: You really know not of what you speak. It would have been a quagmire for Russia to occupy Kyiv because the further west you go in the country the less they like Russia, So Putin chose to let Washington have Ukraine. “So Putin chose to let Washington have Ukraine.” I just knew that somehow, someway, it was the US at fault..... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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