COVID 19 May Be Less Deadly Than Flu Study Finds

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

15 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Meanwhile, in the real world, states that implemented strict and decisive measures have much fewer fatalities, and are now able to carefully restart parts of their economies, while the laizess-faire, "rich-send-poor-to-die" countries like the USA and Great Britain still struggle with the number of dead and their economies collapsed anyway. 

 

Don't worry, be happy.

 

United Nations New World Order (UNNWO) Launches COVID 19 Coronavirus Focused International Day of Happiness 2020 Campaign Theme HAPPINESS FOR ALL TOGETHER

NEW YORK, March 19, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Responding to the unprecedented, sudden threat of COVID 19 to the health, happiness, and wellbeing of all humanity, as well as the worldwide quarantine, and disruption to the global economy across every sector, industry, and the everyday life of billions of people, the United Nations International Day Of Happiness (UNIDOHappiness) is launching the HAPPINESS FOR ALL, TOGETHER March 20, 2020 International Day of Happiness global campaign theme, to promote and advance worldwide solidarity and unity, in winning the global fight against COVID 19 coronavirus.

The #HAPPINESSFORALLTOGETHER 2020 United Nations #InternationalDayOfHappiness campaign theme is a call on all 7.8 billion members of the global human family, and all 206 nations and territories of planet earth, to unite in solidarity, and steadfast resolve, in fighting back against the COVID 19 Coronavirus, by taking the #TenStepsToGlobalHappiness challenge to celebrate the 2020 #InternationalDayOfHappiness, and ultimately defeating the COVID 19 global pandemic, and threat to all life.  ...

 

=================================

 

United Nations International Day of Happiness website:

https://unidohappiness.org/

 

United Nations New World Order website:

https://unnwo.org/

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Holy cow!  I thought you were taking the mickey!  These are real.  We need a real life Demolition Man!  Oh, what I'd give to have Nigel Farage on the committee!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

30 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Holy cow!  I thought you were taking the mickey!  These are real. 

 

It is infinitely more instructive (and amusing) for others to curiously poke around for themselves.  Hopefully a whole bunch of WTF moment light bulbs turn on in people's heads.

[Jim Profit + 46]

54 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

Don't worry, be happy.

 

United Nations New World Order (UNNWO) Launches COVID 19 Coronavirus Focused International Day of Happiness 2020 Campaign Theme HAPPINESS FOR ALL TOGETHER

[...]

United Nations International Day of Happiness website:

https://unidohappiness.org/

 

United Nations New World Order website:

https://unnwo.org/

I don't know if you are serious but if you look at the whois record of unwo.org you can see the registrant is "Illien Global Public Benefit Corporation"

https://www.whois.com/whois/unnwo.org

https://www.linkedin.com/company/illien-group/

Nothing to do with the UN..

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Jim Profit

[Jim Profit + 46]

1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

Jim and Enthalpic want to stay home and collect a government check, and NOT have to go to work any more.  What's not to like.  Stop talking against their position, it ruins their plans.  

Hahaha. I work from home, if needed I commute.

[Radha + 262]

For those under 70 age old the mortality rate is around 0.06% according to studies done by several countries.

Locking up healthy people is insane. Data has shown that people with normally functioning immune systems easily fend off this virus like hundreds of other viruses.

Fyi, I have never had a flu in my life and do need other people to tell me how to protect my health.

Almost all small business owners in the US said they would rather get the virus than lose their business.

But the communist dictators in blue states did not give them this choice, all supposedly to protect the people.

Why then did the large chain stores stay open? They could have just allowed one customer at a time in the small businesses.

Edited May 26, 2020 by Radha
and do NOT need other people to tell me how to protect my health.

[Radha + 262]

And the real numbers of people who died from Covid 19 is much lower than what the MSM tells us

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/how-alcohol-poisoning-led-colorado-change-how-it-reports-coronavirus

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 hours ago, Jim Profit said:

I don't know if you are serious but if you look at the whois record of unwo.org you can see the registrant is "Illien Global Public Benefit Corporation"

https://www.whois.com/whois/unnwo.org

https://www.linkedin.com/company/illien-group/

Nothing to do with the UN..

Not exactly true, but good on you for digging around.

Deeper dive for you, if you wish:

Fact Check: Is The United Nations New World Order Website Real?

Note that the ^ question is open ended, and the site deliberately does not answer it's own question.  Instead, there is a 12 minute explainer video, and a dozen or so links that anyone can chase down.

