Chance for (Saudi)Arabian peninsula having giant onshore Gas too?

[KilonBerlin + 9]

Hi guys,

since Saudis seem to import their Gas and the UAE use all their production to produce water or electricity or like the very large Saudi Oil Power plant near Mekka which has 6 huge (6 x 400MW afair?!) parts and each also had a desalination or "steam collecting" mechanism in the cooling sector integrated, increasing efficiency... is it because a large or very large gas production complex is even more costly than oil? I think the gas form alone makes it harder, not to talk about LNG-Tankers and facilities at start and end point. Is it unrealistic to expect trillions m³ of natural gas in all these countries from Oman/Yemen to the northern area where kuwait and bahrain are lying?! 

I mean Qatar and Iran otherwise could develop this largest (so far) known gas field and flood the world, that would be self-destructive ofc but now where the US plan/prepare to become natural gas and oil exporter (delayed by Coronavirus). Can the method the US use in their basins be used in every stable land area? are there some patents/know-how things for these method or is it a question of investment (2-digit million US-$ per rig with everything from 1st geoseismic tests to running production? or is it only 1-digit?) and needed customers and pipelines to a LNG-plant?

[Sebastian Meana + 278]

Of course, generally, and mostly Gas and oil come from the same wells, as asociated gas, altho it varies in proportion, as far i know countries with lighter grades of crude produce more natural gas relative to oil (algeria, norway, lybia)

Generally, if you drill deep enough you will find the source rock, and find tight oil and gas in shale rocks, but that is more expensive and a harder technology, altho it has become cheaper, and as a bar in gral for every kg of tight oil you get around 1 to 1.25 kg of natural gas

[NickW + 2,714]

On 12/28/2020 at 2:11 AM, KilonBerlin said:

Hi guys,

since Saudis seem to import their Gas and the UAE use all their production to produce water or electricity or like the very large Saudi Oil Power plant near Mekka which has 6 huge (6 x 400MW afair?!) parts and each also had a desalination or "steam collecting" mechanism in the cooling sector integrated, increasing efficiency... is it because a large or very large gas production complex is even more costly than oil? I think the gas form alone makes it harder, not to talk about LNG-Tankers and facilities at start and end point. Is it unrealistic to expect trillions m³ of natural gas in all these countries from Oman/Yemen to the northern area where kuwait and bahrain are lying?! 

I mean Qatar and Iran otherwise could develop this largest (so far) known gas field and flood the world, that would be self-destructive ofc but now where the US plan/prepare to become natural gas and oil exporter (delayed by Coronavirus). Can the method the US use in their basins be used in every stable land area? are there some patents/know-how things for these method or is it a question of investment (2-digit million US-$ per rig with everything from 1st geoseismic tests to running production? or is it only 1-digit?) and needed customers and pipelines to a LNG-plant?

KSA doesn't produce enough gas which is the main reason it burns 1mBPD of oil 

The sane options would have been to:

• Do something about the appalling energy efficiency in the country to curtail demand
• import from Qatar (without the need to turn it into LNG)
• rapidly build out solar to displace the use of oil. 

However this being KSA neither options seem to have arisen. 

[John Foote + 1,135]

On 2/7/2021 at 9:33 AM, NickW said:

KSA doesn't produce enough gas which is the main reason it burns 1mBPD of oil 

The sane options would have been to:

• Do something about the appalling energy efficiency in the country to curtail demand
• import from Qatar (without the need to turn it into LNG)
• rapidly build out solar to displace the use of oil. 

However this being KSA neither options seem to have arisen. 

1mBPD? probably more like 3m in peak summer.  In the eastern part of the country there is significant use of natural gas. But not enough produced to pipe it around the country. Even oil, did you know tankers leave Ras Tanura and head for the west cost of KSA. There is a large east/west oil pipeline now, but not enough capacity to keep the west in desal water and electricity.

Yes, they absolutely should embrace inefficiencies. The years of heavily subsidized energy to business and consumer punished efficiency measures. Now I can buy gasoline for less in Texas. 

Importing from Qatar is not an option, It is perhaps the real reason they were about to invade a few years ago. 

Clearly they should use solar more, but it has significant limitations. It's a niche' source, a large niche' perhaps, but a niche' source. 

There were major efforts at developing unconventional gas while I was there, but it's not an economical play for them for several reasons. Normalizing with Qatar and being friends is the more sensible play. The UAE also trash talks Qatar, but the UAE also powers their Aluminum reduction facility, and some of the electrical grid, with Qatar gas. 

[NickW + 2,714]

3 hours ago, John Foote said:

1mBPD? probably more like 3m in peak summer.  In the eastern part of the country there is significant use of natural gas. But not enough produced to pipe it around the country. Even oil, did you know tankers leave Ras Tanura and head for the west cost of KSA. There is a large east/west oil pipeline now, but not enough capacity to keep the west in desal water and electricity.

Yes, they absolutely should embrace inefficiencies. The years of heavily subsidized energy to business and consumer punished efficiency measures. Now I can buy gasoline for less in Texas. 

Importing from Qatar is not an option, It is perhaps the real reason they were about to invade a few years ago. 

Clearly they should use solar more, but it has significant limitations. It's a niche' source, a large niche' perhaps, but a niche' source. 

There were major efforts at developing unconventional gas while I was there, but it's not an economical play for them for several reasons. Normalizing with Qatar and being friends is the more sensible play. The UAE also trash talks Qatar, but the UAE also powers their Aluminum reduction facility, and some of the electrical grid, with Qatar gas. 

