China Trade War Against Australia Backfires

[ronwagn + 6,290]

https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-trade-war-against-australia-backfires_3674931.html

China Trade War Against Australia Backfires

One of our top allies is standing up to China. RCWJanuary 27, 2021 Updated: January 27, 2021

 

BY REUTERS

 

January 27, 2021 Updated: January 27, 2021

 

[surrept33 + 609]

It's too bad Trump (and Bernie) killed the TPP. Maybe there is a chance for it a revival (and a rapprochement with NATO or the EU). 

Keep in mind you most likely need a lot of multilateral treaties to have the leverage against a economy as massive as China given that they are the largest trading partner for most of the world. 

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-u-s-worlds-trading-partner/

 

 

 

 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

51 minutes ago, ronwagn said:

https://www.theepochtimes.com/china-trade-war-against-australia-backfires_3674931.html

China Trade War Against Australia Backfires

One of our top allies is standing up to China. RCWJanuary 27, 2021 Updated: January 27, 2021

 

BY REUTERS

 

January 27, 2021 Updated: January 27, 2021

 

The U.S. Government, with full (positive) media coverage, needs to support Australia and put up a united front.  All other Allied countries also need to join in on this.  Australia is showing courage and character, and it would seem they are largely left on their own.  This, even though Australia and Australians are supportive of the U.S.

[SUZNV + 1,197]

17 hours ago, surrept33 said:

It's too bad Trump (and Bernie) killed the TPP. Maybe there is a chance for it a revival (and a rapprochement with NATO or the EU). 

Keep in mind you most likely need a lot of multilateral treaties to have the leverage against a economy as massive as China given that they are the largest trading partner for most of the world. 

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-u-s-worlds-trading-partner/

 

 

 

 

I happened to have 3 citizenship with TPP countries  and I don't have any hope for that affecting China, even before Trump's time ( I haven't been in the US yet).

To me have it or not won't matter much but surely more import to the US:

- Most countries are exporting farm and diary products, except Japan. US and Japan don't have direct competition in main product export with China. TPP would block EU products (cars) more than block China products. Unless US have a plan for home made manufacturing again, which back then they don't. Countless of factories close or move else where.

-It does  open a backdoor. China  moved lots of factories to Vietnam for preparation during that time, with Chinese labors. Besides China is good in joining a group and dominate it (WTO WHO) or have private trade agreement with each country in the group (EU).  

-NZ is a founder already in TPP. NZ politicians back then seemed to make a big deal out of that, but many Kiwis didn't buy it. They even has a protest in Auckland in 2014 the same day I got interview for US visa. What do they have to export to the US? Beef? Diary products? You don't need US came into TPP for exporting and importing Apple (opposite season in North and South hemispheres).

TPP seemed more like a diversion to buy time for China to concentrate in building military complex on disputed islands. Philippine lost faith in the US during that time and turned to China . Stopping China building these islands or tariff (with leads to trade war)  would make more sense.

(To be honest I have no idea about Hillary or Trump back then, I first leaned toward Hillary in 2016 because her announcement in Singapore 2012 about US has core interest in South China Sea, and Bill Clinton was a favorite US president in Vietnam and China, but then to Trump because non of Hillary policies made any sense, my first taste of mainstream bias in the US).

Edited January 29, 2021 by SUZNV

[surrept33 + 609]

1 hour ago, SUZNV said:

I happened to have 3 citizenship with TPP countries  and I don't have any hope for that affecting China, even before Trump's time ( I haven't been in the US yet).

To me have it or not won't matter much but surely more import to the US:

- Most countries are exporting farm and diary products, except Japan. US and Japan don't have direct competition in main product export with China. TPP would block EU products (cars) more than block China products. Unless US have a plan for home made manufacturing again, which back then they don't. Countless of factories close or move else where.

-It does  open a backdoor. China  moved lots of factories to Vietnam for preparation during that time, with Chinese labors. Besides China is good in joining a group and dominate it (WTO WHO) or have private trade agreement with each country in the group (EU).  

-NZ is a founder already in TPP. NZ politicians back then seemed to make a big deal out of that, but many Kiwis didn't buy it. They even has a protest in Auckland in 2014 the same day I got interview for US visa. What do they have to export to the US? Beef? Diary products? You don't need US came into TPP for exporting and importing Apple (opposite season in North and South hemispheres).

TPP seemed more like a diversion to buy time for China to concentrate in building military complex on disputed islands. Philippine lost faith in the US during that time and turned to China . Stopping China building these islands or tariff (with leads to trade war)  would make more sense.

(To be honest I have no idea about Hillary or Trump back then, I first leaned toward Hillary in 2016 because her announcement in Singapore 2012 about US has core interest in South China Sea, and Bill Clinton was a favorite US president in Vietnam and China, but then to Trump because non of Hillary policies made any sense, my first taste of mainstream bias in the US).

Keep in mind that the US negotiated a lot of structural reforms in the TPP countries, especially against state owned enterprises (SOEs), reform of digital laws, and things like environmental and labor normalization that keeps labor cheap in some of the TPP countries. China has their own version of the TPP, the RCEP, that has none of these protections. 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

20 hours ago, surrept33 said:

It's too bad Trump (and Bernie) killed the TPP. Maybe there is a chance for it a revival (and a rapprochement with NATO or the EU). 

Keep in mind you most likely need a lot of multilateral treaties to have the leverage against a economy as massive as China given that they are the largest trading partner for most of the world. 

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/china-u-s-worlds-trading-partner/

With Trump we were on a good course over the long term. With Biden we have given up on our manufacturing and export business. Biden is wasting money pushing Green programs while China burns more coal and will sell us much of the Green equipment needed. It is a lose, lose plan. Fewer jobs, higher costs for the deplorables and those who are happy BIden is in but aren't wealthy. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

23 hours ago, Dan Warnick said:

The U.S. Government, with full (positive) media coverage, needs to support Australia and put up a united front.  All other Allied countries also need to join in on this.  Australia is showing courage and character, and it would seem they are largely left on their own.  This, even though Australia and Australians are supportive of the U.S.

It's going to be complicated.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/28/china-calls-on-australia-to-follow-new-zealands-lead-in-how-it-deals-with-beijing

[SUZNV + 1,197]

4 hours ago, surrept33 said:

Keep in mind that the US negotiated a lot of structural reforms in the TPP countries, especially against state owned enterprises (SOEs), reform of digital laws, and things like environmental and labor normalization that keeps labor cheap in some of the TPP countries. China has their own version of the TPP, the RCEP, that has none of these protections. 

If US joined TPP,  then RCEP would undermine TPP significantly and would act as back door to the US market. All of the effort of US forming new TPP would have been wasted.

It is common practice to pretend to have reforms in SOEs in totalitarian party, no one can really tell. But Vietnam SOEs are reforming without the present of US in CPTPP anyway. And the labor in Vietnam is much cheaper by default.

And China could make lots of promise to join TPP later on as well and then do nothing, just like when they joined WTO. They expressed they wanted to join TPP at the moment as they have more products to export. 

Further more, even EU considered  China as "systemic rival". TPP could be undermined easily the same way.

My view about TPP and pivot to Asia plan is very likely political show. If US wanted more exporting to any economy block, they should start manufacturing more. If US wanted to stop China and gained prestige with the South East Asia, they shouldn't let China solidify these strategic military complex islands from the beginning instead of take that long for a TPP that can be easily countered.

Edited January 29, 2021 by SUZNV

[SUZNV + 1,197]

41 minutes ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

It's going to be complicated.

https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2021/jan/28/china-calls-on-australia-to-follow-new-zealands-lead-in-how-it-deals-with-beijing

NZ has never complained about China and China is their important trade partner especially in real estate, dairy products, tourism and education exporting. NZ just stopped foreigners to own house in NZ since 2017.Tourism in NZ was booming since the Lord of The Rings. New Zealand's diplomatic position with the US was downgraded from being an ally to a "friend" in 1987 when they introduced Nuclear Free Act. Some of my US colleagues seem like NZ and ask me if they should move there. 

Back in 2010 I read an Australia newspaper in a fish n chip shop in NZ that debated should Australia choose US or China and it concluded should choose US. US marines station in Darwin Australia since 2011. However I was surprised that Australia and Sweden were brave enough to criticize China when Covid19 started. I recalled China told NZ that they would understand if NZ stayed along side Australia and it would not damage NZ-China relationship.

Edited January 29, 2021 by SUZNV

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

31 minutes ago, SUZNV said:

I recalled China told NZ that they would understand if NZ stayed along side Australia and it would not damage NZ-China relationship.

I'm sure it will be fine until it's not. Beware the camel's nose in your tent as the Arabs say.

[Boat + 1,323]

On 1/28/2021 at 1:23 AM, Dan Warnick said:

The U.S. Government, with full (positive) media coverage, needs to support Australia and put up a united front.  All other Allied countries also need to join in on this.  Australia is showing courage and character, and it would seem they are largely left on their own.  This, even though Australia and Australians are supportive of the U.S.

I think all American allies should be committed as one in trade sanctions with rogue countries like Russia, China, Iran, N Korea etc. This includes Asian countries like Japan and S Korea.

This idea of a world order being bad is rubbish. Nobody including the CIA can hack. Nobody can claim international waters etc. 

The power of fairness and common sense has to rule. 
The world decided to end bunker fuels as partners. So smart decisions are not impossible. We can force rogue countries to make better decisions by using the power of trade.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Boat

[SUZNV + 1,197]

53 minutes ago, Boat said:

I think all American allies should be committed as one in trade sanctions with rogue countries like Russia, China, Iran, N Korea etc. This includes Asian countries like Japan and S Korea.

This idea of a world order being bad is rubbish. Nobody including the CIA can hack. Nobody can claim international waters etc. 

The power of fairness and common sense has to rule. 
The world decided to end bunker fuels as partners. So smart decisions are not impossible. We can force rogue countries to make better decisions by using the power of trade.

I don't think it is practical. EU (Germany) wouldn't heed that call because they depend on China market for exporting cars, machines etc. unless US buy all of them. Especially in covid19 time.

I predict Biden administration will do the same like with Obama, have some big call (as big as TPP or pivoting) but actually won't do anything to stop China. On the other hand, following how Biden administration treat China in the future, we can somewhat learn more if Obama Administration was serious with China.

Edited January 29, 2021 by SUZNV

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

10 hours ago, SUZNV said:

won't do anything to stop China

The notion that China getting stopped is puzzling to me. What does that mean? What are the things that are stopped and how?

This is stated often in different kinds of media but for the life of me, I can't picture what it is.

[SUZNV + 1,197]

18 minutes ago, Strangelovesurfing said:

The notion that China getting stopped is puzzling to me. What does that mean? What are the things that are stopped and how?

This is stated often in different kinds of media but for the life of me, I can't picture what it is.

I don't know what the correct word to use. For example: stopping China from building strategic advantages in disputed islands, stopping the IP theft,  currency manipulation with some meaningful response to counter that, stop spending more but less influent in international organizations like WTO or WHO. Make sure China full filled their Commitments when joined WTO etc. Are these reasonable expectations from one of the founders of  United Nation, WTO?

Or stopping one side is catching up to US in soft power, while still get the status of developing country for low interest loan and then loans that to others with higher interest rates?

Edited January 30, 2021 by SUZNV

[frankfurter + 562]

11 hours ago, Boat said:

I think all American allies should be committed as one in trade sanctions with rogue countries like Russia, China, Iran, N Korea etc. This includes Asian countries like Japan and S Korea.

This idea of a world order being bad is rubbish. Nobody including the CIA can hack. Nobody can claim international waters etc. 

The power of fairness and common sense has to rule. 
The world decided to end bunker fuels as partners. So smart decisions are not impossible. We can force rogue countries to make better decisions by using the power of trade.

Spoken by a true racist and imperialist.  No way can murcans allow the Chinese to have what murcans have.

[Strangelovesurfing + 737]

5 minutes ago, SUZNV said:

I don't know what the correct word to use. For example: stopping China from building strategic advantages in disputed islands, stopping the IP theft,  currency manipulation with some meaningful response to counter that, stop spending more but less influent in international organizations like WTO or WHO. Make sure China full filled their Commitments when joined WTO etc. Are these reasonable expectations from one of the founder of  United Nation, WTO?

Yes, agree with everything you stated. I just can't come up with how it gets from A to B.