The UNNWO site neatly summarizes and ties together some of the Globalist / Socialist ultimate aims of the UN + WHO.

[Jim Profit + 46]

1 hour ago, Radha said:

For those under 70 age old the mortality rate is around 0.06% according to studies done by several countries.

 

 https://ourworldindata.org/mortality-risk-covid#case-fatality-rate-of-covid-19-by-age

 

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

5 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

 

Don't worry, be happy.

 

United Nations New World Order (UNNWO) Launches COVID 19 Coronavirus Focused International Day of Happiness 2020 Campaign Theme HAPPINESS FOR ALL TOGETHER

NEW YORK, March 19, 2020 /PRNewswire/ -- Responding to the unprecedented, sudden threat of COVID 19 to the health, happiness, and wellbeing of all humanity, as well as the worldwide quarantine, and disruption to the global economy across every sector, industry, and the everyday life of billions of people, the United Nations International Day Of Happiness (UNIDOHappiness) is launching the HAPPINESS FOR ALL, TOGETHER March 20, 2020 International Day of Happiness global campaign theme, to promote and advance worldwide solidarity and unity, in winning the global fight against COVID 19 coronavirus.

The #HAPPINESSFORALLTOGETHER 2020 United Nations #InternationalDayOfHappiness campaign theme is a call on all 7.8 billion members of the global human family, and all 206 nations and territories of planet earth, to unite in solidarity, and steadfast resolve, in fighting back against the COVID 19 Coronavirus, by taking the #TenStepsToGlobalHappiness challenge to celebrate the 2020 #InternationalDayOfHappiness, and ultimately defeating the COVID 19 global pandemic, and threat to all life.  ...

=================================

United Nations International Day of Happiness website:

https://unidohappiness.org/

United Nations New World Order website:

https://unnwo.org/

Clicked on the link expecting a Babylon Bee article. Surprised to see it was a legitimate PR News wire. 

Now I've got the "Don't Worry, be Happy" song stuck in my head

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

9 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Clicked on the link expecting a Babylon Bee article. Surprised to see it was a legitimate PR News wire. 

Now I've got the "Don't Worry, be Happy" song stuck in my head

Well, as long as it goes away by bedtime, there's worse tunes to have in your head!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

7 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Clicked on the link expecting a Babylon Bee article. Surprised to see it was a legitimate PR News wire. 

Now I've got the "Don't Worry, be Happy" song stuck in my head

That song makes me cringe, actually.  It was meant as a gentle troll.

Yes, the PR press release is real.  The stories behind the 2 websites are pretty bizarre.

See my earlier comment above if you are bored and want to do a deep dive into it.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Radha said:

And the real numbers of people who died from Covid 19 is much lower than what the MSM tells us

https://justthenews.com/politics-policy/coronavirus/how-alcohol-poisoning-led-colorado-change-how-it-reports-coronavirus

@Jim Profit won't click on the link, so he won't read this: 

Quote

The presumption is that the “due to” category means a positive COVID-19 test. It does not. The DPHE web site states that the more restrictive category “represents the total number of people whose death was attributed to COVID-19 as indicated on a death certificate. This number is determined by the CDC.” And the CDC explicitly does not require a positive COVID-19 test.

On March 4, the federal agency issued an advisory that in absence of testing, COVID-19 could be put on a death certificate “where the disease caused or is assumed to have caused or contributed to death.” So if the patient had other “comorbid” or pre-existing conditions that may actually have killed him or her, coronavirus can still be labeled the primary cause of death. Three weeks later it stated comorbid conditions could be listed on the certificate as contributory, but the primary cause of death would still be COVID-19, and that’s what would go into the databases.

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

6 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

That song makes me cringe, actually.  It was meant as a gentle troll.

Yes, the PR press release is real.  The stories behind the 2 websites are pretty bizarre.

See my earlier comment above if you are bored and want to do a deep dive into it.

I forgot Robin Williams was in the official video

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

5 minutes ago, Tom Kirkman said:

That song makes me cringe, actually.  It was meant as a gentle troll.

Yes, the PR press release is real.  The stories behind the 2 websites are pretty bizarre.

See my earlier comment above if you are bored and want to do a deep dive into it.

The language that you pasted really made me think it was a parody, or your own words parodying them.  But it was not.  Those words, words which make me want to vomit when they are presented by serious people, were right from the websites.  I was reading along expecting the Mad Hatter to jump out from the other room at any second!  Raalph!

