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3 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Opinion:

There is a question: Why this is happening ? Now, but also in the past.

I would go from root causes : Level I , through Level II ending at Level III.

Level I:

Lack of political representation:

In US there is bi-party system dominated by 2 parties: and none of the parties has problems of black people on their top agenda.

In multi-party democracy black people could have party with 10% representation in Congress. The party would concentrate on specific needs of this minority and through participation in government coalition with larger party would realize black people agenda.

Level II

Lack of  political representation leads to unequal access to public goods including:

- unequal access to justice system,

- unequal access to healthcare,

- unequal access to domestic  security,

- unequal access to education,

Level III

- black people are Second category citizens, it is some kind of neo-slavery, prevented from access to public goods,

- Lack of access to public goods mainly education: less job opportunities, worse jobs or No jobs,

- shorter life espectancy,

- they cannot realize their life aspirations: a lot of frustration and a lot of anti- social behaviour like rampant crime.

 

Covid-19 special situation have adverse effects on all people, also Afro-Americans, among other things level of stress/frustration rises.

Add their basic frustration and this is unbearable.

Any spark causes big fire.

 

Normally I don't respond to anything you type, and the reasons are as valid now as they have been: you simply either don't know what you are talking about and don't take the time to research whether or not you understand what you type about, or you simply don't care or wish to spread incorrect and mislleading comments.  Please don't tell us about our own form of government and pull "facts" out of your backside to imply that we are not doing anything to better ourselves, our country, and the greater world.  That is just patently wrong.  To that end, I will respond to your comment above, with facts.  However, since I am giving you far more of my time and effort than you deserve, don't count on me to unblock you and read more of your lack of knowledge and incorrect accusations.

Level I - Both parties DO have black/minority representation in the top levels of our government.  Immediately prior to President Trump, we had Barrack Obama, who you might remember was black.  In 2019, the 116th Congress is (we are still in our 116th Congress) is the most racially and ethnically diverse ever.

For the fifth time in a row, the new Congress is the most racially and ethnically diverse ever

More than one-in-five voting members (22%) of the U.S. House of Representatives and Senate are racial or ethnic minorities, making the 116th Congress the most racially and ethnically diverse in history. There has been a long-running trend toward more racial and ethnic diversity on Capitol Hill: Each of the previous four Congresses broke the record set by the Congress before it.

Growing racial and ethnic diversity in CongressOverall, 116 lawmakers today are nonwhite (including blacks, Hispanics, Asians/Pacific Islanders and Native Americans), according to a Pew Research Center analysis of data from the Congressional Research Service. This represents an 84% increase over the 107th Congress of 2001-03, which had 63 minority members.

(more at the link)

In your "Level II" you make a lot of serious assertions, however, as usual, you cite no evidence to support your claims.  My assertion is that you are wrong.  Prove your position with facts or keep it to yourself, because you can't talk like you know the truth unless you cite the truth.

In your "Level II" and indeed throughout your comment you say imply that our government does not even address blacks )and I assume you care about other minorities and women?) in their top party platforms.  Once again, you are wrong.  BOTH parties do so and in the links below are their platforms and position for you to dig into.  I'll just highlight a bit from each party.

GOP (Republican Party) GROUPS

Building our Party is a team effort. You are the driving force of our movement, and our success depends on your involvement in your community. If you are ready to work to protect our fundamental freedoms, to fight for a smarter and more efficient government, and to ensure that every American has an equal opportunity to succeed, then join us. There are many GOP communities you can join and many ways you can get involved. Learn more:

bg-victory365.jpg

JOIN VOLUNTEERING TEAM

Be a part of the movement to secure Republican victories street-by-street, state-by-state, 365 days a year.

SIGN ME UP

 
 

 

THE ISSUES (Democrat Party)

Every four years, the Democratic Party puts together our party platform, the ideas and beliefs that govern our party as a whole.

What follows is a selection of issues from our 2016 platform — our most progressive platform in our party’s history and a declaration of how we plan to move America forward. Democrats believe that cooperation is better than conflict, unity is better than division, empowerment is better than resentment, and bridges are better than walls.

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12 hours ago, SERWIN said:

Well, burning down cities is most certainly easier, and so many of the young generation have been constantly rewarded even for failure that they expect to win no matter what, rather than fail, learn from the mistakes, and rise again later. Instant gratification is what they expect...

