Elon Musk Goes Full Conspiracy Theorist, Blames Big Oil for Tesla's Negative Media Coverage

[Tom Kirkman + 8,860]

8 hours ago, Oily said:

Tom, you naughty man, you!

Tossing conversational Molotovs like that. Tsk, tsk.

Leave some for the rest of us, brother. ;-)

Ever use a laser pointer to get a cat to bounce all over the room chasing the little red dot like a lunatic, just for amusement?

Yeah, me neither.  Because that would be bad.  Maybe even naughty.

[Wally + 7]

Dreams are Free.

 

[PeterfromCalgary + 60]

Cars are a very tough business.  Look at Delorean.  John Delorean had a lot of experience in the automotive industry and he still could not make his car company work.  Musk has no automotive experience and has survived this long because he has a great ability to raise money from investors and the Obama administration.  Obama is no longer President and some investors are getting tired of Musk burning through their money.  Therefore, Musk is getting desperate.

Edited June 3, 2018 by PeterfromCalgary

[Rodent + 1,424]

Those who are crazy enough to think they can change the world usually do.

Steve Jobs

I'm not a musk koolaid drinker, but without nutty people like musk who break a little from reality, we might not have much innovation.

[Jono Simko 0]

A) how many of you have driven a Tesla? 
B) how many of you are trying to positively impact the future of man kind?

 

[Jono Simko 0]

On 5/25/2018 at 1:13 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

Yep, in case it's not yet obvious, I generally view Elon Musk as a snake oil salesman.  Who is pretty darn good at acquiring government money.  Drink the Kool Aid at your own risk.

He borrowed government money and paid it back with interest. How much do you think Ford owes the US taxpayer still??

[NatGasDude + 94]

The 'benefiting mankind' part is secondary to 'making tons of profits'. It's the same as all silicon valley companies touting how they are going to provide endless value, honesty, and generosity to the whole planet, when they are lying through their teeth and selling your personal data that you thought was private.

Also take into account that Tesla is purely a rich man's automobile, and even if someone from a lower income bracket buys one used, the cost of replacing the battery is absurd (and range becomes almost unusable after 5 years). I'm sure that the tech will become better, but it is also driving up the demand for lithium and cobalt mining, and creating massive amounts of chemical waste. We don't know where this is heading and I hope that there are cost effective solutions to reduce battery replacement costs/increase battery life/improve the economics of battery recycling. Tesla has made many promises regarding battery handling throughout the life of the battery, but a tiny percentage of EV owners have bothered to go through with the recycling process.

There is merit in what Elon has done, but he isn't the environmental Jesus that Tesla worshippers believe him to be. Without fossil fuels, we would not be capable of sustaining our population's needs, and we may not have experienced the industrial revolution at all. Perhaps it would have manifested itself in a different form, and maybe overpopulation wouldn't have happened so drastically as society would have developed transportation and industrial capabilities using other sources of power. Who knows.

Imagine a world without air travel, just as an example. There is no EV solution to the average jetliner, only mini bus jets that are being experimented with as intrastate/short trip alternatives. Maybe we do need a shift to train based regional travel using cleaner energy sources, but there is no feasible alternative to jet based transatlantic/transpacific travel. I'm not refuting the EV argument, but the world as we know it depends on fossil fuels, and the same 'anti oil prophets' like Elon are riding their private jets and producing way more emissions than the average joe.

A transition to cleaner fuels like natural gas, environmental CO2 extraction methods like Fischer Tropsch based syngas using solar power as catalyst, and improved catalytic technologies to manage emissions will have a bigger environmental impact than the rush to increase EV ownership among the rich.

[NatGasDude + 94]

Also, besides loans, Tesla/SpaceX has received over 5 billion in subsidies from Federal and State governments. Not loans, pure tax credits and subsidies. The tax payer has been funding a large part of this company, close to 10% of enterprise value.

[Dennis Coyne + 82]

That is up to the governments who they give tax subsidies to, lots of businesses get tax breaks, that is just the world we live in.

Tesla is now profitable and has the 4th best selling car in the US  for Sept 2018(Model 3), behind Camry, Accord, and Civic

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/10/top-20-best-selling-cars-in-america-september-2018/

For all passenger vehicles (light duty) the Model 3 was the 13th best selling vehicle in the US in Sept 2018

http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/10/top-30-best-selling-vehicles-in-america-september-2018/

Got my Model 3 a few weeks ago, 310 miles of range average, 295 miles on highway and 375 miles at lower speeds (40 to 50 mph) at temperatures of 35 to 50 F.  Very nice car.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Dennis Coyne

[Dennis Coyne + 82]

On ‎5‎/‎25‎/‎2018 at 1:17 PM, Jan van Eck said:

Actually, probably not  (come to an end).  There is an awful lot of oil out there.  At best,we have consumed perhaps 18% of the planet's oil. 

