0R0 + 6,251 May 31, 2020 8 hours ago, Enthalpic said: -25% from the published numbers is progress. @Ward Smith still thinks they are about -80%. The lower bound, that actual numbers must be higher than, is 12%. I don't believe it is anywhere near that low. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0R0 + 6,251 May 31, 2020 13 hours ago, Enthalpic said: Honestly, if its effectiveness is better demonstrated I could see giving almost everyone a dose upon admission if they demonstrate COVID symptoms. Zinc is probably the key and is very, very safe and should be taken by everyone - hell add it to the water. Agree with you on Zinc. But had to wait months for my normal order to get filled. None at the grocery stores nor at warehouse clubs. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enthalpic + 1,496 May 31, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, 0R0 said: Agree with you on Zinc. But had to wait months for my normal order to get filled. None at the grocery stores nor at warehouse clubs. Huh, I haven't notice a run on zinc, but I always have a bunch of 50mg zinc gluconate tabs on hand. I could go on for a long time about the wonders of zinc... Highly effective against both viral and bacterial infections - both respiratory and gastrointestinal (e.g. diarrhea). Increases testosterone levels in older men. Prevents stress-induced fall in testosterone in younger men. Powerful antioxidant, prevents oxidative liver damage from things like alcohol. Improves mineral status but not just zinc, magnesium and other mineral status also improves. Oddly supplementation with magnesium increases zinc levels, and supplementation with zinc increases magnesium levels. This is why the expensive testosterone boosters (don't buy them) are just Zn, Mg, and some b vitamins. Zinc is required for several enzymes to function I could go on... Edited May 31, 2020 by Enthalpic Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eyes Wide Open + 3,554 May 31, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, Enthalpic said: Yes! We can agree, there are some drug risks but the virus kills far more - perhaps try some medicines. This is far different ideology / presentation from "what do we have to lose?" as if HCQ was harmless. Responsible usage accepts there is potentially something to lose. -25% from the published numbers is progress. @Ward Smith still thinks they are about -80%. So may i ask is i better to do nothing at all? Studies and research do little for those about to face death. In your thought process, do you believe doctors are not competent enough to grasp risk mgmt? It seems scientists from across the world as the article states are finally bring scrutiny to this hot political argument of safety... https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/500236-massive-hydroxychloroquine-study-raising-health-concerns-about-the-drug Edited May 31, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enthalpic + 1,496 May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said: So may i ask is it better to do nothing at all? Studies and research do little for those about to face death. In your thought process, do you believe doctors are not competent enough to grasp risk mgmt? It seems scientists from across the world as the article states are finally bring scrutiny to this hot political argument of safety... https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/500236-massive-hydroxychloroquine-study-raising-health-concerns-about-the-drug I'm convinced it may help some. I also think that for other groups it may do more harm than good. It is up to the individual clinician to decide on a case by case basis. Generally, you do not want to use a drug when it is not needed. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BLA + 1,666 BB May 31, 2020 (edited) 18 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said: So may i ask is i better to do nothing at all? Studies and research do little for those about to face death. In your thought process, do you believe doctors are not competent enough to grasp risk mgmt? It seems scientists from across the world as the article states are finally bring scrutiny to this hot political argument of safety... https://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/500236-massive-hydroxychloroquine-study-raising-health-concerns-about-the-drug Politics trumps reason, civility, judgement, doing the right thing, etc Risk management has nothing to do with it Everything, Every Decision, Everything about Anything is now colored with hyper partisan politics Edited June 1, 2020 by BLA 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BLA + 1,666 BB May 31, 2020 (edited) On 5/29/2020 at 3:48 PM, Enthalpic said: . . . . . . I don't even live in the US and never cared about Hilary, personally I wanted Sanders. Yes, I don't like trump. . . . . . Sanders lost to Hillary . . . . Edited June 1, 2020 by BLA 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Yoshiro Kamamura + 274 YK June 1, 2020 (edited) = Edited June 1, 2020 by Yoshiro Kamamura Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 June 1, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 11:29 AM, BLA said: A little hard on the Helliary critique. No ? 