This is true of the young generation of ALL colors!

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12 hours ago, El Nikko said:

No one is stopping you from giving all your money to the cause so what are you waiting for?

 

I want reparations for all of the Union soldiers who died in the Civil War to free the slaves...fair is fair!

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5 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Opinion:

There is a question: Why this is happening ? Now, but also in the past.

I would go from root causes : Level I , through Level II ending at Level III.

Level I:

Lack of political representation:

In US there is bi-party system dominated by 2 parties: and none of the parties has problems of black people on their top agenda.

In multi-party democracy black people could have party with 10% representation in Congress. The party would concentrate on specific needs of this minority and through participation in government coalition with larger party would realize black people agenda.

Level II

Lack of  political representation leads to unequal access to public goods including:

- unequal access to justice system,

- unequal access to healthcare,

- unequal access to domestic  security,

- unequal access to education,

Level III

- black people are Second category citizens, it is some kind of neo-slavery, prevented from access to public goods,

- Lack of access to public goods mainly education: less job opportunities, worse jobs or No jobs,

- shorter life espectancy,

- they cannot realize their life aspirations: a lot of frustration and a lot of anti- social behaviour like rampant crime.

 

Covid-19 special situation have adverse effects on all people, also Afro-Americans, among other things level of stress/frustration rises.

Add their basic frustration and this is unbearable.

Any spark causes big fire.

 

You really can’t be this ignorant...can you?

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Well then ... Reverse Rioting ploy ...

Reverse_Rioting.JPG.8927c6c89f24a6b8fdba4f3bd183b38f.JPG

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3 hours ago, Tom Kirkman said:

That was almost as funny as the gif where an apparent Antifa guy walked up and tried to grab a riot policeman's rifle, the cop instantly punched the idiot in the face. I wouldn't have stopped there though, the butt of that rifle would have followed immediately...So lucky he was that day....

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(edited)

But in all fairness, where are the riots when a white person is brutalized by police? We have an ongoing case in Houston where a black narcotics cop got a warrant under false pretenses and did one of those no knock warrants. Busted into a white couples home and killed them both, and no narcotics were ever recovered. And now, the DA is going back to all the cases where that cop was the ONLY testimony for obtaining a warrant and will probably let those cases go now. And where were the rioters when a 5 year old boy was thrown off the third floor in the mall in MN? A black guy that had been in and out of jail did that one. What about the mail carrier that was shot and killed, single mom with a teenage daughter was killed because the black guy wouldn't keep the pit bulls locked up, so the post office stopped their mail. The guy was freaking out looking for his "stimulus" check.

Getting a little tiresome listening to all this misdirected rage, for only a very few select instances of cop on black violence. if it had been a black cop and a white perp then NONE of this would be happening right now. What about the black cop in Cali that died the other night at the hands of the so called "peaceful protesters"?

I really believe this has been planned all along, and all they were waiting for was an incident to happen as a trigger. So many cities that all of a sudden had a mob of looters overnight, and so many of the apparent antifa guys there. And the sudden appearance of bricks just sitting on pallets in the street in so many cities? Cause that was a coincidence, right? It didn't look fishy that some bricks were delivered to a random location with no construction going on anywhere near where they were dropped off. Lots of questions here. I saw the threats of them coming out to the subs and starting their crap, but I would let them loot my magazines first, one bullet at a time....

https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/ucr.asp?table_in=2

So if African Americans are about 20% of the population in the US then why aren't the basic crime rates at about the same level? And anyone wonders why the cops are so jumpy and ready for violence when dealing with these numbers, one on one on the streets.... It reflects a basic lack of teaching integrity in the hoods here in the US.

Edited by SERWIN
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(edited)

6 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Normally I don't respond to anything you type, and the reasons are as valid now as they have been: 1. you simply either don't know what you are talking about and don't take the time to research whether or not you understand what you type about, or you simply don't care or wish to spread incorrect and mislleading comments.  Please don't tell us about our own form of government and pull "facts" out of your backside 2. to imply that we are not doing anything to better ourselves, our country, and the greater world.  That is just patently wrong.  To that end, I will respond to your comment above, with facts.  3. However, since I am giving you far more of my time and effort than you deserve, don't count on me to unblock you and read more of your lack of knowledge and incorrect accusations.

