The Debate Starts : Remake Republican Party vs. Third Party

[Boat + 1,325]

15 hours ago, 0R0 said:

I think the Republican establishment mistook Trump for having ridden into power on their party's force, rather than having retained their power because of Trump. They are entirely off. Trump has become the Republican party and he should continue within it and have his people barge into the RNC and reconfigure it and remove the entirety of the old guard as well as the machine politicians from McConnel on down to the house reps governors and leaders in the state legislatures. Nobody who was fighting against Trump should pass a primary. 

That means the Trumpists need to create an actual movement of activists focused not on the person per se but the aggregate of the ideas he promoted and put forward. These principles of constitutionality and free market economics and helpful rather than burdensome government. 

 

I don't know if the Republican leadership will survive past this week as viable politicians. If the Q story carries any water and the physical evidence is that it is being implemented but the media is not reporting it. The military activity in DC is looking more like a buildout of a jail for the government and its officials. It appears to have the security access on the outside (bolts) and intrusion obstacles on the inside as you do in a jail fence with the barbed wire on the inside. The basic Q concept is that the US in its corporate form is gone and its new form is a resumption of the constitutional republic, which currently has no officers, as the last election was to populate the corporate positions. Thus the military is faced with having no civilian oversight in authority over it. In addition, they have at hand evidence of the differences between the votes as cast and the election counts giving no legitimate branch of either the executive or legislative of either house. They have a broad number of officials at all levels being subverted by China and corporate interests related to it, and the new left radical movements that China has sponsored, which act outside the law in violence, bullying and intimidation.

While the military does have Trump as the continuity factor for civilian oversight, it has to make the distinction that a foreign infiltrated election had occurred, Thus nullifying it entirely, leaving the incumbent president in office. The spook rumor mill indicates that 3 consultations on the matter were made. with the Supreme ct. justices. 

 

I am not clear that the Republican party can survive Biden at all. The cancel culture left is making the Republican party impossible as an institution. The Dem/liberal insistence that all must be viewed via race and gender means that the basic Republican and Trump principle enshrined in the constitution of equality before the law is incompatible with Dems and their progressive movement, which is race/gender tribal primitivism, and thus incompatible with any concepts of equality. It is only compatible with fascism. . 

I think your party will have to give up constitutional propaganda since it lead to threats of death to your own leaders. The North Korean loyalty test effect. 
One good thing happened, since most of the best athletes in the world are people of color and they live in the US, they will now be welcomed on the White House.

[Boat + 1,325]

20 minutes ago, Roch said:

That very nominee removed their mother from a Nursing Home while putting other elderly high risk individuals into nursing homes and certain death. 

Now Biden wants to put them in charge of the U.S. health.

Only in the U.S. Democratic Party.

It’s Trump that gets credit for 400,000 deaths. One piss poor politician. He topped GW’s legacy of Hurricane Katrina. When the going gets tough, let-em-die. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

14 minutes ago, Boat said:

It’s Trump that gets credit for 400,000 deaths. One piss poor politician. He topped GW’s legacy of Hurricane Katrina. When the going gets tough, let-em-die. 

Not to quibble, and it's still a terrible number, but I thought the number of pure Covid deaths stands somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-90k?

@0R0???

Johns Hopkins: A closer look at U.S. deaths due to COVID-19

(Excerpt)

The CDC classified all deaths that are related to COVID-19 simply as COVID-19 deaths. Even patients dying from other underlying diseases but are infected with COVID-19 count as COVID-19 deaths. This is likely the main explanation as to why COVID-19 deaths drastically increased while deaths by all other diseases experienced a significant decrease.

“All of this points to no evidence that COVID-19 created any excess deaths. Total death numbers are not above normal death numbers. We found no evidence to the contrary,” Briand concluded.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,555]

26 minutes ago, Boat said:

It’s Trump that gets credit for 400,000 deaths. One piss poor politician. He topped GW’s legacy of Hurricane Katrina. When the going gets tough, let-em-die. 

That makes about as much sense as your commentary as to Trump stance on corporate citizenship and power. You truly hold society accountable for your circumstances do your not?

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Roch said:

That very nominee removed their mother from a Nursing Home while putting other elderly high risk individuals into nursing homes and certain death. 

Now Biden wants to put them in charge of the U.S. health.

Only in the U.S. Democratic Party.

And so it begins

[Symmetry + 109]

1 hour ago, Dan Warnick said:

Not to quibble, and it's still a terrible number, but I thought the number of pure Covid deaths stands somewhere in the neighborhood of 60-90k?

@0R0???

That is more than a quibble, it is rubbish.

Why do you still look to 0R0 for answers?  He has been wrong about everything.

As I said, read the threads from the beginning....

How many people said "we will see on the 20th!"  Well we saw, they get a big plate of crow to eat.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Symmetry

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

2 hours ago, Boat said:

I think your party will have to give up constitutional propaganda since it lead to threats of death to your own leaders. The North Korean loyalty test effect. 
One good thing happened, since most of the best athletes in the world are people of color and they live in the US, they will now be welcomed on the White House.

Such HORSESHT! They were welcomed before, but being easily programmed, or just plain stupid on their own they believed the lies promulgated by the MSM since before Trump was elected. Your dear leader was the one demanding loyalty tests from soldiers guarding his sorry ass. 

The most popular presidential candidate in history, let's just compare upvotes to downvotes shall we? 

[Symmetry + 109]

 

Not really ward.

Careful you do not disrespect the nation with your treasonous political protests!

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Symmetry

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

20 minutes ago, Symmetry said:

That is more than a quibble, it is rubbish.

Why do you still look to 0R0 for answers?  He has been wrong about everything.

As I said, read the threads from the beginning....

How many people said "we will see on the 20th!"  Well we saw, they get a big plate of crow to eat.

It is not rubbish, according to Johns Hopkins, who have the credentials and the facts to support their position.  It is not my position; it is their position.  Are you seriously better informed than Johns Hopkins?

What exactly is wrong with saying "we will see on the 20th"?  We did see on the 20th, and Joe Biden was just inaugurated.  He is the President of the United States.  Investigations may or may not continue or begin, or they may end up dropping the entire affair and burying it.

[Symmetry + 109]

12 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

It is not rubbish, according to Johns Hopkins, who have the credentials and the facts to support their position.  It is not my position; it is their position.  Are you seriously better informed than Johns Hopkins?

What exactly is wrong with saying "we will see on the 20th"?  We did see on the 20th, and Joe Biden was just inaugurated.  He is the President of the United States.  Investigations may or may not continue or begin, or they may end up dropping the entire affair and burying it.

That is not the official position of Johns Hopkins, not even close.

The "we will see on the 20th" comments - if you bother to check - clearly intended to convey the message that on or before the 20th Trump would have been found the victor.   Wrong people should accept they were wrong.

 

Edited January 21, 2021 by Symmetry

[ronwagn + 6,290]

23 hours ago, surrept33 said:

I suspect the Republicans will have to defenestrate the Trumpian xenophobia and be a larger tent party (this is more or less their gameplan after 2012) to be competitive with various demographics.  Luckily, parties are just labels for organizing people, the Republicans will be back sort of like after Watergate, but it's pretty silly especially in 2020 to have loyalty to one person - just replace him w/ someone else who will go viral? maybe trump was the first real social media age politician, at least in the United States, but perhaps the incentives were set perversely for the social media networks to "recommend" content that would maximize net churn rate rather than inclusion of other factors to prevent too strong "in group/out group"-type of social dynamics (it's weird than this type of divisive politics had basically turned up /everywhere/?). It's good that more recently, they've tried to modify things such that there is a bound diversity of sentiment per-eye ball (this is usually adding something that is like an information entropy).

Trumpists have fought there way to owning 80% of Republicans. Ten percent more, probably. In two years we have a chance to take over the Senate and the House. The presidential election is four years away. What we need now is a sub-party that endorses Republicans. One name is Patriot Party. I favor giving a Patriot endorsement to deserving candidates. The Republican Party will be the actual party. The Patriots should help raise money for their candidates in the primaries. After the nominations just win as many seats as possible. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

1 minute ago, ronwagn said:

Trumpists have fought there way to owning 80% of Republicans. Ten percent more, probably. In two years we have a chance to take over the Senate and the House. The presidential election is four years away. What we need now is a sub-party that endorses Republicans. One name is Patriot Party. I favor giving a Patriot endorsement to deserving candidates. The Republican Party will be the actual party. The Patriots should help raise money for their candidates in the primaries. After the nominations just win as many seats as possible. 

Respectfully, Ron, I don't like all the sub-party crap.  I think it was @Jan van Eck that said "all politics is local politics" or something to that effect.  That means, to me at least, that the Representatives and the Senators should be elected by their constituents and their constituents alone.  That is what diversifies and provides balance in DC.  Just my two cents worth.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

1 minute ago, Dan Warnick said:

Respectfully, Ron, I don't like all the sub-party crap.  I think it was @Jan van Eck that said "all politics is local politics" or something to that effect.  That means, to me at least, that the Representatives and the Senators should be elected by their constituents and their constituents alone.  That is what diversifies and provides balance in DC.  Just my two cents worth.

It is primarily a way to educate the electorate to who is trustworthy. The people often need help in choosing who to vote for. Many politicians are devious.  The strongest candidate usually wins the nomination anyway. We need no more Liz Cheney, or Romney etc. RINOS. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

8 hours ago, surrept33 said:

Obviously, the whole qanon thing was started @ 4chan (or any derivation of that site, so I would give it almost no chance of not being a meme): https://www.bellingcat.com/news/americas/2021/01/07/the-making-of-qanon-a-crowdsourced-conspiracy/

^- seems mostly accurate, especially the LARPing. 

There is the issue of examining the Q narrative and its predictions of 2020 and 2021 from posts put up in 2017 and 2018. If you follow the rather cryptic narrative with its indirect clues and go by its goal, to dismantle the Chinese communist and globalist conspiracies and corruptions including the demise of the US corporation, the use of the insurrection act 14th amendment sec. III  and the default of the reestablished republic into martial law in the absence of a civilian government, then 1. The election could not fill the organic constitution's offices since it would only come into effect at the termination of the US corp in receivership, purportedly Nov 6. 2. The legal fiction past FDR's crime of 1933 was the declaration of war by the incorporated municipal United States composed of DC, the 10 mile square, and conquest of the several states which allowed FDR to confiscate the gold under the trading with the enemy act. 3. Thus the current condition is that DC is still at war with the several states, which are under military rule in the absence of civilian government as no elections had been conducted under the organic constitution thus 4.  DC is under military siege and must be "conquered" and the officers of its corporation would become prisoners of war. hence the fencing in of the Institutions and their surrounding by military forces of the states (national guard). 5. The military would be on its own, as Trump would also have been last elected to preside over a Corp US. 6. Besides these aspects, the election fraud produced an illegal population of the offices of Pres. and Congress (both houses) of the corp. US so once the fraud is completed by swearing in then it becomes a vacant corporate US government not elected according to its corporate charter ( constitution), thus having no officers or board, and having expired and been canceled. 7 The final circumstances require a military rule to conduct a  new election to populate the Federal elected offices. 

The double treason of running a corporation occupying the several states and of usurping the elected government through electoral fraud would pretty much put the entire Federal government on the tribunals' docket. But here I can't quite unravel the legal concepts entirely due to the duality of actual law and rule by color of law. 

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

On 1/19/2021 at 8:38 PM, Roch said:

I'm inclined to vote for a third Party.  Leave the Republican Party to Mitch McConnell , Mitt Romney, Liz Cheney and the Lincoln Project

I think that Trump is thinking of calling it the Patriot Party.  I suppose it could be modeled after the 1930's Bund organization in the US:

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

6 hours ago, 0R0 said:

There is the issue of examining the Q narrative and its predictions of 2020 and 2021 from posts put up in 2017 and 2018.

As Senator Ben Sasse noted, the QAnon folks are "cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs," but at least in some cases, they are belatedly realizing that the whole thing was a giant ridiculous lie. 

Sen. Ben Sasse:  QAnon is Destroying the GOP From Within

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2021/01/conspiracy-theories-will-doom-republican-party/617707/

Eugene goodman is an American hero. At a pivotal moment on January 6, the veteran United States Capitol Police officer single-handedly prevented untold bloodshed. Staring down an angry, advancing mob, he retreated up a marble staircase, calmly wielding his baton to delay his pursuers while calling out their position to his fellow officers. At the top of the steps, still alone and standing just a few yards from the chamber where senators and Vice President Mike Pence had been certifying the Electoral College’s vote, Goodman strategically lured dozens of the mayhem-minded away from an unguarded door to the Senate floor.

The leader of that flank of the mob, later identified by the FBI as Douglas Jensen, wore a T-shirt emblazoned with a red-white-and-blue Q—the insignia of the delusional QAnon conspiracy theory. Its supporters believe that a righteous Donald Trump is leading them in a historic quest to expose the U.S. government’s capture by a global network of cannibalistic pedophiles: not just “deep state” actors in the intelligence community, but Chief Justice John Roberts and a dozen-plus senators, including me. Now Trump’s own vice president is supposedly in on it, too. According to the FBI, Jensen “wanted to have his T-shirt seen on video so that ‘Q’ could ‘get the credit.’”

. . . The newly elected Representative Marjorie Taylor Greene is cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs. She once ranted that “there’s a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to take this global cabal of Satan-worshiping pedophiles out, and I think we have the president to do it.” During her campaign, House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy had a choice: disavow her campaign and potentially lose a Republican seat, or welcome her into his caucus and try to keep a lid on her ludicrous ideas. McCarthy failed the leadership test and sat on the sidelines. Now in Congress, Greene isn’t going to just back McCarthy as leader and stay quiet. She’s already announced plans to try to impeach Joe Biden on his first full day as president. She’ll keep making fools out of herself, her constituents, and the Republican Party.

If the GOP is to have a future outside the fever dreams of internet trolls, we have to call out falsehoods and conspiracy theories unequivocally. We have to repudiate people who peddle those lies.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Jeffrey Brown

[0R0 + 6,251]

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/20/biden-pentagon-transition-460768

Perhaps the Pentagon does not accept Biden as a president at all. Does not consider the Senate to have its powers to confirm appointments and is perhaps a day or two away from arresting the Biden team altogether. There is still room to interpret this between counter coup and poor transition practices due to partisanship. There is also a question of whether career people are kept inaccessible to Biden's team because they are busy moving forces around to capture him. 

 

The Biden team had particularly poor visibility into the special operations and low-intensity conflict portfolio. While Trump political appointees in that office were allowed to meet with the transition, many of the career officials have been kept “at arm’s length,” said one defense official, calling the effort unprecedented.

 

Meanwhile, every request for information the Biden team filed had to be reviewed by the general counsel’s office, and many were scrubbed of all useful information. Many requests were never answered, and the ones that did come back were thoroughly “sanitized.”

 

Some of this reticence may have been due to the fact that in nearly every transition meeting, “minders” from the Defense Department General Counsel’s office were present and frequently cut off the civilian Pentagon officials, citing “predecisional operational matters.”

 

[Boat + 1,325]

9 hours ago, 0R0 said:

There is the issue of examining the Q narrative and its predictions of 2020 and 2021 from posts put up in 2017 and 2018. If you follow the rather cryptic narrative with its indirect clues and go by its goal, to dismantle the Chinese communist and globalist conspiracies and corruptions including the demise of the US corporation, the use of the insurrection act 14th amendment sec. III  and the default of the reestablished republic into martial law in the absence of a civilian government, then 1. The election could not fill the organic constitution's offices since it would only come into effect at the termination of the US corp in receivership, purportedly Nov 6. 2. The legal fiction past FDR's crime of 1933 was the declaration of war by the incorporated municipal United States composed of DC, the 10 mile square, and conquest of the several states which allowed FDR to confiscate the gold under the trading with the enemy act. 3. Thus the current condition is that DC is still at war with the several states, which are under military rule in the absence of civilian government as no elections had been conducted under the organic constitution thus 4.  DC is under military siege and must be "conquered" and the officers of its corporation would become prisoners of war. hence the fencing in of the Institutions and their surrounding by military forces of the states (national guard). 5. The military would be on its own, as Trump would also have been last elected to preside over a Corp US. 6. Besides these aspects, the election fraud produced an illegal population of the offices of Pres. and Congress (both houses) of the corp. US so once the fraud is completed by swearing in then it becomes a vacant corporate US government not elected according to its corporate charter ( constitution), thus having no officers or board, and having expired and been canceled. 7 The final circumstances require a military rule to conduct a  new election to populate the Federal elected offices. 

The double treason of running a corporation occupying the several states and of usurping the elected government through electoral fraud would pretty much put the entire Federal government on the tribunals' docket. But here I can't quite unravel the legal concepts entirely due to the duality of actual law and rule by color of law. 

If you want to revitalize your party start with no immigration and promise to prosecute those businesses and individuals that hire them. This was the issue that put Trump on the map.Unfortunately he got caught up in the wall, seperating kids from parents, banning entry from nations etc. Smoke and mirrors stuff.

If the problem with legal and Illegal immigration were approached by actually solving it instead of politicizing it there are many votes to be had.

Since WWII the US has added over 100 million people and what has that achieved. More large cities? A few more billionaires? Certainly hasn't solved Federal Debt.  1/2 the population makes less than $30,000. I’d say we’re going in the wrong direction and adding more people will not solve anything.

Edited January 21, 2021 by Boat

[Boat + 1,325]

Since the Donald demands loyalty to the extreme does that mean any government worker that thought attacking the capital was justified now forfeit their jobs? Do we need to screen every cop, military soldier, politician and citizen to identify those who would destroy 200+ years of the Republic? 
This is what a Trump brings to our lives. Why should we give a contract to group that has a history of insurrection. Why would we want to do business with those that would want to hang Mike Pence. 
I personally don’t support any of that but when I saw Trump demand loyalty and fire dozens for differing opinions I knew he was bad seed. We need differing opinions. We don’t need purges of differing thought. 

[Jeffrey Brown + 208]

How a New Religion Could Rise From the Ashes of QAnon

https://www.thedailybeast.com/how-a-new-religion-could-rise-from-the-ashes-of-qanon

If the past has taught us anything it is that failed prophecies and frustrated predictions don’t always mark the beginning of the end for radical social movements.

Excerpt:

Social psychologists call this phenomenon cognitive dissonance. In their classic treatment, When Prophecy Fails, Leon Festinger, Henry Riecken, and Stanley Schachter studied the case of the Seekers, a small UFO religion that believed that they would leave the Earth in a flyer saucer before daybreak on Dec. 21, 1954. After the non-arrival of extraterrestrials, the group’s leader, Dorothy Martin, changed her name and continued to prophesy. Festinger and his colleagues concluded that when groups are deeply convinced that they are correct and individuals have social support from other members of their group, beliefs can be maintained even in the face of overwhelming counter evidence. According to Festinger, fringe members of a movement experiencing a moment of cognitive dissonance are more likely to admit they were wrong, but devotees double-down, reinterpret, and regroup.

Though Festinger’s work has been criticized by others, the theory can explain how some people cling to their belief structures even when they have been proven wrong. In the case of QAnon this has already happened.

Hilary Clinton was supposed to have been arrested three years ago. Joe Biden was never supposed to have become president.

As Chine Labbe, European managing editor at NewsGuard told the Financial Times, “there’s been lots of predictions from the beginning, none of which have come to fruition… but this didn’t prevent the [QAnon] Movement from growing.”

QAnon has already claimed a seat in Congress and branched out into the wellness industry, so there’s no reason to think that the 2020 U.S. election will be the death of the movement. It certainly doesn’t help that former President Donald Trump said in his parting remarks that he “will be back in some form.” All of which suggests that even if Trump is convicted, QAnon Trump loyalists—like supporters of Nero—may be holding out hope for years to come.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

2 hours ago, 0R0 said:

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/01/20/biden-pentagon-transition-460768

Perhaps the Pentagon does not accept Biden as a president at all. Does not consider the Senate to have its powers to confirm appointments and is perhaps a day or two away from arresting the Biden team altogether. There is still room to interpret this between counter coup and poor transition practices due to partisanship. There is also a question of whether career people are kept inaccessible to Biden's team because they are busy moving forces around to capture him. 

 

The Biden team had particularly poor visibility into the special operations and low-intensity conflict portfolio. While Trump political appointees in that office were allowed to meet with the transition, many of the career officials have been kept “at arm’s length,” said one defense official, calling the effort unprecedented.

 

Meanwhile, every request for information the Biden team filed had to be reviewed by the general counsel’s office, and many were scrubbed of all useful information. Many requests were never answered, and the ones that did come back were thoroughly “sanitized.”

 

Some of this reticence may have been due to the fact that in nearly every transition meeting, “minders” from the Defense Department General Counsel’s office were present and frequently cut off the civilian Pentagon officials, citing “predecisional operational matters.”

With all due respect, I believe our military has no valid power to act without proper authority from the President, the current sitting President.  I mean, I could be wrong, but any takeover orchestrated or carried out solely by the military would be blatantly illegal and, if nothing else, would set a horrible precedent. 

[0R0 + 6,251]

48 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

With all due respect, I believe our military has no valid power to act without proper authority from the President, the current sitting President.  I mean, I could be wrong, but any takeover orchestrated or carried out solely by the military would be blatantly illegal and, if nothing else, would set a horrible precedent. 

Not necessarily. 

If they know the government is illegitimate, e.g. a Marxist takeover or an electoral fraud, they are obliged by law to separate from it and conduct the rule of the country themselves under martial law. 

We shall see what they do. The starting point is midnight Jan 20 when the prior president's term ends. They will either take orders from Biden and his appointments, or will eventually arrest them. 

Quite frankly i don't know.

On the popular front, the "Biden voters" are apparently not there to support their "President" 

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

41 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

Not necessarily. 

If they know the government is illegitimate, e.g. a Marxist takeover or an electoral fraud, they are obliged by law to separate from it and conduct the rule of the country themselves under martial law. 

We shall see what they do. The starting point is midnight Jan 20 when the prior president's term ends. They will either take orders from Biden and his appointments, or will eventually arrest them. 

Quite frankly i don't know.

On the popular front, the "Biden voters" are apparently not there to support their "President" 

 

Show me the law that states that the military can act unilaterally in this regard.  Everything I saw in that video could have been from a thread here on OilPrice, and have just as much authority: None.

[0R0 + 6,251]

38 minutes ago, Dan Warnick said:

Show me the law that states that the military can act unilaterally in this regard.  Everything I saw in that video could have been from a thread here on OilPrice, and have just as much authority: None.

I am not at the point of looking into Q narratives where I have tracked back to supporting documents, Up to just a month ago I was looking at it in bemused disbelief just trying to figure out what they are saying. 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

6 minutes ago, 0R0 said:

I am not at the point of looking into Q narratives where I have tracked back to supporting documents, Up to just a month ago I was looking at it in bemused disbelief just trying to figure out what they are saying. 

Fair enough.  But have any of "Q's" predictions come to fruition?  I checked them out back when Tom was still around, and they just didn't hold water for me.  It's never ending, just around the corner, just a few days more, did you see this or that, if the President will just sign this document or that, if the military.....