America Could Go Fully Electric Right Now

[Rob Kramer + 696]

5 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

This is one cause of employment insecurity. The point of these questions isn't that anyone answer them, it's that they use what they understand about them to build a clearer picture of what their opportunities are. Certain areas of the world, including Alberta, are going to have to make some massive economic realignments in order to simply remain at levels of prosperity they've experienced recently. The alternative is that large numbers of people migrate to other areas or simply retire and drop out of the workforce. There are people that believe the world owes them a living, or more specifically a high-paying oil field job in Alberta. 'I don't appreciate homework' illustrates that kind of thinking.

I'm doing just fine for my family - despite your 'end of the world' by any means usable cult trying to 'help me' (by putting up every cost) . I'd say theres a certain group of people who dream of having everything handed to them without earning it. I'd rather be in the hardworking earn your own living group personally. But yes I do agree if you do a job worth a good pay you should be paid good. And I'm not talking about counting people in a store or taking forehead temperature readings. The ammount of fake jobs today is off the chart probably from dear old technology.

[Meredith Poor + 895]

3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

It also costs less than wind or solar, despite what they say. 

Earlier in this thread I did the math. It is cheaper than wind for generating electricity, although not by much. It is not cheaper than solar standing alone. I haven't done the math yet on solar + storage, simply because the storage numbers are in flux.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 hour ago, Meredith Poor said:

Earlier in this thread I did the math. It is cheaper than wind for generating electricity, although not by much. It is not cheaper than solar standing alone. I haven't done the math yet on solar + storage, simply because the storage numbers are in flux.

Meredith, I won't argue with your math but just what is put into your formulas. Please include all costs including mining pollution, disposal, environmental, subsidies, etc. Aesthetics are subjective by mine favors less man made objects that are conspicuous. I would prefer that wind turbines were colored to match the background. Then again that might kill more birds. 

[Meredith Poor + 895]

2 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Please include all costs including mining pollution, disposal, environmental, subsidies, etc.

Yup. Over the counter price isn't meaningful, look at social costs. So how does that play out in comparison to natural gas?

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

On 9/10/2020 at 1:49 AM, ceo_energemsier said:

We are 100% electric, we get electricity from oil, gas, coal and the other piddly stuff LOL

The USA is not even 100% electrified (many remote areas do not have grid access) let alone 100% electric (many devices run directly from fuels).

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

54 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

Yup. Over the counter price isn't meaningful, look at social costs. So how does that play out in comparison to natural gas?

Natural gas is still the best solution IMHO. Wind and solar are not capable of doing the job IMHO. Ask Donald Yergin. He has common sense too. See my new topic. 

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 9/13/2020 at 9:48 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

Well I have to speak up for economic history. Ricardo was the first economist to say it in his work on comparative advantage in 1817. So it hasn't been all downhill since then. 

I am well aware of the theory of comparative advantage. Learnt about it when I was 15 years old. Like all theories, it does not stack up in practise. Only works for a while. You have to sell the farm to make it work, and there are only so many farms to sell?

 

[Wombat + 1,028]

I think this is relevant:

read://https_oilprice.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Foilprice.com%2FAlternative-Energy%2FRenewable-Energy%2FRenewable-Energy-Continues-To-Eat-Away-At-Fossil-Fuel-Dominance.html

[Joel Martin + 4]

I have an interest in power generation like most people. Efficiency, cost and means of production, and storage all concern me. I generally support "all-of-the-above" when it comes to energy for our future needs.

[Joel Martin + 4]

11 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

The USA is not even 100% electrified (many remote areas do not have grid access) let alone 100% electric (many devices run directly from fuels).

 

The goal of 100% electrification is in my opinion stupid. Because some homesteader decides to put down roots in a very remote area we should not feel obligated to run the power grid there.

[Dave Gilmour + 20]

On 8/13/2020 at 5:20 PM, Meredith Poor said:

"Complete ...bullshit”

Lol, how are you gonna fly an electric plane hahaha with 500 passengers from LA to Bangkok hahhaha.

 

what an utter crap post!

[Meredith Poor + 895]

3 hours ago, Dave Gilmour said:

Lol, how are you gonna fly an electric plane hahaha with 500 passengers from LA to Bangkok hahhaha.

 

what an utter crap post!

Definitely a newbie. Stick around awhile.

[Bob D + 562]

On 9/4/2020 at 9:35 PM, Meredith Poor said:

Depends on what you're including in the 'cost'. It also depends on the time scale. My idea of 'expensive' energy is collecting firewood for heating one's home. What is the BTU yield per work-hour for that?

Does anyone ever include the cost of tax incentives??

Land   Right of Way  Grid connection  Renewable Asset  Tax Benefits

How does this total cost compare to existing produced power??    

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 9/11/2020 at 3:26 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

In the US that other piddly stuff adds up to way more than oil or coal. Natural gas is the last fossil standing for electricity and its days for electricity are numbered on the order of two decades.

Indeed. The reason "why" should become apparent to all next week. Tesla Battery Day will be watershed moment IMHO.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

10 hours ago, Wombat said:

Indeed. The reason "why" should become apparent to all next week. Tesla Battery Day will be watershed moment IMHO.