1. I usually know the topic I am talking about, and as you noticed I am capable of backing my statements by arguments. Sometimes I refrain from explaining the obvious, like Level 1 cause of riots. This is just political science (and common sense), also backed by first hand experience. Some data I present and rational opinions based on them could be very controversial for you but they exist whether you like it or not (like high probability of black male being criminal : 1/4 and the resulting racial profiling by policemen).

2. What is implied is often only in the head of the individual reader. I think your society is doing a lot to better yourselves, US is constantly changing. I just commented about the riots and refrained from general comments about US or anything.

3. I usually tolerate your ad hominem, derogatory and unnecessary remarks, that is why I answer. This is because I have children and you are old. Having children makes persons more tolerant for controversial behaviour or outbursts.  And I know that old people have more tendency to rant, but I respect them a lot. You also had and have very interesting life and contribute a lot from your experience so age is a great upside here.

About lack of political representation.

The fact that black people consitute 10% of Representatives and 3% of Senators is great and is a proof of positive changes.

But direct representation of a social or racial group through their own party present in Parliament, solely focused on their needs is something totally different. It brings the things to the whole new level. This is the upside of multi-party system. It is difficult to comperehend for Americans cause you know only bi-party political set up. The fact that bi-party system would be very difficult to change in US is another story.

I think lack of direct parliamentarian representation of African-Americans through their own party is a very important observation, and contributes to this discussion. But it does not give any hope for change, and thus is useless from practical point of view.

Edited by Marcin2
typo

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5 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:

I want reparations for all of the Union soldiers who died in the Civil War to free the slaves...fair is fair!

How about for the landowners that the battles were fought on, they deserve reparations as well. A lot of them lost everythiing

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17 hours ago, El Nikko said:

Yes I can, most of the rioters don't work, same as the drug deals and all the other scum.

There's plenty of black people who have worked hard and do well, some of which have just had their businesses destroyed by filthy layabouts.

Structural racism is in your mind and I'm guessing you aren't even black so you're using them to further your own political agenda...shame on you

Well, Shame on you!  The inequalities are staggering!  And all you do, is to patronise and lecture them to work harder!

https://www.cnn.com/2020/06/03/politics/black-white-us-financial-inequality/index.html

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8 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Are any level 1 , 2 or 3 or 4 ( Covid 19) causes that you do not agree with ?

Please write ANY argument if do not.

Douglas encouraged informed debate about the riots.

I am attempting to do as much, before any kind of critical discussion that leads to productivity...common bounds needs to be established. That avoids mistaken perception. 

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(edited)

Maybe we should also be looking at the Dutch, weren't they the ones that started selling slave to the colonies? And maybe the tribes that went out at night and raided the other local tribes and took hostages to sell to them as well? And maybe the ship builders that made the boats that brought them over. And maybe sue the trees that grew in order for the shipbuilders to be able to make ships. And the loggers that cut those said trees down. This is the stupidest thing I have ever heard of. If this is the case and they deserve reparations for that really bad thing that happened and actually ended over 150 years ago. In that case, what do the grandchildren of all the Germans owe the Jewish community then. I would say a lot more than that. And what about the families that had absolutely nothing to do with slavery? My family came over on the boat in 1903, went through Ellis Island the LEGAL way and never owned a slave in their lives? Am I responsible for helping pay reparations for something neither I nor my family had anything to do with? Maybe they should be directing this anger towards the Washington. Jefferson, and Bush families, and all the other families that lived in the colonies at the time. So if anyone could be held actually accountable..... Where does the responsibility start and end? Why should my tax dollars go towards paying a people for something we never had anything to do with. Get those reparations directly from the descendants of those slave owning families, leave us out of it.

And my family came over here from Wales to escape the oppression and coal mining, to become coal miners in Scranton PA. So realistically they were just slaves of another sort. Living in a company owned house and having to buy everything from the company store. Getting paid in company money that was useless anywhere else. Sounds a bit like slavery with a thin guise of freedom smeared over the top to make it sound palatable? I deserve some reparations from the coal mining industry in that case..... My great grandfather died from the black lung disease that was prevalent in coal miners back then, and when he died there was another slave to take his place like nothing happened. I WANT MY CHECK!!!

 Maybe the government could offer to pay for getting those slave descendant families moved back to where they came from, thereby setting right to the wrong that was done and getting those families back on the track they were on before they were abducted into slavery.

