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On 7/27/2020 at 4:25 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Without a vaccine, and there will not be one just as in the HIV, SARS, and MERS epidemics, herd immunity is the only solution. Lockdowns only ensure a ‘second wave’ once the lockdown is lifted and more hosts are available to the virus.

How long do you lockdown, wear masks, avoid social interactions, close schools until you are sure that the virus will not spread?

The lie we were told was that we needed to flatten the curve to help hospitals and staff so they wouldn't be overrun. 

The new lie we're being told is we have to hunker down until this virus doesn't infect anyone, anywhere. That's to quote Yoshi here, Bullshit. We haven't destroyed economies around to world for other highly communicable diseases. Why this one?

Oh, right, politics and new world order diktat. 

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2 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

The lie we were told was that we needed to flatten the curve to help hospitals and staff so they wouldn't be overrun. 

The new lie we're being told is we have to hunker down until this virus doesn't infect anyone, anywhere. That's to quote Yoshi here, Bullshit. We haven't destroyed economies around to world for other highly communicable diseases. Why this one?

Oh, right, politics and new world order diktat. 

But you (read the USA administration) have destroyed plenty of economies, don't you remember Serbia, Iraq, Iran, Nicaragua, Chile or Lybia, among many others? But the "new world diktat" is slowly becoming old, new challenges are rising, and not all of them can be solved by saber rattling and carpet bombing. 

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8 hours ago, SafetyKris said:

The financial reward and competition for a vaccine is far too great in my view to not have something that will diminish this virus down to at least an influenza level. 

There is almost infinite demand and thus potential financial reward for elixir of immortality (even the First Emperor of the Qi dynasty, who was really afraid of death, invited the best doctors, hebalists, magicians and alchemists to make him immortal, showered them with riches - and died of poisoning when sampling their prototypes), teleport, perpetuum mobile, nuclear fusion reactor (both cold and hot), universal theory of everything, cure for cancer and teleport. Despite the financial incentives and demand, nobody steps forward and delivers. Even worse, world is running out of seemingly trivial things like new effective antibiotics against resistant bacteria strains. 

Why?

Because the market cannot conjure up something that is not possible, or something that is too demanding fro the technological level we have achieved so far. But what the scientific community does agree upon is that the current way the global economics abuses the planet is unsustainable. That means maintaining the old normal will be increasingly difficult to impossible. 

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29 minutes ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

But you (read the USA administration) have destroyed plenty of economies, don't you remember Serbia, Iraq, Iran, Nicaragua, Chile or Lybia, among many others? But the "new world diktat" is slowly becoming old, new challenges are rising, and not all of them can be solved by saber rattling and carpet bombing. 

Found a video of you and I'm sure you're not the girl living in manboo

 

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On 7/28/2020 at 2:36 AM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

A prime example of wrong thought process. You DEMAND return to the previous state of things, so reality MUST offer a solution in the form of herd immunity. In reality, herd immunity is rather doubtful goal, because research shows the antibodies last two or three months and then you are ready to be infected again. If it's true, there will be no herd immunity. In such case, one of the solutions is the so called "New Normal" - adapting and changing standards to reflect a reality that brings a new serious threat. That means permanent measures in the form of masks, distancing, etc. Doing things remotely whenever possible (we have tech for that) - homeworking, homeschooling, broadcast, instead of live events. Scaling down production so that it can be safe under the new condition. Humanity has to scale down economic activity anyway, because the current abuse of the planet is unsustainable - climate change, arable land erosion, fresh water scarcity, natural resources of all kinds depleted, all those factors will force us to change and adapt anyway. The sooner, the better. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-06-25/the-new-normal-after-the-coronavirus-pandemic

Humanity needs to rely on actual science rather than contrived interpretations of weak and incomplete data that ignores what we do know of virology and immunology in general, coronaviruses in general, and SARS 1.. The public health bureaucrats have no ethical obligations in the law and are free to lie and quote bogus science forced onto publications by pharmaceutical companies and their captured regulatory and public health policy associates.

The antibodies are only the 1st immediate line of immunity, the T cells are the backup and retain antigen response much longer. In fact, the small number of T cell prevalence tests conducted so far show that T cell response is 3 X that of antibody response. Meaning that 2 of 3 infected produced no substantial antibodies but have CV19 specific responses from T cells that can kill virus directly. Long term second line defense is the ability to quickly produce antibodies from B cell "libraries" of them. Finally killer T cells that attack infected cells. All of these have been shown to work against CV19 as they do against all the viruses who's components are in this chimera virus.