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

I forgot Robin Williams was in the official video

Damn you!  You couldn't suffer through having it your head alone, could you?  Aaargh!

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

21 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Meanwhile, in the real world, states that implemented strict and decisive measures have much fewer fatalities, and are now able to carefully restart parts of their economies, while the laizess-faire, "rich-send-poor-to-die" countries like the USA and Great Britain still struggle with the number of dead and their economies collapsed anyway. 

 

8 hours ago, Jim Profit said:

That is good news. Let's hope they don't lift the lockdown too fast / too soon.

 

My advice to you then is to stay in self-imposed lockdown this entire summer.

 

Really  : )

https://thedonald.win/p/Fg32S8Pf/media-is-telling-people-not-to-t/c/

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

10 hours ago, Jim Profit said:

The 0.26% is estimated based on the 0.4% symptomatic CFR estimate from the CDC from the scenario 5 "Current Best Estimate".

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/planning-scenarios.html

The same scenario use an estimate of 35% of asymptomatic cases.
So with this scenario the IFR would be of 0.26%

Their upper bound scenario has a CFR of 1% and a ratio of 20% asymptomatic.
It translates into a 0.8% IFR.

I didn't cherry-pick I only used the data I was aware of and I used the lowest estimate I knew at the time.

The rate is estimated about 0,35% in Sweden and Germany, and between 0.5% and 0.8% in NY state.
And i think the US population should suffer from more comorbidities than German or Swedish people.

Anyway even if I used the 0.26% value in my post this work still be valid.. COVID-19 would still be more lethal than flu.
I'm kind of pathologically honest. I can make mistakes, but bad faith isn't my thing.

Update: corrected some math error the 0.26% IFR was calculation was OK.

Again. as mentioned by others, it is entirely unclear that the number of reported CV19 deaths is anywhere the actual number. The primary cause of death is not CV19 in a large number of cases. The CDC guidelines allow a hospital to report a CV19 death without a CV19 positive test. Indeed, it has become quite common to put in CV19 despite negative tests. Mainly because of a generous fixed fee provided courtesy of the tax payer. So if your insurance isn't good enough, you wil be labeled a CV19 case.

As to obtaining statistics, it is not possible without individual case reviews. Those will take time.

The actual number to use would be lower. Onhand numbers show at least 25% of CV19 deaths were unrelated to CV19. In Italy, only 12% of CV19 labeled deaths show CT imaging with ground glass which is the defining symptom differentiating it from other causes of death. So using those as bounds, the actual numbers are in between 12% to 75% of those reported, so the overall stat is 0.2% and possibly down to 0.03% (which I doubt). 

The bottom line is that there are huge differences between different geographies. Part of it is that initial viral loadings are a function of proximity and exposure times. Which are extremely high in public transport, and prisons and badly aired open plan offices. If prisons have a near 100% infection rate in open bay structures where distancing is possible, then imagine how much worse it is in your call center floor where distancing is smaller, and in subways and bars where it is much smaller and exposure times are easily hours at a time (in subways it is cumulative hours over days riding the same routes with the same people). Such high loadings are expected to overwhelm immune resistance and slow down remission as constant new virus is being introduced in prisons and hospital wards, particularly the field hospital type settings where no air evacuation is provided. 

But the main point, regardless of the overall numbers, is that the numbers for the under 70 crowd were small from the start, and for the working age folks it was downright tiny, so that there never was a reason to isolate everybody, but just those who were susceptible and those who are in proximity to them daily. We are talking of numbers below 0.05% IFR.

But that is not what was done. Instead, "genius" moves were copied from China and Italy which made things orders of magnitude worse. Stuffing patients into open floors with other patients increases the odds of death. Sending infected people home to infect the rest of the household, And the real "brainiac" policy of forcing the infected on nursing homes. Then there is the incompetent housekeeping staff at hospitals and nursing homes that have spread the disease among the patients and contracted it themselves due to lack of training and practice. .

The discussion is irrelevant in practical terms. The world, on an immunological basis and according to the stats from China that were confirmed in Korea Japan Taiwan and Singapore (HK had too small of an outbreak to have useful stats) showed 99% comorbidities and statistically 2 or more of them per death BEFORE Mar 1, and that the average age at death was over 75. Thus indicating clearly that isolating the elderly and the ill was the correct procedure, and using simple masks (not even as efficient as N95 types) was known to reduce transmission by 91% according to the German studies published before lockdowns. Meaning that the lockdowns were clearly unnecessary from the start. The only things that should have been stopped were subway packing without masks, limiting density in bars, and dispersing open space office workers. The lockdowns were a purely political "strong hand" exercise. The emergency powers presumed in the lockdown should be explicitly eliminated by law.