And there are large savings in oil use for transport to be had.  I invite readers to consider the Interstate linking the Port of Baltimore to the city of Morgantown, West Virginia. That run is about 212 miles and a major truck route into the Midwest from the Port. I did a little study on that route and discovered that some 40% of the fuel burn was over only 30,000 feet of Interstate 68.  Now, how is this?  Take a look at an elevation map and you will see these six giant ridges that the road goes up and down, then go stand on the roadside and listen to those big truck engines just groaning in low gear and they try to mash their way up those grades.  The fuel flow is a total river at that point. 

OK, so now what the govt does is build tunnels, with an internal grade of no more than 0.9%, so those heavy trucks can run in top gear at 55.  Instead of blowing fuel going up and down, now you just coast along.  Build 100 tunnels through the 100 highest-volume mountain grades and there goes some 40% of America's road transport fuel use. 

What does that cost you?   Figure on a billion a tunnel using those big tunnel-boring machines, the stuff they used to dig from England to France.  For a CAPEX of 100 billion you are all done and out from underneath importing one drop of foreign oil. Hey, it is entirely doable, if you have the political will.  And that also collapses the world oil price back down to about $22.  Just saying. 

Jan,

18% suggests 7000 Gb of oil, wow, talk about drinking the cool aid

Are you including Kerogen resources?  Those are unlikely to ever be profitable to produce and water availability is a serious problem in the West.  3500 to 4000 Gb might be a reasonable estimate, but extra heavy oil resources will be expensive and difficult to ramp quickly.  There are limits to how much of the known oil resource will be profitable to extract.  At $22/b, it is more likely to be 3000 Gb than 4000 Gb.  7000 Gb probably does not occur at any price.

Edited October 29, 2018 by Dennis Coyne

[Dennis Coyne + 82]

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 1:23 PM, Tom Kirkman said:

Here ya go:

Elon Musk, Crony Capitalist

At first glance, Elon Musk appears to be a quintessential capitalist success story. The South African born-American technology magnet, lead designer of SpaceX, and product architect of Tesla, Inc. is now ranked 25^th on Forbes Magazine’s list of the World’s Most Powerful People, and as of February 2018, Forbes has Musk listed as the 53 ^rdrichest person in the world.

One might conclude that Musk’s staggering wealth was produced via faithful adherence to the timeless and inexorable principles of laissez-faire capitalism, where personal wealth is accrued through the federal government leaving commerce alone and staying outside the affairs of private industry. However, this perception of Elon Musk’s economic independence from government interventionism is largely a fabrication and carefully manufactured distortion since Musk has personally enriched himself through a whole lot of government favoritism and statist interference in the private sector economy.

At this point, Musk has received well over $5 billion in government support. Previous reports have shown over 80 percent of SpaceX’s contracts come right from Uncle Sam. 

Any company is welcome to compete with Spacex for those government contracts.  Lots of companies get tax breaks, not just Tesla, every solar company benefits from the solar tax breaks, every car company gets the battery credits, if they simply produce battery driven vehicles.

[CMOP + 227]

23 minutes ago, Dennis Coyne said:

That is up to the governments who they give tax subsidies to, lots of businesses get tax breaks, that is just the world we live in.

Tesla is now profitable and has the 4th best selling car in the US  for Sept 2018(Model 3), behind Camry, Accord, and Civic

 http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/10/top-20-best-selling-cars-in-america-september-2018/

For all passenger vehicles (light duty) the Model 3 was the 13th best selling vehicle in the US in Sept 2018

 http://www.goodcarbadcar.net/2018/10/top-30-best-selling-vehicles-in-america-september-2018/

Got my Model 3 a few weeks ago, 310 miles of range average, 295 miles on highway and 375 miles at lower speeds (40 to 50 mph) at temperatures of 35 to 50 F.  Very nice car.

It's an incredible vehicle. I've driven the tesla model s a few times - hands down one of my favorite cars. 
This month Tesla has ramped up their production and fixed the bottlenecks at the factory - they are not slowing down. 
It'll be interesting to see as giga factory in shangai starts producing and launch of the Model X. 

Tesla isn't going anywhere guys! 