~34% of Berliners tested have T cell responses to CV19's common pathogen glycoprotein (spikes on the coronaviruses) antigens and are immune. There is every reason to expect ~30% of people globally to have that residual immunity.

The "new normal" anti virus driven policy and protective responses is not entirely necessary and evidence is  already in place to show that the bulk of it is bogus, driven by WHO denial of aerosol transmission and the very effective filtration and ventilation responses that can eliminate it, and masks that reduce the hospitalization rates and deaths, though not directly affecting transmission in a big way. The Chinese dominance of the WHO was used to promote transmission of the virus through this kind of non science and fake advice for not wearing masks earlier in the epidemic. It is a part of the Chinese bio warfare effort against the West in general.

It is entirely probable that where initial containment of the virus failed, the mode of control would be herd immunity obtained naturally as it is endemic already and will continue transmission regardless of policy reactions. All efforts at containment are only delaying the inevitable - the initial NW European and US UK plan of protecting the high risk groups and letting the rest of society go on as they will was scuttled by ineffective protection of the elderly and the mass hysteria of mainstream media and of social media. That continues to date with removal of content provided by practicing medical professionals and scientists far more qualified than the public health authoritarians "in charge", or the mercenary activities of pharma companies and the regulatory system they have captured for their own purposes.

Delta airlines has already installed high efficiency filters in its cabin air handling and have the cleanest spaces outside of a positive pressure clean room.

The mainstream information suppression effort and panic mongering  are purely political with the exception of masks - but not as reducing transmission as claimed, as that is very limited, but reduce hospitalization and deaths somewhat, though not as much as expected and not yet solidly quantified. Using HCQ broadly upon symptoms' appearance is more effective than masks. Contrary to the FDA statements in support of withdrawing its approval, which was based on an article withdrawn from the Lancet because of fake data. Similarly, WHO and NIH trials of HCQ amounted to a combination of incompetence and murder with toxic doses. Particularly in using it for hospitalized people for whom the effect, like that of remdesivir is far too slow to have a substantial impact on death rates, particularly without azythromycin and aided with zinc supplements.

image.thumb.png.51a07e7ff326cd51d6fe76380eb5492c.png

For the broadest comparison, the national comparison for HCQ use (mostly for malaria), though quite crude in controlling for any other factors, it is quite compelling.

The actual new normal will be that prevalence testing for T cell activity will reveal broad herd immunity in most highly populated regions in the US and elsewhere, including entire countries. With countries that have successfully limited transmission having repeated breakouts and inability to resume activities that require proximity.

The actual result would be mass exurbanization, a long standing trend in the US that is picking up speed, and a Southern migration out of large cities dominated by Dem party machines. .Work from Home habits and online retail are driving this. The experience of the middle class under Dem governors and mayors will urge them to leave a deadly environment with arbitrary rules and no police protection. Corporations are reducing their physical downtown office space substantially and relying on WFH and distributed offices. That means that the key Dem areas are going to lose their financial base, their weight in congress in future elections and the economy loses its greatest source of income inequality and sluggish jobs growth.

 

 

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As a relic of the StB in Czechia, Yoshi is obviously not at all concerned with the existence of economies. He just wants to be part of the Marxist junta that would rule the remaining world after trying to destroy our existing one. He is the "new left" Marxist product of the Frankfurt school and Chinese propaganda efforts in the West. I would suggest he can make his contribution to his goals by going to live in the woods without any carbon footprint. Would also rid us of his hysterical justifications for a genocidal psychopath's agenda.

The world is sustainable as it is, it is becoming ever more sustainable as birth rates come down and renewable energy falls in cost and rises in applicability. Populations in the energy intensive developed and newly industrialized world are shrinking, including in Czechia. We are in the second decade of Europe consuming LESS oil and now other fossil fuels as well.During the transition period through the 2030s, there is a sunspot cycle minimum that will see a tanking of temperatures. That is the climate change we need to actually worry about, because unlike the fuzzy "climate change" science, the relationship is hard science.

There is already herd immunity and vaccines, much as I doubt the conventional ones, are possible as T cell immunity has made for long term (so far 6 months proven) immunity, as has B cell rapid response antibody production upon infection. Yoshi is speaking out the wrong end and is entirely ignoring all knowledge of immunology and virology and the fact that while the particular Wuhan chimera virus is a new combo of RNA and surface spikes, none of the componenrs of it were novel. So far, vaccine study reports are not stumbling on cytokine storm reactions to infections that have sunk attempts at a SARS 1 vaccine.

