ronwagn + 6,290 July 25, 2020 On 7/23/2020 at 12:30 AM, Dan Clemmensen said: Here in Commifornia, the best-selling sedan is the Tesla Model 3. That's best selling across all classes of sedan. This is possible, I guess, because we have a surplus of pixie dust? No, this works because most driving is commuting, and the Model 3 has enough range to make the round trip to work and back, so we can charge at home. We may eventually need to increase the electrical power into the neighborhoods, but we actually have a fairly large reserve because the lines were originally engineered before the dramatic improvements in efficiency of appliances and (especially) lighting. We are also requiring residential solar on all new homes, which further reduces the need for bigger neighborhood power lines, especially for crazies who purchase home batteries. (Drink the Elon Musk koolaide, get the car, the solar roof, and the batteries.) We also have lots of public charging stations. SAE1772 level 2 stations are nearly ubiquitous, with power up to about 15 KW. The number of superchargers is also increasing. We have a bunch that operate at 50 KW, and the newer ones operate at up to 250 KW. The problem is when you actually have a high percentage of electric cars, SUV's and pickups on the road. I don't know what that percentage is but I would guess less than 1%. It will be fun to watch. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 July 25, 2020 On 7/23/2020 at 11:26 AM, Jay McKinsey said: No, I'm saying that an extremely large portion of the population has access to charging at home. Enough people to drive EV adoption forward immediately. All we have to do is solve the problem for apartment and other residential units and the solution is actually very simple. The utilities are begging to be allowed to install the chargers and takeover for the gasoline industry. We have held them back because of monopoly concerns. Who is we? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus1354 + 178 July 25, 2020 On 7/22/2020 at 6:44 PM, Jay McKinsey said: And we have the Tesla factory which is producing the best selling car in the state. So that is a pretty big step forward on the number of autos on the road side of it. For the time being. Your patron Saint Elon; just announced a massive new facility too be built in Texas. (Ohh the Horror of it all! St. Elon is gonna build in the 'Evil place' where Oil is King. sorry Cotton, you lost the mantel a while back) He's doin this because Commiefornia is pissin him off too no end. Don't count on the Bay Area facility stayin open any longer than required to get TX up an runnin... Why do you think he's in a bull rush down in Boca Chica?? LA has screwed him too. An before you say anything about SpaceX 'crawlin back' too the LA Gumps, he has a 6 mo out on the deal an he's gonna use it just like last time. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 July 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, ronwagn said: Who is we? We is California. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 July 25, 2020 On 7/23/2020 at 11:26 AM, Jay McKinsey said: No, I'm saying that an extremely large portion of the population has access to charging at home. Enough people to drive EV adoption forward immediately. All we have to do is solve the problem for apartment and other residential units and the solution is actually very simple. The utilities are begging to be allowed to install the chargers and takeover for the gasoline industry. We have held them back because of monopoly concerns. WHO is holding them back? The same people that are holding back home natural gas car filling? The federal government funded Eaton and Texas A&M with a few million dollars to solve the simple task of bringing the priced down. I have not been able to find out what the results were. Top secret I guess. The goal was $500. You should support that. I am OK with your chargers. Both groups should work together. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said: We is California. WHO in California? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus1354 + 178 July 25, 2020 On 7/22/2020 at 6:33 PM, Jay McKinsey said: Well here in the endless suburbs of "Commiefornia " we are in luck because every house has a charger. Quite a good start on the infrastructure side I would say. As usual you ignore the real issue. Driving that isn't 'about town'... Drive down I-5 from Sacramento to LA and you have a stop or two. Who wants to sit for 45 mins too 90 mins waiting to charge up when it takes about 4 min to fill a tank... Also, as I said; the tech may very well come along that changes this. It's just not available right now. Thus the infrastructure comment. I'm Not an Anti EV person. I'm Anti Stupidity for the sake of scoring 'points' with the witless wonders in the Eco crowd... 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 July 25, 2020 4 minutes ago, Prometheus1354 said: For the time being. Your patron Saint Elon; just announced a massive new facility too be built in Texas. (Ohh the Horror of it all! St. Elon is gonna build in the 'Evil place' where Oil is King. sorry Cotton, you lost the mantel a while back) He's doin this because Commiefornia is pissin him off too no end. Don't count on the Bay Area facility stayin open any longer than required to get TX up an runnin... Why do you think he's in a bull rush down in Boca Chica?? LA has screwed him too. An before you say anything about SpaceX 'crawlin back' too the LA Gumps, he has a 6 mo out on the deal an he's gonna use it just like last time. Putting the factory in Texas is very strategic and oil won't be king for much longer with that massive EV factory. They are expanding Fremont factory not shutting it down. SpaceX is in Boca Chica because it allows them to launch from a point in the US that is close to the equator as it gets and the rockets can go over the gulf. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Prometheus1354 + 178 July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said: Putting the factory in Texas is very strategic and oil won't be king for much longer with that massive EV factory. They are expanding Fremont factory not shutting it down. SpaceX is in Boca Chica because it allows them to launch from a point in the US that is close to the equator as it gets and the rockets can go over the gulf. I'm fully aware of Why he chose Boca Chica. I worked in the Aerospace field. All the launch sites are on the coast as the Gov't won't permit launches over populated areas. We'll see on Fremont. $$$$ Says Not... Oil will be just fine for the foreseeable... As I've said many times, things do change. Well except for the minds of the Left. They are cemented in 'My way or the HWY'... Hope there's a chargin station when you run low on thought errrr juice... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 July 25, 2020 2 minutes ago, Prometheus1354 said: As usual you ignore the real issue. Driving that isn't 'about town'... Drive down I-5 from Sacramento to LA and you have a stop or two. Who wants to sit for 45 mins too 90 mins waiting to charge up when it takes about 4 min to fill a tank... Also, as I said; the tech may very well come along that changes this. It's just not available right now. Thus the infrastructure comment. I'm Not an Anti EV person. I'm Anti Stupidity for the sake of scoring 'points' with the witless wonders in the Eco crowd... The vast, vast majority of driven miles is within 100 miles of your house. Driving is very much about town. And most people stop for 45 mins on their way to LA to eat, get gas, etc. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said: The vast, vast majority of driven miles is within 100 miles of your house. Driving is very much about town. And most people stop for 45 mins on their way to LA to eat, get gas, etc. Very true but you will need to have the charger next to your restaurant. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 July 25, 2020 5 minutes ago, ronwagn said: Very true but you will need to have the charger next to your restaurant. That gives restaurants a big incentive to install chargers. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, Jay McKinsey said: That gives restaurants a big incentive to install chargers. Who pays for the multiple chargers and installs them? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,489 July 25, 2020 1 minute ago, ronwagn said: Who pays for the multiple chargers and installs them? The company selling the electricity pays for the chargers and installation. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Dan Clemmensen + 1,011 July 25, 2020 3 hours ago, ronwagn said: Very true but you will need to have the charger next to your restaurant. For high traffic routes like the I-5, Tesla installs superchargers. These stations have chargers that operate at up to 250 KW (most Teslas cannot charge that fast, so you are limited to 100 KW). You get about 4 miles per KWh, so in 30 minutes you would get about 200 miles of range. There are restaurants associated with the superchargers. Here is an example: https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/supercharger/kettlemancitysupercharger If I really cared, I would simply rent an ICE. That's what I do when my car of choice is not available, e.g. when I leave it home and take an airplane to the other coast. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0R0 + 6,251 July 25, 2020 Johnson, like many others in EU and E Asia, are trying to set up for a world without stable oil supply nor export volumes to pay for that oil. These same geographies are facing a demographic time bomb that is going to decimate their export industries and local demand, as well as their export markets. That is why an economically hilarious investment plan into renewables and EVs is taking hold despite them having an enormous short term carbon footprint. OECD + China ex US are all in the same boat and need to minimize oil imports they will soon not be able to afford because their exports will drop like a rock, thus no funding. I wish them all luck. But that does not make for a successful policy. Will just make things worse. Pulling forward economic contraction to start before it had to. 1 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ward Smith + 6,615 July 25, 2020 5 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: We is California. Would this be the same California where your number one utility is bankrupt and you have rolling blackouts and brown outs every year? And things will improve when millions of new people suddenly draw a few extra gigawatts from an already overloaded system? Oh that's right, cannabis is legal there now, fixes everything… 1 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,042 ML July 25, 2020 20 hours ago, Dan Clemmensen said: EVs are getting cheaper and better at a fairly fast pace. The biggest part of the cost is the battery, and the lithium-iron-phosphate (LFP) batteries that are now coming into production are a good bit cheaper than the lithium-nickel-cobalt batteries now in general use. Total cost of ownership for EVs are already lower than for ICEs in most circumstances, and the straight sales price will likely cross over by 2024. Dan - I don't really disagree with this, or at least not enough to take issue.. the total cost point you make may well be valid. Unfortunately the problem still remains that consumers regard EVs as less versatile and more of a refueling concern than ICE and that doesn't seem to be changing. As EVs have no natural advantage they have to be propped up in some way. Activists then argue that if EV sales are propped up long enough then the electrics will somehow gain an advantage. There is now considerable experience of the rights and wrongs of government interference in markets and, sadly, that natural advantage never seems to develop of its own accord. The support is always required. Anyway, time to draw blood elsewhere.. leave it with you.. 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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