Would bashing China solve all the problems of the United States

[0R0 + 6,251]

5 hours ago, Hotone said:

You are joking, right? Besides Europeans care about human rights.  If as you pointed out, the European demographic is aging AND shrinking, it would make sense to accept immigrants to rejuvenate and grow the populations.  

Half joking.

Taking on the burden of refugees during a depression is not something with a precedent in Europe. At some point an enterprising coastal power in the Mediterranean will see Europe closing its doors to refugees and those being landed on it as a terrible burden so they will try to prevent more of them from coming. So they will make a big show of shooting up a few boats so that social media can send the message :"don't even try."

Europe has had a terrible time integrating refugees and even worse getting them to produce anywhere near the levels of their home grown labor.  Perhaps different results would happen if they imported refugees from Coastal China.

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 hours ago, canadas canadas said:

China has been one of the bigggest beneficiaries of the West's neoliberal economic policies for the last 40 years.  This first started with the U.S. approachment with China in the 1970s through Kissinger and Nixon.  Ever since, the U.S. middle class has declined and their jobs erroded and being taken over mostly by China.  As most Americans have been making less and less, they have been fed a diet of cheaper made in China goods in a vicious downward economic cycle to the bottom where the less you have the more you spend on cheaper Chinese goods.  WM and Dollar Stores have led the way. Of course this leads to one eventually losing whatever is left of one's job here by buying these. Thus, this fighting bluster between U.S. and China looks like dramatic phony b/s.  With over 40 milion U.S. unemployed in the last two months of CV-19 and U.S. billionaires adding over 400 billion dollars to their wealth in the last two months of CV-19, this amounts to around $10,000 for each unemployed person.  It is obvious that this is neoliberalism at its best and since China is a very important part of this neoliberal equation, many neoliberals are not going to let go of China since China is a very important tool of neoliberal economics in suppressing the economic power of workers in the West. Without China and its cheaper production workforce base, there is no Western neoliberalism possible. 

China's cheap labor has disappeared. The vast production of China for exports can be produced more cheaply in the US with automation because the materials and parts are produced within the US. The only impediments are investing the capital and finding the labor to train and employ. Further credit stimulus, capital flight into the US, and the large expected residual of the unemployed left after the recovery are likely to make it possible.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

16 hours ago, SUZNV said:

-Do the super rich people included professional politicians like the Clinton or  the Obama? We all know how much did they have before and after they leave the White House? Yet somehow these facts are ignored. If they can accumulate wealth legally from their careers, why should any other non politician cannot while they took their own risks to build what they have legally?

Trump hid his wealth numbers before his presidency, and will almost certainly after.  It's easier to hide graft if you don't disclose initial or final numbers. He was also born with a silver spoon in his mouth - do not confuse that with business acumen.

[SUZNV + 1,197]

56 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

Trump hid his wealth numbers before his presidency, and will almost certainly after.  It's easier to hide graft if you don't disclose initial or final numbers. He was also born with a silver spoon in his mouth - do not confuse that with business acumen.

What is wrong with being born with a silver spoon, precisely? How much Obama or Clinton net worth before and after their presidency? Why couldn't they have much before they entered the White house but after that? By writing books or public speeches? Any one would buy their books or pay for public speeches that much if they were not  US (former or current) presidents? So how do we accuse any US president using their presidency career for making money? 

If your career is as a public servant since you graduated, naturally you have to show your salaries and incomes because part of your  incomes in your career came from public taxes.  Trump's salary before becoming President was not from tax payers, at least not directly, why would he need to show anything? And why would he need to show his net worth afterward if he doesn't take presidential salary? 

How many standards do we have here?

Edited May 31, 2020 by SUZNV

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

46 minutes ago, SUZNV said:

Trump's salary before becoming President was not from tax payers, at least not directly, why would he need to show anything? And why would he need to show his net worth afterwards if he doesn't take presidential salary? 

 

If you think trump is not gaining financially from this presidential debacle you are delusional.  

