Pompeo's Hong Kong

[frankfurter + 562]

https://www.state.gov/prc-national-peoples-congress-proposal-on-hong-kong-national-security-legislation/

"No reasonable person can assert today that Hong Kong maintains a high degree of autonomy from China..."

The art of propaganda is to mix lies with a truth, to fit the agenda of the propagandist. The truth here is, Hong Kong is real and it is identified as Hong Kong SAR. Everything else Pompeo blathers are lies.

The A in SAR is NOT AUTONOMY. The SAR is the abbreviation for SPECIAL ADMINISTRATIVE REGION.

Hong Kong has never had independance, never had suffrage, never had autonomy. What it had for 100 years is brutal, colonial oppression and occupation by Britain: an apartheid state. People of Hong Kong had no citizenship: they were simply residents in the Hong Kong colony; they were never citizens of the UK. 

Hong Kong has always been part of greater China, racially, culturally, geographically.  The colonial era did not magically change an ethnic Chinese person into some other ethnicity. HK was taken from Imperial China by force. HK was returned in peace. Ponder that.

Why did Britain argue so strongly for the SAR?  To benefit Britain, not the HK residents. At the time, HK was the major banking and trade centre in Asia. No way were the Brits about to give up all that wealth and political clout freely. To avoid prolonged conflict and possible war, China acceded to the novel concept of a SAR, based greatly upon good faith in the 'elders' at that time.

Those elders profited immensely from the SAR and the open door to China's development, to the tune of $ trillions. Where they failed is not politically or economically: they failed their own people, the 'young' generation. The elders took their cash and hid it, ran with it, spent it lavishly - on themselves. They invested nothing in the new generation. This is the crux of discontent in HK. 

But the HK elders were not unique: they followed an example and were enabled by it, that of the 0.1% in the USA. 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

...and yet Taiwan/Formosa has NOT been a part of mainland China since the late 1800’s, yet China can still claim it! Interesting, is it not?

Edited May 28, 2020 by Douglas Buckland

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

https://www.state.gov/prc-national-peoples-congress-proposal-on-hong-kong-national-security-legislation/

"No reasonable person can assert today that Hong Kong maintains a high degree of autonomy from China..."

The art of propaganda is to mix lies with a truth, to fit the agenda of the propagandist. The truth here is, Hong Kong is real and it is identified as Hong Kong SAR. Everything else Pompeo blathers are lies.

The A in SAR is NOT AUTONOMY. The SAR is the abbreviation for SPECIAL ADMINISTRATIVE REGION.

Hong Kong has never had independance, never had suffrage, never had autonomy. What it had for 100 years is brutal, colonial oppression and occupation by Britain: an apartheid state. People of Hong Kong had no citizenship: they were simply residents in the Hong Kong colony; they were never citizens of the UK. 

Hong Kong has always been part of greater China, racially, culturally, geographically.  The colonial era did not magically change an ethnic Chinese person into some other ethnicity. HK was taken from Imperial China by force. HK was returned in peace. Ponder that.

Why did Britain argue so strongly for the SAR?  To benefit Britain, not the HK residents. At the time, HK was the major banking and trade centre in Asia. No way were the Brits about to give up all that wealth and political clout freely. To avoid prolonged conflict and possible war, China acceded to the novel concept of a SAR, based greatly upon good faith in the 'elders' at that time.

Those elders profited immensely from the SAR and the open door to China's development, to the tune of $ trillions. Where they failed is not politically or economically: they failed their own people, the 'young' generation. The elders took their cash and hid it, ran with it, spent it lavishly - on themselves. They invested nothing in the new generation. This is the crux of discontent in HK. 

But the HK elders were not unique: they followed an example and were enabled by it, that of the 0.1% in the USA. 

 

HK as you think of it today didn't exist when the UK tussled with China, it was only a rocky island without much population. The city grew after that rock was coerced from China by the British.

[frankfurter + 562]

5 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

...and yet Taiwan/Formosa has NOT been a part of mainland China since the late 1800’s, yet China can still claim it! Interesting, is it not?

uh, the topic is HK, not TW.  Have you difficulties to stay on topic?  Are you trying to twist history because you know it not, or because of what you wish to believe? 

