Would bashing China solve all the problems of the United States

[Marcin2 + 724]

This obvious conclusion after watching US media and top US politicians requires not much further comment.

If US would critisize China strong enough it would solve the following US problems:

- high budget deficit,

- high trade deficit,

- Covid epidemic,

- high crime prevalence 

- uncontrolled illegal immigration

- American obesity problem

- high government debt

- rising unequalities in society

- high level political corruption called lobbying

and many, many others

Edited May 28, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

Marcin,

Do you ever watch the news out of China, especially CCTV4? It is all US bashing blame the US for everything, selective clips of US military exercises, selected clips on US race relations, constant clips showing ‘gifts’ of PPE to developing countries during the pandemic, etc... It is constant anti-American, pro-CCP propaganda.

The US media has glaring faults, I agree, but you need to present what the other side is doing as well or you are simply guilty of propaganda as well! 

[Hotone + 412]

9 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Marcin,

Do you ever watch the news out of China, especially CCTV4? It is all US bashing blame the US for everything, selective clips of US military exercises, selected clips on US race relations, constant clips showing ‘gifts’ of PPE to developing countries during the pandemic, etc... It is constant anti-American, pro-CCP propaganda.

The US media has glaring faults, I agree, but you need to present what the other side is doing as well or you are simply guilty of propaganda as well! 

I don't watch China news.  Given your recommendation I will give it a try.  Is CCTV4 in English? Where can I get this channel , is it available on Unifi?   

Edited May 28, 2020 by Hotone

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

It’s not in Englsh, my wife translates as required. I just access it through Astro, but I think you can get it through unifi. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

2 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

This obvious conclusion after watching US media and top US politicians requires not much further comment.

If US would critisize China strong enough it would solve the following US problems:

- high budget deficit,

- high trade deficit,

- Covid epidemic,

- high crime prevalence 

- uncontrolled illegal immigration

- American obesity problem

- high government debt

- rising unequalities in society

- high level political corruption called lobbying

and many, many others

Interesting...all i can say is if they do not start posting prices and delivery times on all those menus they hang in this forum i will most certainly file a complaint with the WTO..Imagine the audacity of posting menu's and no prices...

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

3 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

This obvious conclusion after watching US media and top US politicians requires not much further comment.

If US would critisize China strong enough it would solve the following US problems:

- high budget deficit,

- high trade deficit,

- Covid epidemic,

- high crime prevalence 

- uncontrolled illegal immigration

- American obesity problem

- high government debt

- rising unequalities in society

- high level political corruption called lobbying

and many, many others

Your entire premise seems to be a red herring and doesn't appear to have any point, issues will exist criticizing or not, it has no impact nor is anyone claiming it will except (possibly) for the trade deficit/budget deficit and rising inequality.

high budget deficit, is party caused by the large trade deficit

high trade deficit, yeah with China

Covid, pandemics happen

High Crime? Have you bothered to look at current US crime rates? They're near multi-decade lows

Uncontrolled illegal immigration, pretty sure theres not much of that at this time and the problem aspects of it is debatable. Everybody likes low cost food. Immigration is also a sign your country is doing comparatively well, no one's crawling on their hands knees to get into Russia or China. I'd be far more concerned if people stopped trying to come to America, then you know there's a problem.

American Obesity, agreed

High Government Debt, yep, pretty much like most other countries that aren't named Germany. Net worth of US still keeps growing by Trillions a year even with the debt, this year is an exception of course.

Rising inequality, It's already risen, partly because of uncontrolled trade with China.

high level of corruption called lobbying, agreed

many, many others, ???

You sound like the country your trolling from has none of these? Am I to assume you have no illegal immigration? Don't you think thats telling you something about the place you call home?

Edited May 28, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing

[ralfy + 55]

3 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

This obvious conclusion after watching US media and top US politicians requires not much further comment.

If US would critisize China strong enough it would solve the following US problems:

- high budget deficit,

- high trade deficit,

- Covid epidemic,

- high crime prevalence 

- uncontrolled illegal immigration

- American obesity problem

- high government debt

- rising unequalities in society

- high level political corruption called lobbying

and many, many others

The U.S. follows a neoliberal model following Reaganomics, with deregulation which empowers Wall Street. The latter, in turn, has been in control of the economy and the government for a long time, as it essentially makes up the Federal Reserve (a private consortium of Wall Street banks) and funds the government, especially the military industrial complex. That complex has been used to keep the dollar (and later, the petrodollar) propped up, and is the means by which the expensive military is funded plus consumer spending in the U.S. It's also the main reason why, given the Triffin dilemma, increasing debt and spending are inevitable. Finally, that's the bases of growth of the U.S. middle class.

