Consumer Reports Confirms EV Owners Spend Half As Much On Maintenance

[Meredith Poor + 883]

4 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

Where did you get 500 miles per day? Reading further in the thread it seems 2400 miles per month. Why the tires needed to be changed is questionable, and if the Tesla were driven the exact same way its tires would also need to be changed no? 

Police officers respond to how many miles they put on their cars per day. It runs the gamut. Given how little the Tesla gets charged, I'm going with the chief uses it as his personal toy and it doesn't really do anything, while the Dodge is out there chasing bad guys (apparently wearing out tires and crashing into them, needing headlights). That said, those prices were quite high for such minor work, so I'm starting to suspect the entire premise. 

500 miles a day is simply what someone drives if they drive all day: 8 hours x 62.5 miles per hour, or (two shifts) 16 hours per day times 30 miles per hour. If a police car is operational for 3 years, it only has to drive 90 miles per day to go 100,000 miles. 90 miles per day times 30 days per month = 1800 miles.

Tesla, however, claims that their vehicles are all built to Class 8 truck standards, so they should last 1,000,000 miles. This implies a Tesla police car should be operational for 417 months or 35 years. For some reason I don't see a police car lasting 35 years, at least one patrolling the mean streets of LA, Chicago, NYC, etc.

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,132]

57 minutes ago, Rob Kramer said:

Just my thoughts / advice on it. As the gap gets bigger more juice is needed to bridge the gap and more heat and wear in the coils. Higher rpm would increase heat and also load (speeding up / hauling) wider throttle allows more air and the higher compression / more fuel needs more oomph. But I mean I've seen coils go at the dealership at 60,000km. Some just last.

Yup, I always have a spare coil.  Easy enough to find if/when it dies and requires 2 seconds to replace.  They are also dirt cheap and the spark plugs anymore cost more.  I haven't driven a car with less than 150,000miles in I do not know how long ago...  Hrmm probably 2 decades and that light truck at over 100,000. 

[footeab@yahoo.com + 2,132]

36 minutes ago, Meredith Poor said:

500 miles a day is simply what someone drives if they drive all day: 8 hours x 62.5 miles per hour, or (two shifts) 16 hours per day times 30 miles per hour. If a police car is operational for 3 years, it only has to drive 90 miles per day to go 100,000 miles. 90 miles per day times 30 days per month = 1800 miles.

EDIT: Use cops own words: https://forum.officer.com/forum/public-forums/ask-a-cop/112063-how-many-miles-a-day-do-you-average-on-your-car

As for how many miles in the report: TESLA: $60/month it looks like @15c/KWh = 400KWh 1mi/0.25KWh = ~1600miles/month or under 20,000miles/year. 

If the Charger was driven same amount... It should have had ONE oil change and not one single cent used in repairs.  20,000miles/year @20mpg = 1000 gallons at $3/gallon should have been $3000 total with a single oil change for another ~$40 compared to TESLA's $60/month electric($720) for a tidy $2300 difference. 

Of course if you use the supercharger network then its cost is?  $25c/KWh, and actual mileage driven was a paltry 240kWh 4 =~1000miles/month or 12,000 a year and then the charger if driven the same is has ZERO in oil change cost, and a fuel bill of 12,000/20*$3/gallon = $1800 bucks verses $720 or ~$1000 difference

Consumer reports ... ah lying again... not that I did not expect them to do anything other than lie so...

Edited October 5, 2020 by footeab@yahoo.com

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Meredith Poor said:

500 miles a day is simply what someone drives if they drive all day: 8 hours x 62.5 miles per hour, or (two shifts) 16 hours per day times 30 miles per hour. If a police car is operational for 3 years, it only has to drive 90 miles per day to go 100,000 miles. 90 miles per day times 30 days per month = 1800 miles.

Tesla, however, claims that their vehicles are all built to Class 8 truck standards, so they should last 1,000,000 miles. This implies a Tesla police car should be operational for 417 months or 35 years. For some reason I don't see a police car lasting 35 years, at least one patrolling the mean streets of LA, Chicago, NYC, etc.

Maybe a highway patrol vehicle approaches those numbers, but not a city police vehicle. It's also highly unlikely the car is driven 24/7 like you seem to indicate. I've seen lots of police cars go home with the officer, one used to live next door to my mom's house.  They don't like to leave police cars on the street, where they tend to get vandalised so those who have garages are allowed to take them home. So just one shift per car per day. 

Also what @footeab@yahoo.com says above, I didn't post the math but was doing it in my head thinking there's no way this was apples to apples comparison. Even the (paltry) repairs mentioned should never cost that much no matter what. That's a Dodge, not a Porsche Cayman. 

