Evidence is evidence, voter fraud by state

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

Correct no children. 

I do have a lovely lady partner though, she is working from home right next to me now. 

I could have a kid but they are expensive I hear. I have 3 nieces and one nephew, that's enough breeding.

Good. The last thing Canada needs is more breeding from the likes of you. 

 

I have 3 children and 2 grandchildren so far, and our progeny will continue to produce, whereas your legacy will be dust and worms. 

 

Perfect. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

I just heard that Trump is trying to pardon Mohammed bin Salmon. If he does this, I am out, and I have been one of his most vocal supporters.

There was a sad day in April or May when I and many others paid $47/barrel to have good sweet light oil carried away, whilst the president was bragging about energy independence. Harold Hamm, one of the president's biggest supporters, got in his jet and flew from Oklahoma City to Washington, DC to beg the president to tell Mohammed bin Salmon to turn around some 22 Very Large Crude Carriers, carrying 55M barrels of crude bound for Port Arthur. There have been all sorts of guys come on this forum and say that didn't make a whit of difference . . . but it did. With the Cushing Hub full and the Saudis selling off the boat in Port Arthur, the price went turtle. 

But this isn't about that. This is about the fact that the KSA has been on the hook for twenty years for the 9/11 catastrophe. All it would take is the stroke of a pen and the survivors and families of those 3,000 souls could sue the KSA into oblivion. A pardon would reverse that. Obviously, Prince ObS was a teenager at that time, but then there's Khassoggi. 

Any American who doesn't hold contempt for the KSA after the embargo, 9/11, Khasshoggi, then the duel flooding of the oil market doesn't understand history. I will confess to holding more than your usual amount of venom for Saudi Arabia. And I can't help it. If this president doesn't see through the vapors of the past, come to the realization that we probably don't need Saudi Arabia, but if--for sure--he is tainted by the promise of business dealings with the kingdom, then he deserves to be gone and even indicted. 

I am a lot of things. Honesty is my strong suit. I have preached to the lefties on this site. If our sitting president pardons Mohammed bin Salmon, I apologize to each one of you. And with this, I am truly out: I cannot stand the stench.

[0R0 + 6,251]

44 minutes ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

I just heard that Trump is trying to pardon Mohammed bin Salmon. If he does this, I am out, and I have been one of his most vocal supporters.

There was a sad day in April or May when I and many others paid $47/barrel to have good sweet light oil carried away, whilst the president was bragging about energy independence. Harold Hamm, one of the president's biggest supporters, got in his jet and flew from Oklahoma City to Washington, DC to beg the president to tell Mohammed bin Salmon to turn around some 22 Very Large Crude Carriers, carrying 55M barrels of crude bound for Port Arthur. There have been all sorts of guys come on this forum and say that didn't make a whit of difference . . . but it did. With the Cushing Hub full and the Saudis selling off the boat in Port Arthur, the price went turtle. 

But this isn't about that. This is about the fact that the KSA has been on the hook for twenty years for the 9/11 catastrophe. All it would take is the stroke of a pen and the survivors and families of those 3,000 souls could sue the KSA into oblivion. A pardon would reverse that. Obviously, Prince ObS was a teenager at that time, but then there's Khassoggi. 

Any American who doesn't hold contempt for the KSA after the embargo, 9/11, Khasshoggi, then the duel flooding of the oil market doesn't understand history. I will confess to holding more than your usual amount of venom for Saudi Arabia. And I can't help it. If this president doesn't see through the vapors of the past, come to the realization that we probably don't need Saudi Arabia, but if--for sure--he is tainted by the promise of business dealings with the kingdom, then he deserves to be gone and even indicted. 

I am a lot of things. Honesty is my strong suit. I have preached to the lefties on this site. If our sitting president pardons Mohammed bin Salmon, I apologize to each one of you. And with this, I am truly out: I cannot stand the stench.

I don''t  expect him to issue a pardon, but I do see that MBS was a key ally to Trump against the moneyed elite and their China partner, that could actually fund some heavy lifting. That was why Trump didn't attempt to turn their tankers  back. Besides which, their heavy oil was actually necessary to process the light frack crude, though not all 22 tanker's worth were needed. As we had seen, further tankers did not come in and the damage to Russia, was just as bad or worse.

I don't know what the details of the deal with MBS are, but it is obvious there is one, as that is what is allowing the US to leave the ME alone for the most part and have Israel be the advanced military support for the Arab nations opposing Iran. And what is preventing Saudi from funding its radical ISIS footsoldiers. It is a terrific outcome for the US. I think it is a bigger deal than the downsides you pointed to.

