US and Australia Sign SPR Lease Agreement

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

27 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

And there I thought you were one of his biggest cheerleaders!

Corrupt?  Morally or actually?

I think that Trump somehow is profiting from the presidency. I don't hold it against him; he migth even be less corrupt than other career politicians. I have no illusions about any politicians (incl our own). 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

21 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Are we concerned about China & Russia hegemony over the world?

I am very concerned. where we differ I guess is that I don't think Trumps strategy is the rigth one.

Personally, I do everything I can to buy locally and avoid chinese manufactured products (not sure about electronic component); I think fundamentally that is why the West is losing - greed / rampant consumerism. It is a bit like the war on drugs - why not do something about demand instead of supply... 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I think that Trump somehow is profiting from the presidency. I don't hold it against him; he migth even be less corrupt than other career politicians. I have no illusions about any politicians (incl our own). 

Yeah, there's a lot of this "I think somehow" going around.  I just don't get the logic involved with this kind of thinking though.  I mean, given that everyone agrees Trump is a Billionaire (but Dammit, how many Billions!?!), does anyone think he really needs, let's even be generous, $10-$100 Million, or 1%-10% of One Billion $$?

Especially while other, shall we say, left handed administrations have walked away with 500%-2,500% of their previous net worth?  I call foul on that argument, because I have a brain.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I am very concerned. where we differ I guess is that I don't think Trumps strategy is the rigth one.

Personally, I do everything I can to buy locally and avoid chinese manufactured products (not sure about electronic component); I think fundamentally that is why the West is losing - greed / rampant consumerism. It is a bit like the war on drugs - why not do something about demand instead of supply... 

The strategy that Trump has been and is engaging in cannot be pretty, IMHO.  There's simply too much to do, and too little time to do it in.  He has 8 years maximum, 4 years minimum, before the Left may be back in power handing over the reigns to the highest bidders, and pursuing the bankruptcy of the United States through $Trillion Global taxes, IP theft, joblessness of our citizens, and the list goes on.

I don't have to like Trump.  I've never met him nor would I presume he gives two shits about me, but I believe he brings a lot more to the table for the American "salt of the earth" people (F**k Hillary, Bernie, AOC and all the Leftist Mayors and Governors in the cities), by FAR, than any other person on the planet right now.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

7 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Yeah, there's a lot of this "I think somehow" going around.  I just don't get the logic involved with this kind of thinking though.  I mean, given that everyone agrees Trump is a Billionaire (but Dammit, how many Billions!?!), does anyone think he really needs, let's even be generous, $10-$100 Million, or 1%-10% of One Billion $$?

It's hard not get wet when standing in the rain. 

I am not gonna make a sticking point of it though. I am more interested in the substance. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 minute ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

It's hard not get wet when standing in the rain. 

I am not gonna make a sticking point of it though. I am more interested in the substance. 

Not when you've got your own umbrella, that you've earned, rather than just run for office and pillage.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

1 minute ago, Dan Warnick said:

The strategy that Trump has been and is engaging in cannot be pretty, IMHO

I don't care about apperance. I care about how effective it is. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

Just now, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

I don't care about apperance. I care about how effective it is. 

You don't make any sense.  Would you rather he had just engaged in the status quo?  Or that he hold tons of meetings and comes up with another of a long series of agreements with people that have no intention of upholding them?  Effectively kicking the can to the next generation?

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

Just now, Dan Warnick said:

You don't make any sense.  Would you rather he had just engaged in the status quo?  Or that he hold tons of meetings and comes up with another of a long series of agreements with people that have no intention of upholding them?  Effectively kicking the can to the next generation?

Sorry. I am trying to do too many things at the same time. 

To explain : I think the only way to contain China is to stand together. This is nothing to do with accepting status qou. Trump is dividing the West; he is not uniting it. To most Europeans his style appears to be "I win or we both loose"; there doesn't seem to be a compromise. Trump is not the only one who needs popular support. European governments does too. And just like American MSM is not representative of reality in the US nor is Breitbart europe articles representative about Europe. 

In business and life I have learned that a good deals must be good for both parties; maybe not equally good, but never the less good for both sides. We all need to compromise; AND THAT MEANS EUROPEANS TOO. but it also means trump. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,192]

22 minutes ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

In business and life I have learned that a good deals must be good for both parties; maybe not equally good, but never the less good for both sides. We all need to compromise; AND THAT MEANS EUROPEANS TOO. but it also means trump. 

The problem is the only solution is a return to GATT or something like it.  Where the members are ONLY democratic countries with free speech and everyone else is locked out.  You know whoever tables this motion will be called a racist and every vile name in the book as a large percentage of the nations locked out will not be White European...   Now combine the above with the fact that the people with all the $$$ are getting absolutely filthy rich off ~indentured labor, and well... Good Luck.  I agree, it needs to happen, but the west has been SO pampered for the last 50 years, I do not think they have the backbone to pull it off.  Likewise under this new "GATT" etc, the 2 biggest problems MUST be addressed, worlds currency, and the Worlds Navy.  USA does not want to pay for everyone's protection which means Europe and other democratic minded nations MUST pony up $$$ and manpower, and likewise other democratic nations do not want to be at the whim of selfish pandering jack asses in Washington DC printing $$$ devaluing their hard earned labor. 

