.

[Rob Kramer + 696]

32 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

We have a 78 h.p. Mitsubishi Mirage 3 cylinder that gets fantastic mileage and cost $14,400. It comes with a ten year warranty. We also own a minivan and a very large powerful van. 

https://www.mitsubishicars.com/mirage-g4/2020?cid=paid_search_brand_mirage_bing&&cid=paid_search_national_brand_mirage_bing&KWID=43700053649151763&gclid=3b9046fdfb691918854319af05dfc06a&gclsrc=3p.ds

At one point I had 3 identical 1998 Honda civic hatch backs. 1.5L 5s man. No ac, pwr steering or even radio in one lol the other one had a blasting head unit and 4 speakers lol 3rd was gonna be for show got it all lowered and such . But both my brothers bought one off me for winter cars and my younger brother bought a parts one also lol civic family goals. Think we paid 600$, 750$ 1000$ and 350$ ... keep in mind saftey and parts were at cost so they all went on the road under 1500$ . Now my tuscon is 14' at 89k and may have just been sold to my neighbor for 10k$ . Replaced by a 17 caravan gt at 95k for 16k$. Should last to 2030 just fine . 

For 37k USD you can get alot of cars ... just not from a stealership!

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

36 minutes ago, Jimc said:

Let’s make something very clear to you ignorant souls.,,,,

fracking does NOT contaminate fresh water!!!!

if any of you knew the basic technique of fracking and how a well is configured you would know it’s impossible!!!

fresh water is less than 1000’ feet from the surface 

most formations that are being stimulated by fracking are 5000-10,000 feet from the surface 

the fresh ground water is protected by at least 3 strings of casing and cement!!!

go read a basic primer on how an oil/gas well is drilled before you claim such ridiculous things!!

any “worm” on the floor of a drilling rig knows this you morons!!!

as you spew your green hatred of the oil business..... remember those of us who know how oil is produced and formations are made economically productive by fracking and actually know how it’s done simply laugh our asses off at you idiots!!!

keep it up.....it’s rather amusing!!

Make a list of how many times your technologies have failed.

 

Remember those of us who worked for the ECCC (or EPA) remember all your spills!

 

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 minutes ago, Rob Kramer said:

At one point I had 3 identical 1998 Honda civic hatch backs. 1.5L 5s man. No ac, pwr steering or even radio in one lol the other one had a blasting head unit and 4 speakers lol 3rd was gonna be for show got it all lowered and such . But both my brothers bought one off me for winter cars and my younger brother bought a parts one also lol civic family goals. Think we paid 600$, 750$ 1000$ and 350$ ... keep in mind saftey and parts were at cost so they all went on the road under 1500$ . Now my tuscon is 14' at 89k and may have just been sold to my neighbor for 10k$ . Replaced by a 17 caravan gt at 95k for 16k$. Should last to 2030 just fine . 

For 37k USD you can get alot of cars ... just not from a stealership!

I once found a Rambler American for my brother for $50.00. He drove it for a few years and someone ran into it and made a dent. The gentleman gave him $100 not to report it. He ended up getting a Plymouth Fury and giving the Rambler to my sister. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,194]

1 hour ago, ronwagn said:

I once found a Rambler American for my brother for $50.00. He drove it for a few years and someone ran into it and made a dent. The gentleman gave him $100 not to report it. He ended up getting a Plymouth Fury and giving the Rambler to my sister. 

Diesel Rabbit: Free: Was smoked in and had MASSIve cleaning required.  Ozoned it, pulled carpets up etc which were NASTY!  Took seats to carpet cleaner and they came out ok and then took whole danged car.  $150 bucks later, had a car.  No working power steering, no working alternator.  Had to charge battery every night.  Park on a hill so can manual coast start it.  Running errands on way home was... interesting.  Always carry a tow strap and had to use it several times, but since it is diesel, once it was running, no electricity was required to keep it running. 

But Free.  Drove it for 5 years till head gasket blew and a gigantic cloud of white smoke plumed out the rear on my way home(cracked block and blown piston).  Only had to stop 2 times in last 2 miles to let it cool down before getting home. That car was a Godsend.  Was dirt poor at the time, as in living in a trailer dirt poor without electricity, operating on a generator and water was pumped from a spring dirt poor.  Garbage service?  HAHAHAHA.  Hell no.  Take it to the dump on way to work and save.  And Hell no I was not on food stamps or any other welfare with 3 kids. 