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

just heard that Trump is trying to pardon Mohammed bin Salmon.

Where did you hear this? 

A pardon makes no sense, he's not charged with a crime and would have almost been a teenager on 9/11/01. The stupidity of creating the oil crash had long term implications for KSA. Some good, more bad. Extremely long term it could be beneficial if enough oil cos go bankrupt here, their problem is they could go bankrupt. 

Here's The real list of pardons. BTW the size of this list is miniscule compared to Obama, Clinton and Bush admins

Edited December 23, 2020 by Ward Smith

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

20 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

Where did you hear this? 

A pardon makes no sense, he's not charged with a crime and would have almost been a teenager on 9/11/01. The stupidity of creating the oil crash had long term implications for KSA. Some good, more bad. Extremely long term it could be beneficial if enough oil cos go bankrupt here, their problem is they could go bankrupt. 

It's not about 9/11 it's about the reporter who got murdered.

 

Also try Google...

Edited December 23, 2020 by Enthalpic

[LANDMAN X + 181]

1 hour ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

Any American who doesn't hold contempt for the KSA after the embargo, 9/11, Khasshoggi, then the duel flooding of the oil market doesn't understand history. I will confess to holding more than your usual amount of venom for Saudi Arabia. And I can't help it. If this president doesn't see through the vapors of the past, come to the realization that we probably don't need Saudi Arabia, but if--for sure--he is tainted by the promise of business dealings with the kingdom, then he deserves to be gone and even indicted. 

I am a lot of things. Honesty is my strong suit. I have preached to the lefties on this site. If our sitting president pardons Mohammed bin Salmon, I apologize to each one of you. And with this, I am truly out: I cannot stand the stench.

Please don't go.  Have enjoyed your posts for long time!  After election, let's get into some serious discussions on what most of us know here...  Oil and Gas exploration and new discoveries.  You have too much knowledge and write so well.  Especially talented with your words.  Stick around.. ride this out and ignore some of the distractions on  this site.  So much voting fraud out in open that scares any of us in future elections? 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

13 minutes ago, LANDMAN X said:

Please don't go.  Have enjoyed your posts for long time!  After election, let's get into some serious discussions on what most of us know here...  Oil and Gas exploration and new discoveries.  You have too much knowledge and write so well.  Especially talented with your words.  Stick around.. ride this out and ignore some of the distractions on  this site.  So much voting fraud out in open that scares any of us in future elections? 

The election is over, chat about oil.

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

Mohammed bin Salmon needs immunity . . . especially from the United States heading a world tribunal. 

1. 9/11. MbS was indeed a kid, but his country spawned the terror attack. If the family members of all 3,000 souls lost that day sue for damages, there is no court in the land that wouldn't hand them what they ask for. It would bankrupt the KSA. And damn good riddance!

2. The murder and dismemberment of Jamil Khashoggi. There also isn't a reasonable reader of the news who doesn't think that MbS was directly responsible for that. 

3. Subsequent murders. 

There is absolutely nothing so big that it transcends allowing MbS to fall on his sword. Perhaps a shortage of heavy oil will force the buildout of a much-needed pipeline from Canada. Or equally as good, force refineries to perform the retooling to handle light sweet crude. As to China, at the same time MbS was sending the 22 VLCC's to Port Arthur, he was discounting oil to President Xi. And not just by a fraction, by a lot--he was supporting the very country that launched biological warfare on the United States and the whole world! As to an agreement of the KSA with Israel, MbS was set to meet with Netanyahu when the votes came in. The peace accord was cancelled summarily. 

Through the years I have learned to hate Saudi Arabia. They are not to be trusted. When a guy like Harold Hamm gets on a plane and flies up to DC in the midst of a pandemic and literally pleads with the president to order MbS to turn those ships around, and he doesn't do it, then something is dead in Denmark. Exxon (Saudi-Exxon some call it) wanted the ships to dock in Port Arthur. Harold Hamm went back and literally shut in several hundred wells (I know, I was part owner of a few of them) rather than pay a takeaway fee. Ask Mr. Hamm what he thinks about granting immunity to MbS. 

The whole idea of even mulling about the possibility of immunity to MbS makes me sick to my stomach. This is about immorality that supersedes the cost of doing business. For a long while, the Bush Family treated the House of Saud like family. We needed the oil. Now there's way too much oil, and we can easily get heavy oil from elsewhere. No, I'm afraid the concept of immunity has far more nefarious tentacles than those that have been articulated. 

