America Could Go Fully Electric Right Now

[Wombat + 1,028]

2 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

Lovely math and formulas.

I have a degree in computer programming. The company I worked with in the late 1990's hired someone that was one semester away from graduating with a Masters in Computer Science. In about 3 days I realized this guy couldn't program. This isn't just my experience. Most tech companies pay little attention to degrees.

A lot of people that got degrees 20 or 40 years ago look at today's degree programs and realize what they learned 20 or 40 years ago wouldn't get them a job today. So 'having a degree' doesn't mean much in itself, what matters is what people do.

Science is loaded with error and accidental discoveries. I might be arrogant. I suspect the average PhD candidate facing their peers while defending their thesis sees a lot of 'arrogance'. Keyword search 'two dangerous tribes'.

Fundamentally, fusion works - the sun and hydrogen bombs prove it. Low yield fusion is achieved all the time in laboratories. No one has been able to get a high yield 'burn' under controlled conditions. Yet.

U twit. Math and formulas are the language of Physics and if you don't understand them, you don't understand Physics. There are 2 things that will make a very large scale tomokak viable energetically. First is size. It would have to be at least 10X larger than the ITER. Second, you would need an exceptionally powerful quantum computer with AI to control the plasma. However, even if that happens within the next 30 years, then there is the issue of economic viability, which could take an extra 50 years. Tell u what, Einstein, if u think simulating the Sun under controlled conditions is so easy, why don't you do it yourself? Next you will be telling me that cold fusion is real but the oil companies bought the patent to shut it down? Tell me, what is your explanation as to why inertial mass and gravitational mass are equal to the limit of our testing ability? I would like to know if you actually understand Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. My Uni Professor told me that I was one of just 10 people on the planet that understood it. My turn to cross-examine you.

[Meredith Poor + 894]

2 hours ago, Wombat said:

I would like to know if you actually understand Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. My Uni Professor told me that I was one of just 10 people on the planet that understood it. My turn to cross-examine you.

No, I don't understand it. I have a vague idea what it means, but only a rough idea of the math.

Why does 'ball lightning' look a lot like the plasmas in fusors? What is the possibility that fusion is going on around us all the time?

[Michael Sanches + 187]

I missed the part where you explained how the 36% of households that rent apartments and the 20% of the remainder who do own houses with only on-street parking are going to charge their cars.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

44 minutes ago, Michael Sanches said:

I missed the part where you explained how the 36% of households that rent apartments and the 20% of the remainder who do own houses with only on-street parking are going to charge their cars.

Don't forget that all those apartments electrical systems BARELY meet code without a watt to spare. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 9/28/2020 at 9:25 AM, Wombat said:

U twit. Math and formulas are the language of Physics and if you don't understand them, you don't understand Physics. There are 2 things that will make a very large scale tomokak viable energetically. First is size. It would have to be at least 10X larger than the ITER. Second, you would need an exceptionally powerful quantum computer with AI to control the plasma. However, even if that happens within the next 30 years, then there is the issue of economic viability, which could take an extra 50 years. Tell u what, Einstein, if u think simulating the Sun under controlled conditions is so easy, why don't you do it yourself? Next you will be telling me that cold fusion is real but the oil companies bought the patent to shut it down? Tell me, what is your explanation as to why inertial mass and gravitational mass are equal to the limit of our testing ability? I would like to know if you actually understand Einstein's General Theory of Relativity. My Uni Professor told me that I was one of just 10 people on the planet that understood it. My turn to cross-examine you.

Dude, it's a Tokamak, not what you keep typing.  🤓

I'm pretty confident more than ten people understand Relativity. I agree with the rest of your diatribe however.  😇

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

On 9/28/2020 at 11:35 AM, Meredith Poor said:

No, I don't understand it. I have a vague idea what it means, but only a rough idea of the math.

Why does 'ball lightning' look a lot like the plasmas in fusors? What is the possibility that fusion is going on around us all the time?

Plasma looks like plasma because it is plasma!! Lightning makes plasma because of the intense fields being created for milliseconds. They are not causing fusion!

Here's the math, simplified for the simple. If I consume 100 million electron volts (MEV) to produce an effect, such as (potentially) fusing two atoms together, how, precisely will I get that energy back? Don't even worry about safely, just worry about energy recovery. Thermal? Steam? Direct? Asking for a friend 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

For my Aussie (virtual) friends here. Brits too I suppose 😎

Because you're just so darn literal

Edited October 2, 2020 by Ward Smith

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

On 9/28/2020 at 11:35 AM, Meredith Poor said:

Why does 'ball lightning' look a lot like the plasmas in fusors? What is the possibility that fusion is going on around us all the time?

