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On 8/17/2020 at 6:08 PM, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Absurd? Yes, but so is the slavery defense. The reparation should concern people who today hold privileged positions in a society that was built by involuntary contribution of those tortured and worked to death, and who continue to oppress their descendants. The profit of the first group is ongoing and real, and the oppression and suffering of the second group is ongoing and real, so yes, reparations are entirely appropriate.

Being white and one of the millions of the white working class for the past 45 years 

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It's really rich that a CCP operative like @Yoshiro Kamamura lectures Americans about slavery. Let's compare and contrast to the ongoing slavery in China shall we? Economic slavery, where poor rural workers from outlying districts come to the big cities, to be treated like virtual illegal immigrants in their own country! Without the proper papers, they are subject to the whims of the police and their employers. They're not allowed to own property in the "host" cities so are perpetually relegated to second hand citizen status. They can be arrested at any time for real or imaginary crimes, which leads to political slavery, see next paragraph. 

But then there's the real slavery, where political prisoners such as the Uyghurs and Their forced labor across China as part of a "reeducation plan". They aren't paid, they are fed poorly, clothed maybe, and get to work for free to maybe avoid the beatings. But yeah, America bad for imagined crimes from 400 years ago, and let's not look at what China is doing TODAY!

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VP candidate Harris has both slave owner and slave ancestor, in Jamaica. Does she have any problem to be where she is now even if she is a woman of color? Or because she was bragging that she is white and have a slave owner ancestor?

https://www.politifact.com/article/2020/aug/14/looking-claims-kamala-harris-descendant-slave-owne/

If you have health and  are not actively looking for a job, should you feel ashamed that you have hard working ancestors that contributed to US history without the right to vote or you should feel ashamed that you have the right to vote but not feel like to work and using your ancestor as an excuse?

Lots of Indians are both black and immigrants but they didn't have problem with their careers because of their skin color. If you advocate for equality, then don't ask for any reparation. By asking for reparation, you accepted that you are not created equal no matter of you try hard or not. Many people are born with disability/cancer but they refused to accept that and keep working to feel they are equal.They earn lots of respect no matter of their skin color.

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As usual, placing present day values and morals on events which happened centuries ago is an exercise in ignorance.

Furthermore, there are two schools of thought in the Christian arena; Catholic and Protestant. To claim that the actions of the Pope is representative of Christians, as a whole, is inaccurate.

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9 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

As usual, placing present day values and morals on events which happened centuries ago is an exercise in ignorance.

Furthermore, there are two schools of thought in the Christian arena; Catholic and Protestant. To claim that the actions of the Pope is representative of Christians, as a whole, is inaccurate.

See my posts above. Multiple popes condemned slavery in the strongest terms. What @Yoshiro Kamamurasaid was patently untrue. Not sure what CCP training camp he got that nugget from, but it's historically and hysterically inaccurate. I was trained by Jesuits, we learned this all in school. 

Source for my quotes above

 

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1 hour ago, Ward Smith said:

See my posts above. Multiple popes condemned slavery in the strongest terms. What @Yoshiro Kamamurasaid was patently untrue. Not sure what CCP training camp he got that nugget from, but it's historically and hysterically inaccurate. I was trained by Jesuits, we learned this all in school. 

Source for my quotes above

 

@Ward Smith
 

Do these comments from Yoshi surprise you? His grasp of history is tenuous at best. Possible a ‘woke’ version...🤔

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7 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

merica bad for imagined crimes from 400 years ago, and let's not look at what China is doing TODAY

America has not been a country for even close to 400 years! Where does this number come from? We see it all the time but it is so inaccurate as to be laughable!

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4 minutes ago, Douglas Buckland said:

America has not been a country for even close to 400 years! Where does this number come from? We see it all the time but it is so inaccurate as to be laughable!

One can always ask www.history.com  Outsiders may not understand or care about when the Declaration of Independence was signed.

THIS DAY IN HISTORY

(excerpt)

On August 20, 1619, “20 and odd” Angolans, kidnapped by the Portuguese, arrive in the British colony of Virginia and are then bought by English colonists. The arrival of the enslaved Africans in the New World marks a beginning of two and a half centuries of slavery in North America.

 

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(edited)

22 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

One can always ask www.history.com  Outsiders may not understand or care about when the Declaration of Independence was signed.

