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1 minute ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Ever met a man or woman is who disgruntled and well capitialized...

Not one without a mask, I haven't.

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image.png.ed99f017904417e6f5e6f0b14abcef71.png

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It's funny how most murderers and those who share their mentality try to apologize their heinous acts with similar shoddy constructions. 

Lie number one: "He deserved it". 

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3 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

I was referring to Canada.  We are so overwhelmingly white (86% white, 2% black) racial confrontations are less likely than in the US (73% white, 13% black).  It's like "herd immunity." When two people here commit crimes against each other they are most likely both white, no issues!

 

The ugliest thing I remember, in Canada, was the Quebecois Independence movement. It seems like they got a lot of what they wanted. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Québécois_(word)

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14 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

The ugliest thing I remember, in Canada, was the Quebecois Independence movement. It seems like they got a lot of what they wanted. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Québécois_(word)

The FLQ crisis is why Jan and I were mentioning the War Measures Act.  The Act was used to reduce civil liberties and deploy the military to control a domestic matter

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Front_de_libération_du_Québec

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/October_Crisis

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_Measures_Act

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emergencies_Act

Edited by Enthalpic
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(edited)

As usual, don't ask me the link for fact check. Below is the link show that Chinese Consular member joined the peaceful protest in front of white house, He was commanding Run Run Run.

videolink

 
 
 
And the screenshot from twitter:

Raw Translating  to English (from another language, I cannot read mandarin):

"Who shouted Mandarin at the scene last night? We all agreed to keep quiet, why shouted out and run? "

"You are right, shouted so loudly, now the video was spreading all over US".

"Military Officer Zhang was there, why there was no discipline"

 

https://twitter.com/yjpc06/status/1267687160791961601/photo/1

Image

Edited by SUZNV
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2 hours ago, SUZNV said:

As usual, don't ask me the link for fact check. Below is the link show that Chinese Consular member joined the peaceful protest in front of white house, He was commanding Run Run Run.

videolink

 
 
 
And the screenshot from twitter:

Raw Translating  to English (from another language, I cannot read mandarin):

"Who shouted Mandarin at the scene last night? We all agreed to keep quiet, why shouted out and run? "

"You are right, shouted so loudly, now the video was spreading all over US".

"Military Officer Zhang was there, why there was no discipline"

 

https://twitter.com/yjpc06/status/1267687160791961601/photo/1

Image

Watching the scene in that video, in front of the White House:  They are very lucky that Dan Warnick was not in charge of the security forces.  I would have water cannoned them and tear-gassed them to the other side of the city, with rubber bullets pelting their asses as they ran.

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On 6/7/2020 at 4:27 AM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Actually there are so many issues right now i had let a particular issue slip by the way side. Black america is unemployed. Now just who would not be disgrunteled by no job opportunities..and flipping burgers is not a job opportunity.

SInce the demise of the auto industry the black community has suffered greatly...all so Germany can import cars...and maybe a few others. Like it or not the black community is broke angry and has every right to be upset...Trump chastised the auto makers many times for going off shore...for the love of god GM took the bailout money and financed factories in China..again hurting the american worker and empowering China..

This world trade order needs to be smitten back to the dark ages...That alone is the cause of the violence...Ever met a man or woman is who disgruntled and well capitialized...

And yet, the only US president that tries to bring jobs back to America in order to alleviate such poverty gets attacked by... (Yes, you guessed it, the liberal elitist left that purport to actually care about the plight of African Americans)?

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Many people, from many industries, in many neighborhoods are unemployed. This by no means gives them the right to riot and destroy public and private property.

The vast majority of unemployed people do not resort to rioting.

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There are several different ways to look at the situation, from the geopolitical down to the personal. The curious thing from a geopolitical standpoint is something I like to call the Yin/Yang problem. The idea of the Yin/Yang symbol is that when Yin becomes too much, a shift or transformation into Yang happens, and vice versa. Sometimes this manifests as the saying "it has to get worse before it gets better."

So from a very high level perspective, for anyone who is anti-leftist, the George Floyd protests are a godsend. Every BLM protest has always directly served their opponents, because they constantly get riled up over people of questionable background. Also the extremity of their actions always serve to undermine their message. In the moment it always seems very bad for their opponents, but remember the yin/yang principle, the more feverish the mob actions, the faster it will alienate them, and the sooner the reaction and the more intense.