[Dennis Coyne + 82]

4 minutes ago, CMOP said:

It's an incredible vehicle. I've driven the tesla model s a few times - hands down one of my favorite cars. 
This month Tesla has ramped up their production and fixed the bottlenecks at the factory - they are not slowing down. 
It'll be interesting to see as giga factory in shangai starts producing and launch of the Model X. 

Tesla isn't going anywhere guys! 

I think you mean the Model Y, rather than X, or that is my understanding.  For those who don't follow Tesla the Model Y will be a small SUV maybe about the size of the Toyota RAV4, probably similar footprint to the Model 3.

[CMOP + 227]

Yes, i'm sorry the model Y. @Dennis Coyne
Haven't seen any news regarding the new roadsters?
At the truck premier launch they brought out the new roadster - but haven't seen any news recently. 

 

[Dennis Coyne + 82]

Just now, CMOP said:

Yes, i'm sorry the model Y. @Dennis Coyne
Haven't seen any news regarding the new roadsters?
At the truck premier launch they brought out the new roadster - but haven't seen any news recently. 

 

No, I think it may not be out until 2022, my guess is Model Y, Semi, Pickup Truck, then Roadster 2.  It is going to take some time.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 5/24/2018 at 4:07 PM, Marina Schwarz said:

It pains me to see this. Musk should lay off Twitter for a while and make some cars. Or get professional help. It looks like he needs it. I'm not being sarcastic.

You're up somewhere between $4 and $4.50/share on the day, if you're still holding.  Good day for you, if you are!

Edited October 29, 2018 by Dan Warnick

[Marina Schwarz + 1,576]

Alas, I own no Tesla stock but I would have held for sure. I lack the risk appetite for anything other than long-term investment. Now I'll just slip out quietly to avoid jinxing it...

[DA? + 301]

23 hours ago, NatGasDude said:

The 'benefiting mankind' part is secondary to 'making tons of profits'. It's the same as all silicon valley companies touting how they are going to provide endless value, honesty, and generosity to the whole planet, when they are lying through their teeth and selling your personal data that you thought was private.

Also take into account that Tesla is purely a rich man's automobile, and even if someone from a lower income bracket buys one used, the cost of replacing the battery is absurd (and range becomes almost unusable after 5 years). I'm sure that the tech will become better, but it is also driving up the demand for lithium and cobalt mining, and creating massive amounts of chemical waste. We don't know where this is heading and I hope that there are cost effective solutions to reduce battery replacement costs/increase battery life/improve the economics of battery recycling. Tesla has made many promises regarding battery handling throughout the life of the battery, but a tiny percentage of EV owners have bothered to go through with the recycling process.

There is merit in what Elon has done, but he isn't the environmental Jesus that Tesla worshippers believe him to be. Without fossil fuels, we would not be capable of sustaining our population's needs, and we may not have experienced the industrial revolution at all. Perhaps it would have manifested itself in a different form, and maybe overpopulation wouldn't have happened so drastically as society would have developed transportation and industrial capabilities using other sources of power. Who knows.

Imagine a world without air travel, just as an example. There is no EV solution to the average jetliner, only mini bus jets that are being experimented with as intrastate/short trip alternatives. Maybe we do need a shift to train based regional travel using cleaner energy sources, but there is no feasible alternative to jet based transatlantic/transpacific travel. I'm not refuting the EV argument, but the world as we know it depends on fossil fuels, and the same 'anti oil prophets' like Elon are riding their private jets and producing way more emissions than the average joe.

A transition to cleaner fuels like natural gas, environmental CO2 extraction methods like Fischer Tropsch based syngas using solar power as catalyst, and improved catalytic technologies to manage emissions will have a bigger environmental impact than the rush to increase EV ownership among the rich.

What can I say but so much WRONGNESS. Really go have a look at the facts. Tesla batteries become unusable after 5 years? Oh dear dear me, time to catch up with reality.

[DA? + 301]

23 hours ago, NatGasDude said:

Also, besides loans, Tesla/SpaceX has received over 5 billion in subsidies from Federal and State governments. Not loans, pure tax credits and subsidies. The tax payer has been funding a large part of this company, close to 10% of enterprise value.

Have you seen how much the USA government now save every time they us a SpaceX rocket compared to the old boys? Also looks like SpaceX may well be the first to get the USA into launching humans again, after a rather embarrassing time of paying the Russians and subsidising their space agency.

Tesla may end up being the only major USA car manufacturer the way the others are going.

The USA needs immigrants like the African born Musk to keep it going.

Also going to be interesting to see who was behind the FBI's rather ridiculous investigation of Tesla when as law allows the files are made public.