Now you guys should not wonder why I denigrate so called "poor people".  They aren't poor with their cell phones, Jordan sneakers, new clothes, cable TV, and food stamps  The VAST majority are self entitled spoiled babies who never grew up and should be shamed... publicly.  When you can do the paragraphs above?  Then you are poor and I'll help you till the day I die.  Until then, you aren't.  So, every time you drive past the asshole with the hand out sign at the corner exit of the Home Depot while the illegal hard working immigrants in the parking lot ask for work, please roll down your window and tell the self entitled ass at the Home Desperate exit to go sit with the illegals and work.  Better yet, offer him the job of mowing your lawn and other yard work... 1:10 time they will actually accept the job and those guys YOU HELP!  Everyone else?  Mock. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 minutes ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Diesel Rabbit: Free: Was smoked in and had MASSIve cleaning required.  Ozoned it, pulled carpets up etc which were NASTY!  Took seats to carpet cleaner and they came out ok and then took whole danged car.  $150 bucks later, had a car.  No working power steering, no working alternator.  Had to charge battery every night.  Park on a hill so can manual coast start it.  Running errands on way home was... interesting.  Always carry a tow strap and had to use it several times, but since it is diesel, once it was running, no electricity was required to keep it running. 

But Free.  Drove it for 5 years till head gasket blew and a gigantic cloud of white smoke plumed out the rear on my way home(cracked block and blown piston).  Only had to stop 2 times in last 2 miles to let it cool down before getting home. That car was a Godsend.  Was dirt poor at the time, as in living in a trailer dirt poor without electricity, operating on a generator and water was pumped from a spring dirt poor.  Garbage service?  HAHAHAHA.  Hell no.  Take it to the dump on way to work and save.  And Hell no I was not on food stamps or any other welfare with 3 kids. 

Now you guys should not wonder why I denigrate so called "poor people".  They aren't poor with their cell phones, Jordan sneakers, new clothes, cable TV, and food stamps  The VAST majority are self entitled spoiled babies who never grew up and should be shamed... publicly.  When you can do the paragraphs above?  Then you are poor and I'll help you till the day I die.  Until then, you aren't.  So, every time you drive past the asshole with the hand out sign at the corner exit of the Home Depot while the illegal hard working immigrants in the parking lot ask for work, please roll down your window and tell the self entitled ass at the Home Desperate exit to go sit with the illegals and work.  Better yet, offer him the job of mowing your lawn and other yard work... 1:10 time they will actually accept the job and those guys YOU HELP!  Everyone else?  Mock. 

You cracked me up! I thought I was poor at times, but I was a kid. The army got me to age 20 and then I had the GI Bill. My mother gave me her Studebaker Lark which was kind of sissy to me. She had sold her DeSoto with a Firedome V8. I ended up buying a red Ford Falcon in 67 I believe. That was $2,300. I had to borrow the down payment form HFC. 

[JoMack + 549]

The states that ban fracing, like Cuomo did in New York, have little to no oil and gas production.  If any Governor in a producing state, like Texas, banned fracing, the private mineral owners would be in Austin pulling down the capital.  2/3rds of New Mexico has minerals owned by the fed. A large percentage of which is in the San Juan and Permian Basins.  Without oil and gas revenue in New Mexico, the state, which is the 49th poorest in the country would wither and die.   When Obama was in office, he restricted access to the surface estate.  As we know, the mineral owner has access to the surface to develop the minerals. So the oil and gas industry expanded its drill site pad and horizontal drilling exploded since multiple operators used the pad.  So, Obama did the industry a favor without knowing it,  of course.  He raised drilling permits from $800 to $10,000 and the BLM was a bunch of bureaucrats with power that made every bird feather in a pit a crime against nature and fined, fined, fined.  When the BLM arrived the operator just prepared to be shut in for whatever bullshit the agency deemed an incident, such as trash around the pump jack.  

Biden would most certainly ban fracing on federal lands, until he sees the billions of dollars in fees, production revenue and taxes dry up.  The strange thing about all this cry for a ban on fracing is that it is a process the industry uses to extract the oil and gas when the well is being completed.  

Schlumberger or Halliburton, the biggest companies, bring semi-trucks filled with fresh water and sand at the time of the frac.  Depending on the length of the lateral, the lead engineer determines how much sand and water, with a chemical gel is injected into the well.  In the Permian your normal depth for a Delaware well is 8,000 to 9,000'.  The vertical depth is around 5,000' and then the drilling company will kick out and run the lateral out and into the producing interval.  Under spacing rules, the well is perforated, tested, and if the well shows production, a frac will occur.

So, bottom line, if Biden bans fracing, no wells will be drilled since there is no completion without a frac.  The lies and misinformation regarding fracing is a testament to the left-wing drum, drum, drumming that fracing is dangerous and an environmental catastrophe.  The catastrophe, of course, is a Biden presidency, since, by the time he wakes up and takes his mask off, his ban will do some real and costly damage since NM produced 300 million barrels - 2019.  That, is a major hit if banning occurs and wells are temporarily (we hope) abandoned.

[Jimc + 83]

14 hours ago, Enthalpic said:

Make a list of how many times your technologies have failed.

 

Remember those of us who worked for the ECCC (or EPA) remember all your spills!

 

 

If you truly worked for a regulatory agency that over sees oil and gas drilling you would know how a well is drilled and completed and that fracking is not the source of any spill or contamination 

your a fraud if you don’t know this !!

leftist lies and fear mongering has got the best of you

do your home work before you make idiotic claims.....

your embarrassing yourself!!!

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

2 hours ago, Jimc said:

If you truly worked for a regulatory agency that over sees oil and gas drilling you would know how a well is drilled and completed and that fracking is not the source of any spill or contamination 

your a fraud if you don’t know this !!

 

You obviously don't know what you are talking about.

In theory, the stuff doesn't get spilled, in reality it gets spilled.  The materials don't just magically show up on site, get mixed, pressured, injected never to be seen again.  People make mistakes, pipes leak, etc.

I have received bags of proppants, gelling agents, buckets of chemicals from officers for analysis.  All because they ended up somewhere they were not meant to be. If the stuff enters fish bearing water, it undoubtedly harms fish.

Just like the rest of the petroleum industry, unintended shit happens all the time. You are are a liar if you don't admit that.

 

 

[Jimc + 83]

You still don’t get it

these isolated mistakes made by people happens in every industry...duh!

Not just the oil industry.....that’s what the EPA is supposed to do .....go after the violations and fine them for mistakes made!!

 I get that..... I have paid my fair share of fines ....

but to ignorantly claim that the process of fracking inherently contaminates fresh ground water and the whole process of fracking should be banned is intellectually dishonest!!

We have been fracking wells since the 1950’s!! And we have not destroyed the fresh water aquifers!!

many other industry mistakes have hurt the fresh water much more than the oil industry 

since you were at the EPA why don’t you provide some actual proof of contamination....

but I bet you can’t since you didn’t really work there 

it is simply too obvious!!!  LOL !!

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

Just now, Jimc said:

You still don’t get it

these isolated mistakes made by people happens in every industry...duh!

Not just the oil industry.....that’s what the EPA is supposed to do .....go after the violations and fine them for mistakes made!!

 I get that..... I have paid my fair share of fines ....

but to ignorantly claim that the process of fracking inherently contaminates fresh ground water and the whole process of fracking should be banned is intellectually dishonest!!

We have been fracking wells since the 1950’s!! And we have not destroyed the fresh water aquifers!!

many other industry mistakes have hurt the fresh water much more than the oil industry 

since you were at the EPA why don’t you provide some actual proof of contamination....

but I bet you can’t since you didn’t really work there 

it is simply too obvious!!!  LOL !!

That's what I did for a living. So don't say I didn't see pollution related to fracking. You are correct it was related to mistakes / accidents not the actual process.

I didn't work at the EPA.  I'm Canadian, I worked for our equivalent Environment and Climate Change Canada (ECCC)

You are absolutely correct other industries also pollute.  I worked on many of those files too, many more than oil, mostly because unless fish bearing waters were involved Alberta Environment regulated the oil industry, not ECCC. Only when Fisheries Act violations kicked in did we get involved.

 

Feel free to snoop around on what I did.

https://www.canada.ca/en/environment-climate-change/services/environmental-enforcement/notifications.html

 

 

[Jimc + 83]

See the truth comes out 

alberta environment regulates the oil industry not the ECC that’s your background and point of reasoning ...

You very ignorantly stayed 

fracking does NOT hurt the environment

Right...

All oil development hurts the environment, fracking even more so. 

You are literally punching holes in rock formations that separate clean water from contamination and then fracturing the underlying rock and destabilizing the formation as evident by small earthquakes.

Edited Thursday at 05:20 PM by Enthalpic

Fracking does not “punch holes in the rock” LOL

It creates micro fractures at the face of the formation and growth vertically is usually less than a few hundred feet all within the formation limits top and bottom 

fresh water bearing formations are 5000-7000 feet above and are isolated and protected with at least 3 strings of casing and cement 

see your uneducated conclusion is very dangerous.....

you have presented your self as a qualified supporter of banning fracking as a whole on an arrogant but very ignorant conclusion......

this is the danger from all the “armchair quarterbacks” on the left.....your leading authority AOC and her squad have proclaimed themselves as authorities and have greater an agenda that will bankrupt the country!!

see most conservative thinkers would support the idea of better control on industry that really does protect our environment if there is truly a reason for it but when self proclaimed experts like you go spewing hatred and half truths to the general public you do nothing but sow fear so you can have more power!!!

be reasonable in your understanding and don’t make unwarranted claims and more people will listen and agree with reason

protecting the natural resources is the goal for most and those who abuse it should be punished

be intellectual honest and don’t make a process that you know nothing about to be the scapegoat to progress a political agenda!!

by the way those little earth quakes were in Oklahoma and the result of disposing saltwater into a deep formation at extremely high rates 

the regulators shutdown the massive disposal and the mini earthquakes ceased 

see regulatory agencies can work with industry and solve real problems....not fictitious ignorant ideas that are simply a political sound byte!!

in full support of your work protecting the waters and fisheries in Canada

 

[Jan van Eck + 7,558]

14 hours ago, JoMack said:

So, bottom line, if Biden bans fracing, no wells will be drilled since there is no completion without a frac.  The lies and misinformation regarding fracing is a testament to the left-wing drum, drum, drumming that fracing is dangerous and an environmental catastrophe.  The catastrophe, of course, is a Biden presidency, since, by the time he wakes up and takes his mask off, his ban will do some real and costly damage since NM produced 300 million barrels - 2019.  That, is a major hit if banning occurs and wells are temporarily (we hope) abandoned.

I suggest what you overlook is that the ideology of the far left is that of Malthus - the idea that there are too many people and thus the course of action in response is to reduce population. The debate in the far left is as to the mechanism of doing so: you have starvation (famine), pestilence (including both traditional diseases and plagues such as Black Death (bubonic plague), and war of course.  Starvation and pestilence seem to be the selections of choice for the far left.  Now, coming right out and stating that, as a matter of public policy,  famine and death is the party platform, is not really calculated to gain votes. So these guys go in through the back door and declare that the "energy use" is threatening the planet and has to be shut off, in favor of a technology that is unworkable.  Once you get past the veneer, or sheen, of political spin, the real motive is population reduction, by whatever brutal means is available. 

Campaigning against fracing, in parallel with the previous campaign against nuclear power plants, has to be seen in that light.  These are campaigns against the population of the world.  Now, keep in mind that the world population has increased by some 400% since World War One.  Yet that increase has also been addressed with the "green revolution" in agriculture, and advanced technologies in housing construction and transport to dramatically reduce fuel use.  Shutting down fuel use is intended to impoverish populations and, thereby, reduce population - either through demoralization, or starvation, or pestilence. These far leftists have an ideology that specifically includes wanting people to not have children.  So make it as tough as possible, and in the West make it so expensive to raise children, that few will be born.  

How that works in with the collapse of "white" populations and the demographic shifts of mass migration, well, I leave that one to others to explore. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 minute ago, ronwagn said:

 

I agree, @ronwagn

Keep up the good work.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

On 9/4/2020 at 8:12 PM, Jimc said:

Let’s make something very clear to you ignorant souls.,,,,

fracking does NOT contaminate fresh water!!!!

if any of you knew the basic technique of fracking and how a well is configured you would know it’s impossible!!!

fresh water is less than 1000’ feet from the surface 

most formations that are being stimulated by fracking are 5000-10,000 feet from the surface 

the fresh ground water is protected by at least 3 strings of casing and cement!!!

go read a basic primer on how an oil/gas well is drilled before you claim such ridiculous things!!

any “worm” on the floor of a drilling rig knows this you morons!!!

as you spew your green hatred of the oil business..... remember those of us who know how oil is produced and formations are made economically productive by fracking and actually know how it’s done simply laugh our asses off at you idiots!!!

keep it up.....it’s rather amusing!!

The oil industry absolutely pollutes our ground water regardless of the type of well:

Oil industry waste fluids containing benzene and other toxic chemicals have migrated into California’s groundwater through multiple pathways at sites in Kern County, west of Bakersfield, federal experts have discovered.https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/federal-studies-oil-waste-fluid-contaminated-california-groundwater-2019-10-03/

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

On 9/4/2020 at 8:55 AM, Ward Smith said:

Where in my responses did you get that? My point is, has been, and continues to be that your holier than thou shtick won't fly with me, and it's apparently necessary that I point out your hypocrisy multiple times to get thru. 

