How China Is Racing To Expand Its Global Energy Influence

[Jay McKinsey + 1,490]

This is thread is hilarious! C'mon Team USA you are getting schooled by one CCP guy! 

Where's my popcorn... 

A quick note to my American colleagues, history goes further back than Obama and there is this thing called geography... Everything you need to win is there if only you paid attention in school. Can't wait for the Austrian to show up and explain how it is all the fault of us moving off the gold standard.

 

Edited November 12, 2020 by Jay McKinsey

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

On 11/9/2020 at 4:49 AM, frankfurter said:

Like others here, you cannot respond to anyone without first insulting them?

 

5 hours ago, frankfurter said:

I have no time or respect for dumbshits.

You talk of double standards and yet you seem to thrive on them yourself!

If you actually applied your first comment when responding to other posters yourself, you may find a less hostile response to your comments!

[Wombat + 1,028]

Frankfurter seems to have missed someting. The USA is still BY FAR the world most powerful military, and I will soon have them biting China's arse. I have Biden in my pocket, he owe's me.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

15 minutes ago, Wombat said:

Frankfurter seems to have missed someting. The USA is still BY FAR the world most powerful military, and I will soon have them biting China's arse. I have Biden in my pocket, he owe's me.

Joe seems to owe quite a few people.

[Wombat + 1,028]

17 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Joe seems to owe quite a few people.

Indeed. I stuck my neck out for the USA when China last manipulated their currency. I invited US marines onto Australian soil (which upset the Chinese no end), but so far, all that has done is cost my country a lot of lost exports with nothing to show for it. America either wants to protect her interests in this region or she doesn't. Gettin close to "show or tell" time.

 

[NickW + 2,714]

10 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

That border dispute really is a confusing issue, it seems China has enough going on without a skirmish over a hilly terrain of no value. Stumbling over dollars to pick up dimes?

Picking up pennies in front of a steamroller*

*India is a Nuclear power too

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

39 minutes ago, Wombat said:

Indeed. I stuck my neck out for the USA when China last manipulated their currency. I invited US marines onto Australian soil (which upset the Chinese no end), but so far, all that has done is cost my country a lot of lost exports with nothing to show for it. America either wants to protect her interests in this region or she doesn't. Gettin close to "show or tell" time.

 

No wonder Australia is worried about a Biden presidency.....

[NickW + 2,714]

10 hours ago, frankfurter said:

Incorrect. I do want people to know the history for what the west calls the 9-dash line; why China makes claims; and what is the nature of the claims.

Be honest: what do you know about the history? The history is long and detailed, and willfully ignored by westerners, yet the western colonial powers are directly responsible.

Discourse requires the other party to be learned, open minded, and rational; which cannot be assumed respecting Americans today.

 

 

 

The 9 dash line is a blatant territorial grab of other nations seabed rights using chinese muscle to achieve it. 

China, a member of the permanent security council on the UN signed this

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Convention_on_the_Law_of_the_Sea

Which by and large has worked well in demarcating sea bed rights between different nations big and small. 

The 9 dash line land grab basically craps all over the agreement China signed in 1994. 

 

[Wombat + 1,028]

15 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

No wonder Australia is worried about a Biden presidency.....

Not so much a case of being worried. Just sick of being jacked around. We simply want to know whether we are in an alliance or not, and if so, what it entails. If the goal-posts keep moving, we are better off on our own.

 

[NickW + 2,714]

2 minutes ago, Wombat said:

Not so much a case of being worried. Just sick of being jacked around. We simply want to know whether we are in an alliance or not, and if so, what it entails. If the goal-posts keep moving, we are better off on our own.

 

You need a fleet of Astute Subs. That would put off any Chinese adventures in our waters. 

[frankfurter + 562]

17 minutes ago, Wombat said:

Not so much a case of being worried. Just sick of being jacked around. We simply want to know whether we are in an alliance or not, and if so, what it entails. If the goal-posts keep moving, we are better off on our own.

 

uh, exactly.  when are dumbshit Aussies gonna learn Kissinger's basic lesson:  it's better to be America's enemy than her friend.  ?   then, when are you gonna learn what history teaches about alliances?  you think aussies will be used for anything other than front-line fodder, as you were so used in WW 1 and 2?  unless, of course, you are itching for a total war to the last cockroach? 