Trump Hotel Riyadh? Or Mecca or Medina? I really have no idea, but you don't think of doing something this godawful egregious (granting immunity to butchers) without a very compelling reason. I mean, give me a break! Fifteen of the eighteen terrorists involved in 9/11 were Saudis. Saudi Arabia was in the business of training terrorists. So what do we say to those thousands affected by the greatest terrorist attack on U.S. soil (before COVID-19)? We thought we might need the oil? Or maybe there's a hotel in the future? What do you say to those people? 

I'll tell you what you say: We are establishing a tribunal to investigate the 9/11 terror attack from A to Z. And when we find out for sure which country was responsible for that, we're going to allow you to sue them in New York District Court for war crimes, damages to lives and properties, and just to be sure we're going to freeze KSA holdings in Citigroup, Goldman-Sachs, Morgan-Stanley. And if that doesn't cover the bill, then we'll requisition their oilfields until all damages are paid in full. On the other hand, if such a tribunal doesn't find them guilty, then we'll give them a hearty apology and it's business as usual. Translation: They can try to bankrupt our shale basins another couple of times, maybe kill and dismember another journalist or two.  

Immunity? The very consideration makes me sick unto death!

[LiamP + 168]

Totally agree.

However, I wouldn't be at all surprised if some of the company you keep here believe it was the Dems/Deep State/whatever who were responsible for 9/11. 🤪

[El Nikko + 2,145]

18 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

I just heard that Trump is trying to pardon Mohammed bin Salmon. If he does this, I am out, and I have been one of his most vocal supporters.

There was a sad day in April or May when I and many others paid $47/barrel to have good sweet light oil carried away, whilst the president was bragging about energy independence. Harold Hamm, one of the president's biggest supporters, got in his jet and flew from Oklahoma City to Washington, DC to beg the president to tell Mohammed bin Salmon to turn around some 22 Very Large Crude Carriers, carrying 55M barrels of crude bound for Port Arthur. There have been all sorts of guys come on this forum and say that didn't make a whit of difference . . . but it did. With the Cushing Hub full and the Saudis selling off the boat in Port Arthur, the price went turtle. 

But this isn't about that. This is about the fact that the KSA has been on the hook for twenty years for the 9/11 catastrophe. All it would take is the stroke of a pen and the survivors and families of those 3,000 souls could sue the KSA into oblivion. A pardon would reverse that. Obviously, Prince ObS was a teenager at that time, but then there's Khassoggi. 

Any American who doesn't hold contempt for the KSA after the embargo, 9/11, Khasshoggi, then the duel flooding of the oil market doesn't understand history. I will confess to holding more than your usual amount of venom for Saudi Arabia. And I can't help it. If this president doesn't see through the vapors of the past, come to the realization that we probably don't need Saudi Arabia, but if--for sure--he is tainted by the promise of business dealings with the kingdom, then he deserves to be gone and even indicted. 

I am a lot of things. Honesty is my strong suit. I have preached to the lefties on this site. If our sitting president pardons Mohammed bin Salmon, I apologize to each one of you. And with this, I am truly out: I cannot stand the stench.

Hi Gerry where did you read that he was going to pardon MBS?

Do Presidents pardon foreign politicians ever?

[Jeffrey Brown + 207]

One thing that puzzles me about the Deep State conspiracy to steal the election from Trump is that they conspired to make Biden President, but they conspired to almost deliver the House to the GOP?

And it's curious that a bunch of wackos and True Believers drinking the Trump Kool-Aid can see election fraud that the Trump appointed Attorney General can't see. 

In any case, as I noted previously, pretty soon I assume that the True Believers will wrap up their search for non-existent widespread election fraud and continue their searches for unicorns, Big Foot and the Loch Ness monster. 

Despite Trump’s intense hunt for voter fraud, officials in key states have so far identified just a small number of possible cases

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/voter-fraud-investigations-2020/2020/12/22/bdbe541c-42de-11eb-b0e4-0f182923a025_story.html

Excerpt:

In Pittsburgh, the local police department this year received 10 complaints of possible fraudulent voting in the November election. Eight of those cases have already been closed without charges or findings of wrongdoing.

Wisconsin officials have charged one woman with voter fraud — a resident of suburban Milwaukee accused of attempting to cast a ballot in the name of her partner, who died in July.

In Michigan, two people have been charged with fraud, both accused of forging the names of their own daughters to obtain or cast a ballot.

After an intense hunt by President Trump’s allies to surface voting irregularities in this year’s election, law enforcement agencies in six key swing states targeted by the president have found just a modest number of complaints that have merited investigation, according to cases tracked by state officials.

So far, only a handful of cases have resulted in actual criminal charges alleging wrongdoing — some of them against Republican voters aiming to help Trump, according to officials, including a man charged Monday with trying to cast a ballot in Pennsylvania for the president in the name of his deceased mother.