I forgot about the battery discussion. Had this in my history  was looking for equivalent where they were using lithium ion batteries that weren't behind a paywall and got sidetracked. Even the Li batteries have similar issues. The problem is and always will be current flow. I^2R losses are a thing, a big thing and finding a paper where the current flow is trivial doesn't support the case of using MW battery storage as utility backup. Since battery voltage is so low, the current must be high to move a lot of power in and out. 

Interestingly this isn't my job so unlike certain interlocutors I could name I don't spend that much time here. Five minutes at a time is about it. My 5 minutes is now up. 

Hypocrisy when oil spills are all over the world and burning gasoline in cars causes tremendous air pollution that is quite visible? REE waste is in a few discrete locations around the world. Few have even heard of it. But everyone has experienced oil pollution in some form. For hypocrisy try looking in a mirror while you run away.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

On 9/4/2020 at 5:43 PM, markslawson said:

Jay - I would strongly recommend that you read the material you cite. That paper linked is quite informative about how the companies involved are doing their best to limit flaring. Its a problem of course, but one that can be overcome. Instead of insisting that it all be closed down and everyone starts walking to work, why can't we work with these guys to reduce the problem? The earlier jibe about clean air and water is similarly completely at odds with reality, as is the point about oil dying. As has been pointed out many times on this site and as you simply refuse to acknowledge, even if all the cars were replaced by EVs tomorrow that would still leave freight transport. In the US freight accounts for half of oil consumption and batteries in freight transport are simply impractical. In any case, the market share of EVs remains trivial. Sorry, no death of oil here..      

Doing their "best" is irrelevant. Fracking has increased flaring, end of story. 

Freight transport is about to make a furious transition to electric. 

There were only 2,000 electric trucks on US roads at the end of 2019, but new research from analysts Wood Mackenzie suggest that number will soar to more than 54,000 by 2025.https://thedriven.io/2020/08/14/electric-truck-sales-in-us-predicted-to-soar-to-54000-by-2025/

Mark, you need to prepare yourself because the moment one freight company goes all electric they all will. By that I mean that their total yearly fleet replenishment rate will be made up of electric. Result will be a fully electric freight fleet faster than the consumer fleet.

 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,194]

36 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

The oil industry absolutely pollutes our ground water regardless of the type of well:

Oil industry waste fluids containing benzene and other toxic chemicals have migrated into California’s groundwater through multiple pathways at sites in Kern County, west of Bakersfield, federal experts have discovered.https://biologicaldiversity.org/w/news/press-releases/federal-studies-oil-waste-fluid-contaminated-california-groundwater-2019-10-03/

Do you enjoy making me laugh?

Kern County oil is a mere 400ft below surface in places at same depth as the water table and main pool first discovered was less than 1000ft.  Naturally occurring oil dear  has Benzene etc and if oil is naturally occuring that SHALLOW, then yes, the water will be poisoned... and it has NOTHING to do with said industry.  Let me guess, not one peep about the hundreds of thousand of barrels of oil and GASP!!! Benzene leaking naturally into the ocean off Santa Barbara... Naturally  the idiots writing the article did not have any data for water quality from decades past... yet this ***must*** be a reason from today...  The whopper is that California standards for benzene were just increased and yesterday would not have been a problem.  So, if there is a problem it could have been a failure from many decades past. 

The top whopper of moronacy in that article was Radium is from the oil industry.  It is a natural mineral!  It does not sprout legs and "migrate".  It already existed.  Its a salt naturally occurring just like Barium, another naturally occurring problem child.  Now if you wish to argue for the oil industry naturally cleaning up the environment... Ok

Naturally the idiots want to ban fracking when said occurrences of pollution have not one thing to do with fracking and in fact have everything to do with naturally occurring minerals that had nothing to do with humans. 

Keep posting!  Thanks for the laugh!

Edited September 6, 2020 by footeab@yahoo.com

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

1 hour ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

 

The top whopper of moronacy in that article was Radium is from the oil industry.  It is a natural mineral!  It does not sprout legs and "migrate".  It already existed. 

It is naturally occurring, but it is not evenly distributed, some rock formations contain far more Ra226 than others.  It does not sprout legs but disturbances of those rocks by drilling or mining mobilizes the radium.