The Shankar skyrmion.

 

[KilonBerlin + 9]

What about the infrastructure? I remember older reports about the US infrastructure... the amounts they estimated are needed to only bring everything into a "ok, this will last a few years combined with current annual budgets for that infrastructure", the budgets are too low of course. I think around ~2005 when I started to interest myself more and more about (global) "Peak Oil" (or the non-sense it obviously was/is) during the same time my interest about US infrastructure started. 

Bridges, roads and the electricity grid were always one thing which seemed to get not enough money after Bush started the 2nd war against Iraq and in 2004-2005 also the until than pretty weak resistance in Afghanistan started to get active there, together with Iraqi resistance fighters which waited the first 1,2 or 3 years.

Bush wanted to finance the whole thing with Iraqi oil. I remember that the much older infrastructure at the East Coast and Gulf of Mexico area (pretty poor "Southern states" + Texas?) was much worse than the West Coast with strong states like California and Washington, also a larger population growth leading to larger investments into growing cities...

Already a while after the 2008 crisis in the early 2010's I remember an article where experts said that at least 2 trillion right now are needed... how does that look now?! I mean its pretty heavy if a country which isn't already producing ~100% of its electricity by renewables (Norway or Iceland, both Hydropower) is going to replace the fossil fuel cars by EVs. Without any losses during transport, loading process etc. for example an average single in Germany living alone consumed ~2.200 kWh (+200 kWh if warm water is also electric), of course for 2, 3 or more person households the consumption per person goes down a lot. However even in this "worst" case single scenario a car with a 100 kWh accumulator which loads "only" 2 cycles per month is already using as much as the single, recharging 3 times a month is already as much as a couple with a child.

In Germany the total area is small, but in the US or Canada? I mean California has very high gasoline taxes and also electricity prices are pretty high but US average 2019 was 0,12 USD per kWh... in Germany the average is one of the highest (excluding some small island states or so) in the world with 0,30 €uro per kWh which was something like 0,35 USD per kWh...could the (northern) East Coast area and Gulf of Mexico-Area really deliver enough energy?! Not to talk about producing it completely "green"? I think the German grid would collapse with over 50 million private vehicles using fossil fuels would try to charge at home (with 230V, up to 16 Ampere from normal power outlet, which is only ~3.7 kW but in the US with much lower voltage I think its even less? This is "emergency" loading for most people with a EV today, you can install a wallbox, but you have not only to contact your energy company but also the ministry, every wallbox or comparable with 4 kW or more have to be reported. With 2-phase solutions you charge with ~7 kW, the for now best solution is a 3-phase wallbox with 11 kW. 

There is also the possibility to get a ~22 kW wallbox with 3-phases but the costs are really high and for the coming years nobody really needs such a connection at home, the electricity companies also don't like it because if someone plugs in his car during the peak hours its a lot energy and hard to forecast...and I mean 22 kW is like 22 wash machines running at once...prices at chargers are even much higher in many cases than the average 0,30 €uro per kWh for whole Germany (not 100% green), green energy costs 1.5 to 3 cent more usually, depends where you live...Germany has not such good potential like the sunny US states, wind energy in most places is the best for commercial production and of course photovoltaik at roofs of homes for private users trying to reduce their energy bill...EVs as well as such solutions are getting huge subsidies right now in Germany...

buying an EV you can save 9k to 11k €uro in 2020 and I think 2021 too (just the VAT is reduced so far only for 2020 from 19 to 16%), they changed it to make more expensive cars like tesla model 3 long range getting the full amount too, before this the model 3 long range did cost 50% more compared to same range Volkswagen I.D. 3, but now the tesla also gets the full subsidy...2 out of 3 scenarios in the new BP energy outlook are saying that global "Peak Oil Demand" was in 2019 and because of Corona this levels won't be reached again, only in the "Business as Usual" scenario the global peak demand will be in the mid to late 2020's... what do you think?!

Energy from Chargers there will be a heavy fight for this market, this could result in lower prices (competition) or higher prices if some cartel like agreements are made...however demand will increase for sure I think...

[Meredith Poor + 894]

On 10/2/2020 at 9:01 PM, KilonBerlin said:

for example an average single in Germany living alone consumed ~2.200 kWh (+200 kWh if warm water is also electric)

I'm not sure I understand these numbers. A typical single occupant residence in the US uses about 1Mwh including water heater but not including air conditioner. The water heater is about 1/3rd of the bill, or 300Kwh per month. With AC, the usage might double to 2Mwh per month, depending on the the efficiency of the AC. Most SEER 18 models might add 200Kwh per month.