That said, bashing China may solve U.S. problems. That is, from neoliberalism the country will end up protecting its economy (which is what China has been doing for itself), with the military downgraded extensively, most of the middle class returning to factories and farms, and the U.S. dollar falling apart.

The catch is that Wall Street, which essentially owns the U.S. economy and which is the main source of funds of both political parties and the military, won't support that.

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

This obvious conclusion after watching US media and top US politicians requires not much further comment.

If US would critisize China strong enough it would solve the following US problems:

- high budget deficit,

- high trade deficit,

- Covid epidemic,

- high crime prevalence 

- uncontrolled illegal immigration

- American obesity problem

- high government debt

- rising unequalities in society

- high level political corruption called lobbying

and many, many others

it isn't criticism, it is establishing the grounds for detaching from China entirely.

To answer the question, the US and the world as a whole face a far worse outcome from remaining in contact with China than withdrawing from it methodically. It will collapse economically. In the interim, Xi's nationalists will try to divert the public from their increasingly sad lot in life with military action and bullying diplomacy, which is turning ever more people against it, and taking the bought and paid for politicians with it away from China.

The vast majority of the problems you are pointing to are the result of the China trade, or rather the hollowing out of US industry by subsidized imports from China competing with endless credit at their backs and hardly any possibility of financial stress from the losses as they get rolled over decade after decade.

This isn't China bashing.

When China gets no oil or grain imports, that will be China bashing. When, not if, CCP officials have their assets abroad frozen, that will be CCP bashing, not China bashing.

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

“American Obesity, agreed”

I have to laugh at this. Apparently America is the only Western country with an obesity problem! Take a look at any affluent European country and Australia...no fat folks there - correct.

Here in Malaysia obesity and diabetes are recognized as as serious problem.

But never-mind, it makes the rest of the world happy to think that the majority of Americans are obese.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

16 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

“American Obesity, agreed”

I have to laugh at this. Apparently America is the only Western country with an obesity problem! Take a look at any affluent European country and Australia...no fat folks there - correct.

Here in Malaysia obesity and diabetes are recognized as as serious problem.

But never-mind, it makes the rest of the world happy to think that the majority of Americans are obese.

+1

Almost the whole world is fat, the rest are starving to death. 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

6 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

+1

Almost the whole world is fat, the rest are starving to death. 

I, on the other hand, am just ‘heavy for my height’.

Don’t be calling me fat!!!

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

High Crime? Have you bothered to look at current US crime rates? They're near multi-decade lows

 

That will probably change really fast.  High unemployment and depressed economy drives up crime.  "Free" government stimulus money might hold that off for a while, but when that runs out, watch out.

Also almost certainly some increase in domestic violence due to forcing people to spend time with their annoying families.

We might even see some increase in non-domestic violence from political / social unrest.  Several on this forum have no problem making death threat "jokes."  Unless civil war is declared it's just murder.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Marcin2 + 724]

Douglas - Chinese media are worse than American,

Eyed Wide Open - I did not understand his joke about WTO

Strange - these problems would exist No matter how much bashing or not, and some of them are (partly) caused by China, these are common problems of developed countries,

ralfy - diagnosis about origins of most problems from the list, Machiavellian idea that China bashing and isolationism could help cause US would re-emerge like phoenix from ashes After the short term demiseand the right conclusion that aristocracy/0.01%/Wall Street would not allow these reforms,

0R0 - another Machiavellian idea that bashing is not about diversion from real sources of problems but to facilitate decoupling ( vast majority of these problems are never the less of China trade origin) and the usual conclusion by 0R0: CWC.

MY idea was the most similar to what strange... said: problems would exist bashing or not. most of these problems are typical for many developed countries and they are also not solved like in US.

 

What is EXCEPTIONAL, unique in US approach is the choice of China to be the scapegot and trying to find external culprits for problems of domestic origin. Completely self-harmful approach of US politicians. As with CCP and China, I make here distinction that the core of the problem are US politicians and media they control and not Americans.

Yeah, many countries have 1. large budget, trade deficits, high government debt and lately 2.Covid epidemic but most of them understand that 1. We just do not like to consume within our means, 2. Epidemics just happen, culprit is evolution of species. Some countries were better and some less prepared, like in every other issue.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Interesting...all i can say is if they do not start posting prices and delivery times on all those menus they hang in this forum i will most certainly file a complaint with the WTO..Imagine the audacity of posting menu's and no prices...

If you have to ask.....