His supposed understanding of the virus is simply a propaganda narrative built up of unfounded fears and inflated numbers..I don't think his posts have any effect in the generally conservative oil industry forum such as this is.

 

 

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On 7/28/2020 at 2:36 PM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

A prime example of wrong thought process. You DEMAND return to the previous state of things, so reality MUST offer a solution in the form of herd immunity. In reality, herd immunity is rather doubtful goal, because research shows the antibodies last two or three months and then you are ready to be infected again. If it's true, there will be no herd immunity. In such case, one of the solutions is the so called "New Normal" - adapting and changing standards to reflect a reality that brings a new serious threat. That means permanent measures in the form of masks, distancing, etc. Doing things remotely whenever possible (we have tech for that) - homeworking, homeschooling, broadcast, instead of live events. Scaling down production so that it can be safe under the new condition. Humanity has to scale down economic activity anyway, because the current abuse of the planet is unsustainable - climate change, arable land erosion, fresh water scarcity, natural resources of all kinds depleted, all those factors will force us to change and adapt anyway. The sooner, the better. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-06-25/the-new-normal-after-the-coronavirus-pandemic

Where was this required ‘new normal’ after the HIV, SARS and MERS epidemics?

The fact is that people need to be a ‘victim’ of something, anything today.

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2 hours ago, Douglas Buckland said:
On 7/28/2020 at 1:36 PM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

A prime example of wrong thought process. You DEMAND return to the previous state of things, so reality MUST offer a solution in the form of herd immunity. In reality, herd immunity is rather doubtful goal, because research shows the antibodies last two or three months and then you are ready to be infected again. If it's true, there will be no herd immunity. In such case, one of the solutions is the so called "New Normal" - adapting and changing standards to reflect a reality that brings a new serious threat. That means permanent measures in the form of masks, distancing, etc. Doing things remotely whenever possible (we have tech for that) - homeworking, homeschooling, broadcast, instead of live events. Scaling down production so that it can be safe under the new condition. Humanity has to scale down economic activity anyway, because the current abuse of the planet is unsustainable - climate change, arable land erosion, fresh water scarcity, natural resources of all kinds depleted, all those factors will force us to change and adapt anyway. The sooner, the better. 

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2020-06-25/the-new-normal-after-the-coronavirus-pandemic

Where was this required ‘new normal’ after the HIV, SARS and MERS epidemics?

The fact is that people need to be a ‘victim’ of something, anything today.

Does anyone want Yoshi's life?  Like a lemming off a cliff, he appears to be happy with the end of his existence except in a solitary format.  Must have become accustomed to such a lifestyle from rarely venturing upstairs.

image.png.0583d46cff73183c319224a9d49a7175.png

Thank Thor that there are people working to make life livable OUTSIDE of this idiocracy proposed/demanded by the Left.

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On 7/28/2020 at 10:26 PM, Ward Smith said:

Found a video of you and I'm sure you're not the girl living in manboo

 

These 2 people are realistic and have high self-awareness although they are lack of purpose to live with life or feeling lack behind new changing world, I doubt they will choose to hate Trump or anyone for their suffering and they wouldn't care about politics or become a writer for hire. They are questioning the philosophy question "What is the meaning of life?". I hope someday they will find the answer to their question and rise to the first opportunity. I was in their mental situation for a few years of my prime time (although I had a room and play online games or reading novels and food, a kind of escape the reality and unseen future, I guess the same with any other addictions to drug, alcohol etc ).

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17 minutes ago, SUZNV said:

These 2 people are realistic and have high self-awareness although they are lack of purpose to live with life or feeling lack behind new changing world, I doubt they will choose to hate Trump or anyone for their suffering and they wouldn't care about politics or become a writer for hire. They are questioning the philosophy question "What is the meaning of life?". I hope someday they will find the answer to their question and rise to the first opportunity. I was in their mental situation for a few years of my prime time (although I had a room and play online games or reading novels and food, a kind of escape the reality and unseen future, I guess the same with any other addictions to drug, alcohol etc ).

I recently rewatched this movie. As an inventor myself there were interesting twists and turns but the overriding message of getting out of your cocoon was the best part of it for me. Don't stop following your dreams and don't let life dictate your terms. The law of entropy is fierce, but humanity was built to overcome it with tremendous effort. 98% of people are unsuccessful for the same reason, they simply don't want to expend the effort. 

 

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On 7/24/2020 at 10:13 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

So you are equating an object whose sole purpose is to stop/collect viral fluids with diapers or rotten meat? Your logic is amazing!

Furthermore, I said disposal as a medical waste....read and comprehend before looking like an asshole...