Given that people in Germany aren't using AC like people in Texas or Florida (how many even have it at all?) the only use would appear to be heat pumps, unless you're using resistance heating. How do most German homeowners heat their homes?

[Michael Sanches + 187]

Going fully electric is simply a dumb, utopian, fascist ideal. I plan to continue using coal, and even wood, in my grilling. Please show me your electric griller that gives that good briquette taste that is also tinged with applewood (Not using chemical liquid additives.) If you cannot, you are a liar when you say we could go fully electric right now.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

Going fully electric is simply a dumb, utopian, fascist ideal. I plan to continue using coal, and even wood, in my grilling. Please show me your electric griller that gives that good briquette taste that is also tinged with applewood (Not using chemical liquid additives.) If you cannot, you are a liar when you say we could go fully electric right now.

Can you please provide a link to this applewood flavored coal that you use?

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

4 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

Going fully electric is simply a dumb, utopian, fascist ideal. I plan to continue using coal, and even wood, in my grilling. Please show me your electric griller that gives that good briquette taste that is also tinged with applewood (Not using chemical liquid additives.) If you cannot, you are a liar when you say we could go fully electric right now.

Don't you know?  All things that you like are bad for you.  Thank a greenie for keeping you informed.

[Meredith Poor + 894]

17 hours ago, Michael Sanches said:

Going fully electric is simply a dumb, utopian, fascist ideal. I plan to continue using coal, and even wood, in my grilling. Please show me your electric griller that gives that good briquette taste that is also tinged with applewood (Not using chemical liquid additives.) If you cannot, you are a liar when you say we could go fully electric right now.

Kinda, sort of, almost fully electric. Campfires, applewood grills, and romantic candles are excluded.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

8 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

Kinda, sort of, almost fully electric. Campfires, applewood grills, and romantic candles are excluded.

Exceptions must be made!

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

23 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Can you please provide a link to this applewood flavored coal that you use?

he did say "and even wood" in his post. I can cook apple wood in the absence of oxygen and create something that looks very much like coal, called briquettes by some. Smokey delicious goodness.  😋

[RichieRich216 + 454]

Yes working out great for California

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 10/3/2020 at 5:13 AM, Ward Smith said:

Dude, it's a Tokamak, not what you keep typing.  🤓

I'm pretty confident more than ten people understand Relativity. I agree with the rest of your diatribe however.  😇

OK, about 3000 people "understand" relativity, but there is actually only 5 of us left that ACCEPT it. The basic premise of general relativity is called the equivalence principle. Most physicists think it is just another hypotheses to be disproven. It is not. There are 2 interpretations of general relativity, the one which accepts the equivalence principle because we actually do understand the concept that leads to it (and stipulates no such thing as a gravity wave), and the religious one that likes to wrap the universe in a ball created by God. After 100 years of trying to "disprove" Einstein's "Theory", guess who is still winning? You may find this interesting:

https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2007/18may_equivalenceprinciple/

The reason "gravity waves" are never found simultaneously at LIGO and ICE CUBE is because they don't exist! Indeed, ICE CUBE was the first to come up with a false positive, after much fanfare of "detecting" a gravity wave, it was later discovered they were detecting the effects of cosmic gas. I could go on, but you get the gist

 

[Wombat + 1,028]

5 minutes ago, Wombat said:

OK, about 3000 people "understand" relativity, but there is actually only 5 of us left that ACCEPT it. The basic premise of general relativity is called the equivalence principle. Most physicists think it is just another hypotheses to be disproven. It is not. There are 2 interpretations of general relativity, the one which accepts the equivalence principle because we actually do understand the concept that leads to it (and stipulates no such thing as a gravity wave), and the religious one that likes to wrap the universe in a ball created by God. After 100 years of trying to "disprove" Einstein's "Theory", guess who is still winning? You may find this interesting:

https://science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2007/18may_equivalenceprinciple/

The reason "gravity waves" are never found simultaneously at LIGO and ICE CUBE is because they don't exist! Indeed, ICE CUBE was the first to come up with a false positive, after much fanfare of "detecting" a gravity wave, it was later discovered they were detecting the effects of cosmic gas. I could go on, but you get the gist

 

PS: This is why I like to see the math in a peer-reviewed journal. There is no point in coming up with a theory like GWD if you can't do the math and make some testable predictions as to it's accuracy. There is a big difference in the way that general relativity was taught 30 years ago and the corrupted version that has been taught these last 20 years. You can see it in the original version of the book "The New Physics" compared to later volumes. Fraud of the century.