I'd put my money on the high probability that you and Jay will tell us it's a watershed moment, but that it will in fact be a far stretch of the definition.

We've discussed this before.  It is probably going to be nothing more than a showcasing event of Tesla bring much of the battery production in-house.  That does not a watershed moment make, although you guys will no doubt tell us different.

Elon may also discuss a promising future breakthrough that may or may not come to fruition.

Don't get me wrong, I look forward to the day when EVs make total sense and I have one in my driveway.

[pfarley@bigpond.net.au + 42]

On 8/16/2020 at 12:01 PM, KeyboardWarrior said:

Some gen IV technology should have no issues reaching 60% efficiency. I mean it’s not going to be all of them, but it should be noted. 

Don’t forget about supercritical coal either. 50%.

Perhaps you might learn a bit of thermodynamics and discover that that statement is as they say in England "Bollocks". The 60% efficiency figures for CCGT plants are measured at air inlet temperatures of 15 C sea level and full load. On a hot humid day at average US elevations and 80% load they can be 50% or worse. There is no supercritical coal plant anywhere in the world that reaches 50% the best ultrasupercritical plants are about 46%

[specinho + 468]

On 8/16/2020 at 1:05 AM, Meredith Poor said:

"In addition, today’s heavy-duty gas turbines, in combined-cycle mode, are more than 60-percent fuel efficient,

 

Thank you for the sharing.

If the fuel efficiency that you mentioned about gas turbines is represented by average capacity factor in both charts, not sure if it is correct to deduce that coal is having close to 60% efficiency also??

If a plant could achieve 78% efficiency rate at Prairie State, they could probably teach others how they produce environmentally friendly coal energy out of it, or sell their technology, or no??

Soot, CO2, could be remediated easily nowadays, are they not? Ash could be turned into organic fertilizer? Coal is, after all, from plants, no? For such a low price, abundant and efficient energy source, why are we having such an urge to phase it out??  

If climate change is our concern.......... the number of population, amount of energy we burn caused by drastic increment of this huge sum, should be our utmost focus, or no?  Coal might be just a secondhand vegan (energy source) that you might hate or love........

This brings to another attention on misconception raised in a forum some times ago....... i.e eugenic vs population control (video by Tom N) vs rise of indians and the mess up of whole functioning systems into lower par, lower quality and probably malfunctioning..... Would like to share something here:

quote a definition from google:"Eugenics is the practice or advocacy of improving the human species by selectively mating people with specific desirable hereditary traits. It aims to reduce human suffering by “breeding out” disease, disabilities and so-called undesirable characteristics from the human population."........ If I'm someone rich, I want my breeds to sustain and be beneficial to the world for a long time. I hence, choose good characteristics to breed with so that my child/children will be of desirable characteristics. Less family or social issues etc...... It has been a common pratice by many people except city dwellers (who eye only money/wealth and social status except good character), no?

 

There might be nothing wrong with this concept. But, the misinterpretation of it becomes "population control"... which is a mixed up of concepts, probably....... One is personal matter, another is generic matter........ or no? 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 9/2/2020 at 11:37 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

The new solar all comes with storage so your concerns are now moot. i'm sure it won't be easy for you guys but you will need to wrap your head around the concept that battery storage is now standard and it makes solar and wind reliable dispatchable generation. Your old arguments about intermittency are now incorrect and irrelevant.

The round trip efficiency is about 90% for a battery onsite behind the inverter. DC to DC

Do you have any references to back up your statement? 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 9/14/2020 at 8:01 PM, Enthalpic said:

The USA is not even 100% electrified (many remote areas do not have grid access) let alone 100% electric (many devices run directly from fuels).

 

So, maybe 1% of the U.S. population is not wired in.  

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

So, maybe 1% of the U.S. population is not wired in.  

Doubtful if you include Alaska.

A large amount of Canada has limited access to power.

Edit: population yes, land, no.

Edited September 21, 2020 by Enthalpic

[ronwagn + 6,290]

3.27 million without power?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_states_and_territories_of_the_United_States_by_population

 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

3 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Do you have any references to back up your statement? 

From 3 posts after the one you quoted:

Lithium-ion batteries have a 95% round trip direct current efficiency, falling to 85% when the current is converted to alternating current for the grid. They have a 10-20 year lifespan, depending on use.

https://www.world-nuclear.org/information-library/current-and-future-generation/electricity-and-energy-storage.aspx

[Human extinction 0]

Abrupt irreversible climate change. Starvation. War. Pandemic. Methane released from ocean floor. Anoxic ocean event. Hydrogen sulfide gas kill 99% of all living organisms on the earth. So all the bullshit about power is meaningless.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

18 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Lithium-ion batteries have a 95% round trip direct current efficiency

Mr. McKinsey:

Is there enough lithium to produce these giant batteries?

Thanks.

[NickW + 2,714]

35 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Mr. McKinsey:

Is there enough lithium to produce these giant batteries?

Thanks.

For stationary applications they don't need to be Lithium. Infact I'd prefer to see Lithium focused on transport. 

Sodium battery development is coming along nicely. There is about 12Kg of that in every m3 of seawater....