[Marcin2 + 724]

7 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I, on the other hand, am just ‘heavy for my height’.

Don’t be calling me fat!!!

My BMI has No mercy for me, gained a lot during epidemic, but also do not like this f-word.

Obesity is most prevalent civilizational illness also present in Poland.

I do not watch Chinese TV and it is more about that I cannot stand propaganda not That i do not speak Chinese. In Poland you No longer can watch news at state TV it is so biased, Fox is best journalism in comparison to it.

 

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

1 minute ago, Marcin2 said:

My BMI has No mercy for me, gained a lot during epidemic, but also do not like this f-word.

Obesity is most prevalent civilizational illness also present in Poland.

I do not watch Chinese TV and it is more about that I cannot stand propaganda not That i do not speak Chinese. In Poland you No longer can watch news at state TV it is so biased, Fox is best journalism in comparison to it.

 

ALL ‘journalism’ is biased at this time. It is now almost impossible just to get facts. The print and other media outlets must feel that we are all idiots and that we need their personal input to form a rational opinion. At some point this needs to stop and news outlets must be held accountable for libel and slander. This ‘protecting my source’ bullshit needs to go as well. If you can’t site your source, then it is simply here-say or an opinion...which belongs in the editorial section, not the front page.

The US founding fathers obviously thought that news outlets would always behave in a moral manner or else the would have included the terms responsible in the term ‘a free press’.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

7 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

If you have to ask.....

It seems we finally have a President who does have the foundational intellect to do just that. Just what is the price this United States paying...and it seems that is a bit to obtuse for many.

Edited May 28, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

China is being its own worst enemy. Right now they're fighting with India on their border for no strategic reason but tactically creating distraction from the morass their citizens find themselves in. 

[BradleyPNW + 282]

15 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

This obvious conclusion after watching US media and top US politicians requires not much further comment.

If US would critisize China strong enough it would solve the following US problems:

A sizable portion of America traffics in persecution complex culture. In the past I'd say political liberals were always crying about suffering persecution. Today, Trump supporters make liberals look like stony-faced stoics. Gawd, they are some pussified mofos. 

Even though things are good in America there will always be people trying to blame the man for holding them down. China deserves heaps of criticism but they aren't to blame for America's problems. 

[canadas canadas + 136]

Sheldon Adelson is a very big donor supporter of both Donald Trump in the United States and Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel.  He owes much of his current prosperous financial situation to his big Macau, China casino. Is there any potential for conflict of interest here?  

[El Gato + 251]

On 5/18/2020 at 6:53 PM, UNC12345 said:

 

 

19 minutes ago, canadas canadas said:

Sheldon Adelson is a very big donor supporter of both Donald Trump in the United States and Benjamin Netanyahu in Israel.  He owes much of his current prosperous financial situation to his big Macau, China casino. Is there any potential for conflict of interest here?  

That has what to do with this thread?🙄🤣🤣

[Marcin2 + 724]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

It seems we finally have a President who does have the foundational intellect to do just that. Just what is the price this United States paying...and it seems that is a bit to obtuse for many.

Please explain this joke about WTO, English is foreign language for me.

[Marcin2 + 724]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

China is being its own worst enemy. Right now they're fighting with India on their border for no strategic reason but tactically creating distraction from the morass their citizens find themselves in. 

Ward, you would again think it is pro-China biased opinion but the FACT is India, its people and its PM Modi desperately, badly need any diversion at this VERY moment. I will explain.

India is under lockdown, and this devastated Indian economic results, at least April 2020 results.

Steel output in April 2020 3.1 million tons in April 2019 9.0 million tons. It is 3 times smaller !

I do not understand why Indian industry was affected so badly, but the decrease is the worst in the world.

US output decreased by 32% in April, bad results but not different from 2008 financial crisis, nothing special.

EU steel output  -23% also typical crisis results also nothing special.

Indian April 2020 coal electricity out put was -38% in comparison to April 2019

What more the harsh lIndian ockdown that kept millions people stranded and in acute hunger is not working.

I also do not understand why.

Daily numbers of new cases and deaths  are still increasing . And the lockdown is prolonged till end of May 2020.

So to conclude: Modi has to do something spectacular to divert attention of masses from tragic economic situation and outbreak of epidemic.

What is at Modi disposal:

- War with Pakistan - too dangerous,

- harsh anti- Muslim laws and crackdown on Kashmir - this option was already utilized

- border clashes with China - very good, not dangerous, relatively spectacular, controllable, it would be elaborately and globally publisized by US media cause it relates to China.

I would also choose border conflict with China.