Since pre-recorded history, like about 6000 years, TW has been inhabited by ethnic Chinese peoples: not what became Japanese, not what became Vietnamese, etc. TW was officially part of the Qin dynasty, starting ca 1680. This continued until the Japanese invaded and wrested TW away by brutal force from the Qin, ca 1895.  That's about 200 years for the Qin rule. Japan continued to rule TW until it lost WW2, so say 50 yrs or so. The China civil war occurred during, with both sides, ROC and PRC, claiming to be the legit govt for China, and thus both lay claim to TW as being part of China.  ca 1945, the USA transported ROC officials to TW, to take up rule. PRC vehemently opposed this foreign intervention to divide China, and continued its claim to TW, for the reason PRC was the legitimate govt for all of China. The USA said no, the ROC was the legitimate govt for all of China, a most ludicrous position. Later, in 1978, the USA did indeed recognise the PRC as China's sole legitimate govt. The people of TW are ethnic Chinese; the people of China are ethnic Chinese [obviously]; the people of China have always inhabited TW and they have wanted it returned to China since 1895. A foreign power, the USA, has prevented the reunification for the past 80 years.

The people of China seek a peaceful reunification. But they will fight if pushed to such extent.  As everything in this forum reverts to discussion and threat of war from the USA for just about every topic, the question is whether YOU are willing to see your country go to war against a nuclear power to prevent a reunification of ethnic peoples. Are you willing to see your sons and daughters die? For what and whom? Before your army fires the first shot, you should think very deeply about the consequences. Trump beats his war drum now, so this issue is of utmost importance. 

 

[frankfurter + 562]

5 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

HK as you think of it today didn't exist when the UK tussled with China, it was only a rocky island without much population. The city grew after that rock was coerced from China by the British.

ah, yet another 'murcan history professor. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

We must all bow to Hotdog’s view of history....All Hail Hotdog!

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

7 hours ago, frankfurter said:

The people of TW are ethnic Chinese; the people of China are ethnic Chinese [obviously]; the people of China have always inhabited TW and they have wanted it returned to China since 1895.

Let's see now:   the people of the United States are ethnically British and French, the people of Canada are ethnically British and French, so one should invade the other and re-unify them, by force of arms.  Brilliant.

Just brilliant. 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

The people of Germany are ethnic Teutons; the people of Holland are ethnic Germans.  The Germans shouold invade the place to re-unify the two. 

Oops.  They tried that.  Didn't quite work out so hot.  Oh, well.  At least the Canadian troops got laid out of the deal.

[0R0 + 6,251]

15 hours ago, frankfurter said:

https://www.state.gov/prc-national-peoples-congress-proposal-on-hong-kong-national-security-legislation/

"No reasonable person can assert today that Hong Kong maintains a high degree of autonomy from China..."

The art of propaganda is to mix lies with a truth, to fit the agenda of the propagandist. The truth here is, Hong Kong is real and it is identified as Hong Kong SAR. Everything else Pompeo blathers are lies.

The A in SAR is NOT AUTONOMY. The SAR is the abbreviation for SPECIAL ADMINISTRATIVE REGION.

Hong Kong has never had independance, never had suffrage, never had autonomy. What it had for 100 years is brutal, colonial oppression and occupation by Britain: an apartheid state. People of Hong Kong had no citizenship: they were simply residents in the Hong Kong colony; they were never citizens of the UK. 

Hong Kong has always been part of greater China, racially, culturally, geographically.  The colonial era did not magically change an ethnic Chinese person into some other ethnicity. HK was taken from Imperial China by force. HK was returned in peace. Ponder that.

Why did Britain argue so strongly for the SAR?  To benefit Britain, not the HK residents. At the time, HK was the major banking and trade centre in Asia. No way were the Brits about to give up all that wealth and political clout freely. To avoid prolonged conflict and possible war, China acceded to the novel concept of a SAR, based greatly upon good faith in the 'elders' at that time.

Those elders profited immensely from the SAR and the open door to China's development, to the tune of $ trillions. Where they failed is not politically or economically: they failed their own people, the 'young' generation. The elders took their cash and hid it, ran with it, spent it lavishly - on themselves. They invested nothing in the new generation. This is the crux of discontent in HK. 

But the HK elders were not unique: they followed an example and were enabled by it, that of the 0.1% in the USA. 

 

Thanks for the party line narrative.