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

5 hours ago, markslawson said:

 I looked at the link but there is no usable information on just how they compare the types of cars. In any case, you want to hear this sort of of stuff from an independent body. 

Consumer Reports is the foremost independent body in the US in regard to consumer product testing. When you say you looked at the link do you mean the article or the report that it links to?  Because the report explains what they did.  

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

4 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Have a read....https://www.georgetownclimate.org/files/report/Capturing-the-Federal-EV-Tax-Credit-for-Public-Fleets.pdf

Thanks for the link! A very interesting hack. I didn't realize they were doing that.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

4 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Thanks for the link! A very interesting hack. I didn't realize they were doing that.

No hack at all its been done since the inception of the tax credits.Frankly I would go into detail on the green energy flim flam but it would serve no purpose only inflame and cause discord. 

 

 

 

[Rob Kramer + 696]

12 hours ago, footeab@yahoo.com said:

Yup, I always have a spare coil.  Easy enough to find if/when it dies and requires 2 seconds to replace.  They are also dirt cheap and the spark plugs anymore cost more.  I haven't driven a car with less than 150,000miles in I do not know how long ago...  Hrmm probably 2 decades and that light truck at over 100,000. 

I like that. Were in the rust belt most vehicles are disintegrating or the bolts underneath are all seized up at 240,000km (150k mi) . Were a one car family with a garage and decently sloped driveway between my house and the neighbor's (theres only a 2 foot grass walk around area but its fenced) so with hardly any driving 20hours of shade and water clearing instantly my vehicles stay as close to showroom as possible . It's amazing what a little OCD can do lol . But before wife and kids I had all beaters. I loved thoes cars! Had 3 1998 civic hb all at one time all , all road worthy and re sold. Paid 1000$ for the first 700$ for the second and 300$ third . Had a 98 toyota tercel at 400k km just needed a clutch and e brakes, 600$ soo slow tho got passed by a loaded  transport truck going up a hill lol. And the best car was a 01 echo .300$ just swapped a battery removed the car theft system and replaced rear cracked coil springs.  Theres great deals out there if your not looking to be fancy and  not afraid of a a little work. Had a list of other cars mx6s red one and a black one with engine swaps (klze 2.6L V6 9000 rpm redline 200hp) -that was pretty impressive back in the day for a NA Asian car. Accords and intrgras were great too could always find them cheap. Think I went through 32 cars from 17years old to 23 . 2 wreaked .  The rest I think I just wanted to try then would find the next thing to fix and try out. Anyways I respect any form of transportation is all I'm saying (except untaxed forms) . Anyways hope you enjoy my trip down memory lane lol.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

19 hours ago, Rob Kramer said:

On the tuscon I just sold I bought from the dealership I was working at at that time. Oil change every 6,000km oil filters in bulk 2 to 3 $ delivered. 2L engine held 4.2L oil and Wally world or crappy tire on sale oil at 13$/5L . So 100k Miles is 160,000km. I also bought snow tires from dealership on rims 750$ employee price. So 27 oil changes. 13$/5L=2.6$/L of oil .27×3$= 81$ in filters. 27x 4.2L= 114L×2.6$= 300$ in oil .headlights are 20$ for 2 regular or 60$ for expensive ones.water pump is 80$ but with coolant +20$ and labour 200$ so 300$ total. I had 89,000km and had the winters still 90% and original summers 40% tread but say replace them probably 650$ so just going through easier to argue dealership oil change costs 60$ each.  So total . 750$ winter tires 650$ tire replacement,  300$ water pump and coolant 27x60$= 1620$ oil changes and headlights 120$ = 3440$ add 25% for premium parts? = 4300$ +13% tax =4860$ add alignment just because ... 140$ =5000$ spark plugs ? 24$ ×4 (a charger would be v8 so 8x) let's do charger price after all were looking at upper range of cost. so 8x24= 192$+ 1hr at 108$? So 300# so 5300$ total. What else can we squeak out. I mean we could rebuild the front end but most stuff would have had first set under warranty.  Still fairly cheap. Even add a 700$ 4 wheel break job and fluid flush another 100$ is 6100$ pwr steering is electric.  Serpentine belt? 75$ + half hr install 54$ 140$ so 6240$ and your in a rebuilt car that can go another 80k miles with only oil changes.

Edit trans flush . 290$ so 6530$ total . Rear diff fluid 150$ ... note these are all dealership prices. You could add center or front diff at 150$ each if 4wd. So 450$and almost at 7000$ 

A thought here...autos are very much like women or men to for that matter I might add.Some have expensive tastes and high maintenance costs and some do not.

It would seem the above selected vehicle has a rather peculiar maintance schedule and spendy at that. But hey love is blind and that is entirely a personal decision.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

On 10/3/2020 at 6:27 PM, Jay McKinsey said:

See Tesla Model 3 Police Car Savings Over 1 Year Vs Dodge Charger

The first year has brought more than $6,750 in savings, almost matching the initial price difference compared to a Dodge Charger.

https://insideevs.com/news/446583/tesla-model-3-police-savings-1-year/

Another question if i may...Are these Dodge chargers interceptors/chase cars? Assuming they are...would you be saying A EV is capable of intercepts...Odd a unibody serving in a police force.

[Dan Clemmensen + 1,011]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Another question if i may...Are these Dodge chargers interceptors/chase cars? Assuming they are...would you be saying A EV is capable of intercepts...Odd a unibody serving in a police force.

I'm not sure of all the features a pursuit car needs, but the Model 3 is far superior to a Dodge Charger in acceleration and handling. Acceleration is ridiculously high because the electric motors both have very high torque and are driving all four wheels. The handling is intrinsically good because the (heavy) battery is close to the ground. take a look at all of the youtube videos of Model 3 versus various supercars.

Here is a video of a model 3 beating the most powerful Dodge Charger (a  Hellcat) in a drag race:

https://insideevs.com/news/358569/video-dodge-charger-hellcat-race-tesla-model-3/

Somehow, I doubt a police department would buy a Hellcat, but whatever. the Hellcat's advertized top speed is a lot higher than the model 3. If you want to get that crazy, you will need to buy a Model S.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Dan Clemmensen
add link

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

1 hour ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Another question if i may...Are these Dodge chargers interceptors/chase cars? Assuming they are...would you be saying A EV is capable of intercepts...Odd a unibody serving in a police force.

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

48 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

 

Good information it would seem there is a Police Package are you aware of the cost of that package by chance? Interesting it also seems it have a track mode....which sustains the car for about 30 minutes of pursuit mode...https://insideevs.com/news/367599/video-tesla-model-3-track-mode-burns-range/

Now to delve into the Police Package.....Interesting stuff.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

2 hours ago, Dan Clemmensen said:

I'm not sure of all the features a pursuit car needs, but the Model 3 is far superior to a Dodge Charger in acceleration and handling. Acceleration is ridiculously high because the electric motors both have very high torque and are driving all four wheels. The handling is intrinsically good because the (heavy) battery is close to the ground. take a look at all of the youtube videos of Model 3 versus various supercars.

Here is a video of a model 3 beating the most powerful Dodge Charger (a  Hellcat) in a drag race:

https://insideevs.com/news/358569/video-dodge-charger-hellcat-race-tesla-model-3/

Somehow, I doubt a police department would buy a Hellcat, but whatever. the Hellcat's advertized top speed is a lot higher than the model 3. If you want to get that crazy, you will need to buy a Model S.

We agree a EV car is capable of extreme torque and 1/4 mile ability...Only limited by 30 minute bursts..

https://insideevs.com/news/367599/video-tesla-model-3-track-mode-burns-range/

 

Edited October 5, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

37 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Good information it would seem there is a Police Package are you aware of the cost of that package by chance? Interesting it also seems it have a track mode....which sustains the car for about 30 minutes of pursuit mode...https://insideevs.com/news/367599/video-tesla-model-3-track-mode-burns-range/

Now to delve into the Police Package.....Interesting stuff.

Tesla does not offer a Police Package, they just got the Performance Model 3. He explains here:

 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

5 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Tesla does not offer a Police Package, they just got the Performance Model 3. He explains here:

 

Interesting statement, and your take on this information....it seems a bit fuzzy.

https://electrek.co/2019/01/24/tesla-model-s-police-patrol-vehicle-fremont/

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

32 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Interesting statement, and your take on this information....it seems a bit fuzzy.

https://electrek.co/2019/01/24/tesla-model-s-police-patrol-vehicle-fremont/

I don't know what is fuzzy. At the 2:40-2:50 mark in the video he clearly states that Tesla has no special package for government and that the car cost $53,000 and that they paid the same as anyone else would.

The Fremont car is a used Model S that they bought and put lights on. The cars at issue here are the Model 3 and soon the Model Y.

Edited October 5, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

It does look like Tesla may have put standard wheels on it for them and charged $1500 less.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

34 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

It does look like Tesla may have put standard wheels on it for them and charged $1500 less.