While I think everyone knows what SHOULD happen, I do not believe it WILL happen until things get bad.  Bad enough to force the issue and frankly, outside of China deciding to colonize the world(it sort of is), I see no outside force that would push the democratically minded, free speech minded, rule of law nations together.  Said nations do not have the will to make the compromises currently.  Maybe in a couple decades.  This could have happened after the Cold war ended, but instead the industrialists, power players, and poiticianss got Utopian stupid, GREEDY, and enacted WTO instead of fixing GATT.  

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

Sorry. I am trying to do too many things at the same time. 

To explain : I think the only way to contain China is to stand together. This is nothing to do with accepting status qou. Trump is dividing the West; he is not uniting it. To most Europeans his style appears to be "I win or we both loose"; there doesn't seem to be a compromise. Trump is not the only one who needs popular support. European governments does too. And just like American MSM is not representative of reality in the US nor is Breitbart europe articles representative about Europe. 

In business and life I have learned that a good deals must be good for both parties; maybe not equally good, but never the less good for both sides. We all need to compromise; AND THAT MEANS EUROPEANS TOO. but it also means trump. 

We've had this discussion before.

What President Trump thinks is the right outcome is clear.  Any leader of substance in the EU can re-approach and concede some major points first.  Hat in hand, is what it's called.  He talked of serious issues; they laughed.  What did they expect?  Call it immature?  I call laughing at the President of the United States not only childish and clique-ish, I call it dangerous, more for them than Trump and the U.S.  

And, again, good for both parties is wonderful.  And, again, Trump proposed nothing more than bringing all sides back to equal and going from there.  That was rejected by the Europeans and he was laughed at in front of the entire planet, both friend and foe.  That they came to the realization late that he was right and it was worth doing with the U.S. cannot now be undone without a bit of kowtowing.  Instead: Silence from the EU.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

22 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

I just don't get the logic involved with this kind of thinking though.  I mean, given that everyone agrees Trump is a Billionaire (but Dammit, how many Billions!?!), does anyone think he really needs, let's even be generous, $10-$100 Million, or 1%-10% of One Billion $$?

So Bloomberg would have been the perfect candidate - he has more money than Trump so he certainly could not be bought? 

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

18 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

We've had this discussion before.

What President Trump thinks is the right outcome is clear.  Any leader of substance in the EU can re-approach and concede some major points first.  Hat in hand, is what it's called.  He talked of serious issues; they laughed.  What did they expect?  Call it immature?  

We have had this discussion before. And unfortunately we did not agree then, so I guess we are unlikely to agree now. 

Pls just ponder this : Sometimes leadership means being the bigger man to create results. Afterall, it should be the results that matter. To me personally, because I have young kids, I care about the longterm results. I understand that not everyone sees this the same way. 

I personally would never vote for or applaud a politician that puts his or her own ego ahead of delivering on promises. But hey, I am an old school, kind of guy... 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

We have had this discussion before. And unfortunately we did not agree then, so I guess we are unlikely to agree now. 

Pls just ponder this : Sometimes leadership means being the bigger man to create results. Afterall, it should be the results that matter. To me personally, because I have young kids, I care about the longterm results. I understand that not everyone sees this the same way. 

I personally would never vote for or applaud a politician that puts his or her own ego ahead of delivering on promises. But hey, I am an old school, kind of guy... 

Then talk to your own government leaders, and tell them to be the bigger man.

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

On 6/12/2020 at 2:01 PM, Dan Warnick said:

Then talk to your own government leaders, and tell them to be the bigger man.

Actually I do. I encourage and vote for politicians and policies that support a strong EU that can be a equal partner to the US. I do not encourage or vote for policies and / politicians that make us USA vassals. 

And p.s. - I try to walk the talk and buy local to the extent possible. 

Edited June 15, 2020 by Rasmus Jorgensen

[NickW + 2,714]

On 6/11/2020 at 11:31 AM, Dan Warnick said:

Are we concerned about China & Russia hegemony over the world?  Are our allies going to side with China & Russia if words come to blows?  Inquiring minds want to know!

I don't know. I 'd prefer to be in broad coalition of Democracies - USA, Canada, Oz, Japan, South korea etc. 

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

These are interesting articles and the comments from Aussies is even more interesting.

 

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-reaches-breakthrough-deal-to-buy-us-emergency-oil-supplies-20200307-p547t1.html#comments

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/22/australia-to-spend-94m-on-crude-oil-stockpile-but-will-store-the-fuel-in-the-us

 

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

And in a new move by the Aussie Gov.