😀 She should be in prison though. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SERWIN + 749 SE June 1, 2020 On 5/30/2020 at 11:29 AM, BLA said: A little hard on the Helliary critique. No ? 😀 I was trying to hold back..... 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BLA + 1,666 BB June 2, 2020 Early Outpatient Treatment of Symptomatic, High-Risk Covid-19 Patients that Should be Ramped-Up Immediately as Key to the Pandemic Crisis Dr. Harvey A. Risch Published May 27, 2020 DEPARTMENT OF CHRONIC DISEASE EPIDEMIOLOGY , YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH. https://academic.oup.com/aje/advance-article/doi/10.1093/aje/kwaa093/5847586 "Evidence about use of hydroxychloroquinealone, or of hydroxychloroquine+azithromycin in inpatients, is irrelevant concerning efficacy of the pair in early high-risk outpatient disease. Five studies, including two controlled clinical trials, have demonstrated significant major outpatient treatment efficacy." HCQ administered and monitored by a doctor is extremely safe. One has to monitor the patients electrolytes. Time for the Charlatans in the FDA, NIH, CDC, CNN and Democratic Party need to desist with the Hate Trump mentality and put working to save lives ahead of political power grabs. It's sad state of affairs we find our country in. Very sad. U.S. Congress looks more like a Jerry Springer TV show than a governing legislative body with Statesman and Stateswomen. Just waiting for the fist fights begin then Minority Leader Pelosi (D) throwing a chair at Rep McCarthy (R) in true Jerry Springer TV form. Statesmanship, Respect and Civility is nowhere to be found in the House of Representative, never to return. Let me ask the FDA, CDC, W.H.O. if Hydroxychloroquine is so dangerous and can cause death shouldn't you take it off the market in the U.S. or at least issue a warning for use in treating Malaria, Lupus, and Rheumatoid Arthritis ? HCQ is even approved by the FDA for pregnant women. _____________ ADDENDUM #1 5/30/20: Attached is a post by contributor ORO @oro in response to a HCQ naysayer. He summarizes the point of Dr. Risch's paper in a concise and thorough manner. I think it's important to add here. "The whole 2nd point of Dr. Risch's paper is that there is no such risk. The arrhythmias are not associated with increased mortality beyond the effects of chance in a sample of >300k patients The treatment doses for rheumatic conditions and CV19 both reach the same final blood serum levels. The rhuematic treatment does so slowly, the CV19 does it more rapidly. The constant attempts of the officialdom of the medical establishment to shoot down the one known treatment to save lives is an indication of political pressure to maintain crisis conditions and commercial interests of the 180 companies working on vaccines and treatments for a redundant purpose. These are despicable people working against their medical oaths. Why do you constantly adhere to their malicious nonsense? " _______________ ADDENDUM #2 5/30/20: Doctors lining up to condemn political W.H.O. for halting HCQ trials based on an extremely flawed study published in Lancet. Guardian article on Lancet paper and the seriously question the integrity of the alleged database from Dr. Desai's Surgisphere Corp. Dr.Desai previously worked for NCH and reportedly resigned in February. NCH would not discuss Dr Desai's departure. Dr. Desai's promotes several Surgisphere products including a Covid-19 diagnostic kit which is sold on Amazon. Dr. Desai's Surgisphere Corp will not or can not verify the accuracy of the database or the source of the database. Several Austrailian Hospitals Dr.Desai mentioned as a source have denied ever talking to him. https://www.the-scientist.com/news-opinion/disputed-hydroxychloroquine-study-brings-scrutiny-to-surgisphere-67595 Dr. Kaur continues trial https://mobile.twitter.com/dockaurG/status/1265653536127422464 Doctor Vliet "Waiting until you are in the ICU is like installing home locks and alarm system after burglars have invaded, vandalized your home, and stolen all your valuables,” Vliet added. Edited Sunday at 08:27 AM by BL 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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