 

[Jim Profit + 46]

1 hour ago, 0R0 said:

Again. as mentioned by others, it is entirely unclear that the number of reported CV19 deaths is anywhere the actual number. The primary cause of death is not CV19 in a large number of cases. The CDC guidelines allow a hospital to report a CV19 death without a CV19 positive test. Indeed, it has become quite common to put in CV19 despite negative tests. Mainly because of a generous fixed fee provided courtesy of the tax payer. So if your insurance isn't good enough, you wil be labeled a CV19 case.

You still repeat these and these are still baseless allegations.
The rest of your post is at the same level, unsourced, unverifiable claims.
Unconvincing.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, 0R0 said:

Again. as mentioned by others, it is entirely unclear that the number of reported CV19 deaths is anywhere the actual number. The primary cause of death is not CV19 in a large number of cases. The CDC guidelines allow a hospital to report a CV19 death without a CV19 positive test. Indeed, it has become quite common to put in CV19 despite negative tests. Mainly because of a generous fixed fee provided courtesy of the tax payer. So if your insurance isn't good enough, you wil be labeled a CV19 case.

As to obtaining statistics, it is not possible without individual case reviews. Those will take time.

The actual number to use would be lower. Onhand numbers show at least 25% of CV19 deaths were unrelated to CV19. In Italy, only 12% of CV19 labeled deaths show CT imaging with ground glass which is the defining symptom differentiating it from other causes of death. So using those as bounds, the actual numbers are in between 12% to 75% of those reported, so the overall stat is 0.2% and possibly down to 0.03% (which I doubt). 

The bottom line is that there are huge differences between different geographies. Part of it is that initial viral loadings are a function of proximity and exposure times. Which are extremely high in public transport, and prisons and badly aired open plan offices. If prisons have a near 100% infection rate in open bay structures where distancing is possible, then imagine how much worse it is in your call center floor where distancing is smaller, and in subways and bars where it is much smaller and exposure times are easily hours at a time (in subways it is cumulative hours over days riding the same routes with the same people). Such high loadings are expected to overwhelm immune resistance and slow down remission as constant new virus is being introduced in prisons and hospital wards, particularly the field hospital type settings where no air evacuation is provided. 

But the main point, regardless of the overall numbers, is that the numbers for the under 70 crowd were small from the start, and for the working age folks it was downright tiny, so that there never was a reason to isolate everybody, but just those who were susceptible and those who are in proximity to them daily. We are talking of numbers below 0.05% IFR.

But that is not what was done. Instead, "genius" moves were copied from China and Italy which made things orders of magnitude worse. Stuffing patients into open floors with other patients increases the odds of death. Sending infected people home to infect the rest of the household, And the real "brainiac" policy of forcing the infected on nursing homes. Then there is the incompetent housekeeping staff at hospitals and nursing homes that have spread the disease among the patients and contracted it themselves due to lack of training and practice. .

The discussion is irrelevant in practical terms. The world, on an immunological basis and according to the stats from China that were confirmed in Korea Japan Taiwan and Singapore (HK had too small of an outbreak to have useful stats) showed 99% comorbidities and statistically 2 or more of them per death BEFORE Mar 1, and that the average age at death was over 75. Thus indicating clearly that isolating the elderly and the ill was the correct procedure, and using simple masks (not even as efficient as N95 types) was known to reduce transmission by 91% according to the German studies published before lockdowns. Meaning that the lockdowns were clearly unnecessary from the start. The only things that should have been stopped were subway packing without masks, limiting density in bars, and dispersing open space office workers. The lockdowns were a purely political "strong hand" exercise. The emergency powers presumed in the lockdown should be explicitly eliminated by law.

 

As mentioned, X-ray and/or CT findings can be used for the Dx.  Fever, dry, cough, falling blood oxygenation.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

You can't require a test for every Dx if there are not enough tests or if the tests are junk.  Heck, if you require a+ test for the diagnosis just stop making and tests and the diseases vanishes! LOL  "Just don't look" ignorant bliss / deception is certainly being used by some to purposely under-report cases (politics, economics).

Also if the tests are in short supply do not waste one on someone who clearly has COVID - use them on questionable cases.