 

Australia, finally, starts shoring up oil reserves

THE FEDERAL Morrison government is trying to do what it has not managed in recent years has – shore up oil security in Australia.

 

 

In a broad announcement today focused on "enhancing Australia's fuel security," the federal government announced a new long-term strategic review of the national refining industry. 

Under the new plans, energy minister Angus Taylor said he hoped to work with industry to store up to 15 million barrels of oil domestically, which equates to two weeks's of oil stocks. 

Currently Australia has between 30 days and 50 days' worth of oil in any given month. The International Energy Agency mandate is that developed nations have 90 days' supply. 

Taylor has put the call out for refiners and "industry players" to submit proposals on potential storage options. 

"The Government wants to assess how we can best partner with industry to increase our storage capacity to further enhance our onshore fuel security," minister Taylor said in a statement this morning. 

 

"By taking an industry-wide view, we will be able to make sure that we protect Australia's national sovereignty." 

Today the government also announced it would allow changes to the diesel standard, which governs the quality of diesel used in motor vehicles. 

By reducing the diesel standard by one point, the government can provide a market for an oversupply of aviation jet fuel. 

Both of Australia's major refiners, Viva Energy and Caltex, were sidelined by the COVID-19 pandemic which forced entire air fleets to be grounded, causing an oversupply in jet fuel. 

Caltex and Viva both shuttered refineries to prop up the price of fuel. However, with storage of jet fuel brimming, this will now be directed to the domestic car and truck market. 

It comes just a month after the minister signed an agreement with the US to house A$94 million worth of oil in the Strategic Petroleum Reserve. 

Under the deal, the US would store crude bought by Australia in its underground fuel reserve.

While it is unknown exactly how much oil the government was able to purchase for its $100-million-dollar price tag, the oil price at the time would suggest somewhere in the region of 6 million barrels. 

Fuel security has long been an issue in Australia, with former resources minister Matt Canavan suggesting oil production from the Great Australian Bight could solve the issue. More recently minister Taylor suggested crude could be produced from the Beetaloo and McArthur Basins for domestic supply. 

In April the Australian Competition Consumer Commission relaxed red tape, allowing refineries and petroleum producers to work hand in hand to ensure the downstream industry stayed afloat given the drop in the demand caused by COVID-19. 

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 6/15/2020 at 10:26 PM, NickW said:

I don't know. I 'd prefer to be in broad coalition of Democracies - USA, Canada, Oz, Japan, South korea etc. 

And we are, so that's why I was commenting in the way I did.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 6/16/2020 at 12:38 PM, ceo_energemsier said:

These are interesting articles and the comments from Aussies is even more interesting.

 

 

https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/australia-reaches-breakthrough-deal-to-buy-us-emergency-oil-supplies-20200307-p547t1.html#comments

 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/apr/22/australia-to-spend-94m-on-crude-oil-stockpile-but-will-store-the-fuel-in-the-us

 

Good articles, especially the first one, that pretty much confirm the conclusions we had reached on here in discussions.  Does Australia have no oil they can drill for and pump?  Offshore?  Did the greenies screw them so they can't do it?  What's Up down Under?

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

2 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Good articles, especially the first one, that pretty much confirm the conclusions we had reached on here in discussions.  Does Australia have no oil they can drill for and pump?  Offshore?  Did the greenies screw them so they can't do it?  What's Up down Under?

Australia does not have plenty of oil onshore and offshore, to some degree the meanie greenies have put a lot of obstacles to develop those, and to do more discoveries, specially using  hydraulic fracturing. https://www.worldometers.info/oil/australia-oil/

Crude production in Australia has been declining.

https://tradingeconomics.com/australia/crude-oil-production

 

https://www.ada.asn.au/assets/files/Defender/Summer2005-06/CrudeOilSelf-Sufficiency.pdf

The other problem is  companies in Australia have shuttered most (some of the biggest) refineries. So they have to import more refined products, so Australia would be better served by building refined products storage since the goal is to not refine anymore in country due to high costs and enviro whacko rhetoric. I highly doubt that any new large (150,000bpsd+ throughput capacity) refinery will be built there. LNG booming there , so they could use a lot of new GTL and other GTF techs to supplement liquid fuels demands.

Also a lot of CBM or as they call it CSG (Coal Seam Gas) and they can use CTL techs as well.

Edited June 17, 2020 by ceo_energemsier
correction

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 hour ago, ceo_energemsier said:

Australia does not have plenty of oil onshore and offshore

Does or does not?  Confused by this line.

[ceo_energemsier + 1,818]

1 minute ago, Dan Warnick said:

Does or does not?  Confused by this line.

Does not

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

8 minutes ago, ceo_energemsier said:

Does not

Thanks.  Read the links this time.  Is it thought they probably do have oil in abundance, just that they restrain exploration?  Or is that 1 billion+ number likely to reflect even the unknown and untapped?  The only place the other article touches on it is here: