Trump and his accomplices prepare huge cover up of the scale of the COVID 19 outbreak in the USA

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

First, it began with carefully disseminated misinformation on Twitter, Facebook, etc - a tried method that won Trump the elections. Doubts about the official numbers, pseudoscientific babble, all the usual. 

Next, Center for Disease Control is disconnected from the information flow. 

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/cdc-covid-19-data/

https://www.livescience.com/hhs-will-bypass-cdc-covid19-data-collection.html

Live data are now sent only to the ministry of health which is fully under Trump's control. 

Dr Fauci and other professionals that cannot be coerced, bribed or intimidated are forbidden from giving interviews and speak publicly in television. 

It really seems that 2020 will be for the USA what Mao's "Big Leap" was for China in 1961 - 1964. Like back then, huge number of people will die, and the administration will pretend that nothing is wrong, and the dying will be mostly done by the lower social classes, deliverymen, workers, policemen, healthcare staff, people who cannot work from safety of a home or distance themselves.

What's scary is that it is happening in a country like the USA in the 21st century. 

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Mr. Kamamura, your point is obvious. However, in this highly politicized pandemic, look at a breakdown of the numbers.

Everyone would likely say that Governor Cuomo handled this thing straight-on. And yet the mortality rate as figured by mortality over total tested positive was 7.9% and Mass. had one of 7.4%. 

Contrast to this the rather cowboy style of Texas (1.2%), the beachcomber attitude of Florida and California (1.4, 2%, respectively) and the raging-our-of-control pandemic in the south and Sunbelt states has drastically lowered the overall nationwide mortality to 3.9%. 

I'm no apologist for the president but it is particularly obvious that this virus behaves a bit differently in the hot weather than it did in the cold wet weather of NYC and Mass. Has it mutated? I don't know; the phylogenists do but they're not saying much these days. Point is, this virus behaves differently in different regions and/or seasons. I don't believe for a moment that in NYC they were able to track down every contact and talk them into staying sequestered. The virus more or less "burned out" in NYC, despite Gov. Cuomo sending still infectious patients back to live in care facilities with the healthy uninfected. A one-size-fits-all wouldn't have worked in a place as vast and variegated as the United States of America, pure and simple. 

They can talk all they want to about how a President Joe Biden could have done this better, but that's crazy talk. If this country had been completely shut down for much longer, whole states would have gone bankrupt and municipalities would have defaulted on 4% bonds. Despite looking messy and awful and as if no one was running the engine car, the mortality rate of the virus has gone way down. There's just so long one can invoke Farr's Law, because, after all, people have to eat. Lots of people are very angry at the administration because at least that's a face to put on a disaster that came to the world from Wuhan.

I'm not arguing with you, merely pointing out that so far nobody has done about anything to combat this virus except tell us to tell us to wear a mask (after first telling us not to) and to wash our hands. My first-grade teacher could have done that. We are, as with every novel virus, at the mercy of genetics and a vaccine. Truth be told, if you're elderly and contract this year's mutation of influenza, a virus that has been around for centuries, you're at high risk of dying. Vaccine, vaccine, vaccine . . . that's all that has made a difference. And you don't need a president to get that going, or even Dr. Fauci. there are 137 companies working on vaccines and one or more will nail it. 

Fine to take sides; everyone has. But to put the blame on anyone is not very practical, not when you look at the numbers.  

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

14 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Everyone would likely say that Governor Cuomo handled this thing straight-on. And yet the mortality rate as figured by mortality over total tested positive was 7.9% and Mass. had one of 7.4%. 

Contrast to this the rather cowboy style of Texas (1.2%), the beachcomber attitude of Florida and California (1.4, 2%, respectively) and the raging-our-of-control pandemic in the south and Sunbelt states has drastically lowered the overall nationwide mortality to 3.9%. 

I'm no apologist for the president but it is particularly obvious that this virus behaves a bit differently in the hot weather than it did in the cold wet weather of NYC and Mass. Has it mutated? I don't know; the phylogenists do but they're not saying much these days. Point is, this virus behaves differently in different regions and/or seasons. I don't believe for a moment that in NYC they were able to track down every contact and talk them into staying sequestered. The virus more or less "burned out" in NYC, despite Gov. Cuomo sending still infectious patients back to live in care facilities with the healthy uninfected. A one-size-fits-all wouldn't have worked in a place as vast and variegated as the United States of America, pure and simple. 

Understanding of this virus has also gotten better. Even something as simple as using effective anti-inflammatories has dramatically lowered mortality rates. Scary part is reports of the long term effects this is having on multiple parts of the body. People who assume a vaccine will save us are not realizing there has never been an effective long term corona virus vaccine. This will be a world wide problem for years to come. The US having a hard time will spur innovation in corona virus treatments that other countries will benefit from. I personally don't believe a vaccine is going to cut it, we'll need some kind of drug cocktails to deal with this in the years to come. Hello neo-HIV.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Dr Fauci and other professionals that cannot be coerced, bribed or intimidated are forbidden from giving interviews and speak publicly in television. 

So, right after you said they can't talk to the press, you add two links where, wait for it, they talk to the freaking press! Do you really believe we're stupid enough to fall for your schtic? Or conversely, since you keep falling for blatantly false information, what does that say about your intelligence? 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

54 minutes ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

People who assume a vaccine will save us are not realizing there has never been an effective long term corona virus vaccine. This will be a world wide problem for years to come.

True, that, and for the life of me I still can't fathom a vaccine directed against messenger-RNA that has become incorporated into the cellular machinery of the host. I hope I am wrong and these m-RNA people are really smart. 

59 minutes ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

Understanding of this virus has also gotten better. Even something as simple as using effective anti-inflammatories has dramatically lowered mortality rates.

You're right and also partly wrong, with all due respect. For decades a bad virus has caused ARDS (Adult Respiratory Distress Syndrome) and for decades high dose steroids have been about the only thing that did anything to help. So without having a clue as to what was causing a cytokine storm (which isn't entirely a new concept), we treated such a patient with steroids. And I imagine those doctors in NYC did that as well. But you're entirely right: doctors have gotten more adept at treating this . . . yet have they gotten so adept that the death toll came down from 7.9% to 1.2% . . . I doubt it. 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

1 minute ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

we treated such a patient with steroids. And I imagine those doctors in NYC did that as well. But you're entirely right: doctors have gotten more adept at treating this . . . yet have they gotten so adept that the death toll came down from 7.9% to 1.2% . . . I doubt

I'm assuming by this statement you are a medical pro? If so, do you know if anyone has tried C60+Oil to lower inflammation in corona patients?

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Don't know. 

And I'm out of it by now so anything I say is potentially out of date.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

So, right after you said they can't talk to the press, you add two links where, wait for it, they talk to the freaking press! Do you really believe we're stupid enough to fall for your schtic? Or conversely, since you keep falling for blatantly false information, what does that say about your intelligence? 

Dillusional Psychosis that's there story and there sticking to it.

[0R0 + 6,251]

3 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Dr Fauci and other professionals that cannot be coerced, bribed or intimidated are forbidden from giving interviews and speak publicly in television. 

You mean that they can't be outbid. Gilead Pfizer Moderna etc. have put up lots of money to "donate"(kickback) to the NIH. FDA gets to line its pockets with review fees for the multiple phases of trials. 

If CV19 were to die out in - say - a couple of weeks, then the bureaucrats have billions of dollars to lose and the drug companies have $10s of billions on top of what they already promised the politicos bureaucrats and "expert" consultants. Yet, if we open up the economy and let people congregate and transmit the virus, the whole thing would be over and that would be then end of it. NYC metro has herd immunity. Probably the entire N Eastern seaboard cities.

The current wave in the South is far less deadly than the one in the North East

Infection rates in AZ FL CA TX are as high or nearly as high on the official rates as they were at the height of the pandemic in NYC and NJ. When you consider that the age of those infected in this wave is 20 years  younger then the numbers are understating actual infections because they are 3-9 times less likely to experience symptoms that would get them tested.

So infection rates would still be some 20-50 X confirmed cases, so as many as 25000 people per million are being infected in AZ and AL now, which would get them to 50% infected within 20 days, but AZ appears to be topping off already, as herd immunity is kicking in. Contrary to epidemiologic models, the actual population is not uniform, there is a 34% T cell immunity inherited from exposure to prior coronaviruses (at least among a  sample of Berliners. Also, from Germany, of those exposed to CV19 patients at close quarters, 75% of those that had not had antibodies did have T cell reactions to CV19. So an infection rate measured by antibodies at 30-50% (NYC and Boston) would be equivalent to roughly 45-75% or more that would be immune.  

The deaths have not risen in the same proportion to the number of cases in the South as in the NE, even allowing the 3 wk supposed avg delay from diagnosis to death. (In reality it is 7-8 days avg.) So the disease is not killing people at the same rate either due to vit D levels being better in the sun, better medical treatment, or lower initial viral loads in a much more disperse population. So long as hospitals are not overwhelmed, it is a good idea to continue letting the virus transmission go on among the younger and far less susceptible population. Thus gaining herd immunity. Since much of it would be T cell immunity, it would be for a long time up to lifelong.

What is going on with the Southern wave is not worrisome, at least not yet. The panic around these figures is misguided if not outright feigned.

[0R0 + 6,251]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

4 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Dr Fauci and other professionals that cannot be coerced, bribed or intimidated are forbidden from giving interviews and speak publicly in television. 

So, right after you said they can't talk to the press, you add two links where, wait for it, they talk to the freaking press! Do you really believe we're stupid enough to fall for your schtic? Or conversely, since you keep falling for blatantly false information, what does that say about your intelligence? 

You do understand that logical fallacies do not concern the leftist. Had he not been refractory to logic and fact he would not be a leftist. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

7 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Mr. Kamamura, your point is obvious. However, in this highly politicized pandemic, look at a breakdown of the numbers.

Everyone would likely say that Governor Cuomo handled this thing straight-on. And yet the mortality rate as figured by mortality over total tested positive was 7.9% and Mass. had one of 7.4%. 

Contrast to this the rather cowboy style of Texas (1.2%), the beachcomber attitude of Florida and California (1.4, 2%, respectively) and the raging-our-of-control pandemic in the south and Sunbelt states has drastically lowered the overall nationwide mortality to 3.9%. 

I'm no apologist for the president but it is particularly obvious that this virus behaves a bit differently in the hot weather than it did in the cold wet weather of NYC and Mass. Has it mutated? I don't know; the phylogenists do but they're not saying much these days. Point is, this virus behaves differently in different regions and/or seasons. I don't believe for a moment that in NYC they were able to track down every contact and talk them into staying sequestered. The virus more or less "burned out" in NYC, despite Gov. Cuomo sending still infectious patients back to live in care facilities with the healthy uninfected. A one-size-fits-all wouldn't have worked in a place as vast and variegated as the United States of America, pure and simple. 

They can talk all they want to about how a President Joe Biden could have done this better, but that's crazy talk. If this country had been completely shut down for much longer, whole states would have gone bankrupt and municipalities would have defaulted on 4% bonds. Despite looking messy and awful and as if no one was running the engine car, the mortality rate of the virus has gone way down. There's just so long one can invoke Farr's Law, because, after all, people have to eat. Lots of people are very angry at the administration because at least that's a face to put on a disaster that came to the world from Wuhan.

I'm not arguing with you, merely pointing out that so far nobody has done about anything to combat this virus except tell us to tell us to wear a mask (after first telling us not to) and to wash our hands. My first-grade teacher could have done that. We are, as with every novel virus, at the mercy of genetics and a vaccine. Truth be told, if you're elderly and contract this year's mutation of influenza, a virus that has been around for centuries, you're at high risk of dying. Vaccine, vaccine, vaccine . . . that's all that has made a difference. And you don't need a president to get that going, or even Dr. Fauci. there are 137 companies working on vaccines and one or more will nail it. 

Fine to take sides; everyone has. But to put the blame on anyone is not very practical, not when you look at the numbers.  

You are an apologist. The US is doing the worst job handling this.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Edited July 17, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

4 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

You are an apologist. The US is doing the worst job handling this.

What should it be doing?

Please don't say more testing. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

12 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

What should it be doing?

Please don't say more testing. 

One voice, one plan; not this self-contradictory, always-changing crap.

Nobody knows what to do or who to believe.

Full lockdown, or going for herd from the start would have been better.  US did half of each which is nothing.

 

Edited July 17, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

One voice, one plan

Oh, why didn't you say you wanted a dictatorship? 

Too bad Canada's health care system doesn't do cranial rectumectomies, you sorely need one. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Here are the facts. There is no strong relationship between somebody getting tested and an actual illnesses. It is going away after it runs its course. Testing without symptoms is a waste of time, money and effort. Save the tests for those with symptoms. They need a quick reply.

All about COVID 19 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MXY8T0j7k0oUBsHW4BfjJM__DRIyzqrDf_FSlV4hHpw/edit

Edited July 18, 2020 by ronwagn
addition

[Matto777 + 7]

The virus isn't a problem anymore. It's more personal now, more of a family event. The OldSchool days of the virus are gone. I remember back when France had 1. This virus is apart of life. The world is moving on. I got sick early. Been in a hotel to get the latest strain. I got a decent immunity to it's sub strains. Evolution favourited the lest harmful strain. The sooner you get sick the better. Everyone should be acting like the world is getting ready to run again. The virus is just a barrier to entry. People are slowly passing through the barrier. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

Elsewhere there was a comment regarding CV 19 and Trump's failures. I think the issue was that the working theory for the Trump camp has been and remains that the virus is highly contagious and not very lethal, thus efforts at containment are going to fail by the time tests would show up to identify and quantify infections. The virus had become endemic already when the first patient was identified. The shutdowns were never going to be effective in the US in extinguishing the virus as the state tracking system was useless without the failed CDC test. He and the pandemic team started providing briefings after the viral infection peak was visible on the Kinsa Temp. charts and shutdown guidelines were given. He had hoped to get credit for the decline in infections that would and did follow. Didn't work. He only managed to obtain criticisms. So when things seemed ready for reopening, knowing full well that reopening in Apr-May vs. reopening later would see a resurgence in infections regardless of when the economy reopened, he disappeared from CV19 briefings attempting to distance himself from the consequences of "his" governors opening aggressively. 

He stopped the appearances in order to not be there when the second wave breaks out. Then at its height he shows up on his own just as the 2nd wave is peaking and ready to decline on its own due to T cell and antibody immunity prevailing in the broadly infected population of younger people. He is upfront and on his own on stage in the CV19 briefings in order to claim credit when infections and deaths fall over the next 2-3 weeks. The US infections chart has crossed its saddle point 2 weeks ago and is now topping as AZ FL TX CA GA are all topping out last week and now. Deaths will soon follow downwards after having risen very moderately as the confirmed cases climbed.

I am not enthused about this gambit, but perhaps this one will see him associated in the popular eye with the decline in the new cases stat and deaths.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

10 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Elsewhere there was a comment regarding CV 19 and Trump's failures. I think the issue was that the working theory for the Trump camp has been and remains that the virus is highly contagious and not very lethal, thus efforts at containment are going to fail by the time tests would show up to identify and quantify infections. The virus had become endemic already when the first patient was identified. The shutdowns were never going to be effective in the US in extinguishing the virus as the state tracking system was useless without the failed CDC test. He and the pandemic team started providing briefings after the viral infection peak was visible on the Kinsa Temp. charts and shutdown guidelines were given. He had hoped to get credit for the decline in infections that would and did follow. Didn't work. He only managed to obtain criticisms. So when things seemed ready for reopening, knowing full well that reopening in Apr-May vs. reopening later would see a resurgence in infections regardless of when the economy reopened, he disappeared from CV19 briefings attempting to distance himself from the consequences of "his" governors opening aggressively. 

He stopped the appearances in order to not be there when the second wave breaks out. Then at its height he shows up on his own just as the 2nd wave is peaking and ready to decline on its own due to T cell and antibody immunity prevailing in the broadly infected population of younger people. He is upfront and on his own on stage in the CV19 briefings in order to claim credit when infections and deaths fall over the next 2-3 weeks. The US infections chart has crossed its saddle point 2 weeks ago and is now topping as AZ FL TX CA GA are all topping out last week and now. Deaths will soon follow downwards after having risen very moderately as the confirmed cases climbed.

I am not enthused about this gambit, but perhaps this one will see him associated in the popular eye with the decline in the new cases stat and deaths.

Your reasoning is quite sound and not filled with bias that de evolves the conversation. Given the history of what we do know what could have any one person or governing body do in such a situation...Covid was here and well entrenched into society, this i can tell you the US cannot shut off its economic cycle and survive. Overly simplified the US runs on a 90 day turn cycle...money in in..money out..beyond that cycle is a complete collapse would occur.

I firmly believe when Trump stood on the stage and announced...What do we have to Lose  He knew the depth of this issue he had been briefed. One might ask what could have happened if HCQ was dispensed from the beginning...again Trump had been briefed it was the only way out...Has it been made public how many died due to ventilator malpractice..that is another story.

To that point the US is about to begin to bottom out or perhaps better said the ship is about to land and it will be one jarring landing.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

39 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Elsewhere there was a comment regarding CV 19 and Trump's failures. I think the issue was that the working theory for the Trump camp has been and remains that the virus is highly contagious and not very lethal, thus efforts at containment are going to fail by the time tests would show up to identify and quantify infections. The virus had become endemic already when the first patient was identified. The shutdowns were never going to be effective in the US in extinguishing the virus as the state tracking system was useless without the failed CDC test. He and the pandemic team started providing briefings after the viral infection peak was visible on the Kinsa Temp. charts and shutdown guidelines were given. He had hoped to get credit for the decline in infections that would and did follow. Didn't work. He only managed to obtain criticisms. So when things seemed ready for reopening, knowing full well that reopening in Apr-May vs. reopening later would see a resurgence in infections regardless of when the economy reopened, he disappeared from CV19 briefings attempting to distance himself from the consequences of "his" governors opening aggressively. 

He stopped the appearances in order to not be there when the second wave breaks out. Then at its height he shows up on his own just as the 2nd wave is peaking and ready to decline on its own due to T cell and antibody immunity prevailing in the broadly infected population of younger people. He is upfront and on his own on stage in the CV19 briefings in order to claim credit when infections and deaths fall over the next 2-3 weeks. The US infections chart has crossed its saddle point 2 weeks ago and is now topping as AZ FL TX CA GA are all topping out last week and now. Deaths will soon follow downwards after having risen very moderately as the confirmed cases climbed.

I am not enthused about this gambit, but perhaps this one will see him associated in the popular eye with the decline in the new cases stat and deaths.

There was temporary decline in daily new cases but essentially no drop in active cases.

No chance this gets significantly better in just 2-3 weeks.  Zero.  I will wager you money. 

This is not the second wave, this is still the first. Yes, there was a tiny local maximum but the US is clearly still on the first wave.

 

Edited July 23, 2020 by Enthalpic

[0R0 + 6,251]

15 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Your reasoning is quite sound and not filled with bias that de evolves the conversation. Given the history of what we do know what could have any one person or governing body do in such a situation...Covid was here and well entrenched into society, this i can tell you the US cannot shut off its economic cycle and survive. Overly simplified the US runs on a 90 day turn cycle...money in in..money out..beyond that cycle is a complete collapse would occur.

I firmly believe when Trump stood on the stage and announced...What do we have to Lose  He knew the depth of this issue he had been briefed. One might ask what could have happened if HCQ was dispensed from the beginning...again Trump had been briefed it was the only way out...Has it been made public how many died due to ventilator malpractice..that is another story.

To that point the US is about to begin to bottom out or perhaps better said the ship is about to land and it will be one jarring landing.

If they continue with the stimulus programs and jam the reopening down the Governor's throats, then the cycle can continue working. There is about a $2 Tril hole the Feds need to fill in on the fiscal side for the next 2 months. The Fed has little space left that it didn't already fill. But it can further expand support for banks to maintain credit lines and lending to the part of the economy that is working and to the consumer.

The situation in the US was pretty much impossible to control from the start. The Wuhan travelers were being tracked but they and their contacts could not be tested because of the CDC and FDA policy, which amounts to sabotage. Their fancy failed test didn't help either. WHO and Fauci went on record to downplay masks, which could have reduced the death toll if not really affected the spread that much, as the initial viral load is what is affected by the surgical and fabric masks, their effect on droplet dissemination is not a substantial effect, as we saw in the Southern transmission episode that tracks the heat waves driving people into air conditioned enclosed spaces, where aerosol transmission prevails (something the WHO continues to deny despite mountains of research showing that clearly being thrown at them). They just can't move till China tells them to, and it won't because then it would be another lie that they expounded - and a critical  one.

 

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

The rules to call someone recovered is 14 days no symptoms, 10 days after release from hospital, or two negative tests at least 24 hours apart.

This definition, combined with almost two weeks of very few cases, let Canada drop its number of active cases shockingly fast. Most things are now reopened and we are seeing a drastic rebound in infections.  I wish this would go away faster but the data says it is sticking around, we need a effective vaccine. 

We are not better off than were back in March.... it's just starting over.  Maybe we can hope winter cold and hibernating at home helps. Haha.

 

 

[0R0 + 6,251]

10 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

There was temporary decline in daily new cases but essentially no drop in active cases.

No chance this gets significantly better in just 2-3 weeks.  Zero.  I will wager you money. 

This is not the second wave, this is still the first. Yes, there was a tiny local maximum but the US is clearly still on the first wave.

 

I think this is a clear topping pattern.. The shape may be extended by the countermeasures slowing down the buildup of herd immunity but it is fair to say that we are at or near the overall peak and past it in the key Southern states where the airconditioning transmission peak has occurred or is ongoing.

The rest of the South will top out a week or two later but will have a smaller impact since it is in less populous states than these.

The AZ and FL deaths are already flattening.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

On 7/18/2020 at 3:44 PM, ronwagn said:

Here are the facts. There is no strong relationship between somebody getting tested and an actual illnesses. It is going away after it runs its course. Testing without symptoms is a waste of time, money and effort. Save the tests for those with symptoms. They need a quick reply.

All about COVID 19 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MXY8T0j7k0oUBsHW4BfjJM__DRIyzqrDf_FSlV4hHpw/edit

Remember there is a lag between infection, diagnosis, severe illness, and death.  A spike in cases won't directly align with deaths, watch for them in a week or so.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Enthalpic