The tiny number of incidents further undercuts Trump’s barrage of false allegations that there was widespread manipulation of the vote — claims that continue to be echoed by many Republican officials, including some who acknowledge President-elect Joe Biden’s victory, but assert that fraud was prevalent.

[Jeffrey Brown + 207]

Re:  Trump Vetoing the Defense Bill. I wonder if in some corner of Trump’s addled brain that he’s thinking of a deal with Congress, to-wit, he won’t wreck the country and the economy, and God knows do what else, if they award the swing state Electors to him?

It could be that  the veto and threatened COVID relief bill veto are  just retribution for McCconnell and others  acknowledging the reality that Biden won.  

In any case, I would think that the two GOP Senators in Georgia are feeling a little awkward now; they had been running ads touting their ability to work with trump to get the COVID relief bill passed.

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

19 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

But this isn't about that. This is about the fact that the KSA has been on the hook for twenty years for the 9/11 catastrophe. All it would take is the stroke of a pen and the survivors and families of those 3,000 souls could sue the KSA into oblivion

Yes.   Those families have been long at it.  I would like to see this happen.

If that legislation ever occurs, it also opens the door for some American companies like Chiquita to be sued in International Court.,  Actually, Chiquita has lobbied against the KSA lawsuit because they want to protect themselves.

Edited December 23, 2020 by Tom Nolan

[JoMack + 547]

So what is up with Biden's first interview with a comedian, pretending to be a journalist, pretending to be non-partisan, while "Dr." Jill smiles with a wide eyed look at husband Joe.  The guy asks if Biden is angry about the negative remarks about his son Hunter Biden.  Biden looks at the guy with a sort of smirk and says "of course I'm angry!  If I were younger, like 18, I'd go ahead and take them out the back..." but he is interrupted with a wave in front of his face by his soon to be (God forbid) Dr. First Lady Elect, or is it First Lady Elect "Dr" Jill, who stops Biden from going into another off the rails goof, and says "we'll take the high road".  

If this guy got 11 million more votes than Obama, I'm putting a crown on my head and calling myself the Queen of England - Elect.

[0R0 + 6,251]

2 hours ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

One thing that puzzles me about the Deep State conspiracy to steal the election from Trump is that they conspired to make Biden President, but they conspired to almost deliver the House to the GOP?

And it's curious that a bunch of wackos and True Believers drinking the Trump Kool-Aid can see election fraud that the Trump appointed Attorney General can't see. 

In any case, as I noted previously, pretty soon I assume that the True Believers will wrap up their search for non-existent widespread election fraud and continue their searches for unicorns, Big Foot and the Loch Ness monster. 

Despite Trump’s intense hunt for voter fraud, officials in key states have so far identified just a small number of possible cases

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/voter-fraud-investigations-2020/2020/12/22/bdbe541c-42de-11eb-b0e4-0f182923a025_story.html

Excerpt:

In Pittsburgh, the local police department this year received 10 complaints of possible fraudulent voting in the November election. Eight of those cases have already been closed without charges or findings of wrongdoing.

Wisconsin officials have charged one woman with voter fraud — a resident of suburban Milwaukee accused of attempting to cast a ballot in the name of her partner, who died in July.

In Michigan, two people have been charged with fraud, both accused of forging the names of their own daughters to obtain or cast a ballot.

After an intense hunt by President Trump’s allies to surface voting irregularities in this year’s election, law enforcement agencies in six key swing states targeted by the president have found just a modest number of complaints that have merited investigation, according to cases tracked by state officials.

So far, only a handful of cases have resulted in actual criminal charges alleging wrongdoing — some of them against Republican voters aiming to help Trump, according to officials, including a man charged Monday with trying to cast a ballot in Pennsylvania for the president in the name of his deceased mother.

The tiny number of incidents further undercuts Trump’s barrage of false allegations that there was widespread manipulation of the vote — claims that continue to be echoed by many Republican officials, including some who acknowledge President-elect Joe Biden’s victory, but assert that fraud was prevalent.

Foxes guarding chicken coops rarely find that the bloodied feathers surrounding them are evidence of foul play by foxes against chickens. Nor do they see potbellied foxes as possible perpetrators. Nor do the videos of foxes munching chickens in the coop actually mean what was seen, it is normal assistance to chickens.

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

6 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Foxes guarding chicken coops rarely find that the bloodied feathers surrounding them are evidence of foul play by foxes against chickens. Nor do they see potbellied foxes as possible perpetrators. Nor do the videos of foxes munching chickens in the coop actually mean what was seen, it is normal assistance to chickens.