Our lab "enforced" Ra 226 under mining regulations (not oil).  I can't recall a single violation for Ra, the tests always come back below the legal limit.  Much more likely to fail for TSS, As, Pb, or Cu.

https://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/Regulations/SOR-2002-222/page-10.html#docCont

 

Edited September 6, 2020 by Enthalpic

[ronwagn + 6,290]

45 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Doing their "best" is irrelevant. Fracking has increased flaring, end of story. 

Freight transport is about to make a furious transition to electric. 

There were only 2,000 electric trucks on US roads at the end of 2019, but new research from analysts Wood Mackenzie suggest that number will soar to more than 54,000 by 2025.https://thedriven.io/2020/08/14/electric-truck-sales-in-us-predicted-to-soar-to-54000-by-2025/

Mark, you need to prepare yourself because the moment one freight company goes all electric they all will. By that I mean that their total yearly fleet replenishment rate will be made up of electric. Result will be a fully electric freight fleet faster than the consumer fleet.

 

Natural gas trucks apparently cost about a third more than a diesel truck but about a third the price of an electric truck. I have only done casual research on that though. I can't see that working out, even in California. Natural gas makes far more sense. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

11 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

Natural gas trucks apparently cost about a third more than a diesel truck but about a third the price of an electric truck. I have only done casual research on that though. I can't see that working out, even in California. Natural gas makes far more sense. 

That's because you continue to refuse to accept the decreasing cost curve of batteries.

“Five or six years ago, a lithium ion battery specialized for a truck or van would cost around $1,000 per kilowatt-hour,” Slesinski notes. “That cost has been declining – on average – about 20% per year. We are now at the point where batteries cost about $250 or less per kWh.”

To better understand how important those cost reductions are for the future of commercial EVs, Slesinski says he likes to think of them in the context of trucks running today. “If you have a truck or tractor running 200 miles per day, you’re going to need a 400-kWh battery pack to enable that kind of range. And to do that at few years ago, you were looking at a $400,000 price tag on a new truck – just for the batteries. Today, the cost of those same batteries is in the $100,000 range – possibly less. So, as I said, we are getting awfully close to the point of parity when it comes to comparing a new electric truck with a conventional, diesel-powered unit.”

https://www.truckinginfo.com/342783/electroeconomics-the-macro-economics-of-electric-trucks

Edited September 6, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[ronwagn + 6,290]

12 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

That's because you continue to refuse to accept the decreasing cost curve of batteries.

“Five or six years ago, a lithium ion battery specialized for a truck or van would cost around $1,000 per kilowatt-hour,” Slesinski notes. “That cost has been declining – on average – about 20% per year. We are now at the point where batteries cost about $250 or less per kWh.”

To better understand how important those cost reductions are for the future of commercial EVs, Slesinski says he likes to think of them in the context of trucks running today. “If you have a truck or tractor running 200 miles per day, you’re going to need a 400-kWh battery pack to enable that kind of range. And to do that at few years ago, you were looking at a $400,000 price tag on a new truck – just for the batteries. Today, the cost of those same batteries is in the $100,000 range – possibly less. So, as I said, we are getting awfully close to the point of parity when it comes to comparing a new electric truck with a conventional, diesel-powered unit.”

https://www.truckinginfo.com/342783/electroeconomics-the-macro-economics-of-electric-trucks

My figures were based on the Lion Trucks that you just posted about. https://trucks.thelionelectric.com/

Your new reference still seems very forward looking and not something that is currently achievable.

Edited September 6, 2020 by ronwagn
addition

[Jay McKinsey + 1,491]

3 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

My figures were based on the Lion Trucks that you just posted about. https://trucks.thelionelectric.com/

And in three years the cost of their batteries will be half what they are today.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

Ok, I guess my main problem with your posts is that you are thinking in your imagined future of what will be in three to whatever number of years. I understand that, because I have had the same problem with natural gas vehicles. I think it will be a competition between the two. There are far more natural gas vehicles than electric ones, with the exception of bicycles, so I have a head start. My fall back is that natural gas still makes more electricity for all those electric vehicles. Wind and solar cannot keep up if you get all those electric vehicles on the road. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

3 hours ago, Jimc said:

See the truth comes out 

Alberta environment regulates the oil industry not the ECCC that’s your background and point of reasoning.

I wasn't trying to deceive. 

Yes, AB Env handles the vast majority of the oil stuff, but even then I saw my share of files because the pollution entered fisheries water. 

If a rail car of oil derails into a lake, who fault is that?  Obviously the railway, but it is still oil industry related.

Edited September 6, 2020 by Enthalpic