Those used Diapers can contain plenty of pathogenic bacteria and viruses so the disposal issues are the same. 

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(edited)

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

I recently rewatched this movie. As an inventor myself there were interesting twists and turns but the overriding message of getting out of your cocoon was the best part of it for me. Don't stop following your dreams and don't let life dictate your terms. The law of entropy is fierce, but humanity was built to overcome it with tremendous effort. 98% of people are unsuccessful for the same reason, they simply don't want to expend the effort. 

 

I will definitely watch it with my wife. IMHO everything will have cons and pros and it is a part of life.

1 I tend to go with the flow in life. For example : I let my dad chose what and where to study, where to stay after graduated. I was struggling with that at first but  now look back it wasn't too bad of a choice. I let my wife chose to visit me and I promised to marry her if she wanted to (I haven't seen her for 10 years and have no idea who she was look like or anything else, and I know nothing about her family), I let her chose where to live and it is a blessing in disguise (so far). But I will try to make the most of it anywhere and have a realistic small dreams. Because of that I don't have to question did I choose the best possible way. So in the past I changed my dreams multiple times.

2 Many Vietnamese youngsters in the big cities watch Korean movies/ read to many "how to be rich" books from successful authors such as "Rich Dad Poor Dad" and dreaming they will be rich by choosing economics/business degrees (mostly marketing, business administration) and startup/invest from their parents' saving and be successful like their parents (as a result of opening the economics). Some even drop out of college and think Bill Gate was in their situation (Didn't realize that Bill Gates had more experience in computing than any professor in his time).

They mostly end up basement dweller living from mum or dad's subsidize and keep dreaming, or wake up and  buy a gov job , or doing jobs without the need of tertiary education. But I think some will be successful if they don't give up their dream, who knows?

The fundamental is don't blame anyone, acknowledge your current situation and find a realistic dream and work  toward it. I would have blamed everything (global recession, all friends had jobs, immigrant, color, non-native English Speaker) and went back to Vietnam for easier competition.

Alternatively, my one year younger brother graduated NUS in Singapore, was working for AMD and was promised to transfer to the US. The first time he was successful than his brother and started to complain that my parents didn't love him or I was bullying him (successful people tend to look for an inspiring story, he used to admire me and telling everyone I am his older brother).  He left his IT career in Singapore and came back to Vietnam to do business and then opened a factory, wasting most of his and my parents savings (few hundred grands) until now. Hopefully someday he will be able to prove him right.

----------------

Question about masks:

Can we wash the PPE mask with soap and antibacterial solution/UV/baking/Steaming ? Can we do it with N95? I know I am cheap.

Edited by SUZNV
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1 hour ago, SUZNV said:

Question about masks:

Can we wash the PPE mask with soap and antibacterial solution/UV/baking/Steaming ? Can we do it with N95? I know I am cheap.

If you have a home made cotton mask, for instance using the sleeve of a t-shirt then washing it will do just fine. If it's an N95 mask your best choice is ultraviolet light (because they're largely paper based). This can be as simple as hanging it in sunshine (both sides exposed) or a high power UV bulb preferably under a shroud to protect everyone's eyesight. A few drops of iodine on a mask will kill the bacteria "hosting" the viral fomites while you're out and about. 

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On 7/27/2020 at 5:25 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

Without a vaccine, and there will not be one just as in the HIV, SARS, and MERS epidemics, herd immunity is the only solution. Lockdowns only ensure a ‘second wave’ once the lockdown is lifted and more hosts are available to the virus.

How long do you lockdown, wear masks, avoid social interactions, close schools until you are sure that the virus will not spread?

HIV and herd immunity? 

Condoms are like masks, cover your dick sneeze.

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12 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

If you have a home made cotton mask, for instance using the sleeve of a t-shirt then washing it will do just fine. If it's an N95 mask your best choice is ultraviolet light (because they're largely paper based). This can be as simple as hanging it in sunshine (both sides exposed) or a high power UV bulb preferably under a shroud to protect everyone's eyesight. A few drops of iodine on a mask will kill the bacteria "hosting" the viral fomites while you're out and about. 

Id agree with that. UV light and dry conditions will desiccate the virus rapidly. The best option is having a a number of masks, numbering them and using in rotation. 

I wouldn't go cleaning an N95/99 / FFP2/3 mask with chemicals as this will degrade the filter material. 

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14 hours ago, SUZNV said:

I will definitely watch it with my wife. IMHO everything will have cons and pros and it is a part of life.