He refuses to live in the white house and has people outfit his New York tower and his Florida golf resort with secret service. The monthly rent the secret service is paying his buildings each month is probably far larger than a silly elected positions salary. 

He is also using market manipulations to his advantage.  Rich people get richer with market fluctuations - especially with insider knowledge.  You think he doesn't talk to his financial advisors before making some tweet that will stir the world markets up?

An unscrupulous "businessman" with political power will make money for himself every time.

 

[ralfy + 55]

5 hours ago, 0R0 said:

China's cheap labor has disappeared. The vast production of China for exports can be produced more cheaply in the US with automation because the materials and parts are produced within the US. The only impediments are investing the capital and finding the labor to train and employ. Further credit stimulus, capital flight into the US, and the large expected residual of the unemployed left after the recovery are likely to make it possible.

I think something like a decade ago, it was reported that 60 pct of their manufacturing involves assembly of parts manufactured in other countries. Meanwhile, more of their workers prefer moving to the service sector, just like their U.S. counterparts.

Also, automation has been taking place in several countries, not just in the U.S.

Another catch is that robots aren't consumers, while automation leads to more productivity for which investments can only be paid if there are more buyers, and that in turn means having more people with higher-paying jobs. Otherwise, there's no point in automating.

Finally, all that is premised on ever-increasing energy returns, which aren't taking place.

 

 

[frankfurter + 562]

On 5/30/2020 at 12:57 AM, Ward Smith said:

Notice in the two graphs I left, the cyclical nature of "recessions" in gray.  The argument used in the creation of the Federal Reserve was that only a Federal Reserve Bank could still the boom and bust cycles that had plagued the US economy for the past hundred years. Of course that was a lie, the cycles are on a decadal oscillation and interestingly, the Trump election and subsequent economic miracle ruined the planned for recession that was supposed to happen in 2018-19. 

My banking thread was meant to disabuse the notion people still have that the Fed and every Central Bank somehow exist to keep things on some even keel. Nothing could be further from the truth, the plan is, was and always will be for the owners of those banks (and they're all privately owned) to manipulate things so they get your valuable assets and you end up with their worthless paper. You get to find out just how worthless when they throw a recession your way. 

So true. But who are the manipulators?  Are you condoning the manipulators, or condemning?  If the latter, what actions are you taking?  

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, frankfurter said:

So true. But who are the manipulators?  Are you condoning the manipulators, or condemning?  If the latter, what actions are you taking?  

Condemning. Posting here and elsewhere to open eyes is about as much as I can do. I'm not a big enough fish to move the gears, but can try and jam them up. I voted for Trump because I knew he wasn't part of the plan. Hillary had already collected her bribes. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

5 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

If you think trump is not gaining financially from this presidential debacle you are delusional.  

He refuses to live in the white house and has people outfit his New York tower and his Florida golf resort with secret service. The monthly rent the secret service is paying his buildings each month is probably far larger than a silly elected positions salary. 

He is also using market manipulations to his advantage.  Rich people get richer with market fluctuations - especially with insider knowledge.  You think he doesn't talk to his financial advisors before making some tweet that will stir the world markets up?

An unscrupulous "businessman" with political power will make money for himself every time.

 

Speaking of delusional you're so wrong I don't know where to begin. 

Silver spoon means automatic billionaire? Then what about his brothers and sisters? Same silver, why no billions? 

Measly rents aren't going to move his needle. You're making a category error. I'll make it easy for you. I'm a millionaire, I could give 1000 people $1,000. A billionaire could give each of those people a Million dollars. Just because you're a putz don't imagine everyone else is. 

Every estimate of Trump's wealth has him losing 20-40% of his net worth since taking office. But yeah, according to dipstick you he's making bank. Delusional indeed

Edited June 1, 2020 by Ward Smith

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, ralfy said:

I think something like a decade ago, it was reported that 60 pct of their manufacturing involves assembly of parts manufactured in other countries. Meanwhile, more of their workers prefer moving to the service sector, just like their U.S. counterparts.

Also, automation has been taking place in several countries, not just in the U.S.