The HK young's lack of prospects is due to the opening of the large container ports up the coast from HK. The big employer industry was in the business of moving and finishing Chinese exports through the HK ports. That was done on very rich margins and paid the people well. That died with the opening of the competing mainland ports. Jobs and pay didn't keep up. The upper ranks in HK were not able to do anything about it. There was nothing to invest in to prevent this fall in lucrative mass employment opportunities.

The ability of China to pull CCP critics out of both the population and the business and finance community for retribution is the crux of the matter. Just like the extradition law would  have. It DOES mark the end of the SAR arrangement and makes HK a repulsive location to do business.

Pompeo is entirely correct.

You, @frankfurter, as is usual, are not providing anything other than propaganda, which you are euxplaining here nicely. Thank you dear teacher for the lesson in Ministry practice.

Your characterization of HK is both irrelevant and a lie. Just as your attempt elsewhere to tell Jews that they are not Jews, pulling out all the stops on generating a totally fictional history. And providing a twisted interpretation of what little was fact.

Detach yourself from the CCP that threatens your country's existence and prosperity Throw a CCP official out the window.

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

9 hours ago, frankfurter said:

uh, the topic is HK, not TW.  Have you difficulties to stay on topic?  Are you trying to twist history because you know it not, or because of what you wish to believe? 

Since pre-recorded history, like about 6000 years, TW has been inhabited by ethnic Chinese peoples: not what became Japanese, not what became Vietnamese, etc. TW was officially part of the Qin dynasty, starting ca 1680. This continued until the Japanese invaded and wrested TW away by brutal force from the Qin, ca 1895.  That's about 200 years for the Qin rule. Japan continued to rule TW until it lost WW2, so say 50 yrs or so. The China civil war occurred during, with both sides, ROC and PRC, claiming to be the legit govt for China, and thus both lay claim to TW as being part of China.  ca 1945, the USA transported ROC officials to TW, to take up rule. PRC vehemently opposed this foreign intervention to divide China, and continued its claim to TW, for the reason PRC was the legitimate govt for all of China. The USA said no, the ROC was the legitimate govt for all of China, a most ludicrous position. Later, in 1978, the USA did indeed recognise the PRC as China's sole legitimate govt. The people of TW are ethnic Chinese; the people of China are ethnic Chinese [obviously]; the people of China have always inhabited TW and they have wanted it returned to China since 1895. A foreign power, the USA, has prevented the reunification for the past 80 years.

The people of China seek a peaceful reunification. But they will fight if pushed to such extent.  As everything in this forum reverts to discussion and threat of war from the USA for just about every topic, the question is whether YOU are willing to see your country go to war against a nuclear power to prevent a reunification of ethnic peoples. Are you willing to see your sons and daughters die? For what and whom? Before your army fires the first shot, you should think very deeply about the consequences. Trump beats his war drum now, so this issue is of utmost importance. 

Utter nonsense, or what I've come to expect from you and your lackeys on this forum. Ooohh get mad, post an extra thousand spam articles Frank. 

Taiwan was inhabited by ethnic Taiwanese 6000 years ago and to this day. They're called "Mountain People" by the ethnic Fujian who crowded onto the island after the Dutch and eventually the Japanese made the place habitable. Since I'm certain you've never been there, you're no doubt unaware of just how vicious the natives were. Chinese didn't go because they'd get their heads chopped off by native boys earning their tattoos (which they could only receive by killing someone). To this day there are the occasional killings by mountain people going "native" and the Chinese are still afraid of them, even though like American Indians their numbers are decimated. 

Taiwan wanted no part of the government or mainland China dropping in on them. If it hadn't been for Dulles, that Criminal in the US government betraying Chang Kai Shek there's no way Mao wins the Civil War once Japan is beaten. But Chang was fighting two fronts, the Japanese and the traitorous Mao, who didn't care how many Chinese civilians were killed by the Japanese. He even thanked Japan for helping him. But yeah, your hero. 

What happened with Taiwan and the Guomingdong was like the US has another Civil War, the government loses and sets up shop in Puerto Rico.  The bad news for Puerto Rican people is there are congressmen pretending to represent their 50 home states and voting through whatever they want, while being nice enough to give the natives 2 votes for their island. I'm not defending how the Guomingdong acted. However they at least have history going back to Sun Yet Sun, and Mao goes back to Stalin. Your "historic rights" are meaningless given that the CCP claiming kinship with all Chinese is ludicrous. They're just the tyrants in charge at the moment. They've got no historic precedence over the Chinese people. They're just the kleptocrats at the top, paying you your wumao pittance while collecting their billions. That you keep defending them shows you're not nearly as smart as you pretend. 

