ceo_energemsier + 1,818 cv October 21, 2020 Australia’s Commodities Heartland Set for Major Hydrogen Plant The desolate red sands of the Pilbara region in western Australia, home to most of the iron ore mines that account for a major chunk of the nation’s export income, may one day house an ambitious hydrogen export hub. The Asian Renewable Energy Hub, which would use electricity from wind and solar plants stretched across thousands of miles to produce hydrogen and ammonia, hopes to soon be awarded major project status by the government. That would allow it to fast-track through approvals processes toward its target of first exports by 2028 and bolster the nation’s ambitions to become a world-leading exporter of the zero-emissions fuel. “We’re hoping to have an announcement from the federal government on major project status soon,” Alicia Eastman, co-founder of Intercontinental Energy, which is the lead investor in the consortium developing the project, said in an interview with Bloomberg TV. Australia’s Future Hydrogen Hub The Asian Renewable Energy Hub plans to use solar and wind farms to produce hydrogen for export Source: The Asian Renewable Energy Hub Energy planners are increasingly looking to hydrogen as a cleaner alternative to natural gas in the drive to limit global warming. Australia is seeking to use its vast empty spaces and abundant sun and wind to gain an edge in the nascent industry, which could meet almost a quarter of the world’s energy needs by 2050, according to BloombergNEF. The project’s first phase would build wind and solar capacity of 15 gigawatts, making it the world’s largest power producing facility behind China’s Three Gorges Dam and equaling Australia’s current total commercial installations of the renewable technologies. That would be used to power electrolyzers that convert the energy into hydrogen at an initial capital cost of around A$22 billion ($16 billion). AREH’s owners target a final investment decision in 2025. The project’s first phase would build wind and solar capacity of 15 gigawatts, making it the world’s largest power producing facility behind China’s Three Gorges Dam and equaling Australia’s current total commercial installations of the renewable technologies. That would be used to power electrolyzers that convert the energy into hydrogen at an initial capital cost of around A$22 billion ($16 billion). AREH’s owners target a final investment decision in 2025. The government last year unveiled a national hydrogen strategy with a goal of commercial exports by 2030, and the fuel is one of five priority technologies in its road map to lowering greenhouse gas emissions. Australia has also entered partnerships with Germany, Japan and South Korea to explore ways to increase use of the fuel. The consortium, which also includes CWP Renewables Pty, turbine manufacturer Vestas Wind Systems A/S and Pathway Investments, hopes the award of major project status will attract more investment, particularly from large funds looking to boost their exposure to clean energy projects to meet tougher environmental mandates. Finding a way to transport hydrogen economically is one of the biggest challenges faced by champions of the fuel. The hub plans to use the Pilbara’s iron ore ports to ship ammonia, which is easier to move at commercial volume, and then convert it into hydrogen at the destination. The ammonia itself has a number of uses, including as a fertilizer in agriculture. Securing buyers may also be a challenge, at least in the near term. While Hydrogen has been touted as a cleaner fuel for use in heavy transportation and in the steel-making process, it will require $150 billion worth of subsidies by 2030 to achieve commercial scale and drive the cost of production down toward levels competitive with more traditional fuel sources, according to BloombergNEF. View full article at www.bloomberg.com https://asianrehub.com/?mc_cid=9487a8ebf5&mc_eid=ff5237c333 2 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,057 ML October 22, 2020 On 10/22/2020 at 5:15 AM, ceo_energemsier said: The Asian Renewable Energy Hub, which would use electricity from wind and solar plants stretched across thousands of miles to produce hydrogen and ammonia, hopes to soon be awarded major project status by the government. Okay, so they're hoping for a government grant. Have you read this material? These guys are seriously proposing to drop $US16 billion on a project to supply a market that doesn't yet exist. How many facilities are set up to use the liquid hydrogen generated by this project? Further on in the article it says "while Hydrogen has been touted as a cleaner fuel for use in heavy transportation and in the steel-making process, it will require $150 billion worth of subsidies by 2030 to achieve commercial scale and drive the cost of production down toward levels competitive with more traditional fuel sources" that's probably an under estimate by an order of magnitude or two. Other coverage of this in Australia says a final investment decision will be made in 2025. By then everyone will have forgotten about the announcement and it will be quietly dropped, but not before a host of consultants have taken their fees. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW October 23, 2020 14 hours ago, markslawson said: Okay, so they're hoping for a government grant. Have you read this material? These guys are seriously proposing to drop $US16 billion on a project to supply a market that doesn't yet exist. How many facilities are set up to use the liquid hydrogen generated by this project? Further on in the article it says "while Hydrogen has been touted as a cleaner fuel for use in heavy transportation and in the steel-making process, it will require $150 billion worth of subsidies by 2030 to achieve commercial scale and drive the cost of production down toward levels competitive with more traditional fuel sources" that's probably an under estimate by an order of magnitude or two. Other coverage of this in Australia says a final investment decision will be made in 2025. By then everyone will have forgotten about the announcement and it will be quietly dropped, but not before a host of consultants have taken their fees. Without any modification to plant you can blend approx 3% by calorific value, hydrogen into natural Gas. There is a potential respository for 1200 TWH of hydrogen globally. Europe is already going down this route. The global ammonia market is >150 mt per annum. Thats another 30 million tonnes of H2 demand or 1000 TWh. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,057 ML October 23, 2020 9 hours ago, NickW said: There is a potential respository for 1200 TWH of hydrogen globally. Oh sure, there's a potential.. there's a potential for a lot of things. But the fact remains that very little of that potential has been realised to date and will require vast sums of taxpayers money to create, as the original article states. These guys want to build a facility to supply a market that does not exist. Why not wait for the market to at least be partially realised then propose ways to supply it? 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeyboardWarrior + 527 October 24, 2020 15 hours ago, NickW said: The global ammonia market is >150 mt per annum. Thats another 30 million tonnes of H2 demand or 1000 TWh. More than that. We'll hit 200 soon. Now, I'm wondering if these hydrogen producers understand just how little they'll be selling their energy for if they wish to compete with $3.00 gas. Ammonia plants, by running fully on gas, are paying a virtual cent per kWht. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeyboardWarrior + 527 October 24, 2020 I'm going to figure out how much hydrogen this project will produce, and then calculate revenues based on a hydrogen price calculated from natural gas. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV October 25, 2020 On 10/24/2020 at 9:10 AM, markslawson said: Oh sure, there's a potential.. there's a potential for a lot of things. But the fact remains that very little of that potential has been realised to date and will require vast sums of taxpayers money to create, as the original article states. These guys want to build a facility to supply a market that does not exist. Why not wait for the market to at least be partially realised then propose ways to supply it? Actually Mark, I think the $150 bn they refer to is for the entire planet. A tiny sum in the scheme of things. Even a small tax on Carbon (say $10/tonne) would likely make green H2 viable. I believe that the carbon price in Europe is around $50/tonne so it is not difficult to see why they are pursuing the technology? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,057 ML October 25, 2020 20 hours ago, Wombat said: Actually Mark, I think the $150 bn they refer to is for the entire planet. The $150 billion is almost certainly an underestimate by a factor of two or three, as I said, and I doubt very much whether even that amount would affect industrial CO2 emissions. Its still only about creating a market and making H2 economical - if the technology is ever mastered. The market is meant to develop from there, which includes the little matter of persuading other countries such as China, that really H2 is the way to go. This does not seem likely. As for the $10 a tonne thing the price in the EU ETS, as of October 12 was 24.52 euros a tonne.. that's $US29 or $A40 (it was higher earlier this year), but quibbling aside you're saying the price has to go to $A50 a tonne to be viable. Already costs are blowing out and the technology hasn't even been invented yet.. sorry, Wombat but its a pipe dream - literally in this case, as pipes are involved. Anyway, thanks for the discussion. Leave it with you.. 1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV October 26, 2020 8 hours ago, markslawson said: The $150 billion is almost certainly an underestimate by a factor of two or three, as I said, and I doubt very much whether even that amount would affect industrial CO2 emissions. Its still only about creating a market and making H2 economical - if the technology is ever mastered. The market is meant to develop from there, which includes the little matter of persuading other countries such as China, that really H2 is the way to go. This does not seem likely. As for the $10 a tonne thing the price in the EU ETS, as of October 12 was 24.52 euros a tonne.. that's $US29 or $A40 (it was higher earlier this year), but quibbling aside you're saying the price has to go to $A50 a tonne to be viable. Already costs are blowing out and the technology hasn't even been invented yet.. sorry, Wombat but its a pipe dream - literally in this case, as pipes are involved. Anyway, thanks for the discussion. Leave it with you.. There is a big difference between a pipe dream and a wet dream. The former tend to "Cum true" whilst the latter never "Cum thru"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV October 26, 2020 2 minutes ago, Wombat said: There is a big difference between a pipe dream and a wet dream. The former tend to "Cum true" whilst the latter never "Cum thru"? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV October 26, 2020 6 minutes ago, Wombat said: https://www.bing.com/search?q=shout+shout+let+it+all+out&cvid=6d03031147e9457194dd22c59164f38a&pglt=43&PC=U531&FORM=VDVVXX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV October 26, 2020 18 minutes ago, Wombat said: https://www.bing.com/search?q=shout+shout+let+it+all+out&cvid=6d03031147e9457194dd22c59164f38a&pglt=43&PC=U531&FORM=VDVVXX https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=land+down+under+lyrics&view=detail&mid=AC334F08E2A74223BD27AC334F08E2A74223BD27&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dland%2bdown%2bunder%2blyrics%26cvid%3d0ae47517503742fdbd185bdfd3688cb5%26pglt%3d43%26FORM%3dANNTA1%26PC%3dU531 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Wombat + 1,028 AV October 26, 2020 48 minutes ago, Wombat said: https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=land+down+under+lyrics&view=detail&mid=AC334F08E2A74223BD27AC334F08E2A74223BD27&FORM=VIRE0&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dland%2bdown%2bunder%2blyrics%26cvid%3d0ae47517503742fdbd185bdfd3688cb5%26pglt%3d43%26FORM%3dANNTA1%26PC%3dU531 https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=New+Radicals+You+Get+What+You+Give&docid=608021727115609833&mid=EE07C08B4BF8ACEF65A4EE07C08B4BF8ACEF65A4&view=detail&ru=%2fsearch%3fq%3dyou%2bget%2bwhat%2byou%2bgive%2blyrics%26cvid%3d8f5b5ee160fb4ce9aab19a5ef5a87700%26pglt%3d43%26FORM%3dANNTA1%26PC%3dU531 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW October 26, 2020 On 10/24/2020 at 12:10 AM, markslawson said: Oh sure, there's a potential.. there's a potential for a lot of things. But the fact remains that very little of that potential has been realised to date and will require vast sums of taxpayers money to create, as the original article states. These guys want to build a facility to supply a market that does not exist. Why not wait for the market to at least be partially realised then propose ways to supply it? Not really. Once the electrolysers are built its simply a case of injecting it into the existing network upto about 3% by calorifc content . The market already exists in the form of the demand for natural gas which is about 4 trillion m3 of gas. Approx 3% of that can be substituted with Hydrogen. No need to create any new market. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
markslawson + 1,057 ML October 27, 2020 13 hours ago, NickW said: Not really. Once the electrolysers are built its simply a case of injecting it into the existing network upto about 3% by calorifc content . The market already exists in the form of the demand for natural gas which is about 4 trillion m3 of gas. Approx 3% of that can be substituted with Hydrogen. No need to create any new market. "once the electrolysers are built" and then you have to inject it.. it all sounds like a lot of trouble and expense for not much gain. In any case, they can't ship H2 commercially yet. It will be ammonia initially, which has to be converted back into hydrogen. Sorry, Nick, but you're clutching at straws. The best that can be said about this project is that its ahead of its time.. anyway, leave it with you.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NickW + 2,714 NW October 27, 2020 8 hours ago, markslawson said: "once the electrolysers are built" and then you have to inject it.. it all sounds like a lot of trouble and expense for not much gain. In any case, they can't ship H2 commercially yet. It will be ammonia initially, which has to be converted back into hydrogen. Sorry, Nick, but you're clutching at straws. The best that can be said about this project is that its ahead of its time.. anyway, leave it with you.. The global market for Ammonia is 150mt. Once converted into Ammonia it may as well stay as Ammonia. The predominant gain is for fossil fuel poor countries but have plenty of renewables. In these cases H2 is basicially a battery to deal with intermittency and something that can be blended into natural gas imports. I appreciate Australia isn't in this position. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
footeab@yahoo.com + 2,190 October 27, 2020 (edited) 12 hours ago, NickW said: The global market for Ammonia is 150mt. Once converted into Ammonia it may as well stay as Ammonia. The predominant gain is for fossil fuel poor countries but have plenty of renewables. In these cases H2 is basicially a battery to deal with intermittency and something that can be blended into natural gas imports. I appreciate Australia isn't in this position. But, no one is importing Ch4 via ship... And frankly I do not see this side ever taking off other than in niche markets. This is literally a crackpipe dream if you asked me. So, lets be realistic, pipelines are nice, but not reality for majority of energy use. If you cannot ship it the world over, the world is not interested other than niche products via pipeline. The real question is; can H2 be stored like CH4 in gigantic salt caverns? Of course we are still looking at a product which is only 50% return on investment in best case and requires expensive network/plants to operate/run whereas pumped hydro storage is cheaper in long run but site constrained. EDIT: Oops... forgot the obvious: EVERYONE needs Ammonia(fertilizer), and massive amounts of it. This makes far more sense to go the fertilizer route intermittent "renewables" route first and then branch out. Of course this would never work unless giant government subsidy as Fertilizer from Ch4 is vastly cheaper. Edited October 27, 2020 by footeab@yahoo.