[frankfurter + 562]

1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

Joe seems to owe quite a few people.

there is more truth to your comment than you may realise.

[Wombat + 1,028]

27 minutes ago, NickW said:

You need a fleet of Astute Subs. That would put off any Chinese adventures in our waters. 

True. Hopefully the French design will do the same. 

[frankfurter + 562]

2 hours ago, Wombat said:

Frankfurter seems to have missed someting. The USA is still BY FAR the world most powerful military, and I will soon have them biting China's arse. I have Biden in my pocket, he owe's me.

It's true. America has sufficient weapons to destroy the world 10x over, and has used nuclear forces prior. I admit China has only enough to destroy the world 1x over, soon to be 2x over, and has never used nuclear prior (nor chemical, nor phosphor, nor a host of other hideous evils).

Makes you sleep better?

 

[Rob Plant + 2,756]

44 minutes ago, NickW said:

You need a fleet of Astute Subs. That would put off any Chinese adventures in our waters. 

Yep alongside the new Dreadnought ones currently being built

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

46 minutes ago, Wombat said:

Not so much a case of being worried. Just sick of being jacked around. We simply want to know whether we are in an alliance or not, and if so, what it entails. If the goal-posts keep moving, we are better off on our own.

 

Well, I'm not sure you're better off on your own.  But I get your point.  So, which president do you think would quickly and firmly stand by Australia's side in an armed conflict?  Biden or Trump?

[Wombat + 1,028]

11 minutes ago, frankfurter said:

uh, exactly.  when are dumbshit Aussies gonna learn Kissinger's basic lesson:  it's better to be America's enemy than her friend.  ?   then, when are you gonna learn what history teaches about alliances?  you think aussies will be used for anything other than front-line fodder, as you were so used in WW 1 and 2?  unless, of course, you are itching for a total war to the last cockroach? 

Kissinger was the dumbass, and so are you. And yes, I am itching for a total war to the last cockroach, simply because I know that is what China wants. That is precisely what China is preparing for. Thing is, the longer China can delay it, the better her chances of winning. That is why she uses "useful idiots" such as Kissinger and every other twit until Trump came along, to dominate the global economy on the back of our own capital and technology, in order to become so powerful that we cannot resist. We only have 3-5 years of military superiority left. We must strike now, or forever hold our "peace". Otherwise, our only option is to deploy nuclear weapons. The time for talk is over as far as I am concerned. If Biden does not recognise the independence of Taiwan within his first 12 months, and wipe out the Chinese Navy, then nuclear war it must eventually be. The Doomsday clock is but 15 seconds from midnight, and not due to climate change. Every year that the West fails to confront Chinese ambition, is a year in which the eventual death tally will grow. Even Secretary Pompeo seems to think that a simple show of force will be sufficient to maintain "peace".  The naivete goes right to the top. The Wuhan virus was a horrific act of war, but the Chinese calculated (correctly), that our dumbass politicians would internalise the damage and the blame. You would think the West would be internally united against China, but the only country that has been united by the virus is their own. Am I pissed off about this? You bet. That is why I advised Trump to start a war with China while he had the chance. That is the only way Biden can unite the USA. There won't be any "healing" when the recession goes deep into it's double-dip. Just more pathetic bickering over stimulus packages that no-one can afford. We either confront China, or get steam-rolled by her. The fact that even Trump was too gutless to face this reality perhaps says it all. Maybe Kamala has some balls tucked away somewhere?

 

[RichieRich216 + 454]

China entire existence has been built on stealing what they are not capable of inventing, From entry to the WTO and there destroying of all in country’s natural resources to the currency fraud it now DEPENDS on other countries natural resources to continue to expand. They need to be hel accountable for the Biological Attack on the world with COVID-19. At some point a billion Chinese people are going to wake up and see there living like it was 1901 while the Ruling Class lives like kings.

[NickW + 2,714]

1 hour ago, Wombat said:

True. Hopefully the French design will do the same. 

Problem is they are diesel. Gotta come up for air at some point. 