THIS DAY IN HISTORY

(excerpt)

On August 20, 1619, “20 and odd” Angolans, kidnapped by the Portuguese, arrive in the British colony of Virginia and are then bought by English colonists. The arrival of the enslaved Africans in the New World marks a beginning of two and a half centuries of slavery in North America.

 

Okay, but from 20 August 1619 until the signing of the Paris Treaty (ending the Revolutionary War) on 3 September 1783, this would have been slavery by the English, in their colony!

Edited by Douglas Buckland
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Slavery, as an institution in the United States, could only have existed from when the Treaty of Paris was signed until the Emancipation Proclamation was signed by Lincoln, 1783-1862.

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1 hour ago, Douglas Buckland said:

Slavery, as an institution in the United States, could only have existed from when the Treaty of Paris was signed until the Emancipation Proclamation was signed by Lincoln, 1783-1862.

I've already checked your family name and mine.  Our ancestors did not own slaves.  But being as to how I am a WOKE person, it doesn't matter if our ancestors owned slaves.  We are both fairly white, or white enough, and therefore we are responsible for at least 12 families of slaves each.  1 slave family = $5,000 x 12 = $60,000.  Send your check made out to me and I'll see that it goes to the right place.  😎

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Ward Smith - Unable to muster any arguments, oblivious of the historical facts, you can only resort to ad hominem attacks. You deserve your president. 

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(edited)

"Today, the average white family has roughly 10 times the amount of wealth as the average Black family. White college graduates have over seven times more wealth than Black college graduates. Making the American Dream an equitable reality demands the same U.S. government that denied wealth to Blacks restore that deferred wealth through reparations to their descendants in the form of individual cash payments in the amount that will close the Black-white racial wealth divide. Additionally, reparations should come in the form of wealth-building opportunities that address racial disparities in education, housing, and business ownership.In 1860, over $3 billion was the value assigned to the physical bodies of enslaved Black Americans to be used as free labor and production. This was more money than was invested in factories and railroads combined. In 1861, the value placed on cotton produced by enslaved Blacks was $250 million. Slavery enriched white slave owners and their descendants, and it fueled the country’s economy while suppressing wealth building for the enslaved. The United States has yet to compensate descendants of enslaved Black Americans for their labor. Nor has the federal government atoned for the lost equity from anti-Black housing, transportation, and business policy. Slavery, Jim Crow segregation, anti-Black practices like redlining, and other discriminatory public policies in criminal justice and education have robbed Black Americans of the opportunities to build wealth (defined as assets minus debt) afforded to their white peers.Bootstrapping isn’t going to erase racial wealth divides. As economists William “Sandy” Darity and Darrick Hamilton point out in their 2018 report, What We Get Wrong About Closing the Wealth Gap, “Blacks cannot close the racial wealth gap by changing their individual behavior –i.e. by assuming more ‘personal responsibility’ or acquiring the portfolio management insights associated with ‘[financial] literacy.’” In fact, white high school dropouts have more wealth than Black college graduates."

https://www.brookings.edu/policy2020/bigideas/why-we-need-reparations-for-black-americans/

Edited by Yoshiro Kamamura

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8 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Ward Smith - Unable to muster any arguments, oblivious of the historical facts, you can only resort to ad hominem attacks. You deserve your president. 

Lol, you fall on your head? I mustered arguments and documented same. That's better than you have shown here. Which part of quoting from multiple popes to refute your specious claim that the Catholics supported slavery did you not understand? See this is how argumentation works, you make an unsupported claim and I refute it with documentation, hence destroying your argument. That's ad hominem to you? Better peruse a dictionary

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5 hours ago, Yoshiro Kamamura said:

Slavery, Jim Crow segregation, anti-Black practices like redlining, and other discriminatory public policies in criminal justice and education have robbed Black Americans of the opportunities to build wealth (defined as assets minus debt) afforded to their white peers.Bootstrapping isn’t going to erase racial wealth divides. As economists William “Sandy” Darity and Darrick Hamilton point out in their 2018 report, What We Get Wrong About Closing the Wealth Gap, “Blacks cannot close the racial wealth gap by changing their individual behavior –i.e. by assuming more ‘personal responsibility’ or acquiring the portfolio management insights associated with ‘[financial] literacy.’” In fact, white high school dropouts have more wealth than Black college graduates

Slavery, Jim crow laws and red lining were all practices of the Democratic Party. However, there rest of the diatribe is hogwash. Jim Crow laws were exclusive to the South, so to analyze the data you need to correct for those blacks living in the north, not under those conditions. 

