Rational analysis of CV19 from Harvard Medical School

[ronwagn + 6,290]

6 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Unsubstantiated claims were blocked, as they would it be for any other drug, as that is illegal.

You can argue against the FDA - who thinks it is too dangerous for widespread use - but not the media as we all know about it...

 

Unsubstantiated claims for drugs and supplements are advertised dozens of times per day throughout the media of all kinds. Hydroxychloroquine does not need to advertise but is blocked by administrators in many countries for nefarious reasons. Either to make more money on other drugs, egotism, or to harm President Trump. Meanwhile many thousands of people have died due to this policy!

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Not only fired but the group website was shut down by the host company and Facebook. 

Here is a great Twitter thread on HCQ and it updates continuously. https://twitter.com/niro60487270

Here is my topic

 https://docs.google.com/document/d/1MXY8T0j7k0oUBsHW4BfjJM__DRIyzqrDf_FSlV4hHpw/edit

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

15 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Keep it going ignite the flames of passion...

I've decided not to engage with the racist troll. The very first thing in our constitution that the troll pretends to know (at all) let alone "better than" me involves Freedom of Religion. What the troll doesn't understand, possible that he slept through that class in indoctrination, is that America was populated by people with "funny" religious ideas that got them persecuted to the point of death in Europe. This is why freedom of religion is enshrined in our Bill of Rights and elsewhere. 

When a religious minister is talking about religion beliefs, that speech is quite literally sacrosanct both by religion and speech freedoms enshrined. The troll hides behind freedom of speech while it is attacking its betters on this site, but denies that right to Americans either by birth or legal immigration? She can say whatever she likes on the pulpit and within the contexts of her religion that's perfectly OK with me. 

Sir Isaac Newton not only was approximately 10,000 times smarter than the troll, he also had deeply felt religious beliefs. In fact he published more on religion than he did on science! Now even a racist troll like Yoshi can't deny Newton's scientific credentials, although his CCP indoctrination forces him to toe the atheist communist line. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

4 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Unsubstantiated claims for drugs and supplements are advertised dozens of times per day throughout the media of all kinds.

Direct to consumer advertising of Rx only medication is odd, pretty much only happens in the states. 

They do have to have some evidence for their claims, however.

 

"Ask your doctor if this dangerous medication is right for you. If you are having trouble paying for your medication big Pharma may be able to assist."

 

You could ask your Dr for some HCQ...

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

 me. 

Sir Isaac Newton not only was approximately 10,000 times smarter than the troll, he also had deeply felt religious beliefs. In fact he published more on religion than he did on science!

Newton was smart but dabbled in whichcraft, alchemy (philosophers’ stone), and died a virgin.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Enthalpic

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

 

Sir Isaac Newton not only was approximately 10,000 times smarter than the troll, he also had deeply felt religious beliefs. In fact he published more on religion than he did on science! Now even a racist troll like Yoshi can't deny Newton's scientific credentials, although his CCP indoctrination forces him to toe the atheist communist line. 

It's quite ridiculous when people like you, who faithfully parrot every refuted conspiration theory after Donald Trump, and defend even the silliest of his ideas, suddenly try to measure other people's intelligence, especially of someone like Newton - it's like a frog armed with a blade of grass, trying to measure the deepest well. Ridiculous. 

You know what do you differ from Isaac Newton? He, unlike you, respected facts and the scientific method, and his model of mechanics had only 3 laws, laying out crystal clear system that lasted until Einstein came around. Your confused ramblings on the topic of epidemiology resemble the exact opposite of Newton's clarity. And religion? Newton did not need it to create and explain his model, nor did Laplace, who answered Napoleon when asked why he does not mention God in his book about mathematics: "I did not need that hypothesis". 

Religion and science do not mix. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

2 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Direct to consumer advertising of Rx only medication is odd, pretty much only happens in the states. 

They do have to have some evidence for their claims, however.

 

"Ask your doctor if this dangerous medication is right for you. If you are having trouble paying for your medication big Pharma may be able to assist."

 

You could ask your Dr for some HCQ...