I was playing ball park averages with the daily oil burn

Even the efficiency of their CCGT's must be quite low due to the high atmospheric temperatures, particularly in the daytime. This is where solar comes into own taking the strain off the gas plant at the point in the day when their efficiency will be at its lowest. 

From what I recall the wind resources are good in the north west - desal works well with this as it can be ramped up and down in response to supply fluctuations. 

Back in 2010-12 I remember seeing housing going up in Dammam built with 6 inch block work. No insulation. The only concession to energy efficiency was painting them white or cream. 

[John Foote + 1,135]

On 2/24/2021 at 4:38 PM, NickW said:

From what I recall the wind resources are good in the north west - desal works well with this as it can be ramped up and down in response to supply fluctuations. 

Back in 2010-12 I remember seeing housing going up in Dammam built with 6 inch block work. No insulation. The only concession to energy efficiency was painting them white or cream. 

I once had the wind maps. There are some decent corridors, but nothing like Texas. 

Want to ruin Riyadh's day, take out a water pipeline, forget the oil. They'll in serious trouble in less than 48 hours. Imagine 9 million people without water of any sort, and nothing but sand for hours in every direction.

I don't think painting white was for efficiency, rather cultural preference. I always wondered what sick mind came up with black clothes for the women.

There are so many easy, relatively inexpensive yet massive gains to be had in KSA. Instead let's spend a dumb trillion $ into a futuristic city the width of a single road. If that isn't the emperor's new clothes on steroids, what is? The system there is determined to waste resources and inflate spend.

[NickW + 2,714]

2 minutes ago, John Foote said:

I once had the wind maps. There are some decent corridors, but nothing like Texas. 

Want to ruin Riyadh's day, take out a water pipeline, forget the oil. They'll in serious trouble in less than 48 hours. Imagine 9 million people without water of any sort, and nothing but sand for hours in every direction.

I don't think painting white was for efficiency, rather cultural preference. I always wondered what sick mind came up with black clothes for the women.

There are so many easy, relatively inexpensive yet massive gains to be had in KSA. Instead let's spend a dumb trillion $ into a futuristic city the width of a single road. If that isn't the emperor's new clothes on steroids, what is? The system there is determined to waste resources and inflate spend.

I asked a Saudi graduate who I was mentoring why women wear black when the blokes all wear white

With 100% assurance he said - Its womens punishment

I said - eh - what for? 

He Said: He said for tempting man out of the garden of Eden...........

 

 

[NickW + 2,714]

6 minutes ago, John Foote said:

I once had the wind maps. There are some decent corridors, but nothing like Texas. 

Definitely the NW corner

Global Wind Atlas

[NickW + 2,714]

8 minutes ago, John Foote said:

I once had the wind maps. There are some decent corridors, but nothing like Texas. 

Want to ruin Riyadh's day, take out a water pipeline, forget the oil. They'll in serious trouble in less than 48 hours. Imagine 9 million people without water of any sort, and nothing but sand for hours in every direction.

I don't think painting white was for efficiency, rather cultural preference. I always wondered what sick mind came up with black clothes for the women.

There are so many easy, relatively inexpensive yet massive gains to be had in KSA. Instead let's spend a dumb trillion $ into a futuristic city the width of a single road. If that isn't the emperor's new clothes on steroids, what is? The system there is determined to waste resources and inflate spend.

Did you ever visit Shaybah? 

They got it right down there. Accommodation blocks built with loads  of thermal mass. 

I used to visit Shaybah regularly - loved it down there. I would of stayed longer but they pulled me off that and I got stuck in the toxic political environment of Al Midra so when my Aussie VISA came through used that as an excuse to FO out of there. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, NickW said:

I asked a Saudi graduate who I was mentoring why women wear black when the blokes all wear white

With 100% assurance he said - Its womens punishment

I said - eh - what for? 

He Said: He said for tempting man out of the garden of Eden...........

 

 

Well, if that's what's in the book and has ensured control of the Guinness bottles this long....

You see, if you keep them under control and at home, unless they go out with an escort, you always know where they are.

If you keep them mostly in the home and always know where they are, you can multiply your number of mistresses, or goats or whatever, and not have to worry about being confronted for it. 

That's just embarrassing when that happens, you know?

No divorce settlements.  No child support.  No responsibilities at all (except to kiss a certain person's ring from time to time).  Pure bliss!

"Who could ask for anything more...."  

[KilonBerlin + 9]

Would solar be cheaper than to increase oil and maybe gas? Can't believe there is no gas out there, using oil is just in so many ways easier and the official explored reserves only very few people outside the Kingdom now if they are correct, if total investments to produce like 25 billion m³ of natural gas per year over 10 years are acceptable they maybe will switch, but so long I think they don't want to support "Renewables", like solar which seems very effective for the Arabian peninsula too much?! I mean finally they are the enemy of gas and oil, and the OPEC is also very oil rich, even with Qatar lost as OPEC Member... who knows what the future will bring.

A conflict is possible if I remember a documentation I saw, also after the Saudis the UAE now are building an larger Army since the current leader is at power... weak leaders like him do that, and Qatar is a big problems for both countries, alone Fifa 2022 was something they really were unhappy and both sides started to send "anonymous" propaganda stations via tv and internet, and who protects Qatar? Iran afaik?!

Maybe they find a way but right now it seems like with coal, most/giant reserves will stay in the ground, if countries/companies affected like it or not, and after gasoline/diesel vehicles will be replaced in large numbers by EV's it will be hard, like with Oil and Oil Power Plants, only few exist today, while before the 1st oil crisis there have been some larger and many smaller to medium sized oil power plants as an emergency solution, in the "west" as well as "east", maybe in the west more and larger ones existed, but today...