So how should Germany dispose of their expiring subsidized bird shredders? Dump the environmental waste in Africa?

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

A big shout out to Oil Price staff for allowing custom tags for threads : )

Also, I kinda changed the title of the article for this thread, to better reflect what the article discusses.  

This is what happens when government subsidies for "renewable" energy expire ... a big environmental mess:

Germany’s Wind Energy Mess: As Subsidies Expire, Thousands Of Turbines To Shut Down…Environmental Nightmare!

"As older turbines see subsidies expire, thousands are expected to be taken offline due to lack of profitability. Green nightmare: Wind park operators eye shipping thousands of tons of wind turbine litter to third world countries – and leaving their concrete rubbish in the ground.

... So what happens to the old turbines that will get taken offline?

Windpark owners hope to send their scrapped wind turbine clunkers to third world buyers, Africa for example."
 

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

But of course. Africa -- the great dump of the industrialized world. Funny thing, renewable energy -- I remember some recently praising Germany's greatly increasing share of wind and solar power in the overall energy mix. 

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

2 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

But of course. Africa -- the great dump of the industrialized world. Funny thing, renewable energy -- I remember some recently praising Germany's greatly increasing share of wind and solar power in the overall energy mix. 

You probably don't want to get me wound up too much about the great "renewable energy" cash cow scams.

I'm certainly not against saving the environment for future generations.  I grew up on a farm and know how important it is to preserve the planet for generations down the road.

But much of the "renewable energy" cottage industry seems to me to be an avenue for "take the money and run" short term business of cashing in on well meaning but clueless government subsidies.  Leaving a big mess in its wake.

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

Please do get as wound up as you like. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff the renewable energy advocates omit. it's become something of an ideology and I am naturally suspicious of ideology as someone who grew up in the Soviet bloc.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

3 hours ago, Marina Schwarz said:

Please do get as wound up as you like. I'm sure there is a lot of stuff the renewable energy advocates omit. it's become something of an ideology and I am naturally suspicious of ideology as someone who grew up in the Soviet bloc.

/ edit  ... um, prolly not a good idea to click on my links to YouTube vids if you are easily offended.  Just sayin.  As a mod, just giving a friendly heads up : )

Um, in my more adventurous days of youth, I could get pretty wound up.  Was in a few Midwest hardcore punk rock bands.  Some of the bands I was in opened for Minor Threat and Circle Jerks.  One of my roommates in University days was the drummer for Sonic Youth.  I was the lead singer for some hardcore punk bands - I'm not exactly shy.

No worries, these days I've become totally sedate, with grey hair and old age; now I'm just a harmless old git, long in the tooth, and easily ignored : )

A few decades ago I found out that yelling from on top of a soap box is nowhere near as effective as coaxing others to possibly examine their sacred cows with gentle prodding, and by carefully asking polite questions - rather than preaching at the top of my lungs.

Besides, I'm way too old these days for stage diving : )   Heck, I'd probably break a hip now.

These days, friendly words are my pursuasion of choice.

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

Does it work, the friendly way? Shouting is ineffective, definitely. But does it work on people so convinced they are right, with the help of social media and the ready availability of like-minded individuals?

You can say in a calm measured voice that wind turbines do not pop out of the air on their own, that there is mining involved, trucking, processing and whatnot but will the green folk listen and agree, however grudgingly?

PS Sonic Youth is still one of my favorite bands. What music was made in the 90s. Eh...

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

12 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

PS Sonic Youth is still one of my favorite bands. What music was made in the 90s. Eh...

Steve Shelley is a great drummer; the YouTube vid doesn't do him justice.  I played with him for a while in the band Strangefruit, whose stuff is not available these days, I think.  Pretty sure he was also on the Fear of Drowning poetry & music album, which is also unavailable these days, our loose collaboration only made 500 sets of vinyl pressings. Another one of my frequent roommates in University was David Livingstone, who still plays guitar in various Detroit alternative / punk bands; he was in bands such as God Bullies.  I still adore his guitar riffs.  Mike Hard, the lead singer, used to scold me for causing trouble at live shows.

Youth ... ah well.

[Guillaume Albasini + 851]

I think that the transition to renewables is a good thing but we have to adress some problems and be aware that the clean techs are not always as clean as they claim to be.