Another catch is that robots aren't consumers, while automation leads to more productivity for which investments can only be paid if there are more buyers, and that in turn means having more people with higher-paying jobs. Otherwise, there's no point in automating.

Finally, all that is premised on ever-increasing energy returns, which aren't taking place.

The deep automation will come later, first the opportunity to onshore using suddenly cheap labor. Suddenly extra low rates, Many of the machines that would be necessary are not there yet. E.g. in textiles there was a prototype automated T shirt machine put into production just a couple of years ago. Chemicals and pharma are just facing regulatory costs in the US,which will be swept away  with the right political pressure. The robots for more complex tasks will come in later as the designs mature. Additive manufacturing produces complex parts that were previously (and largely still are assembled from several pieces and fasteners. The missing thing is the scale for the input materials and larger machines. The designs are in place and tried and true at work.

The US and Mexico have a younger consumption age demographic than the rest of the developed world and China. There will be the demand for the production in NAFTA. Where it disappears is in a very big way, China, Japan (ongoing for 2 decades), Korea Germany, Italy Spain the Tiger economies of SE Asia. Those are all old populations without a large Millennial generation to pick up the slack in demand.

Finally, it is the large productivity of the few that makes the fluff service sector and inefficient retail  employ so many people, as they serve the demand from the high productivity folks and thus create more demand for their products.

I am not sure what the energy returns have to do with it.

[SUZNV + 1,197]

6 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

If you think trump is not gaining financially from this presidential debacle you are delusional.  

He refuses to live in the white house and has people outfit his New York tower and his Florida golf resort with secret service. The monthly rent the secret service is paying his buildings each month is probably far larger than a silly elected positions salary. 

He is also using market manipulations to his advantage.  Rich people get richer with market fluctuations - especially with insider knowledge.  You think he doesn't talk to his financial advisors before making some tweet that will stir the world markets up?

An unscrupulous "businessman" with political power will make money for himself every time.

 

You are the one who being delusional by assuming your news source is exclusive and only you know about it. Mainstream makes sure everyone know these. What is your value beside repeating mainstream? What information/analysis can you give me but mainstream cannot?  

It is only common sense for any president, CEO or anyone else to get their standard of company/government fund  pay for their trips/securities, the same for any of your favorite presidents or prime ministers. I mention salary to say he doesn't have any obligation to disclose his income because he didn't pocket any public money from tax payers like other professional politicians who their wealth depend on tax payers or voters.

Rich people get richer, same with Obama or Clinton. All of the politicians/rich using market manipulations to there advantages, because their buy, sell will have high effect on the market, so what is your solution? You can elect anyone else but as long as mainstream don't say bad things about them, you will not know to be fuel with hatred like you are with Trump. Why should your emotion fed by mainstream? It is very stupid to hate/love a stranger because mainstream told you to.

Turn US, Canada,UK, EU etc. into Communism or Socialism and I am sure the situation don't get better, or maybe even worse. How many government promised on Equality to raise to power and keep their promises in the history, please name one.  

I don't even angry at people who can work but choose not to, but I am angry who are looting/burning in the name of justice or anyone one try to manipulate my thinking without any logical sense or repeating mainstream propaganda as if it is a bible and none should have doubt about it when it doesn't make any logical sense.

If the rich got money from bonus, dividends, they do pay tax for their individual tax incomes unless they can avoid any of that legally, so they play by the rule, unlike the Obamagate is unconstitutional and illegal and this surely will undermine any democracy system. People don't trust election, and political war will turn to real war.

Isn't it house and senate job to close these tax holes and what have they done to improve that whenever they have a chance? Why should you blame the people who exploiting them but not the one created them in the first place?  Your would be very shallow to think raising Corporation taxes  or the rich and more regulations is the way for equality as money will find its way. Corporations and the rich take public stocks, pension fund, jobs creation for the hostages, so by damage the corporations and make them move away, you kill the hostages yourself and mission failed, your country is going down.