Foxes will always outwit chickens.

[LANDMAN X + 181]

Georgia Judiciary Committee Votes On Fraud Report, Says There May Be Enough Evidence to Decertify Biden Vote

 

The main stream media failed to report on this huge development on Monday.  Like Ward has said before, nothing to report here?…or was it ORO?

On Monday evening, Georgia Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee voted on an election fraud report, stating that there was enough evidence of fraud to decertify Biden's win in the state. The main stream media failed to report on this huge development.

Steve Bannon talked about the breaking story on his show "The War Room Pandemic" on Tuesday.

 

"Last night in Georgia the Judiciary Committee on the senate voted on a report," Bannon said. "This report that there were so many outrageous election irregularities and so much “evidence” CNN, “evidence” Brian Stelter, “evidence,” “evidence,” that they have said that the Georgia assembly should immediately come into session in a special session. They should discuss this. The Democrats should throw their two cents in, they should debate this, the evidence, and their recommendation is there is enough evidence to decertify!"

 

https://trendingpolitics.com/georgia-judiciary-committee-votes-on-fraud-report-says-there-may-be-enough-evidence-to-decertify-biden-vote/

[LANDMAN X + 181]

Wonder how many in government are paying attention to what Trump is doing now? We "the people are"!!

2020 Election Investigative Documentary: Who’s Stealing America?

https://www.theepochtimes.com/trump-floats-idea-of-special-counsel-to-investigate-election-fraud-allegations_3631178.html

https://www.theepochtimes.com/2020-election-investigation-who-is-stealing-america_3617562.html

 

 

 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

4 hours ago, Jeffrey Brown said:

One thing that puzzles me about the Deep State conspiracy to steal the election from Trump is that they conspired to make Biden President, but they conspired to almost deliver the House to the GOP?

And it's curious that a bunch of wackos and True Believers drinking the Trump Kool-Aid can see election fraud that the Trump appointed Attorney General can't see. 

In any case, as I noted previously, pretty soon I assume that the True Believers will wrap up their search for non-existent widespread election fraud and continue their searches for unicorns, Big Foot and the Loch Ness monster. 

Despite Trump’s intense hunt for voter fraud, officials in key states have so far identified just a small number of possible cases

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/voter-fraud-investigations-2020/2020/12/22/bdbe541c-42de-11eb-b0e4-0f182923a025_story.html

Excerpt:

In Pittsburgh, the local police department this year received 10 complaints of possible fraudulent voting in the November election. Eight of those cases have already been closed without charges or findings of wrongdoing.

Wisconsin officials have charged one woman with voter fraud — a resident of suburban Milwaukee accused of attempting to cast a ballot in the name of her partner, who died in July.

In Michigan, two people have been charged with fraud, both accused of forging the names of their own daughters to obtain or cast a ballot.

After an intense hunt by President Trump’s allies to surface voting irregularities in this year’s election, law enforcement agencies in six key swing states targeted by the president have found just a modest number of complaints that have merited investigation, according to cases tracked by state officials.

So far, only a handful of cases have resulted in actual criminal charges alleging wrongdoing — some of them against Republican voters aiming to help Trump, according to officials, including a man charged Monday with trying to cast a ballot in Pennsylvania for the president in the name of his deceased mother.

The tiny number of incidents further undercuts Trump’s barrage of false allegations that there was widespread manipulation of the vote — claims that continue to be echoed by many Republican officials, including some who acknowledge President-elect Joe Biden’s victory, but assert that fraud was prevalent.

Your slavish devotion to the WaPo compost fodder is no doubt appreciated by its owner, the richest man in the world. 

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, LANDMAN X said:

Georgia Judiciary Committee Votes On Fraud Report, Says There May Be Enough Evidence to Decertify Biden Vote

 

The main stream media failed to report on this huge development on Monday.  Like Ward has said before, nothing to report here?…or was it ORO?

On Monday evening, Georgia Republicans on the Senate Judiciary Committee voted on an election fraud report, stating that there was enough evidence of fraud to decertify Biden's win in the state. The main stream media failed to report on this huge development.

Steve Bannon talked about the breaking story on his show "The War Room Pandemic" on Tuesday.

 

"Last night in Georgia the Judiciary Committee on the senate voted on a report," Bannon said. "This report that there were so many outrageous election irregularities and so much “evidence” CNN, “evidence” Brian Stelter, “evidence,” “evidence,” that they have said that the Georgia assembly should immediately come into session in a special session. They should discuss this. The Democrats should throw their two cents in, they should debate this, the evidence, and their recommendation is there is enough evidence to decertify!"