1 I tend to go with the flow in life. For example : I let my dad chose what and where to study, where to stay after graduated. I was struggling with that at first but  now look back it wasn't too bad of a choice. I let my wife chose to visit me and I promised to marry her if she wanted to (I haven't seen her for 10 years and have no idea who she was look like or anything else, and I know nothing about her family), I let her chose where to live and it is a blessing in disguise (so far). But I will try to make the most of it anywhere and have a realistic small dreams. Because of that I don't have to question did I choose the best possible way. So in the past I changed my dreams multiple times.

2 Many Vietnamese youngsters in the big cities watch Korean movies/ read to many "how to be rich" books from successful authors such as "Rich Dad Poor Dad" and dreaming they will be rich by choosing economics/business degrees (mostly marketing, business administration) and startup/invest from their parents' saving and be successful like their parents (as a result of opening the economics). Some even drop out of college and think Bill Gate was in their situation (Didn't realize that Bill Gates had more experience in computing than any professor in his time).

They mostly end up basement dweller living from mum or dad's subsidize and keep dreaming, or wake up and  buy a gov job , or doing jobs without the need of tertiary education. But I think some will be successful if they don't give up their dream, who knows?

The fundamental is don't blame anyone, acknowledge your current situation and find a realistic dream and work  toward it. I would have blamed everything (global recession, all friends had jobs, immigrant, color, non-native English Speaker) and went back to Vietnam for easier competition.

Alternatively, my one year younger brother graduated NUS in Singapore, was working for AMD and was promised to transfer to the US. The first time he was successful than his brother and started to complain that my parents didn't love him or I was bullying him (successful people tend to look for an inspiring story, he used to admire me and telling everyone I am his older brother).  He left his IT career in Singapore and came back to Vietnam to do business and then opened a factory, wasting most of his and my parents savings (few hundred grands) until now. Hopefully someday he will be able to prove him right.

----------------

Question about masks:

Can we wash the PPE mask with soap and antibacterial solution/UV/baking/Steaming ? Can we do it with N95? I know I am cheap.

Chemicals will degrade the filter material

If you have a number of masks number them and use in rotation. Best locations to store the mask are dry warm conditions as this will dessicate the virus rapidly. Exposure to some UV even better. 

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UVC lamps also make ozone (two disinfecting mechanisms).

Good for killing germs, also good at giving you cancer or making you blind.

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4 minutes ago, Enthalpic said:

UVC lamps also make ozone (two disinfecting mechanisms).

Good for killing germs, also good at giving you cancer or making you blind.

My suggestion is hang in sunlight for a few hours rather than mess around with UV lamps. 

Rotation is safest approach using time (desiccation) to degrade the virus 

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(edited)

4 minutes ago, NickW said:

My suggestion is hang in sunlight for a few hours rather than mess around with UV lamps. 

Rotation is safest approach using time (desiccation) to degrade the virus 

I bought a UVC lamp years ago, that thing is dangerous. You can feel and smell being around it very quickly (I wear safety glasses).

Sunlight is plenty powerful, as anyone who has had a sunburn can attest. 

Time and expose to oxygen (air) will do a lot.

Edited by Enthalpic

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Now, oh great one, Fauci, is making a move to have us wear goggles.   Hazmat suits will soon be on the way from China.

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On 7/31/2020 at 5:35 AM, Enthalpic said:

HIV and herd immunity? 

Condoms are like masks, cover your dick sneeze.

We were discussing vaccines...dick sneeze!

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If I see someone wearing a mask I will stand closer to them, even been playing a few little games to keep myself amused like the old accidental double side step where you both end up going the same way. You have an immune system which works almost all the time, you don't need a mask but people who wear them, especially visors, look utterly stupid.

Get on with what is left of life (not much at this point) and stop worrying about the coof

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20 hours ago, El Nikko said:

 

That video tells the story that we all know: the "spike" in new cases is due to testing, if it exists at all, and the data is being woefully misrepresented and/or presented. 

I highly recommend everyone to watch the video.

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(edited)

57 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

That video tells the story that we all know: the "spike" in new cases is due to testing, if it exists at all, and the data is being woefully misrepresented and/or presented. 

I highly recommend everyone to watch the video.

The video is labelled "Lies, damn, lies and stats" then it proceeds to convince you of a lie using stats.  Funny!

A portion of the increase in detection is of course due to more testing, that doesn't mean there are not more cases.

I feel the number of critical patients is far more informative than the number of new cases, as many will be mild and probably would not have been detected without increased testing. However, you have 18,700 in serious condition right now, for them covid is 100% real.

Edited by Enthalpic

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