ronwagn + 6,290 September 1, 2020 14 hours ago, Wombat said: Coal may be convenient Ron, but not as cheap as you think. Australia and Indonesia are the 2 largest coal exporters on the planet (about 500m tonnes/annum each), but at current prices, coal mining not profitable. Australian coal has much higher heat content than Indonesian coal but Indonesian currency far weaker than ours. However, Indonesia has over 300m people, and are therefore starting to use their coal themselves, same with their oil and gas. Coal is still cheaper than LNG, but not as cheap as renewables plus batteries anymore. If u google "NEP India", it should give u some idea where they heading. I respect your opinion and will keep an eye on the realities. I won't really believe it until I see it happen over time. I am all for replacing coal unless it can be used more safely with waste disposal or use etc. I will not be in my present body when this situation changes substantially. Until then I will hope for natural gas to win out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_India A similar graph is seen here. Propane is widely used also. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 September 1, 2020 15 hours ago, Wombat said: Sorry, NEP = "National Education Policy"! I was looking for National Electricity Policy! I know they want more coal, and a bit of LNG, but they really pushing renewables too. I will see what I can find and get back 2u Electricity is only one component of national energy policy though. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV September 1, 2020 7 hours ago, ronwagn said: I respect your opinion and will keep an eye on the realities. I won't really believe it until I see it happen over time. I am all for replacing coal unless it can be used more safely with waste disposal or use etc. I will not be in my present body when this situation changes substantially. Until then I will hope for natural gas to win out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_India A similar graph is seen here. Propane is widely used also. Thanks Ron, I respect your opinion too, you may be surprised to hear that I am invested in an Australian LNG company, and have been invested in oil & gas for over a decade. I might be an environmentalist, but I am also a realist and am interested in what will actually work when it comes to CO2 emissions. I mean what will work not just economically, but politically as well. I believe that LNG has a big role to play in the decarbonisation process, however, it looks as though that role will become superfluous faster than any of us seem to realise. Anyways, getting back to the use of coal in India and China, I would simply point out that China is very rich in coal, not so for India. I expect mercantilist China to drive electric vehicles, fuelled by mainly their own coal, even though that emits more CO2 than ICE cars, simply because they do not want to import anything if they can avoid it, including oil and LNG. India is a different story, however the motivation is the same, energy independence. Only way they can get it is through renewables. The moment I can buy a Tesla home battery for less than $500/kwh is the moment I jump ship, because LNG will be virtually worthless. It may be used for home heating for a while, and get used more and more for shipping, but as for land-based transport or electricity generation, it will be game over. The Chinese can take their coal and shove it where the Sun don't shine, the West will have the cheapest, cleanest, and most secure energy systems on the planet within 3 years. The cost threshold has already arrived, not it is just a matter of implementation. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 September 1, 2020 7 hours ago, Wombat said: Thanks Ron, I respect your opinion too, you may be surprised to hear that I am invested in an Australian LNG company. I might be an environmentalist, but I am also a realist ... the West will have the cheapest, cleanest, and most secure energy systems on the planet within 3 years. The cost threshold has already arrived, not it is just a matter of implementation. 😂😆🧐 realist... yea 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW September 1, 2020 17 hours ago, ronwagn said: I respect your opinion and will keep an eye on the realities. I won't really believe it until I see it happen over time. I am all for replacing coal unless it can be used more safely with waste disposal or use etc. I will not be in my present body when this situation changes substantially. Until then I will hope for natural gas to win out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy_in_India A similar graph is seen here. Propane is widely used also. Perhaps use something a bit more up to date. This has 2019 data on it. Coal has fallen from 66 to about 60%. other renewables have risen from <1% to >6% in 7 years. Gas has risen from 5 to 8% https://www.statista.com/statistics/265612/primary-energy-consumption-in-china-by-fuel-type-in-oil-equivalent/#:~:text=The statistic shows China's primary energy consumption in,11.1 exajoules. China's energy consumption levels are Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 September 1, 2020 6 hours ago, NickW said: Perhaps use something a bit more up to date. This has 2019 data on it. Coal has fallen from 66 to about 60%. other renewables have risen from <1% to >6% in 7 years. Gas has risen from 5 to 8% https://www.statista.com/statistics/265612/primary-energy-consumption-in-china-by-fuel-type-in-oil-equivalent/#:~:text=The statistic shows China's primary energy consumption in,11.1 exajoules. China's energy consumption levels are I think you are the one who needs to keep up to date. I am starting a new topic on China and coal. Please watch for it. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 September 2, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, ronwagn said: I think you are the one who needs to keep up to date. I am starting a new topic on China and coal. Please watch for it. You are a load of laughs! You use data that is clearly indicated to be 8 years old but undaunted you accuse others, who are using the most recent year data, of needing to stay up to date! Thanks for the comic relief, been a long day, I needed the laugh. Edited September 2, 2020 by Jay McKinsey 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW September 2, 2020 8 hours ago, ronwagn said: I think you are the one who needs to keep up to date. I am starting a new topic on China and coal. Please watch for it. You posted a chart on Chinese energy for reference which was for 2012. I posted a link which showed the figures for 2018 & 19. I know this is Oil Price .Com but it would appear 2018 & 19 are more recent than 2012. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 September 2, 2020 12 minutes ago, NickW said: You posted a chart on Chinese energy for reference which was for 2012. I posted a link which showed the figures for 2018 & 19. I know this is Oil Price .Com but it would appear 2018 & 19 are more recent than 2012. I've been through this with Ron and his use of old data just last week and the sad thing is that it appears he thinks the data is current because it is currently being shown on the Wikipedia page. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: I've been through this with Ron and his use of old data just last week and the sad thing is that it appears he thinks the data is current because it is currently being shown on the Wikipedia page. To be fair to Wiki they state clearly the year it applies to. I used it to illustrate the changes in consumption share for coal / renewables and gas. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW September 2, 2020 10 hours ago, ronwagn said: I think you are the one who needs to keep up to date. I am starting a new topic on China and coal. Please watch for it. This will help. According to this in 2019 coal consumption in China fell to 57.7% of primary energy usage. https://www.nasdaq.com/articles/coals-share-of-china-energy-mix-falls-in-2019-but-consumption-still-rising-2020-02-27 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 September 2, 2020 (edited) 14 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: I've been through this with Ron and his use of old data just last week and the sad thing is that it appears he thinks the data is current because it is currently being shown on the Wikipedia page. I was referring to a new topic I posted. So look at that. Here is one for you Jay. Another wind farm project trying to get supporters on Facebook in my area. Unanimous and strong no thanks from about 24 people in my area! Rolling Farms Wind Project Sponsored · Paid for by Tradewind Energy · Now is the time to welcome the benefits of local wind development into Christian County. Click ‘learn more’ to find out how you can support Rolling Farms Wind Project. FORM ON FACEBOOK Show Your Support for Wind Energy in Christian County Learn More 3939 28 Comments Like Comment Comments Most Relevant Write a comment... Ron Wagner Still unanimous. NO THANKS!!! Like · Reply · 1m Joe Mudra The one thing people don’t know is the wind generators are not cost efficient without a government subsidy. Where does government money come from? Me and you via OUR TAXES! Then they only last 3to 5 years before an overhaul is needed. 1 Like · Reply · 1h Pam Blazer I hate seeing/hearing them ANYWHERE!!! 1 Like · Reply · 1h Joe Mudra Don’t forget the millions of birds they chop up every year. 1 Like · Reply · 1h Jarrod McClimans Hell no! I'm from up north originally, and they are all over, big eye sore, among all kinds of other reasonings. Nuclear power is the way! Like · Reply · 3h · Edited 1 Reply Bryan Gooden I'd say it's up to the landowner. If they want it, it's their land. 3 Like · Reply · 3h 1 Reply Julie Perona Go away you only want to pad your pockets. How would you like to look out your window and see these huge eyesores. Then all of the medical issues that could come from them. Like · Reply · 2h · Edited Cindy Norris I will NEVER Support Rolling Farms Wind!!!!!!!! GO AWAY and take Your STUPID Wind mills with you!!!!! Like · Reply · 3h David Mendenhall It will be a huge mistake Like · Reply · 3h Bryan Gooden Everybody who is anti-wind because you think they cause cancer, raise your hand. Like · Reply · 3h Heather Correll Vickery WE DONT WANT WIND FARMS! Like · Reply · 2h Christopher Menossi We don’t want to see any of these 1 Like · Reply · 4h Kevin Collier JM is absolutely right 1 Like · Reply · 3h Heather Correll Vickery We don't want this in Christian county 5 Like · Reply · 4h Cathy Harner Not a chance! 3 Like · Reply · 4h Tina Marie NO WE DON'T WANT THIS!!! 1 Like · Reply · 3h Lisa Law Merrifield Not a chance 3 Like · Reply · 4h Donia Jones NO!!!! 2 Like · Reply · 4h Davenity Waters Stelzriede No 1 Like · Reply · 30m Jana Chamness Go away!!!! 3 Like · Reply · 4h Matt Riggs 1 Like · Reply · 26m Jana Chamness No thanks. 3 Like · Reply · 4h Most Relevant is selected, so some comments may have been filtered out. Edited September 2, 2020 by ronwagn Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 September 2, 2020 23 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said: You are a load of laughs! You use data that is clearly indicated to be 8 years old but undaunted you accuse others, who are using the most recent year data, of needing to stay up to date! Thanks for the comic relief, been a long day, I needed the laugh. https://tradingeconomics.com/china/imports-of-coal The next thing I expect to hear from you is that China just had a 100% increase in wind and solar power to 2%. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 September 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, ronwagn said: https://tradingeconomics.com/china/imports-of-coal The next thing I expect to hear from you is that China just had a 100% increase in wind and solar power to 2%. I congratulate you on finally finding current data, very refreshing. However I have no idea what point you are trying to make. It appears their coal imports are at their 10 year average, so what? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 September 2, 2020 46 minutes ago, ronwagn said: I was referring to a new topic I posted. So look at that. Here is one for you Jay. Another wind farm project trying to get supporters on Facebook in my area. Unanimous and strong no thanks from about 24 people in my area! Rolling Farms Wind Project Sponsored · Paid for by Tradewind Energy · Now is the time to welcome the benefits of local wind development into Christian County. Click ‘learn more’ to find out how you can support Rolling Farms Wind Project. FORM ON FACEBOOK Show Your Support for Wind Energy in Christian County Learn More 3939 28 Comments Like Comment Comments Most Relevant Write a comment... Ron Wagner Still unanimous. NO THANKS!!! Like · Reply · 1m Joe Mudra The one thing people don’t know is the wind generators are not cost efficient without a government subsidy. Where does government money come from? Me and you via OUR TAXES! Then they only last 3to 5 years before an overhaul is needed. 1 Like · Reply · 1h Pam Blazer I hate seeing/hearing them ANYWHERE!!! 1 Like · Reply · 1h Joe Mudra Don’t forget the millions of birds they chop up every year. 1 Like · Reply · 1h Jarrod McClimans Hell no! I'm from up north originally, and they are all over, big eye sore, among all kinds of other reasonings. Nuclear power is the way! Like · Reply · 3h · Edited 1 Reply Bryan Gooden I'd say it's up to the landowner. If they want it, it's their land. 3 Like · Reply · 3h 1 Reply Julie Perona Go away you only want to pad your pockets. How would you like to look out your window and see these huge eyesores. Then all of the medical issues that could come from them. Like · Reply · 2h · Edited Cindy Norris I will NEVER Support Rolling Farms Wind!!!!!!!! GO AWAY and take Your STUPID Wind mills with you!!!!! Like · Reply · 3h David Mendenhall It will be a huge mistake Like · Reply · 3h Bryan Gooden Everybody who is anti-wind because you think they cause cancer, raise your hand. Like · Reply · 3h Heather Correll Vickery WE DONT WANT WIND FARMS! Like · Reply · 2h Christopher Menossi We don’t want to see any of these 1 Like · Reply · 4h Kevin Collier JM is absolutely right 1 Like · Reply · 3h Heather Correll Vickery We don't want this in Christian county 5 Like · Reply · 4h Cathy Harner Not a chance! 3 Like · Reply · 4h Tina Marie NO WE DON'T WANT THIS!!! 1 Like · Reply · 3h Lisa Law Merrifield Not a chance 3 Like · Reply · 4h Donia Jones NO!!!! 2 Like · Reply · 4h Davenity Waters Stelzriede No 1 Like · Reply · 30m Jana Chamness Go away!!!! 3 Like · Reply · 4h Matt Riggs 1 Like · Reply · 26m Jana Chamness No thanks. 3 Like · Reply · 4h Most Relevant is selected, so some comments may have been filtered out. Who cares? Land owners should have a right to put turbines on their land if they want to. Battle them all you want I suspect you are going to lose. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 September 2, 2020 I agree with landowners rights and public right of way with public approval. You seem not to give a damn about what the general public wants though. Strangely Demoncrats don't want the public to benefit from natural gas pipelines in New England. If the public is paying subsidies they should know about it too. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ronwagn + 6,290 September 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said: I congratulate you on finally finding current data, very refreshing. However I have no idea what point you are trying to make. It appears their coal imports are at their 10 year average, so what? As I said, it was in my new topic. You are a dense one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 September 3, 2020 39 minutes ago, ronwagn said: I agree with landowners rights and public right of way with public approval. You seem not to give a damn about what the general public wants though. Strangely Demoncrats don't want the public to benefit from natural gas pipelines in New England. If the public is paying subsidies they should know about it too. You have to choose sides, either the landowners get the way or your supposed general public. Which one is it? Democrats don't want a bunch of stranded assets in New England. They will be powering with off-shore wind. Yes the public should know about subsidies and ? Are you claiming that there are unknown subsidies for fossil fuel perhaps? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW September 4, 2020 On 9/3/2020 at 12:50 AM, ronwagn said: I agree with landowners rights and public right of way with public approval. You seem not to give a damn about what the general public wants though. Strangely Demoncrats don't want the public to benefit from natural gas pipelines in New England. If the public is paying subsidies they should know about it too. Assuming there are reasonably planning controls like distancing which protects residents from noise, vibration and flicker then I don't see what the issue is. if US law is anything like UK law visual impact is not a nuisance. The dis-amenity arguments to visual impact are open to debate. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
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