Edited May 28, 2020 by Ward Smith
Stupid auto correct changed

[0R0 + 6,251]

8 hours ago, frankfurter said:

uh, the topic is HK, not TW.  Have you difficulties to stay on topic?  Are you trying to twist history because you know it not, or because of what you wish to believe? 

Since pre-recorded history, like about 6000 years, TW has been inhabited by ethnic Chinese peoples: not what became Japanese, not what became Vietnamese, etc. TW was officially part of the Qin dynasty, starting ca 1680. This continued until the Japanese invaded and wrested TW away by brutal force from the Qin, ca 1895.  That's about 200 years for the Qin rule. Japan continued to rule TW until it lost WW2, so say 50 yrs or so. The China civil war occurred during, with both sides, ROC and PRC, claiming to be the legit govt for China, and thus both lay claim to TW as being part of China.  ca 1945, the USA transported ROC officials to TW, to take up rule. PRC vehemently opposed this foreign intervention to divide China, and continued its claim to TW, for the reason PRC was the legitimate govt for all of China. The USA said no, the ROC was the legitimate govt for all of China, a most ludicrous position. Later, in 1978, the USA did indeed recognise the PRC as China's sole legitimate govt. The people of TW are ethnic Chinese; the people of China are ethnic Chinese [obviously]; the people of China have always inhabited TW and they have wanted it returned to China since 1895. A foreign power, the USA, has prevented the reunification for the past 80 years.

The people of China seek a peaceful reunification. But they will fight if pushed to such extent.  As everything in this forum reverts to discussion and threat of war from the USA for just about every topic, the question is whether YOU are willing to see your country go to war against a nuclear power to prevent a reunification of ethnic peoples. Are you willing to see your sons and daughters die? For what and whom? Before your army fires the first shot, you should think very deeply about the consequences. Trump beats his war drum now, so this issue is of utmost importance. 

 

The people of China don't seek anything peaceful, they don't really matter, they have no voice. Only the CCP leadership has a voice and the capacity to decide. It wants to control Taiwan and integrate it into China for geostrategic purposes and to gain control of chip and high end electronic technology that was grown there.

Your historical diatribe is irrelevant. Just like your antisemetic historical diatribe about Zionism.Besides being full of half truths, the entire argument was false. The CCP never was, is not now, nor ever will be a legitimate government of China. It is the fart hanging over the country of China since it left the back end of the USSR. The "recognition" by the West was a large mistake. China should not have been able to deliver representatives to the security council. The sole and unique legitimizing factor of the CCP dictatorship of China is the fact that it was recognized by the Western democratic governments. Otherwise, it is just a foreign occupying force over China. Just as were the Mongols before them. And the other foreign despots who ruled over China from Beijing.

There is no ethnic unification argument to be made for China. It has existed as both polyethnic single country, and multiplicity of countries of han Chinese and Cantonese and others. There is no historical unification argument. The natural state of China is a separate Beijing in the Northwest and several states along the coast. The Southern provinces are not Han Chinese at all. HK Guangdong Shenzhen are no more Chinese than the Uighurs. Being forced CCP propaganda and mandarin on them does not make them into part of the Northern primitive tribes that make up the CCP. Being told that you are Han Chinese does not make you one.

As usual a specious argument for the CCP troll resident here.

CCP is not legitimate. It is no more "Chinese" than the Mongols were. It is the leftover stench of the cold war still hanging over the country. China built a concrete and steel land by their people under the CCP's misguided plans on top of 40% of the arable land, assuring that one bad year in agriculture or any hiccup in global trade will cause famine.

Instead of spending your time bloviating as the CCP's other mouth, go find yourself a CCP official and dump them out the window.

 

Edited May 28, 2020 by 0R0

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

If it hadn't been for Dulles, that Criminal in the US government betraying Chang Kai Shek there's no way Mao wins the Civil War once Japan is beaten

Can you expand more on this? What did Dulles do?

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Can you expand more on this? What did Dulles do?

Dulles and his cronies at State were busy selling the US down the river. There's a book I've lost possession of, which unfortunately I can't remember the title of, which goes into great detail on this. 