 

My appointment is coming up and I am planning on asking him if my atrial fib is a contraindication for it. I hope not. I would take it right now, if I had some. It took my wife eleven days to get test results. By that time it might have been too late to get it. Neither of us have it. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

14 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

My appointment is coming up and I am planning on asking him if my atrial fib is a contraindication for it. I hope not. I would take it right now, if I had some. It took my wife eleven days to get test results. By that time it might have been too late to get it. Neither of us have it. 

I haven't seen my Dr in over a year now, regular checkups were stopped for covid.

I like it, I just see my prescribing pharmacist directly; she has given me everything I've wanted so far.  I asked if she had HCQ in stock, she does, but I doubt she would hand that over without a Rx.

 

A test that takes 11 days for results is worthless.

Edited July 31, 2020 by Enthalpic

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Just now, Enthalpic said:

I haven't seen my Dr in over a year now, regular checkups were stopped for covid.

I like it, I just see my prescribing pharmacist directly; she has given me everything I've wanted so far.  I asked if she had HCQ in stock, she does, but I doubt she would hand that over without a Rx.

That sounds better than our policy, I imagine there are a lot of limitations though. That protects the pharmacist too. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Just now, ronwagn said:

That sounds better than our policy, I imagine there are a lot of limitations though. That protects the pharmacist too. 

Generally, you have to have a old Rx on file, they will just issue refills.

.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,194]

6 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Religion and science do not mix. 

Religion and Science  mix just fine.  Unless you throw out religion or science in spite of one or the other. 

Current biggest religion in science with plenty of direct counter evidence against is that CO2 forces climate... 🤣

[0R0 + 6,251]

14 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Direct to consumer advertising of Rx only medication is odd, pretty much only happens in the states. 

They do have to have some evidence for their claims, however.

 

"Ask your doctor if this dangerous medication is right for you. If you are having trouble paying for your medication big Pharma may be able to assist."

 

You could ask your Dr for some HCQ...

 

Actually, part of the reason drugs are expensive by multiples than they are outside the US is the marketing expense, those pricey TV ads are nothing compared to the armies of pharma sales people that go into doctors offices and hospitals every day to push the most recent patented compound or formulation. In most other countries, the drug formulary is negotiated statewide with the makers. No opportunity for obtaining a leg up with advertisement.

The evidence for supplements is usually widely documented and quantified where the therapeutic effect is concerned. Same with the new applications of old drugs. The FDA has been on a mission since its founding to smother anything that competes with pharma's patented products. It is why it exists. Similarly the NIH is both in charge of funding anti research to produce impressions of danger or inefficacy in cheap medicine (old meds or non pharma) as well as producing research into new targets and compounds that will ultimately lead to patentable drugs. This is used by bio startups to invent drugs, and the handful of successes get bought out by big pharma or incorporated into it with joint ventures and partnerships. Basic research and early stage discovery is not done in large pharma, they have proven to themselves that they just can't do it, and had gone to focus on financing and marketing, and legal and lobbying efforts.

[0R0 + 6,251]

12 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

It's quite ridiculous when people like you, who faithfully parrot every refuted conspiration theory after Donald Trump, and defend even the silliest of his ideas, suddenly try to measure other people's intelligence, especially of someone like Newton - it's like a frog armed with a blade of grass, trying to measure the deepest well. Ridiculous. 

You know what do you differ from Isaac Newton? He, unlike you, respected facts and the scientific method, and his model of mechanics had only 3 laws, laying out crystal clear system that lasted until Einstein came around. Your confused ramblings on the topic of epidemiology resemble the exact opposite of Newton's clarity. And religion? Newton did not need it to create and explain his model, nor did Laplace, who answered Napoleon when asked why he does not mention God in his book about mathematics: "I did not need that hypothesis". 

Religion and science do not mix. 

Newton did publish much more about religion than science, and put in more effort into alchemy (not published but written up in code in his notebooks). Science and religion mix within the people producing it. Just as math and music do. Or computer science and philosophy.