The obsession with analytical testing and imaging is getting out of control.  Doctors used to just do physical exams for almost every diagnosis, now it's full blood workup and x-rays for everything. Radiologists get pissed and put "please correlate clinically" at the end of the reports as a dig at the ordering physician; a polite way of saying do your job.

Once again many nations / people do not have "insurance" concerns.  That monetary argument only holds any water in private for-profit health care systems.

 

 

Edited May 26, 2020 by Enthalpic

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 minutes ago, Jim Profit said:

You still repeat these and these are still baseless allegations.
The rest of your post is at the same level, unsourced, unverifiable claims.
Unconvincing.

Others have posted enough references on the matter to establish it as real. I am not going to make the effort as it is redundant. If you want to make an argument then make it. I don't need to consolidate dozens of references from this and other CV19 forum threads to make it easy for you to confirm my findings

This is a specious counter you are making. You are demanding that you be smacked in the face with evidence because making an effort to look for it is too much for you.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

11 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Jim and Enthalpic want to stay home and collect a government check, and NOT have to go to work any more.  What's not to like.  Stop talking against their position, it ruins their plans.  

I get no money.  You have to be willing to work to get free money in Canada. 

Thankfully the bars have reopened so I keep busy.  We are just heading out for taco Tuesday and beers.

Cheers

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

As mentioned, X-ray and/or CT findings can be used for the Dx.  Fever, dry, cough, falling blood oxygenation.  If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

You can't require a test for every Dx if there are not enough tests or if the tests are junk.  Heck, if you require a+ test for the diagnosis just stop making and tests and the diseases vanishes! LOL  "Just don't look" ignorant bliss / deception is certainly being used by some to purposely under-report cases (politics).

Also if the tests are in short supply do not waste one on someone who clearly has COVID - use them on questionable cases.

The obsession with analytical testing and imaging is getting out of control.  Doctors used to just do physical exams for almost every diagnosis, now it's full blood workup and x-rays for everything. Radiologists get pissed and put "please correlate clinically" at the end of the reports as a dig the the ordering physician; a polite way of saying do your job.

Once again many nations / people do not have "insurance" concerns.  That monetary argument only holds any water in private for-profit health care systems.

 

The issue is that people in the age brackets and comorbidities cohorts have a highy elevated annual death rate anyway. The reporting protocol essentially forces their deaths to be recorded as CV19 deaths regardless of the actual cause of death, even in the absence of a positive CV19 test. It has been further exacerbated by financial rewards to doing so. In Italy, as in many other EU nations and the UK, the rewards to the medical institution are similar to those in the Federal US program for compensation. They are designed to cover costs for extreme cases without any accounting.

As indicated by others, the Italian and NY state and others using nursing homes for overflow of the infected produced 50% to 63% of deaths in nursing homes. That is not a pandemic statistic but a policy statistic showing evidence of an incompetent public health and political officialdom. They were as effective as a blunderbuss at target practice.

[Jim Profit + 46]

6 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Others have posted enough references on the matter to establish it as real. I am not going to make the effort as it is redundant.[..]

This is a specious counter you are making. You are demanding that you be smacked in the face with evidence because making an effort to look for it is too much for you.

Nope and nope. Are you trying to bluff me ?
I don't ask other to take my claims at face value, I give sources unsollicited, and will give source if asked.
Don't expect me to spare you the effort.
 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

8 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

The issue is that people in the age brackets and comorbidities cohorts have a highy elevated annual death rate anyway. The reporting protocol essentially forces their deaths to be recorded as CV19 deaths regardless of the actual cause of death, even in the absence of a positive CV19 test. It has been further exacerbated by financial rewards to doing so. In Italy, as in many other EU nations and the UK, the rewards to the medical institution are similar to those in the Federal US program for compensation. They are designed to cover costs for extreme cases without any accounting.

As indicated by others, the Italian and NY state and others using nursing homes for overflow of the infected produced 50% to 63% of deaths in nursing homes. That is not a pandemic statistic but a policy statistic showing evidence of an incompetent public health and political officialdom. They were as effective as a blunderbuss at target practice.

When people have more time we will see how much other causes of death went down.  Some reduction in other causes of death is of course expected (other infections, trauma) but if things like heart disease and cancer all of a sudden went way down then you have a good argument that many of these people were just going to die anyways.

It is way to early to start looking at this through the rear view mirror as if it is over.  Rest assured many, many papers will be written about this for years so we will have some entertainment.

 

I agree that just throwing money at the problem breeds corruption.