Is The Three Gorges Dam on the Brink of Collapse?

[specinho + 467]

On 7/23/2020 at 3:58 AM, ronwagn said:

Boy, you sure walked into that one. Tell it to the Uighurs, Tibetans, Christians, Falun Gong, etc. who are NOT tolerated at all by your Confucian Communist friends. In fact they are brutally persecuted, imprisoned, and some made into slaves. Organ harvesting is common among the prisoners reportedly. Now they are cutting off the hair of Uighurs and selling it globally! Shades of Nazi blankets. 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/u-border-control-seizes-13-194036105.html

Please bear with me.... the analysis below might give you perspectives you are asking for:

1. Uighurs

- Imagine, your great grandfather conquered and occupied a land as large as 100 000 square meters, 2000 years ago. It has been your inheritance ever since......... At the border of this land, an area of approximately 17 000 square meters, you have great harvest but you authorize the people to govern themselves. Recent years, a few people started to gather up trying to be independent.  If you are the owner, would you agree?

2. Tibetans

- Imagine, since 15th century, your great grandfather, the then emperor, anointed Dalai and acknowledged his political and spiritual significance in Tibet. Your great grandfather established administrative office in Tibet since then. The subsequent leaders would require your family approval to be acknowledged. Rebellious act in 1959 by Tibetans, hasten the status of authorized governing  in Tibet. What is your question regarding the authority of your family towards Tibet that you have gained since 15th century?

3. Christians

- Sun Yat Shen, the father of modern china, was a Christian. What are you saying?

4. Falun Gong

- You supported this spiritual group at the beginning as an healthy spiritual movement or exercise. Some fans then wrecked havoc in your neighbourhood, mass gathering near schools, offices etc, disrupting social order. They misinterpreted they have superior power with the Qi Gong they have been practising.   Some families broken up due to extremity of some fans. Suicidal cases were reported. What would you do, if that is your place that they are disrupting?

5. organ harvest

- it is rather personal choice...... imagine, you are one of the prisoners with death sentence on your neck. Your time has come to meet your Lord. You are healthy. You are approached to save lives with organs that you have. You are given choice to be cremated wholesomely, with sin that can't be burnt away or, save lives with the organs that you have to reduce the sin you have committed. What would you do?

6. Nazi blankets

- in the old days, Nazis used war, force, to enlarge the size of their country and to maintain uniformity. While we are thinking if Japan would invade China with military force again to fulfill its imperial dream, Japan and its alliances have invaded the world with good forces unconsciously. They use intelligence, dedication to good quality of workmanship, loyalty, high efficiency and etc to conquer markets of the world. Although they provide trainings and financial aids to countries in need, the disparity in standard makes most not up to the mark. They trust only their kind because no one can do better than them. We welcome this kind of invasion and control with open arms....... Impressive art of mastery............. However, the younger generations of Nazis are showing signs of arrogant and imbecility. If go unchecked, they might ruin the great and kind work of the elder generations. What else would you want to do when you have the world as your playing field?

We may choose the way we interpret an incidence, as long as it is funny and not hurting anyone or country........ e.g. the limit of sky within the vision from the bottom of a well or, from the top of the well................

 

Edited July 24, 2020 by specinho

[ronwagn + 6,290]

15 minutes ago, specinho said:

Please bear with me.... the analysis below might give you perspectives you are asking for:

1. Uighurs

- Imagine, your great grandfather conquered and occupied a land as large as 100 000 square meters, 2000 years ago. It has been your inheritance ever since......... At the border of this land, an area of approximately 17 000 square meters, you have great harvest but you authorize the people to govern themselves. Recent years, a few people started to gather up trying to be independent.  If you are the owner, would you agree?

2. Tibetans

- Imagine, since 15th century, your great grandfather, the then emperor, anointed Dalai and acknowledged his political and spiritual significance in Tibet. Your great grandfather established administrative office in Tibet since then. The subsequent leaders would require your family approval to be acknowledged. Rebellious act in 1959 by Tibetans, hasten the status of authorized governing  in Tibet. What is your question regarding the authority of your family towards Tibet that you have gained since 15th century?

3. Christians

- Sun Yat Shen, the father of modern china, was a Christian. What are you saying?

4. Falun Gong

- You supported this spiritual group at the beginning as an healthy spiritual movement or exercise. Some fans then wrecked havoc in your neighbourhood, mass gathering near schools, offices etc, disrupting social order. They misinterpreted they have superior power with the Qi Gong they have been practising.   Some families broken up due to extremity of some fans. Suicidal cases were reported. What would you do, if that is your place that they are disrupting?

5. organ harvest

- it is rather personal choice...... imagine, you are one of the prisoners with death sentence on your neck. Your time has come to meet your Lord. You are healthy. You are approached to save lives with organs that you have. You are given choice to be cremated wholesomely, with sin that can't be burnt away or, save lives with the organs that you have to reduce the sin you have committed. What would you do?

6. Nazi blankets

- in the old days, Nazis used war, force, to enlarge the size of their country and to maintain uniformity. While we are thinking if Japan would invade China with military force again to fulfill its imperial dream, Japan and its alliances have invaded the world with good forces unconsciously. They use intelligence, dedication to good quality of workmanship, loyalty, high efficiency and etc to conquer markets of the world. Although they provide trainings and financial aids to countries in need, the disparity in standard makes most not up to the mark. They trust only their kind because no one can do better than them. We welcome this kind of invasion and control with open arms....... Impressive art of mastery............. However, the younger generations of Nazis are showing signs of arrogant and imbecility. If go unchecked, they might ruin the great and kind work of the elder generations. What else would you want to do when you have the world as your playing field?

We may choose the way we interpret an incidence, as long as it is funny and not hurting anyone or country........ e.g. the limit of sky within the vision from the bottom of a well or, from the top of the well................

 

I cannot relate to your value system to much of an extent. China is exposed to the world now, for what it is and does. I do not blame the Chinese people in general but the CCP leadership and all the elites that get rich without helping the poor people and follow Xi and those like him. 

The world bears some responsibility by not trying to influence the Chinese to treat their own people better all along. Thanks to President Trump many people and countries see that China is a threat to the entire world and needs to be contained as we did the Soviet Union and now Russia and other countries. Then again, Biden says China is "no threat" so we will see who is elected. The Demoncrats can do a lot of wheeling and dealing with Xi and the Emperor for Life is waiting as he holds on to his position and purges more of his CCP rivals. He is holding his breath for our Presidential election as much as many of us are. 

See China Stories

 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wb2YoQGpSWTz32ljsiA_ey6FLVqc2Dpe7Fnpiqn9lBs/edit

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 7/22/2020 at 9:58 AM, ronwagn said:

Boy, you sure walked into that one. Tell it to the Uighurs, Tibetans, Christians, Falun Gong, etc. who are NOT tolerated at all by your Confucian Communist friends. In fact they are brutally persecuted, imprisoned, and some made into slaves. Organ harvesting is common among the prisoners reportedly. Now they are cutting off the hair of Uighurs and selling it globally! Shades of Nazi blankets. 

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/u-border-control-seizes-13-194036105.html

Good god, reading your link is making my stomach churn, what a nightmare. I like how the CCP only picks and chooses the high points of Chinese history and ignores the low.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Update 7/24 https://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2020/07/24/chinese-state-media-killer-flood-waters-like-naughty-kids-who-want-go-out-play/

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Update 7/25/20 Three Gorges Dam failure simulation of flooding spreads fear. 

and another dam blown up to ease flooding. 

https://news.yahoo.com/china-blows-dam-eastern-province-ease-flood-risk-080804446.html

Edited July 25, 2020 by ronwagn
added reference

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

Update 7/25/20 Three Gorges Dam failure simulation of flooding spreads fear. 

and another dam blown up to ease flooding. 

https://news.yahoo.com/china-blows-dam-eastern-province-ease-flood-risk-080804446.html

Hi Ron.  Kinda figured you'd pick up on those things.  I didn't watch the failure simulation video because I recognize it as fear mongering.  Suffice it to say, if the dam suffers a total failure, it will be a tragedy not seen before.

I did read the article you linked on the dam being blown up in Anhui Province, where the stated intent of that was to lower the Chu River level some 28" and that they were diverting that water to 2 storage ponds.  My comment on this, without checking out the dam myself, is that it must have been a relatively small dam, was probably quite old, and it simply could no longer hold back the water.  Better to blow it than have it breach in an uncontrolled manner.  China has more than 87,000 dams, and 100's if not 1,000s of dams that fit that description so it would not surprise me if it's an accurate statement (mine).

The other statement of interest in that article was "Over the weekend the Three Gorges Dam also opened three floodgates".

Sounds to me like the 3GD is operating well within capacity and is being managed in a planned manner.  In other words, by the book.

 

Edited July 25, 2020 by Dan Warnick

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

4 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Update 7/25/20 Three Gorges Dam failure simulation of flooding spreads fear. 

and another dam blown up to ease flooding. 

https://news.yahoo.com/china-blows-dam-eastern-province-ease-flood-risk-080804446.html

Actually had gotten this video in the original mandarin from my son and was trying to follow and translate for him live. Then I watched this version and felt pretty good about how I'd done. 

One thing I think they didn't model properly is something called Soliton Effect. I've done simulations on that for fiber optic communications and it was already a beast. However at those pinch points in the mountains you're bound to get solitons, which I recommend learning about. 

And finally This video is pretty funny, as the journalist makes fun of the Chinese propagandists running rampant. @Yoshiro Kamamura AKA Frank won't be as amused. But hey, he can earn a dollar or two arguing we need to believe the CCP and not our own lying eyes. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

20 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Good god, reading your link is making my stomach churn, what a nightmare. I like how the CCP only picks and chooses the high points of Chinese history and ignores the low.

Way over my head but sounds like something that might be harnessed for air or water travel to increase velocity or decrease fuel needs. Maybe, centuries from now, for space travel. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton

Edited July 26, 2020 by ronwagn
reference

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

52 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Way over my head but sounds like something that might be harnessed for air or water travel to increase velocity or decrease fuel needs. 

Ha, with you there, it’s going to take reading a lot of the wikipedia links many times over to wrap my brain around a Soliton wave. Off the top of my head I’m guessing the idea is some kind of wave-riding propulsion  that uses this or a serial production of these to power a spacecraft. You’d surf to infinity and beyond!  

Edited July 26, 2020 by Strangelovesurfing

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Ha, with you there, it’s going to take reading a lot of the wikipedia links many times over to wrap my brain around a Soliton wave. Off the top of my head I’m guessing the idea is some kind of wave-riding propulsion  that uses this or a serial production of these to power a spacecraft. You’d surf to infinity and beyond!  

When I throw stuff out it is in hopes that someone like you or Dan, or Jan, or Oro, or anybody can get me to understand a little more. I really don't have time to devote to a lot of interesting subjects. 

I did think of giant rogue waves that seem to appear at random. Possibly some relation to Soliton waves.

Edited July 26, 2020 by ronwagn

[Marcin2 + 725]

@ronwagn I think the problem is with the source: the epoch times.

They are devoutly anti Chinese and spread false information just to smear China. 

The first movie that purportedly shows floods in China was falsified , but badly falsified.

It comes from floods in Thailand .

There are many proofs: Thai number plates, cars with drivers seat on the right etc.

I think you just pollute this forum by posting such things. 
We are not hydro engineers. But I think No country can ill-construct 30 billion dam that is why I stopped posting at this thread.

Every year in China there are 1000s of floods large and small.

System of dams on Yangtze is just to prevent catastrophic that can destroy 15% of buildings in China in 3 days and cause 5 trillion USD in damages.

Damage of the magnitude of 10s of billions , 10,000s damaged homes and 100s killed people is part of the Chinese climate and generally natural conditions.

In primary school , in school geographic atlas there was the map of Yangtze river delta. I think it is in many atlases as it is global phenomenon the same as growing islands in Mississippi delta.

The map has shown how the Yangtze river changed its flow dozens of times, always creating catastrophic floods.

Remember Yangtze has The MOST catastrophic floods globally and accidenly I believe  the property in its basin is worth more than property in any river basin, also globally.

3 Gorges Dams paid for itself already 100 times in prevented property and human loss.

It is the single object on Earth that is the most valuable for human race because it prevented the most damage globally by an order of magnitude. Smearing it is just stupid. It is not pro China view it is just common sense.

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by Marcin2
Typo

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

3 hours ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Ha, with you there, it’s going to take reading a lot of the wikipedia links many times over to wrap my brain around a Soliton wave. Off the top of my head I’m guessing the idea is some kind of wave-riding propulsion  that uses this or a serial production of these to power a spacecraft. You’d surf to infinity and beyond!  

I knew a few of These authors back in the day, in fact for a time Jeff Hecht worked for me. Just for fun I might drop him a note next week. I've got his books around here somewhere, I'll see if I can find them. Solitons are fascinating, no doubt about it. 

[specinho + 467]

On 7/24/2020 at 1:02 PM, ronwagn said:

Thanks to President Trump many people and countries see that China is a threat to the entire world and needs to be contained as we did the Soviet Union and now Russia and other countries.

Let's put it this way............ if we go into business world, our aim is monetary gain..... We might have little consideration for anything else outside of our realm. Gradually, a culture of indifferent to the changes around us, culture of individualistic and selfishness, culture of ruining someone for something we don't even want because we can and because we want to, culture of shamelessness with blurr moral boundary and low characteristics/ indecency etc started to be deep rooted, especially in the cities through out the world. We nod our heads blindly over everything said by the media, the leaders etc because we do not care what they are saying, it's none of our business....... we have work to do...... as long as it doesn't affect our flow of money, we do not care.......

If there is something more that might be hibernating in many lives, not surfacing until may be after we have retired, it would be "what can we do to make lives better for ourselves and for others"...........

That being said, if we are tolerating and numbed by how the world is runned, how unpleasant things are happening etc, why don't we rise up to change it with what we can do, in the hope to make it better, not worse? If we do not like how the poor is bullied, how little the poor is helped, shall we expect to drown the authority or a few culprits with our saliva criticizing, or shall we punish them and shown them how it can be done? Shall we no longer like obedient leaders/managers who used to be merely followers without problem solving skill but merely maintaining status quo for us, where do we start with such a massive crowd of imbeciles?

On the other hand, we do need voices, we need people to speak out, all the time. But, how do we help with what we are saying, is a point to ponder...... Spitting out sufficient saliva and expecting the target will be covered or best drown is the same as pointing out mistake without correcting it. It will be ignored or forgotten, because the targets simply do not know how , or no?.......

Gang up, cahoot and let's loot........ like G.Buxx........

 

Edited July 26, 2020 by specinho

[ronwagn + 6,290]

15 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

@ronwagn I think the problem is with the source: the epoch times.

They are devoutly anti Chinese and spread false information just to smear China. 

The first movie that purportedly shows floods in China was falsified , but badly falsified.

It comes from floods in Thailand .

There are many proofs: Thai number plates, cars with drivers seat on the right etc.

I think you just pollute this forum by posting such things. 
We are not hydro engineers. But I think No country can ill-construct 30 billion dam that is why I stopped posting at this thread.

Every year in China there are 1000s of floods large and small.

System of dams on Yangtze is just to prevent catastrophic that can destroy 15% of buildings in China in 3 days and cause 5 trillion USD in damages.

Damage of the magnitude of 10s of billions , 10,000s damaged homes and 100s killed people is part of the Chinese climate and generally natural conditions.

In primary school , in school geographic atlas there was the map of Yangtze river delta. I think it is in many atlases as it is global phenomenon the same as growing islands in Mississippi delta.

The map has shown how the Yangtze river changed its flow dozens of times, always creating catastrophic floods.

Remember Yangtze has The MOST catastrophic floods globally and accidenly I believe  the property in its basin is worth more than property in any river basin, also globally.

3 Gorges Dams paid for itself already 100 times in prevented property and human loss.

It is the single object on Earth that is the most valuable for human race because it prevented the most damage globally by an order of magnitude. Smearing it is just stupid. It is not pro China view it is just common sense.

 

All I posted was IS the Three Gorges Dam on the Brink of Collapse? Asking a question is still OK here. My sources are my sources. You provide none but your own opinion. Within China there are many varying opinions about the Dam. The CCP only allows their opinions. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

On 7/25/2020 at 7:48 PM, ronwagn said:

Way over my head but sounds like something that might be harnessed for air or water travel to increase velocity or decrease fuel needs. Maybe, centuries from now, for space travel. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soliton

LOL

It was in Star trek NG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ground_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

LOL

It was in Star trek NG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ground_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

A distortion during the wave transportation experiment damages the Enterprise and the test ship explodes. The wave exponentially increases in power and speed, set on a collision course with a colony at Lemma II.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

8 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

LOL

It was in Star trek NG.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Ground_(Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation)

Thanks for that, you made my day!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Update on flooding in China https://www.theepochtimes.com/two-chinese-provinces-sacrificed-to-save-wuhan-and-three-gorges-dam_3438135.html

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

7 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Update on flooding in China https://www.theepochtimes.com/two-chinese-provinces-sacrificed-to-save-wuhan-and-three-gorges-dam_3438135.html

Yes, it is bad.  But let us think back to the time before the dam was built, and the havoc the untamed Yangtze used to wreak without it.  The latest figures I have read put evacuations at just under 2 million people and, relatively speaking, the death toll is still quite low compared to pre-Three Gorges Dam years.  The flooding in China is tragic, no doubt about it, but I don't think it helps to have media spouting that the 3GD is contributing to the flooding instead of helping.  Without the dam, the flooding and human losses would likely be much much worse.