Voting is just a way to choose for being ripped off by corporations or by governments. Any country where everyone do their best as their free will will create tremendous inequality but the country will benefit as a whole and even the most  unlucky people are benefit from it than a country with perfect equality. Look at the world around you.

Should I stop working and paying tax and join the freebie community then because it is the only way to not being taken advantages of by corporation or government? Would it make me a better person or a happier person or give me more freedom or I will have to be dependent with my political choice, aka I am paid to vote? If you shouldn't hate people because of skin color, religions, appearance, their choices of living, why should you hate people because they are richer/ more successful/ luckier than you? Otherwise you always find some stranger to hate.

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by SUZNV

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

8 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Trump hid his wealth numbers before his presidency, and will almost certainly after.  It's easier to hide graft if you don't disclose initial or final numbers. He was also born with a silver spoon in his mouth - do not confuse that with business acumen.

You keep forgetting about those pesky tax returns.  You know, the ones that every citizen that has income must submit by law?  If there is anything illegal, the IRS will find it and hand it over the the Attorney General for prosecution.  If anyone else wants to see them, tough tutus.  Tax returns are legally protected documents.  The only reason the Left wants to see them is to imply and accuse.  I've even posted a rather thorough comment with the details supporting why my answer is factual.  But you already know all of that, don't you.  (rhetorical question)

[frankfurter + 562]

17 hours ago, 0R0 said:

As usual you invent a ghost narrative out of my writing in order to project a criticism of the resulting shapeless cloud your "reasoning" created.

China USED the "greed" of the 0.1% to offer them free credit and serf labor (that is the Chinese people) to bring production into China. Those are called subsidies and are not "capitalist" and are violations of WTO rules. It is China's actions that drive it, they are the cause. Once a single competitor in an industry is hooked in, all the others must do the same or be extinguished. That argument is FALSE.

The US Fed and government are injecting as much as they can as quickly as they can. The only fast way to helicopter drop money into the economy is via pumping of the financial markets by buying financial assets. It favors the wealthy who have large portfolios of such assets disproportionately. The alternative is to let the economy and financial system collapse due to an act of Chinese BIO-WARFARE, thus aiding China Communist Party in its worldwide genocidal war against humanity. 

It is the CCP who are racist, who enslave "their" people, sell them to the highest payer of kickbacks, and abuse them and kill them at will. The only good thing possible for the Chinese people is to ELIMINATE the CCP so that they can engage with the world as free people. If the CCP had its way, then there would be no people on the planet not enslaved by them.

YOU are a Chinese Nazi, believing in the supremacy of your Fuhrer Xi, and the "han Chinese" super race, which actually means the CCP membership, or 6% of China. How can you live with yourself.

Do your people a favor and save them from the CCP. Throw a CCP official out the window as often as you can get away with it.

Bro, you need help. You are allowing your hatred and racism to get the better of you. 

The Nazis here are you and your govt. The hallmark of a Nazi is to blame a race or creed for your ills, and to keep your general citizenry ignorant of your chosen enemy.  This is precisely what you, Trump, Congress, AIPAC, state governors, and more are espousing against China.  You need only to read a news channel, any channel, to see this. A Nazi will strike first and ask questions later, which is precisely what your presidents Bush, Obama, Trump have done. The danger of this is extreme. 

To date, this danger is being kept in check by the 1-way direction: US vitriol directed to China. How long the Chinese people will tolerate this is anybody's guess. But when the vitriol becomes 2-way, history proves the entire world will be risked.  Who started the vitriol? USA. Who dropped the 1st atomic bomb? USA.  Who desires to resume 'testing' of atomic bombs? USA.  Who has reneged on many treaties unilaterally in the past 10 years? USA. Who has over 900 military bases dispersed throughout the world? USA. Who brags about their ability to destroy the world 20x over with their nuclear weapons? USA.  etc.  [fyi, the Chinese admit their weakness in this respect, for China can destroy the world only 1x over, so far]. 

In your warped mind, China threatens you, when in fact China challenges you to compete. But threat or challenge, the extent is economic only. YOUR threat is far, far worse, and, if carried, threatens the world with annihilation.