Sins of the fathers do not count in the U.S.A., you don't pay for wrongs done by your ancestors in the past...

#BESTPREZEVER!!!!

 

Edited by SERWIN
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(edited)

Guys, Please do understand rioters, these riots is one the few things that people ( not only African- Americans) in US can do to bring change.

The only really electable office in US where real outsider could be chosen is US President. So people chosen Donald Trump.

Maybe this is Opportunity to Bring more democracy to US.

The major instruments of democracy US lacks is:

- free ballot access,

- multi- party system with 4 to 6 parties representing each important social group: Afro-American party, Hispanic party, Progressive/Socialist Democrats, Centrist Democrats, Conservative/ Christian Republicans, Centrist Republicans.

- federal referendum

Apart from this riots are venting a lot of frustration out of people. It would be calm again After a few weeks or a few months.

Edited by Marcin2
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Maybe we should get a REAL expert to help us with this one, does anyone have Greta's number?

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38 minutes ago, SERWIN said:

Maybe we should get a REAL expert to help us with this one, does anyone have Greta's number?

Nobody's got Greta's number except her parents.  That begs the question:  Who will get to marry the fair Greta?  I'll bet they're lined up a dozen wind turbines away.

Maybe @Jan van Eck has some idea how this young lass may find her proper suiter?  Does he know how things may work out for the fair miss? 

Let's hope so, I'm waiting baited carbon free breath!

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2 hours ago, SERWIN said:

How about for the landowners that the battles were fought on, they deserve reparations as well. A lot of them lost everythiing

I want reparations money from the French for Napoleon using his cannon on my family Grand Estate House, and stealing all the cattle, chickens, and corn stocks.  Hey, my ancestors were civilians, not fair to go loot their place like that. 

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3 minutes ago, Jan van Eck said:

I want reparations money from the French for Napoleon using his cannon on my family Grand Estate House, and stealing all the cattle, chickens, and corn stocks.  Hey, my ancestors were civilians, not fair to go loot their place like that. 

One can righteously argue that all the woes of the colonies should be laid at England's feet.  I believe slavery was well established by the time our wayward boats landed on the Eastern Seaboard, whereupon we set about reversing the practice all together.  Okay, it took us until Lincoln, but it took a couple of generations to wash the British blood out of our veins.  Therefore @James Regan should pay.  I'm sure it can all be traced back to his clan, and those that his lot took up with.

In all honesty, I don't feel comfortable joking about slavery.  Reparations to me are a joke; slavery is not.  But there is no way in hell I would willingly take responsibility for what my uncles may or may not have done, let alone any dead ancestors.

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1 hour ago, Marcin2 said:

Guys, Please do understand rioters, these riots is one the few things that people ( not only African- Americans) in US can do to bring change.

The only really electable office in US where real outsider could be chosen is US President. So people chosen Donald Trump.

Maybe this is Opportunity to Bring more democracy to US.

The major instruments of democracy US lacks is:

- free ballot access,

- multi- party system with 4 to 6 parties representing each important social group: Afro-American party, Hispanic party, Progressive/Socialist Democrats, Centrist Democrats, Conservative/ Christian Republicans, Centrist Republicans.

- federal referendum

Apart from this riots are venting a lot of frustration out of people. It would be calm again After a few weeks or a few months.

We have free ballot access, just need an ID in most states

We have other parties ie: Libertarian,Greens, Communists, Independents also. None of them ever gain large traction. Pretty much the whole way through US history, it has been two parties, with Three on occasion(The Whig Party heyday)

We have  national referendums through Congress, they are called Constitutional Amendments, other wise, all referendums are a State level

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1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

One can righteously argue that all the woes of the colonies should be laid at England's feet.  I believe slavery was well established by the time our wayward boats landed on the Eastern Seaboard, whereupon we set about reversing the practice all together.  Okay, it took us until Lincoln, but it took a couple of generations to wash the British blood out of our veins.  Therefore @James Regan should pay.  I'm sure it can all be traced back to his clan, and those that his lot took up with.

In all honesty, I don't feel comfortable joking about slavery.  Reparations to me are a joke; slavery is not.  But there is no way in hell I would willingly take responsibility for what my uncles may or may not have done, let alone any dead ancestors.