If you can read french ( I don't know if the book will be translated in english) the book of the french journalist Guillaume Pitron is worth reading. In "La Guerre des métaux rares : la face cachée de la transition énergetique et numerique" (The rare metals war : the hidden face of the energy and digital transition), Pitron explore the hidden costs and environmental footprint of the extraction of rare metals needed for the new technologies  of the energy and digital transition.

https://www.europeanscientist.com/en/environment/societies-becoming-dependent-rare-earth-metals/

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

9 minutes ago, Guillaume Albasini said:

I think that the transition to renewables is a good thing but we have to adress some problems and be aware that the clean techs are not always as clean as they claim to be.

Oh, no question about this. The problem is when someone takes a good idea--renewables, equal start for all--and build an ideology around it. Best and surest way to ruin a good idea.

Can't read French, unfortunately.

@Tom KirkmanI count Swans, Sonic Youth, the Sex Pistols and a host of other great--and very irreverent--bands among my formative music influences. Easily offended? Not me.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

2 hours ago, Marina Schwarz said:

@Tom Kirkman I count Swans, Sonic Youth, the Sex Pistols and a host of other great--and very irreverent--bands among my formative music influences. Easily offended? Not me.

Great musical background : )  I also adore Mozart's piano concertos (I had a Liberal Arts education - philosophy, sociology, psychology, art, music, literature, etc.)

My degree is in Sociology.  Kinda bizarre how I ended up in international oil & gas, and becoming a "diplomat" with oil companies and EPCs in assorted countries.

These days, I am fascinated by international oil & gas + the international politics intertwined with O&G.

Oil & Gas has allowed me to travel the world, meet interesting people and leaders, and get a more global perspective on life in general. 

Life sucks if you want it to suck.  These days, with the grey hair that I've earned, I choose to have a more positive outlook.  Feed the right wolf.  If you choose to feed the negative wolf, your life will surely be negative.  Some people seem to make it their life's work to be offended by differences of opinion from their own views.  And so I just laugh at the intolerance.

Life can be dirty.  Sometimes it's good to roll around and enjoy the mud, and get out and experience new things, new ideas, different viewpoints, different cultures.  To get out and live life with exuberance, before we return to the dirt we came from.

Just my opinion.

Uh, ... we now return to our regularly scheduled program, after that wordy commercial advertisement ...

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

If only more people could be as mature the world would be a much better place. Oh, well. (I love Bach's Brandenburg concertos. They make me feel a bit better about humankind.)

To avoid another moderator looking at us reproachfully, here's a map of America's wind turbines. 57,000! That's a lot of turbines.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

33 minutes ago, Marina Schwarz said:

To avoid another moderator looking at us reproachfully, here's a map of America's wind turbines. 57,000! That's a lot of turbines.

Interesting map of America's wind turbines.

So ... what happens during the time when the wind stops blowing?

Backup generators powered by hamsters running on hamster wheels?

Nope, most backups to wind and solar power are still hydrocarbons.

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

Yeah, that's why great big batteries are so hot right now. Personally, they put me in mind of The Tommyknockers.

Hamsters are not such a bad idea or why not people on bicycles, like in Underground. Get fit and generate some electricity.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

People on bicycles pedaling to generate their own electricity probably won't work.  A couple decades ago I remember somene tried marketing a small TV set that was powered by electricity generated by a user pedaling a bicycle.  Supposed to make you fit while watching TV.  But people were too lazy, the idea flopped.

[Mahyar + 16]

The western countries, by tightening environmental controls, should not try to transfer their "dirty" industries to the third world, where, usually, the priority is jobs at any price and where environmental laws are lax or absent.

[Mahyar + 16]

"Dump the environmental waste to Africa"?

Environmental pollution has no borders. No country can solve the problem alone. Therefore, the Northern countries should also stop dumping their toxic wastes to some African, Latin American, Asian and East European countries.

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

True enough, Mahyar.  But if you read the article, it seems that Germany very likely will dump its wind turbine waste in Africa - the "out of sight, out of mind" way of thinking.  Because dumping the waste in Africa is cheaper than complying with EU environmental regulations... after the wind turbine business makes a profit off of collecting government subsidies, of course. 

And that is part of the "renewable energy" oxymoron which I'm trying to point out, by sharing this article and by messing with the article's title.