 

https://trendingpolitics.com/georgia-judiciary-committee-votes-on-fraud-report-says-there-may-be-enough-evidence-to-decertify-biden-vote/

It was me, but @0R0 is usually all over this stuff as well. I even posted a link to their 15 page report, lest some low IQ interlocutor here claim I didn't have evidence. But as you've seen, they're unable to stand toe to toe with me and only take snarky potshots from the peanut gallery or go to straight up invective to try and start a fight and run to mommy to have the thread locked. Cancel culture indeed. 

Interestingly, by ignoring the corrupt MSM propaganda mill and calling them out for their blatant hypocrisy, we can only attempt to free enslaved minds like @Jeffrey Brown. @EnthalpicIs a completely lost cause, there's no mind there to enslave. 

[Enthalpic + 1,496]

52 minutes ago, Ward Smith said:

It was me, but @0R0 is usually all over this stuff as well. I even posted a link to their 15 page report, lest some low IQ interlocutor here claim I didn't have evidence. But as you've seen, they're unable to stand toe to toe with me and only take snarky potshots from the peanut gallery or go to straight up invective to try and start a fight and run to mommy to have the thread locked. Cancel culture indeed. 

Interestingly, by ignoring the corrupt MSM propaganda mill and calling them out for their blatant hypocrisy, we can only attempt to free enslaved minds like @Jeffrey Brown. @EnthalpicIs a completely lost cause, there's no mind there to enslave. 

The guy who says he ignores me claims I can't stand toe-to toe-with him.  Ward logic... not entering the race is winning.  Why mention me constantly if you don't care?

0R0 is always wrong, look at the data...

Keep doubling down on failure trump cult - it is very entertaining.

 

Edited December 24, 2020 by Enthalpic

[notsonice + 1,062]

6 hours ago, El Nikko said:

Hi Gerry where did you read that he was going to pardon MBS?

Do Presidents pardon foreign politicians ever?

The Trump administration is mulling immunity for Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed, who is accused of sending a hit squad to kill an exiled spy chief

Bill Bostock

Tue, December 22, 2020, 3:48 AM MST

 

 

US Secretary of State Mike Pompeo shakes hands with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman in Jeddah, Saudi Arabia, on September 18, 2019. Bandar Algaloud/Reuters

• The US government is deciding whether to offer immunity to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who is accused of trying to assassinate an exiled Saudi official, The Washington Post reported.

• Saad al-Jabri, who previously worked in the top ranks of the Saudi Interior Ministry, sued Crown Prince Mohammed in a US federal court in August, claiming the prince sent a hit squad to kill him in Canada in October 2018.

• The prince rejected the allegations in a December 7 motion to dismiss the suit, arguing that the crown prince is immune from prosecution as a head of state.

• According to The Post, the State Department had asked al-Jabri's lawyers in November to offer their legal opinion on whether they should grant immunity to Crown Prince Mohammed.

• Al-Jabri's son, Khalid, told The Post that granting the crown prince immunity "is like issuing a license to kill."

• Visit Business Insider's homepage for more stories.

President Donald Trump's administration is deciding whether to offer immunity to Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, who was accused in a US federal court of trying to kill an exiled spy chief, The Washington Post reported Monday.

In August, Saad al-Jabri, who spent decades at the top of the Saudi Interior Ministry, sued Crown Prince Mohammed in a federal court in Washington, DC, claiming a hit squad was sent to kill him in Toronto, Canada, in October 2018.

Canadian border agents denied entry to the hit squad, known as the "Tiger Squad Defendants," the complaint said. 

According to The Post, lawyers for al-Jabri received a letter in November from the US State Department asking for their legal views on whether it would be right to grant immunity to the crown prince.

A major line of defense submitted by Crown Prince Mohammed's lawyer, Michael Kellogg, in a motion to dismiss the claim filed on December 7, 2020, was that, as a world leader, the prince was immune from prosecution.

"The immunity of foreign officials from suit in the United States is governed by the doctrine of common-law foreign sovereign immunity," Kellogg wrote in the 69-page filing.

The motion to dismiss did not explicitly counter any of al-Jabri's allegations, and instead focused on undermining his legal arguments.

It is not clear if there was any communication between the crown prince's lawyers and the State Department officials who were deciding whether to grant immunity.

A US State Department spokesperson told Insider the department does not comment on pending litigation.

Kellogg and lawyers for al-Jabri declined to comment.

Al-Jabri's son Khalid, a cardiologist who lives in Canada, told The Post that offering immunity to Crown Prince Mohammed would be akin to sanctioning murder. 