The challenge sane people have is how to eliminate war-mongers like you. A dire challenge when Nazis like you are ready to push the big red button. 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by frankfurter

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Every estimate of Trump's wealth

I know you guys love fake numbers.

Carry on.

Edited June 1, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

 

Every estimate of Trump's wealth has him losing 20-40% of his net worth since taking office. But yeah, according to dipstick you he's making bank. Delusional indeed

Making America great? Everyone has lost 20-40% since him taking office!

Praise trump!

Edited June 1, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

 

Measly rents aren't going to move his needle.

Nor is a silly government salary I was comparing it to.   Him declining a paycheck is virtue signalling... simultaneously he will order his staff to waste more than that amount in a single day.  "Fly me to a golf course."

Old people....

[Marcin2 + 725]

10 hours ago, 0R0 said:

China's cheap labor has disappeared. The vast production of China for exports can be produced more cheaply in the US with automation because the materials and parts are produced within the US. The only impediments are investing the capital and finding the labor to train and employ. Further credit stimulus, capital flight into the US, and the large expected residual of the unemployed left after the recovery are likely to make it possible.

China 154,000 and US 40,000 industrial robots installed in 2018.

China is the largest market since 2013.

But you are right that pace of automation in comparison to US is  slower

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

12 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Bro, you need help. You are allowing your hatred and racism to get the better of you. 

The Nazis here are you and your govt. The hallmark of a Nazi is to blame a race or creed for your ills, and to keep your general citizenry ignorant of your chosen enemy.  This is precisely what you, Trump, Congress, AIPAC, state governors, and more are espousing against China.  You need only to read a news channel, any channel, to see this. A Nazi will strike first and ask questions later, which is precisely what your presidents Bush, Obama, Trump have done. The danger of this is extreme. 

To date, this danger is being kept in check by the 1-way direction: US vitriol directed to China. How long the Chinese people will tolerate this is anybody's guess. But when the vitriol becomes 2-way, history proves the entire world will be risked.  Who started the vitriol? USA. Who dropped the 1st atomic bomb? USA.  Who desires to resume 'testing' of atomic bombs? USA.  Who has reneged on many treaties unilaterally in the past 10 years? USA. Who has over 900 military bases dispersed throughout the world? USA. Who brags about their ability to destroy the world 20x over with their nuclear weapons? USA.  etc.  [fyi, the Chinese admit their weakness in this respect, for China can destroy the world only 1x over, so far]. 

In your warped mind, China threatens you, when in fact China challenges you to compete. But threat or challenge, the extent is economic only. YOUR threat is far, far worse, and, if carried, threatens the world with annihilation.

The challenge sane people have is how to eliminate war-mongers like you. A dire challenge when Nazis like you are ready to push the big red button. 

 

I blame the Communist bandits and the spreaders of their narrative of genocidal murderous enslavement as beneficial to humanity and somehow justified. I have no issues with China or the Chinese, but sympathy for their condition and pity that they have not overthrown the CCP. A Nazi is a national socialist who believes their race is superior and their country is the center of the universe. Who practice fascist economic models where government decides who gets to allocate capital and to what purpose.

You are supporting the CCP, defending and promoting their false narratives and hiding their malignant aspirations. You are a TOOL. It is the CCP that is the war monger, it just chooses to conduct its war as quietly and underhandedly as possible without direct confrontation. The world is now completely aware of what China has done, how they did so and for what purpose, and are readying themselves to be rid of CCP controlled China in their trade and industrial systems.

The Communist bandits have stolen China's future, created conditions for starvation and will be helpless to control the economic collapse of the unsustainable system they created. The only  concern of the CCP is to remain in power indefinitely, for their children to inherit the country, as they are the defacto  aristocracy imposed on China and have just anointed Xi to be their emperor. 

Do yourself and your people a favor and help them be rid of the CCP. Throw a CCP official out the window.

[BradleyPNW + 282]

On 5/30/2020 at 10:06 PM, SUZNV said:

Talk about legal and laws, you have to question about motives first:

-Why should Putin helped Trump win the election while Dem is against shale oil?