And here...what are the cost here? A point is being made here, it is rather interesting to say the least..and the final conclusion will shock you...Damm i actually made a funny!

https://mashable.com/article/tesla-model-s-fremont-polic8-patrol-ev/

Of course Tesla does have a ready made car model X $80,000 at least that is Switzerlands opinion...Kinda sorta..

https://electrek.co/2018/12/02/tesla-model-x-police-vehicle/

 

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

6 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

And here...what are the cost here? A point is being made here, it is rather interesting to say the least..and the final conclusion will shock you...Damm i actually made a funny!

https://mashable.com/article/tesla-model-s-fremont-police-patrol-ev/

Your example is of the cost for the very first police car made out of a Model S. That is not what we are talking about. The coming wave of Tesla police car adoption is for the Model 3 and Y which cost a lot less to start with. Then an independent set of companies add police equipment and replace the back seat etc. And according the Westport police they also put different tires on at the beginning. They are also working with Tesla to adjust the software controls for them. As the independent modification companies figure out how best to do the conversion the price for that part will come down rapidly. Even so the cost savings afterwards, according to the PD, more than makes up for the initial costs. 

Have you even watched the Westport video linked above? They go into great detail. And please note that you can also watch the videos from the other Tesla PD's such as Bargersville.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

10 minutes ago, Jay McKinsey said:

Your example is of the cost for the very first police car made out of a Model S. That is not what we are talking about. The coming wave of Tesla police car adoption is for the Model 3 and Y which cost a lot less to start with. Then an independent set of companies add police equipment and replace the back seat etc. And according the Westport police they also put different tires on at the beginning. They are also working with Tesla to adjust the software controls for them. As the independent modification companies figure out how best to do the conversion the price for that part will come down rapidly. Even so the cost savings afterwards, according to the PD, more than makes up for the initial costs. 

Have you even watched the Westport video linked above? They go into great detail. And please note that you can also watch the videos from the other Tesla PD's such as Bargersville.

Actually i merely lifting the vale...a transparent picture...It would be most interesting to to see if the city's mgr has checked in with there insurance company. Highly modified vehicles need certification to perform civil service...and if they do not meet a mfg compliance...well malfence comes to mind... Makes one wonder just who is MFG this Police Interceptor...????

Ok i believe there is the enough info to start a WAG on the true cost of ownership...and in the end legally i see no use other than picking up the mayors laundry...My bad that was not fair...

Edited October 6, 2020 by Eyes Wide Open

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

3 minutes ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

Makes one wonder just who is MFG this Police Interceptor...????

 

If you bothered to watch the Westport video, linked repeatedly above, you would know as they explain who those aftermarket companies are in detail.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

1 hour ago, Jay McKinsey said:

If you bothered to watch the Westport video, linked repeatedly above, you would know as they explain who those aftermarket companies are in detail.

After market company's are not mfg's...but that is only part of the equation. 

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,539]

On 10/4/2020 at 6:40 PM, footeab@yahoo.com said:

EDIT: Use cops own words: https://forum.officer.com/forum/public-forums/ask-a-cop/112063-how-many-miles-a-day-do-you-average-on-your-car

As for how many miles in the report: TESLA: $60/month it looks like @15c/KWh = 400KWh 1mi/0.25KWh = ~1600miles/month or under 20,000miles/year. 

If the Charger was driven same amount... It should have had ONE oil change and not one single cent used in repairs.  20,000miles/year @20mpg = 1000 gallons at $3/gallon should have been $3000 total with a single oil change for another ~$40 compared to TESLA's $60/month electric($720) for a tidy $2300 difference. 

Of course if you use the supercharger network then its cost is?  $25c/KWh, and actual mileage driven was a paltry 240kWh 4 =~1000miles/month or 12,000 a year and then the charger if driven the same is has ZERO in oil change cost, and a fuel bill of 12,000/20*$3/gallon = $1800 bucks verses $720 or ~$1000 difference

Consumer reports ... ah lying again... not that I did not expect them to do anything other than lie so...

Actually a friend of a friend somehow tied consumer reports into this cluster bomb or reporting. This green energy alliance has very deep political ties...and those ties have very very deep pockets. Good catch however its always the fundamentals that work at the end of the day.

[Jay McKinsey + 1,489]

Just now, Eyes Wide Open said:

After market company's are not mfg's...but that is only part of the equation. 

Then the mfg is Tesla. 

Police Department buys car from Tesla. They do not get an EV tax credit because Tesla is no longer eligible.

The car is then sent to one or more aftermarket companies who provide various modifications such as: flashing colored lights, radios, vinyl flooring, vinyl backseat, front/back passenger separator, exterior paint, gun vaults...

Police department takes delivery and enjoys the car immensely while saving a lot of money over the life of the car. Bargersville has now replaced three of their four Dodge Chargers and is hiring two new officers with their vehicle savings.