[Wombat + 1,028]

7 minutes ago, Wombat said:

PS: This is why I like to see the math in a peer-reviewed journal. There is no point in coming up with a theory like GWD if you can't do the math and make some testable predictions as to it's accuracy. There is a big difference in the way that general relativity was taught 30 years ago and the corrupted version that has been taught these last 20 years. You can see it in the original version of the book "The New Physics" compared to later volumes. Fraud of the century.

PSS: Some of the technologies in Star Trek are theoretically possible (like beam me up Scotty), but the Hyperdrive is not. Otherwise, the aliens really would have paid us a visit by now

 

[NickW + 2,714]

On 10/2/2020 at 6:10 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Don't forget that all those apartments electrical systems BARELY meet code without a watt to spare. 

I suspect a OP.com exaggeration however assuming those apartments have basement parking, restrict charging to off peak slow charging (say 3 or 6KW). Intelligent controls can taper the charge rate to avoid blowing the fuse. 

On street parking - the Councils and utilities are looking at using the street lighting network to allow slow charge options. I don't whether that will be viable but its being investigated. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,187]

4 hours ago, NickW said:

I suspect a OP.com exaggeration however assuming those apartments have basement parking, restrict charging to off peak slow charging (say 3 or 6KW). Intelligent controls can taper the charge rate to avoid blowing the fuse. 

On street parking - the Councils and utilities are looking at using the street lighting network to allow slow charge options. I don't whether that will be viable but its being investigated. 

What appartment/flat in this world has basement parking?  Next to none other than high rises in downtown rich snotville.  And no, there is not a slot to spare in most apartment electrical panels as everything is built to the least $$$ and often have only 75Amp service and quite often do not even have an electric oven as it is too big of a current draw.  Even most 125Amp panels are way too small to add an extra double breaker or large 50amp breaker.  Heck, even a lot of 200 Amp service panels are jugged.  Now add that new NEC code and European equivalent require every outlet now to be GFCI breaker fused and pretty much every electrical panel in the world is too small assuming one builds according to code... 😆   Who knew, regulations have costs...

[Michael Sanches + 187]

5 hours ago, NickW said:

I suspect a OP.com exaggeration however assuming those apartments have basement parking, restrict charging to off peak slow charging (say 3 or 6KW). Intelligent controls can taper the charge rate to avoid blowing the fuse. 

On street parking - the Councils and utilities are looking at using the street lighting network to allow slow charge options. I don't whether that will be viable but its being investigated. 

The problem is only partly capability. You also have to figure in the sociological aspect. One thing to expect is a LOT of vandalism with on street charging, as well as apartment parking lot charging. This will not only result in large amounts of missed time at work/school, but the replacement cost of charging wiring. If we mandated all electric cars, we would also need to mandate 20 days of paid leave for days your car didn't get charged. We would also need the government to have a program of free same day service of replacements of wiring that was cut between the outlet and the car.

Now, all this wiring, all the way to the car, also has to be waterproof due to the automatic sprinklers, as well as rain. It has to be ice proof. It has to be snow proof. Ice/snow/rain all require different adaptations. And don't forget the snow plows that plow walls of 4 feet of snow over the curb.

No garage = no electric 90% of the time.

[NickW + 2,714]

43 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

What appartment/flat in this world has basement parking?  Next to none other than high rises in downtown rich snotville.  And no, there is not a slot to spare in most apartment electrical panels as everything is built to the least $$$ and often have only 75Amp service and quite often do not even have an electric oven as it is too big of a current draw.  Even most 125Amp panels are way too small to add an extra double breaker or large 50amp breaker.  Heck, even a lot of 200 Amp service panels are jugged.  Now add that new NEC code and European equivalent require every outlet now to be GFCI breaker fused and pretty much every electrical panel in the world is too small assuming one builds according to code... 😆   Who knew, regulations have costs...

Ok - assuming an apartment block has off road parking then there is the option of charge meters for overnight charging. They don't need to be 60 KW chargers.

Assuming a 120v supply I would have thought a 20-30 amp outlet  would suffice for this type of charging. 

No need for a link to the apartments consumer unit. Plenty of firms already developing such services.

https://pod-point.com/solutions/driver/apartment-charging

Edited October 7, 2020 by NickW

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Here's the problem with street charging. As it is right now, meth addicts have been breaking into electrical substations to steal copper. Imagine you've got that nice, juicy 20' 2 gauge copper cord going to your car. The odds it survives the night in some neighborhoods? Approximately zero.