Slavery has been commited by all races throughout time, you can thank us Brits for being the first country to try and put a stop to it by blockading West Africa 😉

It's just one of those things that the rich and powerful have always done to exploit other humans for their own gain, kids working down the coal mines in Britain for example is no different but we never had African slaves in the UK, it was forbidden.

Slavery still goes on today, especially in the Middle East and no doubt Africa.

Personally I find the entire subject utterly boring

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On 6/1/2020 at 11:54 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

What I find odd is the lack of debate, or even the will to debate, these issues. It seems that unless you are ‘black’, and often if you are, you are not considered to have ‘skin in the game’, or a valid opinion.

...

How can we, as a society, resolve these issues if one side refuses to listen to the other?

Why? The basic philosophy underpinning these agitators is that everything is defined by collective power struggles. Those who have the power, and those who don't but can take it. This is sometimes defined as the "haves" vs "the have nots" or the "makers" vs. "the takers" or "the 1%" vs "the 99%", "blacks" vs "whites" or "1st world" vs "3rd world". The underlying theory comes as an epiphenomenon of secular morality. Which trades the transcendant for the collective. If God cannot enforce moral rectitude, then it is up to "the strong." The strong then transforms into the collective, or the mob, because unities are stronger than singularities. 

Once you get to this point it's a slow shift to defining your collective as expressing moral good and your adversary as expressing moral evil. Once you decide this, then there can be no compromise, in the same way that you would not compromise with someone you feel is morally evil.

Not only that, but by a simple matter of a series of thought experiments, you can understand that under certain circumstances not only can you not compromise with those you deem morally evil, but you cannot even be held to moral account when dealing with moral evil, therefore any act, even those which temporarily suspend your own moral standards become justified (most definitely because you do not appeal to a transcendent authority).

The more histrionic your moral critique of the opposition becomes, the more morally justified you are, and the less likely you can or will compromise.

But this histrionic critique, the melodramatic exhortations, the pure insanity is actually a tactical advantage. Victory always goes to the most insane. Because that individual is willing to go further, do more, sacrifice more, in favor of their ideation. It is even more powerful in the context of collectivism, because a large component of the capacity for insanity is augmented by the anonymity of the numbers and the shared responsibility.

This is why mobs and rioters can often get away with very violent actions, destruction of property, and can always use the excuse of being caught up in the insanity of the moment.

While some individuals might get in trouble, or get arrested and even imprisoned, it will always be a small minority of the actual number of bad actors, so just by statistics it becomes a winning strategy.

 

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5 hours ago, SERWIN said:

Sins of the fathers do not count in the U.S.A., you don't pay for wrongs done by your ancestors in the past..

What you are describing generally is known as "corruption by blood."  [Sometimes: "corruption of blood."]   This is expressed in USA law as a Bill of Attainder, which is expressly forbidden in the US Constitution.  You will find the clause forbidding the practice in Article One, Section nine, paragraph three:    "No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law will be passed."

The Bill of Attainder prohibition clause ws inserted as a response to and reaction to our good friend King George [III] and his practice of invoking it against his political adverseraries in the Colonies.  He would declare anyone who disagreed with him an "Enemy of the State" and place a Bill against him.  Then the Estate, all the relatives, and the assets of the relatives and descendants would  be confiscated to the CVrown.  And whatever any descendant earned would also be confiscated to the Crown.  In effect, the bloodline was condemned to perpetual poverty - forever.   So, the colonists responded to all that (and a lot more) by taking up a call to arms.  

And for good measure, they abolished the titles of Lord, and King, and Sir, and all the rest. Article I, Section Nine, Clause 8:

No Title of Nobility shall be granted by the United States: And no Person holding any Office of Profit or Trust under them, shall, without the Consent of the Congress accept of any present, Emolument, Office, or Title, of any kind whatever, from any King, Prince, or foreign State.

This is known as the "Emoluments Clause," and is what various attempts to go hang Donald Trump and the Russians are all about.   Herewith endeth the Lesson. 

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13 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Normally I don't respond to anything you type, and the reasons are as valid now as they have been: you simply either don't know what you are talking about and don't take the time to research whether or not you understand what you type about, or you simply don't care or wish to spread incorrect and mislleading comments.

Congratulations on figuring this out, Dan.  This fellow "Marcin," in addition to his other flaws, also makes denigrating comments about others, including me, which is why I have him on "Block."  Cheers. 

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