Portuguese government confirms world record solar price of $0.01316/kWh

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 9/3/2020 at 10:03 AM, markslawson said:

Wombat - you don't seem to understand the point being made. The original point was that the renewable power plants were lobbying ultra-low supply tenders. As I noted the actual supply price has little to do with the guaranteed minimum price - the bid price being quoted. I made no attempt to compare gas plant bids, so your comment simply isn't relevant.   

The point I believe Mark, is that this project will replace a gas peaker plant, because the actual supply price is lower. The same is already beginning to happen in USA as well. This is the usual narrative:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/judeclemente/2017/12/31/natural-gas-is-the-flexibility-needed-for-more-wind-and-solar/#4d44e1da5777

This is what you rarely hear:

https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2019/08/29/indiana-gas-plant-spurned-wind-solar-and-storage-respond/

Personally, I believe both headlines make a lot of sense, depending on the individual situation.

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 9/4/2020 at 9:09 PM, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

true to an extent, but there will be a limit because the foundations are dimensioned for a certain size turbine; If turbines keep growing as they are expected then that will require newer foundations as well. 

Not "newer foundations", just "newer areas" to be placed?!?

 

[markslawson + 1,057]

14 hours ago, Wombat said:

The point I believe Mark, is that this project will replace a gas peaker plant, because the actual supply price is lower. The same is already beginning to happen in USA as well. This is the usual narrative:

Looked at the original material again. Gas plants aren't mentioned - or at least not that I could see. Suddenly you start talking about gas plants and then claim my point somehow misses the mark because it doesn't duly acknowledge gas plants. That doesn't make sense. In any case, as you know, both are required. You can run a lot a grid with a lot of renewables on it without conventional plant back up and never mind the cost calculations. Anyway, I'll leave you to your gas plants. 

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 8/28/2020 at 2:46 AM, Jay McKinsey said:

In a press release, it said that 670 MW of power generation capacity was allocated, of which 483 MW went to PV projects linked to storage, while the remaining 177 MW and 10 MW were assigned for projects under the “system compensation” remuneration option and the “contract for difference” regime, respectively. 

It also confirmed that the auction drew the world’s lowest bid for a large-scale PV project at €0.01114 ($0.01316)/kWh, which is slightly lower than the price of €0.0112 revealed by Portuguese financial newspaper during the first day of the procurement exercise, and still lower than the $0.0135/kWh bid submitted by French energy group EDF and China’s JinkoPower in a 2 GW tender held in Abu Dhabi, https://www.pv-magazine.com/2020/08/27/portuguese-government-confirms-world-record-solar-price-of-0-01316-kwh/

G'day Jay, thought you might be interested in this:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Superbattery-Code-Has-Just-Been-Cracked.html

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

15 hours ago, Wombat said:

G'day Jay, thought you might be interested in this:

https://oilprice.com/Energy/Energy-General/The-Superbattery-Code-Has-Just-Been-Cracked.html

G'day Wombat, thanks for the link, let's hope this tech makes it to market.

[Wombat + 1,028]

11 hours ago, Jay McKinsey said:

G'day Wombat, thanks for the link, let's hope this tech makes it to market.

Indeed. By the way, I am interested to hear what you make of the fact that a car battery only costs $150/kwh whereas a home battery costs nearly $1000/kwh? If I could get a few 13kwh Tesla powerwall units at $2000 each, I would immediately go off the grid. I assume it is just profit maximisation, you know, maxing out the area under the supply/demand curve by selling at the highest price possible to the most gullible customers to begin with and then working down the curve, just as Sony does with their Playstations as do the smart phone producers? Or do you think it is just that it is a matter of waiting for the marginal cost of the manufacturing to fall? Perhaps a bit of both? I just feel that the price difference is so extreme that people must be getting ripped off. As though the price depends entirely on what the manufacturer thinks they can get away with based on the price of electricity. Doesn't seem to be any real competition in the market?

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

12 hours ago, Wombat said:

Indeed. By the way, I am interested to hear what you make of the fact that a car battery only costs $150/kwh whereas a home battery costs nearly $1000/kwh? If I could get a few 13kwh Tesla powerwall units at $2000 each, I would immediately go off the grid. I assume it is just profit maximisation, you know, maxing out the area under the supply/demand curve by selling at the highest price possible to the most gullible customers to begin with and then working down the curve, just as Sony does with their Playstations as do the smart phone producers? Or do you think it is just that it is a matter of waiting for the marginal cost of the manufacturing to fall? Perhaps a bit of both? I just feel that the price difference is so extreme that people must be getting ripped off. As though the price depends entirely on what the manufacturer thinks they can get away with based on the price of electricity. Doesn't seem to be any real competition in the market?

My thought is that they are battery constrained and want to make the same profit off of a battery cell whether it goes into a car or a powerwall. 

The $150kwh is around their internal cost, but the $1000 price of powerwall is product price to the market. AFAIK Tesla doesn't sell car batteries to the public at $150kwh. Please correct me if Im wrong.

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

On 8/27/2020 at 10:46 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

These low cost bids are for future additions. They do not exist yet thus they do not help drive down the cost of electricity, yet.

The cost of electricity in Portugal peaked in 2016 and is now slowly decreasing but that decrease will speed up as these new projects come online. Initial investments in renewable were expensive and carried by early adopters. But those investments drove down costs and from here forward the cost of electricity begins to decrease.

Cheaper electricity bills in Portugal in 2020: Lower energy prices

The electricity bill is one of the most costly charges for households in Portugal, but the good news is that the amount to be paid will fall for the third consecutive year. 

https://www.idealista.pt/en/news/financial-advice-portugal/2019/12/02/469-cheaper-electricity-bills-portugal-2020-lower-energy

 

>a monthly saving of 18 cents, Wow, now the portuguese, in a full year will be able To buy a bag of cookies with the money saved from their bills , daaamn

i gonna tell you whats cheap electricity,

Portugal pays 220 Euros for a residential MWh
Ukraine Households pays 38 Euros for a MWh

There's a lot of stuff between the bid price and the real electricity cost at the household, solar farms cost 1 to 1.2 Billion U$D per GW AC, and in portugal you get a capacity factor of around 21% in the sunniest part, thats 4.8 billion GWAC, and without counting maintenance cost, back up or batteries, or the possibility a heavy storm detroys the solar farm,  the end price of electricity will most likely be at 45-50Euros per MWh, without counting transmission cost, in southern California and New Mexico is still ardound 35-40U$D/MWh and is likely the world sunniest part

Unless Global Warming gets in the way and deserts become cloudy and sticky, places like Indonesia Vietnam and South China have less solar potential than the arctic.

Outside Hydro and Geothermal all types of renewable energy are mediocre or need heavy support systems, thats why the only mostly renewable energy country is Island. And Maybe Bhuthan.

Shika-2 ABWR was built in 3.5 years and costed 1.9 billion per GWe, and will last 60 years. 

Anything that's European Union Related is worthy of dismissal, tell me only one thing, not a list, one succesful project since the Dawn of the Euro-

Edited September 16, 2020 by Sebastian Meana