How Modi has to play this scenario:

- it has to brew slowly until the harsh inflection point, I think limited casualties on both sides are needed, the moment of inflection point depends how bad is domestic situation in India,

- calming down the whole situation, but conflict needs to brew, with regular but not spectacular events,

- conflict needs to be long, at least till epidemic is contained, even till early winter of 2020, later it would be too cold.

- if economic situation in India is still bad, there should be some truce and negotiations in winter,

- the conflict has to restart in spring 2021,

Let the games begin !

Edited May 28, 2020 by Marcin2
typo

[0R0 + 6,251]

10 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Douglas - Chinese media are worse than American,

Eyed Wide Open - I did not understand his joke about WTO

Strange - these problems would exist No matter how much bashing or not, and some of them are (partly) caused by China, these are common problems of developed countries,

ralfy - diagnosis about origins of most problems from the list, Machiavellian idea that China bashing and isolationism could help cause US would re-emerge like phoenix from ashes After the short term demiseand the right conclusion that aristocracy/0.01%/Wall Street would not allow these reforms,

0R0 - another Machiavellian idea that bashing is not about diversion from real sources of problems but to facilitate decoupling ( vast majority of these problems are never the less of China trade origin) and the usual conclusion by 0R0: CWC.

MY idea was the most similar to what strange... said: problems would exist bashing or not. most of these problems are typical for many developed countries and they are also not solved like in US.

 

What is EXCEPTIONAL, unique in US approach is the choice of China to be the scapegot and trying to find external culprits for problems of domestic origin. Completely self-harmful approach of US politicians. As with CCP and China, I make here distinction that the core of the problem are US politicians and media they control and not Americans.

Yeah, many countries have 1. large budget, trade deficits, high government debt and lately 2.Covid epidemic but most of them understand that 1. We just do not like to consume within our means, 2. Epidemics just happen, culprit is evolution of species. Some countries were better and some less prepared, like in every other issue.

The popular pickup of China as the source of the problems is because unlike Europe and other countries that blocked large chunks of Chinese imports, the US had not done so. There was a degree of obliviousness to Chinese import's effects on the US labor market and strategic industries. The subsidies for Chinese export industries were reflected in SP500 company's income statements and in their executive suite's compensation.  That is part and parcel of the income stratification in the US, and the social problems incurred. That includes being obese, as it is to a large extent a result of having a grain diet for people that should be eating a much more expensive diet of proteins and fats. They are driven to this by the drop in real incomes caused by competition with loss making Chinese production.

VAT was one of the means by which Europe transferred the burden of its domestic public services onto the imports and off their domestic production, thus they managed to hang on to industries that were displaced by US imports from China. They also had no problem using administrative tools to block Chinese import incursions by arbitrarily penalizing them.

Epidemics happen because of isolation. Thus a lack of immunity shared among the people in the global community. In this case, the isolation was inside the Wuhan Virology lab as they haphazardly constructed "enhanced" viruses. Just like the arrival of the Conquistador's germs and viruses wiped out the native populations of the Americas.

I do know to say that China's fanning the spread of the SARS Wuhan coronavirus was a deliberate act of war against the entire world outside it. I don't know and expect it was not a deliberate release, but just another stumble in the CCP's headlong rush to achieve a military advantage. They just went well over their skis. The public pronouncements by the now infamous "bat lady" Dr. Zhi Zhingli are pretty much a taunt at the West and ammounts to a threat of releasing more of her arsenal of enhanced viruses.

Nobody in their right minds should want to have anything made in China. Definitely not pharmaceuticals and not technology products. Detaching is the only road forward. Excise the country out of supply chains finance and commerce. Let the people of China deal with the cost of being under CCP rule, rather than allow them to export that cost to the world.

[Marcin2 + 724]

 @0R0 the problem is some secret pact that was between China and US governments ?

US surrendered part of its independence, and like during opium wars had to import the cheap and harmful consumer goods from China: like electronics, furniture, toys etc ?

Otherwise I do not understand your point of blaming China.

I do not know any person that after shopping blames the mall owners that they spent too much money.

To explain again, I know about the bias and fact of blaming China, that is why I started this thread in the first place.

But the question is why making China scapegoat brings us any closer to the soultion of US domestic problems.

For example trade deficit: the consumer goods would be bought not in China but in Vietnam or Bangladesh or Mexico, total trade deficit would not change.

And if you want to spent 2,000 dollars for US manufactured desk, instead of 500 dollars for Made in China or Vietnam, you can also do it now, the same will be in the future. China has no impact on this situation.

And so on.