I found This gem online that was written somewhat contemporaneously with (the then) events. Dulles isn't mentioned by name but Alger Hiss, Atcheson and others are. My other source was a retired KMT general. While they were expecting the promised (by Dulles) arms to replenish their supplies largely consumed keeping 2 million Japanese soldiers from entering the fray against the US Forces in the Pacific, what actually arrived? Crates and crates of useless garbage. Machine guns with no firing pins, mortars with no ammo, the list goes on and on. While Dulles was testifying about the great assistance we were giving our allies in China, he was busy stabbing them in the back. His later moves concerning Qemoy were forced on him by the President, but by then the serious damage had been done. 

The Deep State isn't some new thing. It's been around at least as long as the Soviet Union had their global ambitions and realized how easily duped Americans were by useful idiots and outright spies and moles. From the link above: 

Quote

The process by which minds like Acheson’s and his intellectual satellites’ in the Department and in China arrived at these pathetically twisted views about China and Russia is somewhat more obvious now than it was a few years ago. There is a thing we might call the cult of intellectualism, which includes a good many people who are not intellectuals. It embraces a number of top-lofty souls who imagine they swim in some more luminous ether than the harsh air near the ground of reality. In many it is little more than a pose. There were others who saw in Russia a mixture of good and bad elements and who imagined that, by some alchemy, the bad might one day be eliminated and the good assume the mastery. At the bottom of this notion was the conviction that society had gotten out of hand, that the modern society contains so many hostile elements that there is no way to order and peace and finally to the good life for all, save under the assumption of control by the “experts” to produce a planned society. These people had managed to dress up and perfume this notion in such a way that they could support it without even being called socialists. They saw in Russia a historic and dramatic experiment to produce the good life through a planned society. It was a first trial, full of missteps and pitfalls. They have been willing to excuse the mistakes and even the cruelties of the experimenters in Moscow, hoping that out of it might come something that the world could use.

They indignantly deny the imputation of communism. They do not even like to be called socialists. The term “planned society” appeals to them, expresses their philosophy without the ugly proletarian stain of the socialist or Communist labels. The remodeling of society is a job not for the ranting soapboxers of Union Square, but for the engineers, the scientists, the philosophers and the experts generally. It is in reality socialism in cap and gown or even in a high hat and frock coat. The truth is that in certain quarters it had simply become out of style to believe in the thing called capitalism. It is not the style to believe in communism. But it is a mark of the large mind not to be narrowly intolerant of communism, and among these gentry it had come to be a little vulgar to defend capitalism. When we add to this the fact that the organized Communists and near-Communists in America had something like a million votes to deliver in critical polling places in a few industrial states, we can begin to perceive how a mixture of lofty philosophy and low politics could produce their strange tolerance for Stalin and his gang.

 

[ralfy + 55]

The British (with some U.S. involvement) wanted to reverse financial losses due to trade with China by illegally smuggling opium into the country. The goal was to earn from it while weakening China at the same time. Obviously, China tried to fight back, lost, and was forced to cede HK.

In short, HK belonged to China from the start, but the Western powers used that and more to try to weaken China and take control of it. In time, they failed, but even after, China allowed HK to remain autonomous because it was an important trading and finance center. As more cities in China, including Shanghai, became more prominent, making HK less relevant.

Meanwhile, the U.S. has to find every means to counter not just China but the rest of BRICS and over forty emerging markets, and that includes supporting protests in HK. Meanwhile, more Hongkongers are getting angry at protesters because the latter are affecting their businesses.

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

28 minutes ago, ralfy said:

The British (with some U.S. involvement) wanted to reverse financial losses due to trade with China by illegally smuggling opium into the country. The goal was to earn from it while weakening China at the same time. Obviously, China tried to fight back, lost, and was forced to cede HK.

In short, HK belonged to China from the start, but the Western powers used that and more to try to weaken China and take control of it. In time, they failed, but even after, China allowed HK to remain autonomous because it was an important trading and finance center. As more cities in China, including Shanghai, became more prominent, making HK less relevant.

Meanwhile, the U.S. has to find every means to counter not just China but the rest of BRICS and over forty emerging markets, and that includes supporting protests in HK. Meanwhile, more Hongkongers are getting angry at protesters because the latter are affecting their businesses.