Proponents of the project argue that China needs the project's electricity for modernization. With dangerous rapids drowned under the reservoir, ocean-going ships will be able to sail all the way to Chongking, nearly 2,000 mi (3,200 km) inland from the ocean. The water stored in the reservoir also will make possible a long-discussed plan to build aqueducts to carry water from southern China to the dry plains around Beijing. Furthermore, annual flooding on the river caused 300,000 deaths in the twentieth century. In 1998, the worst flood in history drove 56 million people from their homes. Planners expect the dam to reduce these floods and eliminate untold misery for the 300 million people who live in the Yangtze River Valley.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

8 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

Yes, it is bad.  But let us think back to the time before the dam was built, and the havoc the untamed Yangtze used to wreak without it.  The latest figures I have read put evacuations at just under 2 million people and, relatively speaking, the death toll is still quite low compared to pre-Three Gorges Dam years.  The flooding in China is tragic, no doubt about it, but I don't think it helps to have media spouting that the 3GD is contributing to the flooding instead of helping.  Without the dam, the flooding and human losses would likely be much much worse.

Proponents of the project argue that China needs the project's electricity for modernization. With dangerous rapids drowned under the reservoir, ocean-going ships will be able to sail all the way to Chongking, nearly 2,000 mi (3,200 km) inland from the ocean. The water stored in the reservoir also will make possible a long-discussed plan to build aqueducts to carry water from southern China to the dry plains around Beijing. Furthermore, annual flooding on the river caused 300,000 deaths in the twentieth century. In 1998, the worst flood in history drove 56 million people from their homes. Planners expect the dam to reduce these floods and eliminate untold misery for the 300 million people who live in the Yangtze River Valley.

This video disagrees with some of that. There used to be buffer lakes along the river's passage that helped mitigate the flooding. Those are gone now, so 100% of the burden is on the dam to protect down stream. 

 

[Michael Coupe 0]

On 6/25/2020 at 6:54 PM, Dan Warnick said:

Hogwash! 

I have stood at the base of that dam, on both sides of it.  I have been inside the power turbine tunnels.  I have walked in the overflow channels, driven/walked in the ship elevator, log and debris release, sludge abatement areas, and on top of it.  I did all of that during its construction and my host was the CEO of an Chinese/Italian/German/American/British consortium that had over 700 expat families living and working on site for the duration of its construction.  The designs were the result of many great minds from around the world coming together.

All of the "threats" that are being trumpeted now are exactly what the dam was designed and built to not only withstand, but far exceed.  It is not lost on me that mixed among the rhetoric about the dangers of the flooding right now are the mentions and reminders of the "great ecological damage"  and "human displacement" the dam was responsible for when it was constructed.  I have to ask myself why these complaints would be raised again during a time of political stress both within the country and around the world.

Hogwash!  That dam is as safe or safer than any dam in the modern world.

 

On 6/25/2020 at 6:54 PM, Dan Warnick said:

Hogwash! 

I have stood at the base of that dam, on both sides of it.  I have been inside the power turbine tunnels.  I have walked in the overflow channels, driven/walked in the ship elevator, log and debris release, sludge abatement areas, and on top of it.  I did all of that during its construction and my host was the CEO of an Chinese/Italian/German/American/British consortium that had over 700 expat families living and working on site for the duration of its construction.  The designs were the result of many great minds from around the world coming together.

All of the "threats" that are being trumpeted now are exactly what the dam was designed and built to not only withstand, but far exceed.  It is not lost on me that mixed among the rhetoric about the dangers of the flooding right now are the mentions and reminders of the "great ecological damage"  and "human displacement" the dam was responsible for when it was constructed.  I have to ask myself why these complaints would be raised again during a time of political stress both within the country and around the world.

Hogwash!  That dam is as safe or safer than any dam in the modern world.

i would say that anything man made is only as good as the people that amde it..nothing is certain, so wouldnt the best view be one of over caution, because you cannot guarantee me or anyone that it can never happen ..hogwash i think not... better to be safe than sorry is a better kind of angle in my view .... the fact you have been there give you a bias view ... thats how i see your comment but please dont take ofence , its a discussion here

 

[Qanoil + 116]

Significant data, facts, history and background information in this big picture overview of the Three Gorges Dam.  Some good research in this assessment.  Sample of one of the diagrams is below.  Take note of Shanghai on the far right side.

𝐖𝐡𝐞𝐧 𝐓𝐡𝐞 𝐋𝐞𝐯𝐞𝐞 (𝐨𝐫 𝐃𝐚𝐦) 𝐁𝐫𝐞𝐚𝐤𝐬

 

@ronwagn  @0R0 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

It's not going to collapse, even if it did they would rebuild quickly.

I bet some of you want it to fail so you can point and laugh, but remember extreme weather events leading to flooding is not unique to China (New Orleans, New York, etc.).