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jay McKinsey + 1,490 October 27, 2020 (edited) Kawasaki delivered on its part of the deal by launching a brand new ship designed to carry liquid hydrogen between the south coast of Australia and an unloading terminal under construction in Kobe, Japan. https://newatlas.com/marine/kawasaki-worlds-first-liquid-hydrogen-transport-ship/ The Chevron Phillips Clemens Terminal in Texas has stored hydrogen since the 1980s in a solution-mined salt cavern. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Underground_hydrogen_storage#:~:text=Underground hydrogen storage is the,in caverns for many years.&text=By using a turboexpander the,2.1% of the energy content. Edited October 27, 2020 by Jay McKinsey Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KeyboardWarrior + 527 October 28, 2020 On 10/24/2020 at 8:16 PM, Wombat said: Actually Mark, I think the $150 bn they refer to is for the entire planet. A tiny sum in the scheme of things. Even a small tax on Carbon (say $10/tonne) would likely make green H2 viable. I believe that the carbon price in Europe is around $50/tonne so it is not difficult to see why they are pursuing the technology? A carbon tax doesn't make an energy solution viable for an economy. The price of anhydrous will have to be insane if they're hoping to get a good rate for their energy production. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ceo_energemsier + 1,818 cv November 11, 2020 Adelaide’s Pioneering Hydrogen Plant in Final Stages 26 Oct 2020 Adelaide’s pioneering hydrogen production plant, Hydrogen Park South Australia (HyP SA), is now in the final commissioning stages, and is set to supply industry, starting with the regional city of Whyalla The breakthrough will position the new facility at the Tonsley Innovation District as a major wholesale supplier of renewable hydrogen in Australia. Project developer Australian Gas Networks (AGN) – part of the Australian Gas Infrastructure Group (AGIG) – has completed the installation of the electrolyser, with final construction works due to be finished shortly. The plant is now undergoing commissioning before commencing supply of blended renewable hydrogen and natural gas into an adjoining suburban network near the Tonsley Innovation District in late-2020. The commissioning and first production is a key commercial milestone for AGN, which backed the $11.4 million project with a $4.9 million grant from the South Australian Government’s Renewable Technology Fund. The HyP SA plant has also announced a second major milestone, the signing of an agreement with BOC to install tube trailer refilling infrastructure at the site. Hydrogen tube trailers are generally semi-trailers with hydrogen tanks that vary in length from small tubes to very large size tanks – enabling hydrogen to be road-hauled from a supply site to any destination. BOC plans to supply industrial customers in Whyalla and Adelaide with hydrogen output from HyP SA. The new Adelaide-based hydrogen supply chain will replace current tube trailer hydrogen deliveries to Whyalla from Victoria, saving approximately 117,000km in annual driving and 122,000 kilograms of carbon emissions per year. AGIG’s Chief Executive Officer, Ben Wilson, said the expansion of the HyP SA facility to supply industry had always been part of the company’s plan for the facility. “This initial partnership with BOC is a key enabler to further potential expansion to South Australia and wider industrial markets,” Mr Wilson said. “It also brings us a step closer to supplying hydrogen for vehicle refuelling in South Australia. “Tube trailers are a well-established form of hydrogen transport. This new renewable hydrogen production source at HyP SA demonstrates the wider potential for this carbon-free gas and its ability to integrate into existing and future energy networks.” Installation of the tube trailer infrastructure is expected to be completed by January 2021, with first commercial deliveries to Whyalla commencing shortly afterwards. Mr Wilson said the HyP SA facility reflected widening community recognition of hydrogen’s benefits, and underlined South Australia’s status as a leader in this emerging industry with real potential to deliver substantial new jobs and growth for residential, commercial, industrial and export applications. Once operational, more than 700 homes in parts of the Adelaide suburb of Mitchell Park will be the first recipients in Australia to receive blended five per cent renewable gas. Both start-up schedules will further reinforce AGIG’s credentials as a leading hydrogen developer in Australia, with the company already bedding down nation-leading hydrogen projects in four states. Vesna Olles, Director, Strategy and Business Development, BOC, said, “SA will now have a local supply of green hydrogen readily available for energy projects, storage, mobility and more. “BOC is proud to be partnering with AGIG to support South Australian research groups and businesses which are developing world-leading energy