-The only argument support Russia Gate is true because Flynn plead guilty, in laws, many innocent people plead guilty because it is the cheapest option for them. If you have to choose between losing your accumulated assets  and 2 years in prison (and lost 2 year incomes), people simply choose prison or you want a big debt which you cannot pay for the rest of your life. Anyone here would choose differently? Flynn have the motive to plead guilty and surely it is not from his remorse.

-Obama Gate with all the declassification which are strong evidences could be turned into conspiracy because of the above? What is the logic in that?

Democrats aren't against shale oil. Bernie lost, remember? Hillary Clinton encouraged Europe to frack their natural gas reserves while Putin was funding opposition to fossil fuels. https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/06/20/russias-quiet-war-against-european-fracking/. Hillary is smart and screws things up for Putin. Donald is a moron, easily rolled by Putin. 

Democrats are in favor of solar and wind. As are many Republicans (e.g. ex-DOESEC Rick Perry, Texas.) Solar and wind are bad for Putin. Russia is natural resource rich and intellectual property light. 

But I'm not pointing that out as evidence Putin interfered in the 2016 election. We know Putin interfered on behalf of Donald  Trump because US intelligence services detailed the evidence. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

I'm also not saying Putin's interference actually helped Donald win the 2016 election. Donald won the election through the electoral college by only ~70K votes divided between three states. Donald would have won even if Putin didn't interfere. However, Putin did interfere on Trump's behalf and the problem with that is Donald was grateful for the interference. Donald is anti-American. He will happily sell the United States out for a slice of American apple pie. 

We know Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI because he was guilty. We don't need to wonder if he pleaded guilty because he was running out of money. We don't need to wonder because the DNI released the Flynn-Kislyak transcript summary. Flynn is guilty, end of story. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/read-the-transcripts-of-michael-flynns-calls-with-russian-diplomat

Obamagate is a crackpot conspiracy theory for reasons already explained in earlier posts. It is also another example of Donald Trump's anti-American behavior. Donald is more than happy to attack US intelligence and security services for his personal gain. He even stooped next to Putin like a little bitch boi in Helsinki and said he believed Putin's word over the entire US intelligence community and national security apparatus. 

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by BradleyPNW

[Hotone + 412]

3 hours ago, 0R0 said:

I blame the Communist bandits and the spreaders of their narrative of genocidal murderous enslavement as beneficial to humanity and somehow justified. I have no issues with China or the Chinese, but sympathy for their condition and pity that they have not overthrown the CCP. A Nazi is a national socialist who believes their race is superior and their country is the center of the universe. Who practice fascist economic models where government decides who gets to allocate capital and to what purpose.

You are supporting the CCP, defending and promoting their false narratives and hiding their malignant aspirations. You are a TOOL. It is the CCP that is the war monger, it just chooses to conduct its war as quietly and underhandedly as possible without direct confrontation. The world is now completely aware of what China has done, how they did so and for what purpose, and are readying themselves to be rid of CCP controlled China in their trade and industrial systems.

The Communist bandits have stolen China's future, created conditions for starvation and will be helpless to control the economic collapse of the unsustainable system they created. The only  concern of the CCP is to remain in power indefinitely, for their children to inherit the country, as they are the defacto  aristocracy imposed on China and have just anointed Xi to be their emperor. 

Do yourself and your people a favor and help them be rid of the CCP. Throw a CCP official out the window.

You have a deep hatred and rage against the CCP because you think that China is ripping America off in trade.  You can relax.  According to this article, analysts from research firm Gavekal Dragonomics reported  that in 2016, American business sales in China topped $450 billion, while the Chinese sales in the U.S. were less than $50 billion.  When balanced against China's $350 billion merchandise  trade surplus, America is winning.  This has been happening for a few years already.

https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/01/after-coronavirus-chinas-economy-looks-set-to-grow-as-world-braces-for-contraction.html

FYI, the Chinese people are very happy with the CCP government.  Researchers found that 84 percent of people in China trust their government, the highest level worldwide.  In contrast, only 33% of Americans trust the government in 2018, and going by the riots, the percentage must be much lower at this point.  