[frankfurter + 562]

11 hours ago, Wombat said:

Kissinger was the dumbass, and so are you. And yes, I am itching for a total war to the last cockroach, simply because I know that is what China wants. That is precisely what China is preparing for. Thing is, the longer China can delay it, the better her chances of winning. That is why she uses "useful idiots" such as Kissinger and every other twit until Trump came along, to dominate the global economy on the back of our own capital and technology, in order to become so powerful that we cannot resist. We only have 3-5 years of military superiority left. We must strike now, or forever hold our "peace". Otherwise, our only option is to deploy nuclear weapons. The time for talk is over as far as I am concerned. If Biden does not recognise the independence of Taiwan within his first 12 months, and wipe out the Chinese Navy, then nuclear war it must eventually be. The Doomsday clock is but 15 seconds from midnight, and not due to climate change. Every year that the West fails to confront Chinese ambition, is a year in which the eventual death tally will grow. Even Secretary Pompeo seems to think that a simple show of force will be sufficient to maintain "peace".  The naivete goes right to the top. The Wuhan virus was a horrific act of war, but the Chinese calculated (correctly), that our dumbass politicians would internalise the damage and the blame. You would think the West would be internally united against China, but the only country that has been united by the virus is their own. Am I pissed off about this? You bet. That is why I advised Trump to start a war with China while he had the chance. That is the only way Biden can unite the USA. There won't be any "healing" when the recession goes deep into it's double-dip. Just more pathetic bickering over stimulus packages that no-one can afford. We either confront China, or get steam-rolled by her. The fact that even Trump was too gutless to face this reality perhaps says it all. Maybe Kamala has some balls tucked away somewhere?

 

thanks for your tough-talk, hysterical response. well, wars are fought to gain something, not to lose something. I'm curious to know what you would hope to gain from a war to the last cockroach. genocide? a radioactive Pacific Ocean?

[frankfurter + 562]

10 hours ago, RichieRich216 said:

China entire existence has been built on stealing what they are not capable of inventing, From entry to the WTO and there destroying of all in country’s natural resources to the currency fraud it now DEPENDS on other countries natural resources to continue to expand. They need to be hel accountable for the Biological Attack on the world with COVID-19. At some point a billion Chinese people are going to wake up and see there living like it was 1901 while the Ruling Class lives like kings.

Can you prove even 1 item that was stolen?

Do you deny the SARS-CoV was 1st developed and patented in the USA during 2007? 

Do you deny traces of Covid19 were discovered in sewage by scientists at University of Barcelona during March 2019, nine months before the Wuhan outbreak?

Do you deny the study by Cambridge that identifies 3 sequences for Covid?

Are you aware Covid19 is transmitted not only via air, but also by contact with contaminated surfaces? 

[Wombat + 1,028]

On 11/13/2020 at 1:41 AM, NickW said:

Problem is they are diesel. Gotta come up for air at some point. 

Indeed. We won't even have the first one in service until 2035, by which time they will be obsolete. I have tried numerous times to try convince the govt to get at least 4 nuclear powered subs ASAP but they won't budge. They think China will not attack us until 2050 and that the yanks will be militarily superior until then. They are extremely naive. Even the ADF doesn't like nuclear because we cannot build them ourselves. They reckon we wouldn't even be capable of maintaining them for some strange reason. There are clearly no scientists involved in the Defence acquisition apparatus any longer. Our politics has become very myopic. I had plenty of influence under Tony Abbott, and Gillard before that, but Turnbull and Morrison have been a disaster when it comes to defence policy. They are simply not interested in it. We are spending near-record amounts, but will get very little bang for our buck. We also desperately need 2 Ford-class carriers from the US, with another 400 JSF. Only then will Australia be the "middle power" that our govt likes to think we are. Our Navy is absolutely tiny compared to others in the region, and so is our air-force. With a tiny pop'n, our Army will always be negligible, so we need to make up for it with out-sized Navy and Air-force. I don't think my govt will understand that until it too late. They bought 2 amphibious landing ships with runways, but the decks are not reinforced to handle jet exhaust. Talk about dumb. The Japanese made the same mistake, but are now converting their 2 amphibious boats into aircraft carriers. Our dopey govt won't do the same coz they scared of upsetting China. As I say, politics is getting in the way of good defence policy here. That is the real reason they won't buy nuclear subs, or aircraft carriers. Don't ask me how the heck we gonna secure our oil supply without them. Let alone prevent the Chinese invasion of all our Pacific neighbours. All this money we spending is gonna be complete waste of time unless we dig that little bit deeper IMHO.