solutions. “The short delivery routes for gas sourced from AGIG’s HyP SA will significantly reduce costs and open the hydrogen market in South Australia. “The reduction in transport emissions also makes this a great move towards our goal of delivering green hydrogen to South Australia. “Previously, hydrogen was transported to South Australia from Victoria. The volumes from HyP SA will also supply Western Australian customers, significantly reducing their transport emissions for hydrogen that was produced using 100 per cent renewable energy. “We look forward to working with AGIG and exploring future hydrogen opportunities across domestic applications and export opportunities.” SA’s Minister for Energy and Mining, Hon Dan van Holst Pellekaan, MP, said, “HyP SA is supported by a $4.9 million grant from the State Government’s Renewable Technology Fund. “I congratulate the agreement with BOC to supply renewable hydrogen to South Australian businesses – with the regional industrial city of Whyalla to be the first beneficiary. “This is an Australian-first application of tube trailers to transport renewable hydrogen to industry and will see the local production of ‘green’ hydrogen to displace ‘brown’ hydrogen currently imported from the east coast. “This commercial agreement between AGIG and BOC marks an important step towards unlocking hydrogen mobility in South Australia by onsite compression and transport of hydrogen.” Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ceo_energemsier + 1,818 cv November 11, 2020 Australia's largest independent oil & gas company advances renewable hydrogen plans, hunts for contractor H2TAS project in Tasmania is one of two hydrogen projects proposed by Australia's leading independent oil and gas company Australia's largest independent oil and gas company Woodside Petroleum is pressing ahead with renewable hydrogen projects and studying prospects for large-scale export of hydrogen as ammonia. Woodside has started the process of securing a contractor to design and build a renewable hydrogen plant on the island state of Tasmania. The proposed H2TAS project is a renewable hydrogen project in Bell Bay Advanced Manufacturing Zone, a heavy industrial precinct north of Launceston. The proposal involves a 10-megawatt pilot project producing 4.5 tonnes per day of hydrogen for domestic use, targeting the transportation sector. The project participants are operator Woodside and Countrywide Renewable Energy. Briefing on H2TAS project Contracting sources said Woodside hosted an Expression of Interest briefing in early September for companies interested in being considered for a combined contract, covering the front-end engineering and design followed by the engineering, procurement, construction and installation of the hydrogen plant. Up to 25 companies participated in the briefing including major oil and gas engineering and construction names such as Advisian, Clough, Doris, GHD, TechnipFMC and Wood. The next step is that Woodside will select a handful of companies to bid for the FEED-EPCI package, said contracting sources. Badgingarra project In addition to the H2TAS project, Woodside is participating at a very early stage in the Badgingarra renewable hydrogen project to be located at the Badgingarra wind and solar farm in Western Australia. That project intends to use 100% renewable power to produce hydrogen for use in power generation, transport and industrial applications, and is a joint venture between operator APA Group and Woodside. Peter Coleman, Woodside's chief executive, has said he was "pleased with the progress in new energy opportunities and the development of markets and supply chains for future projects, particularly hydrogen and ammonia". Studying large-scale export As well as the two Australian hydrogen projects, Woodside has an agreement with Japanese companies Jera, Marubeni and IHI Corporation to do a joint study on the large-scale export of hydrogen as ammonia to decarbonise coal-fired power generation in Japan. The consortium received approval from Japan’s New Energy & Industrial Technology Development Organization for a feasibility study covering the whole hydrogen-as-ammonia value chain, Woodside said. It will examine the construction and operation of world-scale ammonia facilities and optimisation of supply chain costs. As part of the study, Woodside will investigate the transition from blue to green hydrogen for export. Blue hydrogen is produced from gas using steam methane reforming, with related carbon emissions offset. Green hydrogen is made with renewable energy using electrolysis. Funding round Woodside's two hydrogen projects are currently seeking funding from the Australian Renewable Energy Agency (Arena). Woodside is one of seven companies shortlisted for the A$70 million Renewable Hydrogen Deployment Funding Round. Other contenders are BHP, Engie, Atco Australia, Macquarie Group, Australian Gas Networks and APT Management Services. Arena has said it expects the successful projects to be among some of the largest electrolysers in the world, and the applicants will need to prove the project will be powered by renewable electricity, either directly or through a contracting approach. The successful projects will also be expected to reach financial close by late 2021, with construction beginning in 2022. Arena expects to select its preferred applicants by mid-2021 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites