EU(Merkel/Germany) ready to sign Trade Agreement with China

[0R0 + 6,251]

47 minutes ago, Roch said:

ORO

You are a wealth of Chinese data and statistics.  If I may ask, in what profession do you apply this knowledge ?

(a) Academic ?

(b) Government ?

(c) Intelligence Agency ?

(d) Finance/Investments ?

(e) Personal intellectual curiosity ?

(f) None of the above ?

 

d

[Roch + 537]

EU approves China investment agreement.

Will Parliament approve ?  Will it be signed ? 

This is really only about German auto mfg permitted to build and sell electric cars in China. 

What does China get out of this ?

 

"Assuming the deal would be ratified, the China Investment Agreement would tie the hands of Europeans in controlling Chinese investment in sensitive sectors. After all, the main prize for China in the ongoing negotiations is to secure EU-wide protection for Chinese investment, bypassing the bloc’s new investment screening system, as well as measures that could be adopted on national security grounds by individual member states."

 

Edited December 30, 2020 by Roch

[0R0 + 6,251]

China revising down 2019 gdp again in order to show growth in 2020, why is anyone regarding their numbers as real is beyond me.

 

https://www.caixinglobal.com/2020-12-31/china-just-erased-gdp-the-size-of-ghana-in-latest-revisions-101645151.html?rkey=4jojc%2BU9DvvtuaHc2n7nI%2FFL%2FE7ci4pK8bNFOzBEfLxouVeUA1ZHvg%3D%3D&cxg=web&Sfrom=twitter

[Roch + 537]

6 hours ago, 0R0 said:

d

d was not my first guess.  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

On 12/29/2020 at 3:20 PM, Tomasz said:

The problem of the USA is that both Europe and Russia do not see a strategic threat in China and the possible effects of economic cooperation with China are very satisfactory.

Never in history has China been an expanding country beyond mainland China.

The USA must therefore convince its allies that China is a great threat, which seems to me to be a very difficult task.

The difference in attitudes in NATO  towards Russia and China is precisely the cause of what Emanuel Macron called NATO's brain death.

In my opinion, everything leads to the fact that in the perspective of 2-3 decades, China will be the new world hegemon in place of the USA, and I personally do not mind it and, as a European, I fully support European-Chinese trade cooperation.

Because from what I can see, no one outside the US is going to fight with the new Chinese power and everyone wants to earn from this cooperation.

Only USA has a strategic dilemma because  China is slowly but systematically depriving USA of the role of a global hegemon.

But I personally have nothing against it and I see no reason to build a broad anti-Chinese coalition.

So, you would have possibly been just fine with Nazi Germany becoming the world hegemon. The Chinese and Soviet dictatorships have killed far more people than Germany did. 

China, Russia, Japan, etc. Have killed far more political opponents than Germany ever did. China is the champion murderer of civilians. They are also racists, having subdued Tibet, Azerbijan, Mongolia, and Manchuria. After subjection they then move in millions of Han Chinese. If Russia didn't have nukes most of it would likely now be part of China. 

There is little difference between the fascism of Hitler and the fascism of China or Russia. Sure it is called socialism and communism but both are really fascist. The government controls the large corporations but do not run them themselves. Both China and Russia tried communism but gave up on it. Venezuela, Cuba, and North Korea are still stupid enough to continue with the experiment. 

Continuing trade with China while they continuing to oppress and enslave a large portion of their own people is an alliance with evil. We should be diversifying our trade partners and we should let our politicians know they must quit taking direct and indirect bribes from them. 

[Hotone + 412]

12 hours ago, RichieRich$ said:

China’s communist party rule will self implode long before any of this takes place. They are currently at almost 300% of their GDP where as the United States of America is at 98% of our GDP. Once the billions of Chinese people that have no idea of what they’ve missed out on and could have been a part of in regards to better living, electronics, world travel, better housing, free market they will rise up and take the communist party down.

if anyone believes the communist party is not afraid of that happening just look what they’ve done to Hong Kong and broke that treaty because Hong Kong was pushing the limits past what the communist party was willing to except and they were afraid it would spread in the mainland China.

@ronwagn

The West needs to save China with democracy. 🤭😅😂🤣

Edited December 31, 2020 by Hotone

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

On 12/29/2020 at 10:58 AM, Roch said:

Today's political environment is not LEFT vs RIGHT , but rather INSIDER vs OUTSIDER.  

YES!!! This left vs right crap is just to get people fighting so the powers that be can keep cashing in.

 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

1 hour ago, Hotone said:

The West needs to save China with democracy. 🤭😅😂🤣

Gotta say these guys proclaiming everything is ok fine is just as annoying as other westerners saying everything is total crap in China. I've stayed for months-long periods in the Philippines and it still doesn't give me any real "feel" for how the internal life-vision is for average Filipinos other than most are very friendly, always armed, tragically poor and really like Karaoke.

I will never have the same world view/perspective, I can only create my own mental approximation.

These guys talk to a few people and ask a couple questions (where the context may be totally mis-understood) get some cheap drinks and then pass judgement thinking they can see and understand the same contextual reality. Nothing's changed with the British.

 

[Roch + 537]

On 12/31/2020 at 12:49 AM, Strangelovesurfing said:

YES!!! This left vs right crap is just to get people fighting so the powers that be can keep cashing in.

 

Previous post Angela wants Joe to declare Environment a National Emergency.

Look what we've become where the new Environment Cabinet Secretary is more important than Sec of State, Sec of Defense, Sec of Treasury.

Four years of listening to that blowhard John Kerry lecture us to look forward to. 

Kerry got his dream job. He can fly around to European Capitals on private U.S. Government jet, stay at the finest 5 star hotels and  hobnob with their political elite .

(Speaking of John Kerry , during his Senate Confirmation Hearing will he be asked about his stepson Chris Heinze partnership with Hunter Biden in Rosemont Seneca Capital ?  How about how Hunter and Chris , with no financial management experience qualified for a $130,000,000  Federally guaranteed loan to buy highly discounted assets acquired by the Fed during the 2008 Financial Crisis , THEN FUNNELED THE $ MILLIONS IN PROFITS THRU AN OFF-SHORE ENTITY IN THE CAYMAN ISLANDS TO EVADE U.S. TAXES. Or is John Kerry and stepson  Chris Heinze part of the "protected class"

 

Edited January 6, 2021 by Roch

[Marcin2 + 726]

21 hours ago, 0R0 said:

None of that can happen, we have passed "peak China"

...

The best estimates for China's GDP growth I found are

2018 0-1.6%

2019 -0.5% to 0%

2020 -4.6%

That figure is likely to be an overestimate for 2020 as ChinaBeigeBook shows 10% decline in retail transaction y/y for Nov. as it was all summer. All the "growth" contribution is from infrastructure and exports and support services. Retail business financing for the holding of stocks for sale during lunar new year has fallen from near 80% bank approval to less than 50% The upcoming holiday retail season is looking to be bleak and a large and visible dive off the cliff in retail sales.

Marcin, I would have discounted GaveCal's estimates by now. They trend with official data, which has been bogus for a decade in increasingly large departures from reality.

 

For a few months I do not follow Chinese data (no time), but I do not comprehend why China should not(by some magic, please explain what type of magic)  reach 60-70% of US GDP / per capita level, say like Italy or Spain in 20 years.

China has definitely better infrastructure than Italy or Spain.

And builds 1 trillion USD of infrastructure each and every year.

Better talent pool and better education than Italy or Spain.

Better technology level than Italy or Spain.

Much better R&D output than Italy or Spain

And so on, and so on.

All the Chinese economic indicators are more healthy than Italian or Spanish.

It is obvoius for nearly everybody that China will reach 60% of US GDP / per capita level.

China even with CCP dictatorship has still better governance than Italy or Spain.

Guys from US, please try to leave wishful thinking behind, and concentrate on facts on the ground.

Actually people like Gerry Madoux or ORO are CCP best friends. China needs people, to underestimate its strengths and think it is developing country on the brink of destruction. The more, the better.

[Marcin2 + 726]

1 simple observation about Chinese and US nominal GDP.

US and Chinese retail sales of consumer goods are very similar, in 2019 US was a little bit higher, so in 2020-2021 China will surpass US.

The only thing that still keeps US nominal GDP higher than Chinese GDP is much higher  total value of services in the United States. This value is higher in US cause unit cost of services is much higher in US in comparison with China

So in 1 sentence:

US is still 1st in nominal GDP and China is still 2nd in nominal GDP (not vice versa) because decent haircut costs 100 USD in New York and only 30 USD in Beijing.

For the global balance of power it does not matter, cause more than 95% of these services are not tradable.

Edited December 31, 2020 by Marcin2
typo

[Boat + 1,324]

On 12/29/2020 at 2:58 PM, Roch said:

At the same time Angela has demands for Joe Biden. (1) Joe declare the environment a National Emergency (2) Cooperate on "free trade" (3) Fight terrorism.  

Easy for Merkel to demand while she:

a.  Refuses to pay fair share of NATO costs . Signed Coalition of Willing to defeat ISIS, yet balked when asked to contribute.  

b. Wants U.S. to allow Germany automakers to export car parts and vehicles to U.S. , while maintaining protectionist stance in Germany. There really isn't such a thing as Free Trade.

c. Wants U.S. to pay $ Trillions and sacrifice lives in mideast to protect the flow of oil to the EU and their new trading partner China. She wants the U.S. to help stem the flow of immigrants from the Mideast . 

d. Wants the U.S. to spend Trillions on Green Technology development of which she can exploit.  Example "green hydrogen".  Seems great, however Trillions needs to be spent to (1) economically produce green hydrogen (as opposed to hydrogen produced from methane/natural gas) (2) scale hydrogen storage and pipeline distribution.  

Merkel Germany was in a serious recession in 2019.  Germany number one market for their auto industry is China. They depend on the Chinese Communist Party permission to continue their sales.  

Looks like China has lured EU into their web.  The question is how long does their "friendly" investment partnership last.  

Biden is a push over and will certainly give Merkel everything she wants.  New Environment Secretary Kerry has probably already planned meeting with Angela.

Speaking of Kerry, do you think during Kerry's Senate Confirmation Hearing he will be asked about his stepson Chris's partnership with Hunter Biden in Rosemont Seneca Capital ? How about the $130 million Federally guaranteed loan the received in 2009 to buy assets acquired by the Fed during the 2008 Financial Crisis.  That loan where they funneled the millions in profits thru an offshore account in the Cayman Islands to evade taxes ?

Today's political environment is not LEFT vs RIGHT , but rather INSIDER vs OUTSIDER.  

https://www.breitbart.com/europe/2020/12/29/european-union-prepares-investment-pact-with-communist-china/ 

One difference between U.S. and Chinese trade policy is :

China makes other countries pay to access their consumers and businesses.

U.S. pretends Free Trade is a real workable policy.  U.S. proposes the World Trade Organization (WTO), abides by its rules and gets abused by Asia and Europe.

 

So pull our military from around the world unless they pay for it. Cut trade with all countries until the balance is even. Cut trade even deeper proportionate to the offense. It’s not rocket science.

[Roch + 537]

2 hours ago, Boat said:

So pull our military from around the world unless they pay for it. Cut trade with all countries until the balance is even. Cut trade even deeper proportionate to the offense. It’s not rocket science.

No

It's much more complex than that.

There are much better, smarter  ways to deal with this.

[0R0 + 6,251]

4 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

For a few months I do not follow Chinese data (no time), but I do not comprehend why China should not(by some magic, please explain what type of magic)  reach 60-70% of US GDP / per capita level, say like Italy or Spain in 20 years.

China has definitely better infrastructure than Italy or Spain.

And builds 1 trillion USD of infrastructure each and every year.

Better talent pool and better education than Italy or Spain.

Better technology level than Italy or Spain.

Much better R&D output than Italy or Spain

And so on, and so on.

All the Chinese economic indicators are more healthy than Italian or Spanish.

It is obvoius for nearly everybody that China will reach 60% of US GDP / per capita level.

China even with CCP dictatorship has still better governance than Italy or Spain.

Guys from US, please try to leave wishful thinking behind, and concentrate on facts on the ground.

Actually people like Gerry Madoux or ORO are CCP best friends. China needs people, to underestimate its strengths and think it is developing country on the brink of destruction. The more, the better.

As has always been the case, human capital in China is lacking in investment, indeed, the reason they are so rich in infrastructure is that 3 of 4 people do not enter high school. The illusion of China as a whole being on a trajectory to 1st world productivity and incomes comes from the 1/4 of the population that live in the main Tier 1 cities Those are the CCP membership and their family members.

The rest of the people are migrant labor that has had incomes grow slower than GDP for the  decade and rurals that had been lagging urban income in the prior decades but have seen incomes grow ahead of GDP this decade. Their productivity topped off in 2014 and output in 2016, and they are retiring and dying off. Floods and food animal diseases have joined contaminated aquifers and loss of arable land reduced output and make farmers more valuable for the foreseeable future.

That intensity of labor in agriculture and lack of education is the main issue that keeps 75% of China outside the realm of an advanced economy.  The old boom in China accrues to the top layer of society while the rest are remaining increasingly behind them. In the 30 years of growth till 2018, China has not increased its relative investment in education for the broader population as % of GDP. The 3 of 4 ending education in middle school figure has not changed significantly in all that time.

Thus your projection is impossible to achieve.

[0R0 + 6,251]

4 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

US is still 1st in nominal GDP and China is still 2nd in nominal GDP (not vice versa) because decent haircut costs 100 USD in New York and only 30 USD in Beijing.

I is $10 for a basic cut in suburban Midwest, $20 for the full deal. 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

1 minute ago, 0R0 said:

I is $10 for a basic cut in suburban Midwest, $20 for the full deal. 

And by my watch my last one took exactly nine minutes.

Another reason to leave New York City.

[0R0 + 6,251]

4 hours ago, Marcin2 said:

Better talent pool and better education than Italy or Spain.

That one is simply not true, as pointed out before.

The main difference is that Chinese are willing to do 12 hour days and 6 days a week. Second is a very high savings rate among the upper class.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

Did someone mention Angela Merkel?

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

 

[RichieRich$ + 65]

China and Germany are the 2 most vile Countries there are, Merkel is just a deep down true Nazi and wants to be part of the globalist that have a big say in running the world with no Countries having there own independence, China Communist rulers want to be the biggest dick in the Globalist circle, there only problem is they are financially close to 300% over and above the GDP Annually, The daily manipulation of there Countries financial rates are a joke! There greatest fears are the 95% of there population have no clue about what it’s like in the world in 2020, They keep them like jackasses with blinders on and this is why they violated the deal with Hong Kong, they are deathly afraid if the 95 percent ( most likely higher ) see what they are not able to do there would be another mass uprising and the Chinese Communist Political Party would be overthrown and there leaders would be killed.

China looks at the United States and though we’re currently closing in on 97-98 percent of our GDP, We can manage our debt because the majority percentage is held by the American People! 
 

China’s rapid development of military technology is do to the theft or reverse engineering of equipment they gained access to but they still don’t have the expertise to make these systems correctly.

The Globalist want complete control over everything and every Country to have them RULED & CONTROLED by a Committee of select Globalist of the likes of Bill Gates and the dorky founder of Facebook- Suckerberg and SOROS and major Global Banking Groups.

These people should be rounded up and removed from the face of the Earth.

HAPPY NEW YEAR! 

 

 

 

[specinho + 470]

On 12/31/2020 at 4:03 AM, 0R0 said:

Those would all count into GDP as industrial output for the sticks cement and shovels, and as services (construction) for the work.

That is why they resorted to a decades long campaign of bribery and blackmail to capture the leaderships of Western countries into their Intel operations, and thieving of intellectual property. That is why they released CV19 on the world, and it is why they rigged the US election to install their puppets in the White House, governor's mansions, Judiciary, and in the Senate and House. 

 

Concept of GDP might have a little share of skewed representation at times. I might be wrong but this is opened for discussion................

For example, a country with 100 residents, and 2 bosses, producing gross amount $ 100 000 value of goods. GDP per capita = $100 000/ 100 = $ 1000 per capita.......  e.g. cambodia

Shall there is 1000 residents, gross production value $ 100 000, GDP per capita would be $ 100 000/ 1000 = $ 100 per capita. However, out of the 1000 residents, may be 60% children, 15% retirees or old folks, working force 20% and 5% unemployed.......... The real GDP per capita might be $100 000/ 200 = $500??

How do we ascertain we have applied the right value on the right condition in our projection??

If, "there is nothing new under the sun for centuries" is correct, most of us, if not all, started by learning from someone else, copy exactly, blindly. Until one day, we are matured enough to grow out of the common bar....... Only the outstanding few percentage could marvel out from the conditioning frames, create something new and useful to suit the needs...... We might not know if they might have surpassed us in those we deemed they copied. If we do, it might overwhelmed us how far they have gone while we keep accusing them of being thieves........

Trump and Xi were good friends because of Jared Kushner and the extravaganza national banquet offered by China to US entourage. Trump and Russia were in good relationship out of blood tie. Trump could have been nominated for the noble peace prize due to these amidst chaos stirred prior to this ......... There might be no solid reason, China or Russia is involved in manipulating the latest political election of the US. In addition, Covid 19 was reported started by a militant participated in a sport tournament in China....... Where are we heading with these leads or accusations?? Trying to test the leadership of the elected??

On 12/31/2020 at 7:14 AM, Roch said:

This is really only about German auto mfg permitted to build and sell electric cars in China.

If China is producing mini electric car at the price of $ 5000, it might worth more to have the old model of business be continued i.e. sustaining status of " imported cars made in Germany " to suit the needs of the growing well off...... If they were to consider a China made foreign car, they might turn to other brands that not compromising its standard for sales, no?? With plenty of money, quality of products would ensure sustainability and news spred by words of mouth, no??

Edited January 1, 2021 by specinho

[Rasmus Jorgensen + 1,169]

22 hours ago, Gerry Maddoux said:

And by my watch my last one took exactly nine minutes.

How much hair do you have?

[Roch + 537]

Peter Navarro , EU - CHINA Trade Agreement bad deal for Europe.  Is assumes China will honor their agreements.  Never have , Never will.  This is all about Germany allowed to sell electric cars in China.  The rest of Europe screwed.  Italy and Greece have already sold out to China.  They even sold their ports to China.  

https://video.foxbusiness.com/v/6219442241001/#sp=show-clips 

[Gerry Maddoux + 3,627]

3 hours ago, Rasmus Jorgensen said:

On 12/31/2020 at 2:25 PM, Gerry Maddoux said:

And by my watch my last one took exactly nine minutes.

How much hair do you have?

My barber said she'd just as soon be cutting hair as looking for it, Rasmus.