"For years, the Chinese had conducted their foreign policy through the tribute system, in which foreign powers wishing to trade with China were required first to bring a tribute to the emperor, acknowledging the superiority of Chinese culture and the ultimate authority of the Chinese ruler. Unlike China’s neighbors, the European powers ultimately refused to make these acknowledgements in order to trade, and they demanded instead that China adhere to Western diplomatic practices, such as the creation of treaties. Although the unequal treaties and the use of the most-favored-nation clause were effective in creating and maintaining open trade with China, both were also important factors in building animosity and resentment toward Western imperialism."

Also: 

"Unlike Great Britain, the United States agreed that anyone involved in the opium trade or the smuggling of contraband would be prosecuted under Chinese law, but, with that exception, the treaty allowed for other Americans in China to be afforded the benefits of extraterritoriality"

[frankfurter + 562]

11 hours ago, 0R0 said:

The people of China don't seek anything peaceful, they don't really matter, they have no voice. Only the CCP leadership has a voice and the capacity to decide. It wants to control Taiwan and integrate it into China for geostrategic purposes and to gain control of chip and high end electronic technology that was grown there.

Your historical diatribe is irrelevant. Just like your antisemetic historical diatribe about Zionism.Besides being full of half truths, the entire argument was false. The CCP never was, is not now, nor ever will be a legitimate government of China. It is the fart hanging over the country of China since it left the back end of the USSR. The "recognition" by the West was a large mistake. China should not have been able to deliver representatives to the security council. The sole and unique legitimizing factor of the CCP dictatorship of China is the fact that it was recognized by the Western democratic governments. Otherwise, it is just a foreign occupying force over China. Just as were the Mongols before them. And the other foreign despots who ruled over China from Beijing.

There is no ethnic unification argument to be made for China. It has existed as both polyethnic single country, and multiplicity of countries of han Chinese and Cantonese and others. There is no historical unification argument. The natural state of China is a separate Beijing in the Northwest and several states along the coast. The Southern provinces are not Han Chinese at all. HK Guangdong Shenzhen are no more Chinese than the Uighurs. Being forced CCP propaganda and mandarin on them does not make them into part of the Northern primitive tribes that make up the CCP. Being told that you are Han Chinese does not make you one.

As usual a specious argument for the CCP troll resident here.

CCP is not legitimate. It is no more "Chinese" than the Mongols were. It is the leftover stench of the cold war still hanging over the country. China built a concrete and steel land by their people under the CCP's misguided plans on top of 40% of the arable land, assuring that one bad year in agriculture or any hiccup in global trade will cause famine.

Instead of spending your time bloviating as the CCP's other mouth, go find yourself a CCP official and dump them out the window.

 

man, you are one sicko racist. To claim the Chinese people do not seek anything peaceful is pure bigotry, racism, hatred.  But, you are free to express your views, albeit those views are not based upon fact. The saddest part about you is you cannot express them without first attacking the person. Such is the hallmark of a cowardly racist. 

[frankfurter + 562]

7 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Dulles and his cronies at State were busy selling the US down the river. There's a book I've lost possession of, which unfortunately I can't remember the title of, which goes into great detail on this. 

I found This gem online that was written somewhat contemporaneously with (the then) events. Dulles isn't mentioned by name but Alger Hiss, Atcheson and others are. My other source was a retired KMT general. While they were expecting the promised (by Dulles) arms to replenish their supplies largely consumed keeping 2 million Japanese soldiers from entering the fray against the US Forces in the Pacific, what actually arrived? Crates and crates of useless garbage. Machine guns with no firing pins, mortars with no ammo, the list goes on and on. While Dulles was testifying about the great assistance we were giving our allies in China, he was busy stabbing them in the back. His later moves concerning Qemoy were forced on him by the President, but by then the serious damage had been done. 

The Deep State isn't some new thing. It's been around at least as long as the Soviet Union had their global ambitions and realized how easily duped Americans were by useful idiots and outright spies and moles. From the link above: 

 

Thank you for confirming the USA behaved dastardly and continues to be the crux of the problem. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

man, you are one sicko racist. To claim the Chinese people do not seek anything peaceful is pure bigotry, racism, hatred.  But, you are free to express your views, albeit those views are not based upon fact. The saddest part about you is you cannot express them without first attacking the person. Such is the hallmark of a cowardly racist. 

And yet...you have no issues with attacking anyone who disagrees with you...🤔

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

man, you are one sicko racist. To claim the Chinese people do not seek anything peaceful is pure bigotry, racism, hatred.  But, you are free to express your views, albeit those views are not based upon fact. The saddest part about you is you cannot express them without first attacking the person. Such is the hallmark of a cowardly racist. 