[frankfurter + 562]

6 minutes ago, Wombat said:

Indeed. We won't even have the first one in service until 2035, by which time they will be obsolete. I have tried numerous times to try convince the govt to get at least 4 nuclear powered subs ASAP but they won't budge. They think China will not attack us until 2050 and that the yanks will be militarily superior until then. They are extremely naive. Even the ADF doesn't like nuclear because we cannot build them ourselves. They reckon we wouldn't even be capable of maintaining them for some strange reason. There are clearly no scientists involved in the Defence acquisition apparatus any longer. Our politics has become very myopic. I had plenty of influence under Tony Abbott, and Gillard before that, but Turnbull and Morrison have been a disaster when it comes to defence policy. They are simply not interested in it. We are spending near-record amounts, but will get very little bang for our buck. We also desperately need 2 Ford-class carriers from the US, with another 400 JSF. Only then will Australia be the "middle power" that our govt likes to think we are. Our Navy is absolutely tiny compared to others in the region, and so is our air-force. With a tiny pop'n, our Army will always be negligible, so we need to make up for it with out-sized Navy and Air-force. I don't think my govt will understand that until it too late. They bought 2 amphibious landing ships with runways, but the decks are not reinforced to handle jet exhaust. Talk about dumb. The Japanese made the same mistake, but are now converting their 2 amphibious boats into aircraft carriers. Our dopey govt won't do the same coz they scared of upsetting China. As I say, politics is getting in the way of good defence policy here. That is the real reason they won't buy nuclear subs, or aircraft carriers. Don't ask me how the heck we gonna secure our oil supply without them. Let alone prevent the Chinese invasion of all our Pacific neighbours. All this money we spending is gonna be complete waste of time unless we dig that little bit deeper IMHO.

uh, if you are so worried about defence, why is your govt floating its warship in the S China Sea?  the SCS is somehow part of aussie territory?  face it, Australia is nothing more than the USA lapdog. you were nothing but cannon fodder in WW1 and 2, and will be same in WW3. a pity to see such a fine country and people reduce themselves to this level. what has conflict ever begotten your country? your recent loss of trade is simple proof you gain more by cooperation than by aggression.  but, I know, no need to tell me, these words fall upon the blind.

 

 

[Wombat + 1,028]

Here is one for Oro:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-13/panic-in-china-s-credit-market-spills-over-to-financial-stocks?srnd=premium-asia

[0R0 + 6,251]

It had to come.

This is an interesting interview between two China hands, one new one old. Kyle Bass, and Michael Pettis

Note that Pettis is pointing out that the main driver of China's financial circumstances is the need to grow the money supply without increasing domestic debt, which is already bearing heavily on China's economy. And Wombat's reference is pointing out that the financial system is snowballing ever faster, such that the attempts to stop it are being overwhelmed.

Unlike Michael Pettis' interpretation, Bass is seeing, as do I this need for dollars to keep Evergrande afloat. The Bloomberg article points out that AAA credits in China are yielding junk bond levels with spreads to treasuries having increased by 1.9%

Another point Pettis brings up that I rarely pay attention to is personal debt in China, particularly as it removes the growth of their small and shrinking Millennial consumption wave's purchasing power. Without that power, the marginal value of output falls behind marginal input costs, producing negative cash flows.

The Coal companies that have seen their customers providing free electricity and margin-less steel output to the new high tech automated industrial plant are not being paid and are at the end of the default chain in industry. They will have to be bailed out one way or the other, since China needs them to continue producing. The bail out would require large scale money printing that may once again cause a surge in food prices. Which in turn further suppresses consumer demand for industrial output. Shrinking corporate cash flows further.

8 hours ago, Wombat said:

Here is one for Oro:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-11-13/panic-in-china-s-credit-market-spills-over-to-financial-stocks?srnd=premium-asia

The estimates of NPLs are NOT what the officials and even SP global are putting out, they are significantly larger at around 23% - confirming Mchael Pettis' point that the Chinese banking system is inherently insolvent.

"The industry’s non-performing loans climbed to a record 2.84 trillion yuan as of Sept. 30, according to the banking regulator. S&P Global estimated earlier this year that the non-performing asset ratio, a more stringent measure of troubled advances that includes forborne loans, could almost double to 10% from pre-outbreak levels this year. That’s a projected increase of 8 trillion yuan. "