From a personal perspective, the only thing I dislike about BLM is its focus on the racial aspect of police corruption. People keep saying brutality, but it's really corruption. Just a month ago, these same police where arresting people for not wearing masks on buses, closing local businesses and arresting their owners for violating unconstitutional ordinances, harrassing and demeaning mothers for arranging play dates for their children cooped up at home, practicing civil asset forfeiture, performing 4 AM raids into american citizens homes, and then if they freaked out they were killed or charged with "resisting arrest" the most obscenely mind-f**kety kind of crime you can imagine.

The problem with police in the world, not just america, is that they do not "protect and serve" anyone but the so-called "elites". This is another reason why I dislike BLM, it is because ultimately they will be ineffective against the police, who rightly deserve precisely what they are getting and perhaps a bit more. To me, the police are just a publicly funded private army for the wealthy and elected. 

Now as to the point that George Floyd was a bad man, I honestly could care less. The nature of our laws is that people break them, and then are punished according to the law, at which point, from my perspective they are clean again. People make all kinds of mistakes, and may continue to make them, but at the very base, George Floyd was an American Citizen. That has to mean something. The moment we allow a person's rights to be removed for a reason, we open the door for the forces of the government to do it for *any* reason.

The power of the police to arrest a citizen is so that he may be conveyed to a magistrate and be judged and sentenced according to our laws. This is a process due to every American as an inalienable right. When a person dies in custody, for any reason, it is simply unacceptable. It is always 100% a failure of the police. They are armed and trained to subdue citizens and safely convey them to the place of their trial, if they aren't conveyed, they are by definition denied their inalienable rights. We are always so comfortable with accepting ridiculous excuses like "He was resisting arrest" or he was "fleeing the scene" or he was "trying to escape." 

Not a single one of these excuses is acceptable to me. This doesn't mean I expect police to just die, or that I expect that they won't shoot people. But each police shooting is a failure, it is always their fault, and if it is found that the officer had no other option or was reasonably in danger and defending himself or others, then I don't think they should be punished, or fired, or reprimanded. But it should never be seen as a good thing, or a "clean shoot". Killing people is never clean, but it is sometimes necessary. Making that decision, and being empowered to do so, is a heavy responsibility. 

The moment I see police taking that responsibility with the respect and conscience it demands is the moment I start considering them heroes, because that is truly heroic. Otherwise, you're just a partisan thug with a gun and we are back to roman gang politics. Sometimes you meet, or see, or hear of police acting in that way, and I would celebrate those men. But all of my life, I have seen very little of that, and much more of the George Floyd kind of behavior. I have many friends who have run afoul of the police in one way or another. Some by their own actions, and some by accident. I know people who were lied to, entrapped, fined, accosted. When I was a youth, as a skateborder I was harassed, searched, forcibly fingerprinted, made to obey unconstitutional curfews, threatened with arrest if I declined to submit to a search. 

The few times that I have ever needed or called on police, they literally refused to help. In one cause my property was stolen and they told me it was a civil matter, in another they didn't bother to collect evidence and just told me my stuff was gone. 

I have no use for police, and would much prefer the right to handle my own problems. Now that I am 37, I would only call the police if I absolutely had to, and even then I would have 0% faith in their assistance.

So to me, this is a bed of their own making, and they can happily get f**ked in it.

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(edited)

The only thing worse than a black criminal is a damned skateboarder!  Dang nabbit!

(That's sarcasm, just in case...)

Edited by Dan Warnick
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When I first saw this news story, I knew they'd lost the picture:

 

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(edited)

5 hours ago, Jason Martin said:

There are several different ways to look at the situation, from the geopolitical down to the personal. The curious thing from a geopolitical standpoint is something I like to call the Yin/Yang problem. The idea of the Yin/Yang symbol is that when Yin becomes too much, a shift or transformation into Yang happens, and vice versa. Sometimes this manifests as the saying "it has to get worse before it gets better."

So from a very high level perspective, for anyone who is anti-leftist, the George Floyd protests are a godsend. Every BLM protest has always directly served their opponents, because they constantly get riled up over people of questionable background. Also the extremity of their actions always serve to undermine their message. In the moment it always seems very bad for their opponents, but remember the yin/yang principle, the more feverish the mob actions, the faster it will alienate them, and the sooner the reaction and the more intense.

From a personal perspective, the only thing I dislike about BLM is its focus on the racial aspect of police corruption. People keep saying brutality, but it's really corruption. Just a month ago, these same police where arresting people for not wearing masks on buses, closing local businesses and arresting their owners for violating unconstitutional ordinances, harrassing and demeaning mothers for arranging play dates for their children cooped up at home, practicing civil asset forfeiture, performing 4 AM raids into american citizens homes, and then if they freaked out they were killed or charged with "resisting arrest" the most obscenely mind-f**kety kind of crime you can imagine.

The problem with police in the world, not just america, is that they do not "protect and serve" anyone but the so-called "elites". This is another reason why I dislike BLM, it is because ultimately they will be ineffective against the police, who rightly deserve precisely what they are getting and perhaps a bit more. To me, the police are just a publicly funded private army for the wealthy and elected. 

Now as to the point that George Floyd was a bad man, I honestly could care less. The nature of our laws is that people break them, and then are punished according to the law, at which point, from my perspective they are clean again. People make all kinds of mistakes, and may continue to make them, but at the very base, George Floyd was an American Citizen. That has to mean something. The moment we allow a person's rights to be removed for a reason, we open the door for the forces of the government to do it for *any* reason.

The power of the police to arrest a citizen is so that he may be conveyed to a magistrate and be judged and sentenced according to our laws. This is a process due to every American as an inalienable right. When a person dies in custody, for any reason, it is simply unacceptable. It is always 100% a failure of the police. They are armed and trained to subdue citizens and safely convey them to the place of their trial, if they aren't conveyed, they are by definition denied their inalienable rights. We are always so comfortable with accepting ridiculous excuses like "He was resisting arrest" or he was "fleeing the scene" or he was "trying to escape." 

Not a single one of these excuses is acceptable to me. This doesn't mean I expect police to just die, or that I expect that they won't shoot people. But each police shooting is a failure, it is always their fault, and if it is found that the officer had no other option or was reasonably in danger and defending himself or others, then I don't think they should be punished, or fired, or reprimanded. But it should never be seen as a good thing, or a "clean shoot". Killing people is never clean, but it is sometimes necessary. Making that decision, and being empowered to do so, is a heavy responsibility. 

The moment I see police taking that responsibility with the respect and conscience it demands is the moment I start considering them heroes, because that is truly heroic. Otherwise, you're just a partisan thug with a gun and we are back to roman gang politics. Sometimes you meet, or see, or hear of police acting in that way, and I would celebrate those men. But all of my life, I have seen very little of that, and much more of the George Floyd kind of behavior. I have many friends who have run afoul of the police in one way or another. Some by their own actions, and some by accident. I know people who were lied to, entrapped, fined, accosted. When I was a youth, as a skateborder I was harassed, searched, forcibly fingerprinted, made to obey unconstitutional curfews, threatened with arrest if I declined to submit to a search. 

The few times that I have ever needed or called on police, they literally refused to help. In one cause my property was stolen and they told me it was a civil matter, in another they didn't bother to collect evidence and just told me my stuff was gone. 

I have no use for police, and would much prefer the right to handle my own problems. Now that I am 37, I would only call the police if I absolutely had to, and even then I would have 0% faith in their assistance.

So to me, this is a bed of their own making, and they can happily get f**ked in it.

Couldn't agree more of shooting at someone is always a failure.

Each of police departments have their own culture came from their employer or head of police offices. If your department in a high crime area, then they tend to employ "brave" thugs and most of "good polices" may resign or going elsewhere. Their motivations are coming from climbing up the ladders, not heroism and later in their careers, they will employ people like them.

In small peaceful town where everyone know each other, it is much easier to have polices who their main goal is protecting their small community.  I live in the small town and the police didn't give me fine if I forgot to buy the sticker but tell my rent mate to let me know.