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2018/01/22/the-countries-that-trust-their-government-most-and-least-infographic/

The CCP also tops another satisfaction survey with the most citizens rating its performance in containing the Coronavirus epidemic favourably.

https://seasia.co/2020/05/09/global-rank-public-approval-of-covid-19-crisis-management

 

Edited June 1, 2020 by Hotone

[SUZNV + 1,197]

2 hours ago, BradleyPNW said:

Democrats aren't against shale oil. Bernie lost, remember? Hillary Clinton encouraged Europe to frack their natural gas reserves while Putin was funding opposition to fossil fuels. https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/06/20/russias-quiet-war-against-european-fracking/. Hillary is smart and screws things up for Putin. Donald is a moron, easily rolled by Putin. 

Democrats are in favor of solar and wind. As are many Republicans (e.g. ex-DOESEC Rick Perry, Texas.) Solar and wind are bad for Putin. Russia is natural resource rich and intellectual property light. 

But I'm not pointing that out as evidence Putin interfered in the 2016 election. We know Putin interfered on behalf of Donald  Trump because US intelligence services detailed the evidence. https://www.dni.gov/files/documents/ICA_2017_01.pdf

I'm also not saying Putin's interference actually helped Donald win the 2016 election. Donald won the election through the electoral college by only ~70K votes divided between three states. Donald would have won even if Putin didn't interfere. However, Putin did interfere on Trump's behalf and the problem with that is Donald was grateful for the interference. Donald is anti-American. He will happily sell the United States out for a slice of American apple pie. 

We know Michael Flynn pleaded guilty to lying to the FBI because he was guilty. We don't need to wonder if he pleaded guilty because he was running out of money. We don't need to wonder because the DNI released the Flynn-Kislyak transcript summary. Flynn is guilty, end of story. https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/read-the-transcripts-of-michael-flynns-calls-with-russian-diplomat

Obamagate is a crackpot conspiracy theory for reasons already explained in earlier posts. It is also another example of Donald Trump's anti-American behavior. Donald is more than happy to attack US intelligence and security services for his personal gain. He even stooped next to Putin like a little bitch boi in Helsinki and said he believed Putin's word over the entire US intelligence community and national security apparatus. 

 

First, you suggested that Putin helped Trump  because he was afraid of US renewable energy industry would make oil demand suffer in next 4-8 years in 2016?x The Western world have never interfered with other elections? Do you seriously believe in that? Countries always interfere to their enemy/rival/subordinate elections, sometimes it leads to war.

With Flynn pleaded guilty, without evidence, you don't care about his motive. Of course his motive is not on the transcript because he couldn't say "I pleaded guilty because I am broke". If pleaded guilty is accepted as evidence, then all the investigator needs to  do is asking "what crime do you want him to plead" and tortures the suspects physically or mentally and we don't need jury  or lawyers. 

And it is Flynn, not Trump but because Trump is his leader, then Trump is guilty for anti America charge and deserve the impeachment, again without any evidence.

And you call Obamagate with strong declassified evidences is conspiracy theory. And all Obama or Biden need to do is saying they knew nothing about that, the same way you accuse Trump in the above.

Seriously you need to do Laws101 to have some legal standards or logic. Your confidence doesn't come from how you understand the legal system works but from the "reputable" mainstream sources do the thinking for you and if they couldn't persuade half of the US, you shouldn't try. Why should we arguing about anything if the other keep shifting his standards case by case?

Edited June 1, 2020 by SUZNV

[BradleyPNW + 282]

3 hours ago, SUZNV said:

First, you suggested that Putin helped Trump  because he was afraid of US renewable energy industry would make oil demand suffer in next 4-8 years in 2016?x The Western world have never interfered with other elections? Do you seriously believe in that? Countries always interfere to their enemy/rival/subordinate elections, sometimes it leads to war.