You only get the impression that they are not intimately mixed because the science has to stand on its own evidence and the theory conform to logic and math as well as the facts. The process that gets you there is an entirely different thing and is full of religious and other motivations, analogies, convictions and inspirations. In the way Einstein famously quipped to the probability physicists of his day that "god does not throw dice". You need to be a practitioner to understand it. From outside you only see the finished publications.

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

Dr. Fauci deals with 0R0, BLA -style pseudoscience, clearly demonstrating the difference between a real scientist and a fake one.

 

 

[Yoshiro Kamamura + 274]

Newton may have published more on religion than on science, but if you ask high school or college students today, nobody knows nor remembers about what Newton wrote on the topic of religion, but every student worth his salt should be able to remember the 3 laws of Newtonian mechanics. That should tell you something about the respective importance of both disciplines. 

Middle ages theologians discussed for hours on topics like "how many angels fit on a tip of a needle", or "dis Jesus own his robe and sandals, or was he just using them?" 

Religion asks you to discard critical thinking and rely on blind faith. Science asks you to discard blind faith and rely on critical thinking and endless verification of every statement. How can they ever be compatible? Where one advances, the other has to retreat, like light and shadow. 

It does not surprises me 0R0 quotes the Einstein's statement about playing dice in a wrong context. The statement expressed Einstein's refusal to accept the basic observations of quantum physics, namely the Heisenberg's principle of Uncertainty. Einstein also refused the image of an Universe that is expanding or shrinking - he considered Universe something eternal. Today we know, that in both these topics, Einstein was wrong. Micro-particles like electrons exist in a form of probability cloud, and each attempt to measure their position at the same time influences them, hence the principal impossibility to increase accuracy beyond certain limit. We also know we are living in an expanding universe. 

However, the world still waits on the next scientific genius who will unite the Einstein's theory and the Quantum theory, because so far, they seem to contradict each other, signifying they both miss part of the whole picture. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

On 8/1/2020 at 10:46 PM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Dr. Fauci deals with 0R0, BLA -style pseudoscience, clearly demonstrating the difference between a real scientist and a fake one.

 

 

Again, there is a conceit in Fauci's idea of what science is, the reports he criticizes are actual science intended to to find out how things work. His idea of science is what was designed in a trial to produce particular yes no  outcomes with hard statistical confidence. He does not mention that the trials he is relying on to promote his opinion are badly designed and executed and are not in any way science.

The biggest statistically significant demonstration of HCQ/Z is in the death statistics in France, where HCQ/Z was allowed for treatment of CV19 a week or so before deaths peaked and fell rapidly, nearly vertically. Granted some of that has to do with the drop in transmission rate with the hard lockdown, but it is the introduction of HCQ/Z that cut down case fatality rates. Since then, additional treatment options have been worked out to improve outcomes at hospitals and in the outpatient clinical care and fitting of treatment to patient specifics. 

That CCP trolls enlist Fauci on their side is an indication of how deep the Chinese intrusion into the operations of institutions around the world has reached. How they have partnered with corporations to corrupt the entirety of bureaucracies to bend in their favor. There will be an extension of security vetting of these to where the traces of Chinese influence will be followed to all the individuals involved as they are in military and spy technology and operations, through the corporations as well.

Edited August 3, 2020 by 0R0

[Hotone + 412]

39 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Again, there is a conceit in Fauci's idea of what science is, the reports he criticizes are actual science intended to to find out how things work. His idea of science is what was designed in a trial to produce particular yes no  outcomes with hard statistical confidence. He does not mention that the trials he is relying on to promote his opinion are badly designed and executed and are not in any way science.

The biggest statistically significant demonstration of HCQ/Z is in the death statistics in France, where HCQ/Z was allowed for treatment of CV19 a week or so before deaths peaked and fell rapidly, nearly vertically. Granted some of that has to do with the drop in transmission rate with the hard lockdown, but it is the introduction of HCQ/Z that cut down case fatality rates. Since then, additional treatment options have been worked out to improve outcomes at hospitals and in the outpatient clinical care and fitting of treatment to patient specifics. 