"If granted, the US would essentially be granting MBS immunity for conduct that succeeded in killing Jamal Khashoggi and failed to kill my dad," he said, using a popular acronym for Crown Prince Mohammed.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, on November 20, 2019. Bandar Algaloud/Courtesy of Saudi Royal Court/Handout via Reuters

Khashoggi, a US resident and writer for The Washington Post, was murdered in Istanbul, Turkey, on October 2, 2018. The CIA has concluded that Crown Prince Mohammed likely ordered the killing.

"Lack of accountability is one thing, but allowing impunity through immunity is like issuing a license to kill," Khalid al-Jabri told The Post in Monday's article.

For immunity to be granted, the State Department would have to submit a recommendation of immunity to the Justice Department, which would then decide whether to approve it, The Post reported.

Al-Jabri fled Saudi Arabia for Canada in 2017, just as Crown Prince Mohammed was wresting control of the country from the incumbent Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef.

Al-Jabri feared that his deep knowledge of the royal court and link to bin Nayef would land him in jail, his August complaint said.

"There's an understanding within Saudi ruling circles that people like al-Jabri need to remain quiet, and it's them who are changing or damaging Saudi image abroad," Umer Karim, a visiting fellow at the Royal United Services Institute, previously told Insider.

Though al-Jabri lives in Canada and is a dual Saudi-Maltese citizen, he filed the claim in the US, citing his value to the US government from his time working on counterterrorism projects with President George W. Bush's administration.

Al-Jabri had worked closely with the CIA on counterterrorism projects in the wake of the September 11, 2001 attacks.

Then-deputy crown prince Mohammed bin Salman and then-Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef in Riyadh on December 14, 2016. Bandar Algaloud/Saudi Royal Council

"Dr. Saad is uniquely positioned to existentially threaten Defendant bin Salman's standing with the US government," al-Jabri's lawyers wrote in their 107-page complaint in August.

"That is why Defendant bin Salman wants him dead - and why Defendant bin Salman has worked to achieve that objective over the last three years."

Read more: Jared Kushner helped create a Trump campaign shell company that secretly paid the president's family members and spent $617 million in reelection cash: source

MBS tried to lure al-Jabri back to Saudi Arabia

On several occasions since al-Jabri fled Saudi Arabia, Crown Prince Mohammed has tried to lure him back, asking him to take part into investigations into former Crown Prince Mohammed bin Nayef, the complaint said.

In one instance, on September 10, 2017, Crown Prince Mohammed personally texted al-Jabri to say he would enforce measures that "would be harmful to you" if he didn't come home, according to al-Jabri's lawsuit.

Al-Jabri declined the requests, and in March 2020, two of his children were kidnapped from their beds in Riyadh. Al-Jabri said in his complaint that they are being used as leverage to force him to come back to Saudi Arabia. 

Meanwhile, Crown Prince Mohammed's legal team have accused al-Jabri of mishandling or stealing $11 billion of government funds while working at the Saudi Interior Ministry. Al-Jabri denied claims of stealing in August, calling them "bogus."

Read the original article on Business Insider

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

1 hour ago, Enthalpic said:

The guy who says he ignores me claims I can't stand toe-to toe-with him.  Ward logic... not entering the race is winning.  Why mention me constantly if you don't care?

0R0 is always wrong, look at the data...

Keep doubling down on failure trump cult - it is very entertaining.

 

I guess you don't know much about the PCR tests and their definitive lack of accuracy.

[Tom Nolan + 2,441]

4 minute video

References, CDC links and information here...

https://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2020/12/22/why-has-the-flu-disappeared.aspx

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

Quote

 

The challenge is that I — and other conservatives — are not disagreeing with the left within a commonly understood world. We live in alternative worlds.

The left’s world is mostly the established world of the forces who have been dominant for most of my life.

My world is the populist rebellion which believes we are being destroyed, our liberties are being cancelled and our religions are under assault. (Note the new Human Rights Campaign to decertify any religious school which does not accept secular sexual values — and that many Democrat governors have kept casinos open while closing churches though the COVID-19 pandemic.) We also believe other Democrat-led COVID-19 policies have enriched the wealthy while crushing middle class small business owners (some 160,000 restaurants may close).

In this context, let’s talk first about the recent past and the presidency.

In 2016, I supported an outsider candidate, who was rough around the edges and in the Andrew Jackson school of controversial assaults on the old order. When my candidate won, it was blamed on the Russians. We now know (four years later) Hillary Clinton’s own team financed the total lie that fueled this attack.