So the only way to have good polices is to have a good community who any criminal behaviors from police or thugs will not be tolerated, and thats why even I am not Christian, I like their community of going to church and learning to love or encourage to be a better person. In many communities,  the violence from thugs are tolerated while have very high expectation for the police. From  time to time, good people in these communities will be bullied by both the thugs and the bad polices and while it is much easier to stay away from the police if you know their perceptions and prejudices, it is much harder to stay away thugs.

And that's why Anti FA or BLM or defunding the police is not the solution to the corruption police problem because they ignore the other bad sides but will make the matter worse. Less police or police less violent, more criminals and then need more the bad polices to counter bad criminals and matter worse and worse. 

Edited by SUZNV
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(edited)

6 hours ago, Jason Martin said:

There are several different ways to look at the situation, from the geopolitical down to the personal. The curious thing from a geopolitical standpoint is something I like to call the Yin/Yang problem. The idea of the Yin/Yang symbol is that when Yin becomes too much, a shift or transformation into Yang happens, and vice versa. Sometimes this manifests as the saying "it has to get worse before it gets better."

So from a very high level perspective, for anyone who is anti-leftist, the George Floyd protests are a godsend. Every BLM protest has always directly served their opponents, because they constantly get riled up over people of questionable background. Also the extremity of their actions always serve to undermine their message. In the moment it always seems very bad for their opponents, but remember the yin/yang principle, the more feverish the mob actions, the faster it will alienate them, and the sooner the reaction and the more intense.

From a personal perspective, the only thing I dislike about BLM is its focus on the racial aspect of police corruption. People keep saying brutality, but it's really corruption. Just a month ago, these same police where arresting people for not wearing masks on buses, closing local businesses and arresting their owners for violating unconstitutional ordinances, harrassing and demeaning mothers for arranging play dates for their children cooped up at home, practicing civil asset forfeiture, performing 4 AM raids into american citizens homes, and then if they freaked out they were killed or charged with "resisting arrest" the most obscenely mind-f**kety kind of crime you can imagine.

The problem with police in the world, not just america, is that they do not "protect and serve" anyone but the so-called "elites". This is another reason why I dislike BLM, it is because ultimately they will be ineffective against the police, who rightly deserve precisely what they are getting and perhaps a bit more. To me, the police are just a publicly funded private army for the wealthy and elected. 

Now as to the point that George Floyd was a bad man, I honestly could care less. The nature of our laws is that people break them, and then are punished according to the law, at which point, from my perspective they are clean again. People make all kinds of mistakes, and may continue to make them, but at the very base, George Floyd was an American Citizen. That has to mean something. The moment we allow a person's rights to be removed for a reason, we open the door for the forces of the government to do it for *any* reason.

The power of the police to arrest a citizen is so that he may be conveyed to a magistrate and be judged and sentenced according to our laws. This is a process due to every American as an inalienable right. When a person dies in custody, for any reason, it is simply unacceptable. It is always 100% a failure of the police. They are armed and trained to subdue citizens and safely convey them to the place of their trial, if they aren't conveyed, they are by definition denied their inalienable rights. We are always so comfortable with accepting ridiculous excuses like "He was resisting arrest" or he was "fleeing the scene" or he was "trying to escape." 

Not a single one of these excuses is acceptable to me. This doesn't mean I expect police to just die, or that I expect that they won't shoot people. But each police shooting is a failure, it is always their fault, and if it is found that the officer had no other option or was reasonably in danger and defending himself or others, then I don't think they should be punished, or fired, or reprimanded. But it should never be seen as a good thing, or a "clean shoot". Killing people is never clean, but it is sometimes necessary. Making that decision, and being empowered to do so, is a heavy responsibility. 

The moment I see police taking that responsibility with the respect and conscience it demands is the moment I start considering them heroes, because that is truly heroic. Otherwise, you're just a partisan thug with a gun and we are back to roman gang politics. Sometimes you meet, or see, or hear of police acting in that way, and I would celebrate those men. But all of my life, I have seen very little of that, and much more of the George Floyd kind of behavior. I have many friends who have run afoul of the police in one way or another. Some by their own actions, and some by accident. I know people who were lied to, entrapped, fined, accosted. When I was a youth, as a skateborder I was harassed, searched, forcibly fingerprinted, made to obey unconstitutional curfews, threatened with arrest if I declined to submit to a search. 

The few times that I have ever needed or called on police, they literally refused to help. In one cause my property was stolen and they told me it was a civil matter, in another they didn't bother to collect evidence and just told me my stuff was gone. 

I have no use for police, and would much prefer the right to handle my own problems. Now that I am 37, I would only call the police if I absolutely had to, and even then I would have 0% faith in their assistance.

So to me, this is a bed of their own making, and they can happily get f**ked in it.

I am happy to call on the police but will first ready my pistol. Getting any help from police  takes awhile. I am a concealed carrier but I realize that shooting someone is just as likely to cost me more than getting beat up and if my family is with me, I need to protect them.  At 75 and on a blood thinner lesser self defense is not an option either. At least I could make a stand by being in jail though. Unfortunately my wife would insist on spending all of our finances on attorneys. 

I will definitely side with the police over real criminals including looters. I wrestled psychiatric patients for twenty years and never hurt one of them. I did get one black eye near the end of my career. I did have backup that would eventually show up. They were mostly old men too though!

Edited by ronwagn
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5 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

The only thing worse than a black criminal is a damned skateboarder!  Dang nabbit!

(That's sarcasm, just in case...)

We had a lot of skateboarders in Southern California. I always thought that they should be encouraged to skateboard because it gets them exercise and they rarely were criminals. 

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27 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

We had a lot of skateboarders in Southern California. I always thought that they should be encouraged to skateboard because it gets them exercise and they rarely were criminals. 

Indeed.  What got me was the people watching them from their homes that reported them and insisted on their removal (the piece I posted was just what I could find quickly.  The original article pointed out that they had been reported repeatedly.)  As if the skateboarders presented a risk to anyone but themselves!  Jealousy?  Envy?  General crankiness (Get off my lawn!)?

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1 minute ago, Dan Warnick said:

Indeed.  What got me was the people watching them from their homes that reported them and insisted on their removal (the piece I posted was just what I could find quickly.  The original article pointed out that they had been reported repeatedly.)  As if the skateboarders presented a risk to anyone but themselves!  Jealousy?  Envy?  General crankiness (Get off my lawn!)?

One of my semi-white privileges was ineffective. I had decided to use an alley to walk down a block that I often traveled. More interesting to me. Someone must have called the cops because I got stopped half a block from home, on the way back. I was one of the tannest kids in Inglewood in those days and had dark curly hair. The officer in charge asked me why I didn't call him sir. I wasn't brought up that way but told him I would be in the army soon and would be saying that a lot. 

Please read The Pedestrian short story. It is science fiction written by Ray Bradbury and I had just studied it in school How appropo!

http://achsblueenglish.weebly.com/uploads/7/6/7/3/7673592/the_pedestrian.pdf

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(edited)

Jason Martin,

Well stated, though I would argue the specifics.  I agree with gist of your sentiment.  What you have omitted is the responsibility of the citizen.  Every right is limited and comes with responsibility, this is not the driving is a privilege argument.   My father worked making signs for the county highway dept., in high school, he said the sheriff’s were like rapid dogs, not to be messed with.  Justified, all but most of the time, certainly not.  He explained that the recourse was an attorney and the courts, live to fight another day.
Every right is limited; can not yell fire, state gun laws, etc.  Right to life, well clearly they are those that would argue based on this to outlaw abortion or require the state to provide health insurance, but as a society we have decided differently limited.
Personal responsibility matters, not trying to justify what happened on that street, it seemingly looks unjustifiable.  Nor should it give cover for violence against the police or destruction of public/private property.

 waltz 

Mudhoney fan, past or present?


 

Edited by waltz
Added: happened to “on that street.”
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38 minutes ago, waltz said:

...
Every right is limited; can not yell fire, state gun laws, etc.  Right to life, well clearly they are those that would argue based on this to outlaw abortion or require the state to provide health insurance, but as a society we have decided differently limited.
...

I think that is the problem. You quote the whole "yelling fire in a theater", but maybe you don't know where that comes from? The case that was being considered was the right of Yiddish speaking Americans to write anti-WWI articles in Yiddish, in a paper that they distributed only to their communtiy. That argument was used to take away their free speech.

It seems it's so easy for us to accept "limitations" on our rights. No, I don't accept them any more than I am compelled to. If a right is inalienable, then it is inalienable. You can't lose it, and it certainly shouldn't have limits. I don't agree with limitations on free speech. I don't agree with limitations on any right in the constitutions. 

When it comes to rights, it's the government that should be limited.

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(edited)

Jason,

My phone ate my comment, so I will make this brief.

You are correct about my not knowing the history of the case, I am a trim carpenter not a student of legal history.  I will look it up.

You may not accept or wish to accept limitations on your rights/personal freedoms but as the law is currently constructed those decisions are left to the Supreme Court.

The Mudhoney question related to my own past skateboarding days. Maybe seven years difference is too much time.  I did lend my old board, an ex-teamrider to the kid across the street a couple of weeks ago because he was trying to ollie and it had the truck studs turned up.

waltz

Edited by waltz
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“I have no use for police, and would much prefer the right to handle my own problems. Now that I am 37, I would only call the police if I absolutely had to, and even then I would have 0% faith in their assistance.

So to me, this is a bed of their own making, and they can happily get f**ked in it.”

You seem to dislike racism, but do not mind painting all police/law endorcement with the same brush.

I think that if you really believe what you wrote, that you would have no problem defunding/abolishing the police departments in all major cities...is that correct?

Do you have any idea of the chaos, death and destruction that would cause? No police to blame....so then what do you do?

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“You can't lose it, and it certainly shouldn't have limits. I don't agree with limitations on free speech. I don't agree with limitations on any right in the constitutions.”

In general, I agree, but when a right is abused by certain entities, these entities must be held accountable.

The Second Amendment states that you have the right to keep and bear arms. The LAW states the a private citizen, in America cannot, unless in strictly defined situations, possess a fully automatic weapon (it has been illegal to own an assault rifle since the ‘30’s or around then). If you choose to illegally own a fully automatic weapon, expect a visit from the ATF and the FBI.?It will not go well.

By the same token, abusing the ‘freedom of the press’ by printing or saying whatever you want, then claiming that you are protecting your source is criminal. If you cannot somehow prove what you have written or broadcast was actually uttered or written by your target, this is slander or libel...those affected by your ‘news’ have no redress in court.

The media and press must have legal oversight to protect citizens.

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17 hours ago, waltz said:

Jason,

My phone ate my comment, so I will make this brief.

You are correct about my not knowing the history of the case, I am a trim carpenter not a student of legal history.  I will look it up.

You may not accept or wish to accept limitations on your rights/personal freedoms but as the law is currently constructed those decisions are left to the Supreme Court.

The Mudhoney question related to my own past skateboarding days. Maybe seven years difference is too much time.  I did lend my old board, an ex-teamrider to the kid across the street a couple of weeks ago because he was trying to ollie and it had the truck studs turned up.

waltz

I never studied law? I dropped out in the 6th grade, and took my GED. I have no education, and am glad of it. I didn't mention the case as an attempt to look down on you, but only to point out that one of the very instances you pointed out should actually be considered a great crime of the supreme court in suppressing rights.

I don't disagree that I am limited by government, I'm simply not going to pretend I like it or think it is good. 

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(edited)

On 6/5/2020 at 10:29 AM, SERWIN said:

So a guy with a violent criminal history gets killed during an arrest and every one is all up in arms about this. So what part of the filming of the supposed "murder" did we NOT get to see. Resisting arrest? Anyone have an entire video of the ACTUAL incident?

Kinda defeats the purpose of all the protests when the one you are protesting for has a wonderful relationship with the criminal justice system..... If he had been a perfectly innocent man I could understand, but now.... Makes you wonder what actually happened out there. Was he resisting? Who knows, maybe the body cam will shed some more light.

For starters, "the guy" was dragged OUT of police vehicle before police men started to kneel on the handcuffed "guy" placed in prone position.  That lethal procedure had extremely weak link to his resistance if any happened.  The only purpose I can imagine is to inflict pain in a way that would let them claim ignorance while having some "beneficially terrorizing" impact on the onlookers.  Regardless of the past criminal history of the victim, this was criminal behavior.  And since they caused death, even if "a healthier person would survive", this fully fits the description of homicide.  If you check, the definition of homicide makes no exception concerning the past of the deceased.  And this is NOT AN OVERSIGHT.  

Edited by Piotr Berman
typo
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