With Flynn pleaded guilty, without evidence, you don't care about his motive. Of course his motive is not on the transcript because he couldn't say "I pleaded guilty because I am broke". If pleaded guilty is accepted as evidence, then all the investigator needs to  do is asking "what crime do you want him to plead" and tortures the suspects physically or mentally and we don't need jury  or lawyers. 

And it is Flynn, not Trump but because Trump is his leader, then Trump is guilty for anti America charge and deserve the impeachment, again without any evidence.

And you call Obamagate with strong declassified evidences is conspiracy theory. And all Obama or Biden need to do is saying they knew nothing about that, the same way you accuse Trump in the above.

Seriously you need to do Laws101 to have some legal standards or logic. Your confidence doesn't come from how you understand the legal system works but from the "reputable" mainstream sources do the thinking for you and if they couldn't persuade half of the US, you shouldn't try. Why should we arguing about anything if the other keep shifting his standards case by case?

Sorry, I wasn't clear but I am happy to clarify: Putin's motivation to help Donald was, "Hillary is smart and screws things up for Putin. Donald is a moron, easily rolled by Putin."

Also, countries do not always interfere in their enemy's elections. That an American president would allow a shit-hole country like Russia to interfere in America's elections is one of the many examples of Donald's anti-Americanism. 

Your Flynn timeline is jumbled. 1st, Flynn talked to Kislyak. Later, the FBI interviewed Flynn and asked him if he talked to Kislyak about sanctions. Flynn responded no. Thus, a US NSA was guilty of lying to the FBI. Flynn also lied to VP Pence. Donald Trump stated he fired Flynn for lying to the FBI and Pence. The judge in Flynn's case gave him ample opportunity to withdraw his guilty plea. Flynn said he was fully aware of all the implications of pleading guilty. Plus, you know, the FBI had a transcript of Flynn's conversation with Kislyak in their hands so it would be hard for Flynn to win a case where he was caught red handed. 

As I already explained, Obamagate is not only crackpot conspiracy theory but also evidence of Trump's anti-American posture. Trump has zero problem attacking US national security services if he thinks for second that it will help him personally. Obamagate is a perfect example of him doing just that. 

Edited June 2, 2020 by BradleyPNW

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 5/31/2020 at 9:17 AM, canadas canadas said:

Without China and its cheaper production workforce base, there is no Western neoliberalism possible. 

Why do you state this? Wasn't neoliberalism a thing before the WTO entry? Not attacking, curious on your point of view.

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

3 hours ago, Hotone said:

You have a deep hatred and rage against the CCP because you think that China is ripping America off in trade.  You can relax.  According to this article, analysts from research firm Gavekal Dragonomics reported  that in 2016, American business sales in China topped $450 billion, while the Chinese sales in the U.S. were less than $50 billion.  When balanced against China's $350 billion merchandise  trade surplus, America is winning.  This has been happening for a few years already.

China is ripping the US off in trade, it's not just about numbers.

So are you recommending everybody in the US should relax, the tippy top of the financial food chain is profiting greatly off trade with China and everybody just ignore all the collateral damage going on beneath that tippy top?

Do realize the protests and riots your seeing in the US is partly tied into this issue? The time for willful blindness is over, what your seeing now is the initial shockwaves of new power structures forming grass roots wise in the US and worldwide. The digital generation is just starting to flex their muscle.

[Douglas Buckland + 6,308]

On 5/31/2020 at 10:34 PM, Hotone said:

The speaker is a former President of the United Nations Security Council.  He predicts that there will be more migrant boats coming to Europe.  

I went for a holiday in Italy in 2016 and I saw a lot of migrants at the railway station. 

Unlike the US, I don't think Europe can build a wall.
 

Maybe you can’t build a wall, but you can stop allowing ‘refugees’ to come ashore. If they know in advance that they will not be allowed ashore and that the various coast guards will stop rescuing people who knowingly attempt the crossing on unseaworthy vessels...they would stop making the attempt.

They simply do not have the right to illegally immigrate or invade another country. Yes, some would drown, but as adults they should realize that decisions have consequences.