But let's cut to the chase shall we? Darity and Hamilton (I haven't looked them up but I'll bet sight unseen they're white), are just the tip of the iceberg of the perpetually persecuted people of color industry. As long as data can be tortured to confess to crimes, crimes will be allocated to whomever. Virtually every university in the country has a professor of "black studies" collecting big bucks to pretend they're personally downtrodden (to my certain knowledge they are all black). Imagine me going to a university and demanding a job as professor of white studies? Or imagine me wasting my time getting a black studies degree, then trying to go out and get a job teaching black studies as an entitled white man? Hence the authors you quoted had the good sense to get economics degrees, rather than Ebonics degrees. 

To state as these authors do, that "personal responsibly" won't make an individual better off? Utter hogwash. The problem of all gross statistical measures such as "wealth gap" is that any and all information gets trampled. Even the "wealth gap" compares individual human tax filers with corporations filing taxes. It is an aberration of the IRS system that sub chapter S corporations appear as individual filings. The same goes for LLC and proprietors. I personally know individuals who are shareholders of Sub S corporations who basically earn $80k per year, but pay taxes on the corporation that make it appear they are earning Millions per year. The whole structure was to save taxes, not to give "economists" false information to make sweeping generalizations about.  The vaunted earned income credit loophole @Douglas Bucklandtalks about elsewhere means that multi billion dollar Wall Street firms "appear" to be individual filers to IRS statistics. Wealth gap indeed. 

Meanwhile, instead of telling my children of color that personal responsibility is meaningless, I hammered it into them. They're not stupid enough to stop trying just because someone else might have it better, they're fully aware it's all on their shoulders, whether they succeed or fail in life. That in fact is how it SHOULD be. Anything else, and anyone saying otherwise is so full of HORSESHT that their eyes must be brown. 

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On 8/19/2020 at 9:35 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

As usual, placing present day values and morals on events which happened centuries ago is an exercise in ignorance.

Furthermore, there are two schools of thought in the Christian arena; Catholic and Protestant. To claim that the actions of the Pope is representative of Christians, as a whole, is inaccurate.

Especially a socialist Pope who has sold out Chinese Christians to Emperor for Life Xi. 

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On 8/19/2020 at 11:24 PM, Douglas Buckland said:

@Ward Smith
 

Do these comments from Yoshi surprise you? His grasp of history is tenuous at best. Possible a ‘woke’ version...🤔

I am sure he is good at the communist version of the history of China. 

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On 8/20/2020 at 2:16 AM, Douglas Buckland said:

America has not been a country for even close to 400 years! Where does this number come from? We see it all the time but it is so inaccurate as to be laughable!

https://www.oldest.org/geography/cities-florida/#:~:text=Not only is St. Augustine the oldest city,who became the first colonial governor of Florida. A Spanish country far before that. 

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On 8/20/2020 at 2:24 AM, Dan Warnick said:

One can always ask www.history.com  Outsiders may not understand or care about when the Declaration of Independence was signed.

THIS DAY IN HISTORY

(excerpt)

On August 20, 1619, “20 and odd” Angolans, kidnapped by the Portuguese, arrive in the British colony of Virginia and are then bought by English colonists. The arrival of the enslaved Africans in the New World marks a beginning of two and a half centuries of slavery in North America.

 

https://www.oldest.org/geography/cities-florida/#:~:text=Not only is St. Augustine the oldest city,who became the first colonial governor of Florida.

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On 8/20/2020 at 4:14 AM, Dan Warnick said:

I've already checked your family name and mine.  Our ancestors did not own slaves.  But being as to how I am a WOKE person, it doesn't matter if our ancestors owned slaves.  We are both fairly white, or white enough, and therefore we are responsible for at least 12 families of slaves each.  1 slave family = $5,000 x 12 = $60,000.  Send your check made out to me and I'll see that it goes to the right place.  😎

Fortunately I am 1% African so I am exempt by virtue of the one drop of blood rule. 

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On 8/21/2020 at 10:49 AM, Ward Smith said:

Lol, you fall on your head? I mustered arguments and documented same. That's better than you have shown here. Which part of quoting from multiple popes to refute your specious claim that the Catholics supported slavery did you not understand? See this is how argumentation works, you make an unsupported claim and I refute it with documentation, hence destroying your argument. That's ad hominem to you? Better peruse a dictionary

Just mute the Chicom!

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22 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Fortunately I am 1% African so I am exempt by virtue of the one drop of blood rule. 

You get a check!  

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