That CCP trolls enlist Fauci on their side is an indication of how deep the Chinese intrusion into the operations of institutions around the world has reached. How they have partnered with corporations to corrupt the entirety of bureaucracies to bend in their favor. There will be an extension of security vetting of these to where the traces of Chinese influence will be followed to all the individuals involved as they are in military and spy technology and operations, through the corporations as well.

Why see the hand of the CCP in everything?  The Chinese and the CCP are a lot less sophisticated than you fear.    

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, Hotone said:

Why see the hand of the CCP in everything?  The Chinese and the CCP are a lot less sophisticated than you fear.    

Exactly. 

Seems odd that the same people who think they are greatest and most powerful in the world simultaneously think they are being controlled.

Can't really hold both beliefs; are you the master or the puppet?

[SUZNV + 1,197]

How do you measure the sophistication of politics vs fear to compare them together unless you are able reach to the end of both strings?

The master in one area can perfectly the puppets in others and vice versa and that's the reason for the current equilibrium (either good or bad). The only true master would be god (in religions) or Law of the Universe (in science). The rests are trying to be masters. 

BTW, I am sure CCP interferes in US elections more than Russia after  the Cold War. And surely more than US Government Agency interferes in CCP elections. I wonder if anyone disagrees on that?

Edited August 3, 2020 by SUZNV

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 7/30/2020 at 2:38 PM, Hotone said:

😱 You tested positive and then you healed yourself?  That's impressive!

Why don't you write an article about it and get it published by some reputable media or scientific outlet.  Or contact some of the credible experts.  I think people like Bill Haseltine would be quite approachable.  Get the word out. 

The world (at least the people I chat with in a few countries) is watching in horror at how America is managing this pandemic. Do something positive.  Arguing with people on this forum is just a waste of time.

The world is in horror because they don't understand statistics. The punters do not understand that the Covid virus is less deadly than the flu, but comes in a rush, all at once, due to it's higher transmisibility. They do not understand that over 5 years, less people will die from covid than from the flu. Trump is correct, Covid deaths will be negligible in a month or so in the US. ORO has already explained why, so I will not bother to go over the details. Early in the outbreak, my model showed that the US death rate would be between 200,000 to 600,000 (ie: 0.06% to 0.18%). It now appears that the final result will be at the low end, or even lower still. Pandemics may make spectacular headlines, but this in no plague, which killed 40% of Europe. By the way, the plague has made a comeback in Mongolia, and nobody is talking about it? Ebola is not over yet either, but hey, that is an African thing isn't it?

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

7 minutes ago, Wombat said:

 Trump is correct, Covid deaths will be negligible in a month or so in the US.

He says that every month, eventually he will be right.  Ignore all the times he was very wrong.

 

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 7/31/2020 at 2:08 PM, Eyes Wide Open said:

MSNBC is out of control...CNN Brian Stelter got himself in a legal pickle...his days are numbered...https://www.foxnews.com/media/cnn-brian-stelter-covington-nicholas-sandmann

It is almost embarassing to watch our new media under report or absolutely misreport. Antifa has used 5 watt chinese made lasers on crowd control law enforcement...

I find it amazing that was tolerated. If I had a gun, and someone tried to shine a powerful laser in to my eyes, I would use it! If not allowed to use my gun, I would quit the job, which I hear is exactly what many police are doing.

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 7/31/2020 at 4:30 PM, Hotone said:

It seems that people attending Trump rallies and don't wear masks are dying.  RIP.

https://www.businessinsider.com/herman-cain-dies-after-being-hospitalized-for-covid-19-2020-7

 

That is just charming. I hope someone finds you and helps you RIP?

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

31 minutes ago, Wombat said:

I find it amazing that was tolerated. If I had a gun, and someone tried to shine a powerful laser in to my eyes, I would use it! If not allowed to use my gun, I would quit the job, which I hear is exactly what many police are doing.

You would kill someone over a non-lethal attack that can you could be protected against almost entirely with simple safety glasses?

I love that it had to be pointed out that the lasers were made in China when the shooters are American.

"Guns don't kill people, unless the gun was made in China, then it's the gun's fault."

 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

31 minutes ago, Wombat said:

 I hope someone finds you and helps you RIP?

You hope someone kills him?

Wow