So let me get this straight. You go on an anti Semitic screed, and that's alright, but when @0R0 points out the obvious fact that the "peasantry" of China don't even have a voice in the affairs of government there, that's racist? You're a real piece of work. Better jam up this site with 500 more copy and pasted "articles", I know you're behind it. Wumaodang 

[frankfurter + 562]

32 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

And yet...you have no issues with attacking anyone who disagrees with you...🤔

Fact: the attacks upon me were started by members of this forum, not to mention all the libel. I am simply responding in kind.

 

[frankfurter + 562]

6 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

So let me get this straight. You go on an anti Semitic screed, and that's alright, but when @0R0 points out the obvious fact that the "peasantry" of China don't even have a voice in the affairs of government there, that's racist? You're a real piece of work. Better jam up this site with 500 more copy and pasted "articles", I know you're behind it. Wumaodang 

You, too, are adept to twist words to your agenda.  ORO's offending libel is, quote, "the Chinese people do not seek anything peaceful" . 

Since you raise it: please tell me when YOU have ever had a voice in the affairs of your government?  As far as I know, only a very few members of Congress, Senate, Judiciary, Secretaries have actual input to any decisions taken by the Whitehouse.  The average citizen has never been consulted on any issue. I am told this is how a republic functions. If you wish to uphold your political system of outright lies and abuse of your constitution, you certainly have that right. But a system of lies and abuse is hardly a model to follow. 

 

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

50 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

Fact: the attacks upon me were started by members of this forum, not to mention all the libel. I am simply responding in kind.

 

Well, that’s quite mature of you.

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

4 hours ago, frankfurter said:

To claim the Chinese people do not seek anything peaceful is pure bigotry

Smoochiekins, as usual you take things out of context, it's kinda boring how you do this every time. It's like watching a movie you already know the ending of over and over. Bill Murray called, he said Ground Hog Day belongs to him, get your own identity man!  💓

Edited May 29, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

12 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

There is a thing we might call the cult of intellectualism, which includes a good many people who are not intellectuals. It embraces a number of top-lofty souls who imagine they swim in some more luminous ether than the harsh air near the ground of reality.

Sounds familiar. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 hours ago, frankfurter said:

You, too, are adept to twist words to your agenda.  ORO's offending libel is, quote, "the Chinese people do not seek anything peaceful" . 

Since you raise it: please tell me when YOU have ever had a voice in the affairs of your government?  As far as I know, only a very few members of Congress, Senate, Judiciary, Secretaries have actual input to any decisions taken by the Whitehouse.  The average citizen has never been consulted on any issue. I am told this is how a republic functions. If you wish to uphold your political system of outright lies and abuse of your constitution, you certainly have that right. But a system of lies and abuse is hardly a model to follow.

You have deliberately taken the statement out of context, as the end of the sentence explains the first.

Being the racist that you are, you have deflected outwards on others, as is appropriate for this emotional disorder. You continue in showing your disease in deflecting the null voice of the Chinese in their own system. The Western system not only allows individuals to speak to power, it allows them to FORM power, political trends and countertrends and politics eventually follows despite many efforts to resist. In the US, people speak to their representatives at the national level and at the state level and municipal and county levels. This very much affects how the politicians vote at the grass roots level. The leaderships of the parties and the bureaucracy do their best to do the steering rather than be steered by the public mood, but they are only capable of doing so to a limited extent. Eventually the rank and file politicians will deny support to the leadership if their vocal home district folks won't have it.

In America, the average citizen is not consulted, those who care TELL the politicians where they need to go in order to gain their support.

Considering that you come out of a system with nothing but power and no consultative processes within it, I doubt that you can identify what goes on in a democratic system. It just seems like chaos to you. Yes, the politicians and the bureaucracy always try to remove the checks on their power and expand their authority while shrugging off responsibility. When it becomes too much, they hear about it. FDR created a labor and bureaucracy system that was very oppressive and corrupt - similar to a Soviet system, yet his party lost soon after his death, and the process of tearing apart his construct continued for decades, interrupted by Democratic congresses. We have been here before.

China is at a dead end till the CCP collapses along with the economy.

Do your people a favor and hasten the arrival of that day. Throw a CCP official out the window.