Members of the FBI twice engaged in criminal acts to help it along — once in avoiding prosecution of someone who had deleted 33,000 emails and had a subordinate use a hammer to physically destroy hard drives, and a second time by lying to FISA judges to destroy Gen. Michael Flynn and spy on then-candidate Donald Trump and his team. The national liberal media aided and abetted every step of the way. All this was purely an attempt to cripple the new president and lead to the appointment of a special counsel — who ultimately produced nothing.

 

Now, people in my world are told it is time to stop resisting and cooperate with the new president. But we remember that the Democrats wanted to cooperate with Mr. Trump so much that they began talking about his impeachment before he even took office. The Washington Post ran a story on Democrat impeachment plots the day of the inauguration.

In fact, nearly 70 Democratic lawmakers boycotted his inauguration. A massive left-wing demonstration was staged in Washington the day after, where Madonna announced she dreamed of blowing up the White House to widespread applause. These same forces want me to cooperate with their new president. I find myself adopting the Nancy Pelosi model of constant resistance. Nothing I have seen from Mr. Biden since the election offers me any hope that he will reach out to the more than 74 million Americans who voted for President Trump.

 

So, I am not reacting to the votes so much as to the whole election environment.

When Twitter and Facebook censored the oldest and fourth largest newspaper (founded by Alexander Hamilton) because it accurately reported news that could hurt Mr. Biden’s chances — where were The New York Times and The Washington Post?

The truth of the Hunter Biden story is now becoming impossible to avoid or conceal. The family of the Democrat nominee for president received at least $5 million from an entity controlled by our greatest adversary. It was a blatant payoff, and most Americans who voted for Mr. Biden never heard of it — or were told before the election it was Russian disinformation. Once they did hear of it, 17% said they would have switched their votes, according to a poll by the Media Research Center. That’s the entire election. The censorship worked exactly as intended.

 

Typically, newspapers and media outlets band together when press freedom is threatened by censorship. Where was the sanctimonious “democracy dies in darkness?” Tragically, The Washington Post is now part of the darkness.

But this is just a start. When Twitter censors four of five Rush Limbaugh tweets in one day, I fear for the country.

When these monolithic Internet giants censor the president of the United States, I fear for the country.

 

When I see elite billionaires like Mark Zuckerburg are able to spend $400 million to hire city governments to maximize turnout in specifically Democratic districts — without any regard to election spending laws or good governance standards — I fear for the country.

When I read that Apple has a firm rule of never irritating China — and I watch the NBA kowtow to Beijing, I fear for our country.

When I watch story after story about election fraud being spiked — without even the appearance of journalistic due diligence or curiosity — I know something is sick.

 

The election process itself was the final straw in creating the crisis of confidence which is accelerating and deepening for many millions of Americans.

Aside from a constant stream of allegations of outright fraud, there are some specific outrages — any one of which was likely enough to swing the entire election.

Officials in virtually every swing state broke their states’ own laws to send out millions of ballots or ballot applications to every registered voter. It was all clearly documented in the Texas lawsuit, which was declined by the U.S. Supreme Court based on Texas’ procedural standing — not the merits of the case. That’s the election.

 

In addition, it’s clear that virtually every swing state essentially suspended normal requirements for verifying absentee ballots. Rejection rates were an order of magnitude lower than in a normal year. In Georgia, rejection rates dropped from 6.5% in 2016 to 0.2% in 2020. In Pennsylvania, it went from 1% in 2016 to .003% in 2020. Nevada fell from 1.6% to .75%. There is no plausible explanation other than that they were counting a huge number of ballots — disproportionately for Mr. Biden — that normally would not have passed muster. That’s the election.

 

The entire elite liberal media lied about the timeline of the COVID-19 vaccine. They blamed President Trump for the global pandemic even as he did literally everything top scientists instructed. In multiple debates, the moderators outright stated that he was lying about the U.S. having a vaccine before the end of the year (note Vice President Mike Pence received it this week). If Americans had known the pandemic was almost over, that too was likely the difference in the election.

The unanimously never-Trump debate commission spiked the second debate at a critical time in order to hurt President Trump. If there had been one more debate like the final one, it likely would have been pivotal.

This is just the beginning. But any one of those things alone is enough for Trump supporters to think we have been robbed by a ruthless establishment — which is likely to only get more corrupt and aggressive if it gets away with these blatant acts.

For more than four years, the entire establishment mobilized against the elected president of the United States as though they were an immune system trying to kill a virus. Now, they are telling us we are undermining democracy.

 

You have more than 74 million voters who supported President Trumpdespite everything — and given the election mess, the number could easily be significantly higher. The truth is tens of millions of Americans are deeply alienated and angry.