Politicians lied, people died

[Symmetry + 109]

13 minutes ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Then you slink back your "TrUmP's CoViD LiEs" stance? 

 

Trump didn't even use HCQ when he caught covid.

Trump's lies killed far more than under use of HCQ.

Edited January 29, 2021 by Symmetry

[Symmetry + 109]

4 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

 

Everything is political these days everything

Sadly I agree.

Social media mixes circles of people that historically didn't communicate much.  Misinformation now spreads faster than ever.

[El Nikko + 2,145]

2 minutes ago, Symmetry said:

Sadly I agree.

Social media mixes circles of people that historically didn't communicate much.  Misinformation now spreads faster than ever.

Don't cherry pick

 

[ronwagn + 6,290]

16 hours ago, Eyes Wide Open said:

The last week has been a blitzkrieg of the democratic party stance and messaging, along with corporate america taking taking sides and action. Within a few weeks one will see lawsuits and a assaults on the democratic party. Cuomo is a easy target and the republicans need a few easy wins. I am quite sure he will be the first to fall. All is not as it appears, right now the the Lincoln Project members are being dealt with..Expect more than a few surprises including Democratic defections.

Tulsi Gabbard has been talking truth to power. She belongs in the Republican Party. She is in a blue state so that would be a real win. She is, I think, more of a moderate though.  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

7 minutes ago, El Nikko said:

Don't cherry pick

 

Misinformation is  spread far faster by the mainstream media. Which is all owned by a small number of gigantic corporations. Fox News has reverted to its old self after losing their ass by opposing Trump's reelection. They are the only exception.  

[ronwagn + 6,290]

13 hours ago, Hotone said:

You quote Jim Hoft as your source of truth?  According to Wikipedia:

"The Gateway Pundit is an American far-right news and opinion website. The website is known for publishing falsehoods, hoaxes, and conspiracy theories."

The following is a recent article in The Lancet, a well respected medical journal. Basically, there is no benefit of using hydroxychloroquine.

https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanrhe/article/PIIS2665-9913(21)00030-8/fulltext

 

 

Wikipedia is a left wing source and it is not to be trusted on any politically loaded question. I use it knowing to take that into consideration. The Lancet has screwed up on the Hydroxychloroquine issue. 

Jim Hoft is very reliable. His brother has another great site justthenews.com

[Tomasz + 1,608]

The problem with all these drugs is one - they are probably effective, but in the early stage of viral reproduction, i.e. within 72 hours of symptom onset.

And at this early stage they should just be served. After that early time, it doesn't make sense as the virus multiplies.

The problem is that with high occupancy in health care, people end up in hospitals late in the disease, and these drugs are no longer able to help them.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

The poor AG in Oklahoma bought the lie that hcq was completely ineffective ????? THe fact is Oklahoma bought the junk based on a hope and now are stuck with junk. The AG has been tasked with getting their money back from the hucksters that sold it to them. Sad that hucksters are still try to push the junk today.

For sale in Oklahoma: a large stockpile of hydroxychloroquine

Last spring, the Oklahoma Department of Health purchased a stockpile of hydroxychloroquine for $2 million after former President Trump promoted the use of the antimalarial drug as a treatment for COVID-19, despite a lack of evidence. The health department is now trying to sell the drugs.

Last spring, the Oklahoma Department of Health purchased a stockpile of hydroxychloroquine for $2 million after former President Trump promoted the use of the antimalarial drug as a treatment for COVID-19, despite a lack of evidence. The health department is now trying to sell the drugs. Oklahoma Attorney General Mike Hunter was tapped to assist the department, according to Alex Gerszewski, a spokesman for Hunter. Gerszewski says the state wants to either sell the hydroxychloroquine doses back to the company it purchased them from, CA-based distributor FFF Enterprises, or to another buyer. Oklahoma has been attempting to sell its stockpile for months, according to a July report by a local news station. In the early days of the pandemic, FDA granted hydroxychloroquine emergency authorization for use in very sick COVID-19 patients. However, follow-up studies indicated that the antimalarial drug did not facilitate recovery, nor did it prevent healthy people from contracting COVID-19 or progressing to a more serious state. FDA cancelled its emergency approval for hydroxychloroquine in June.

As usual you ignore what I posted and merely repeated your wrong information. Wrong because the back off from hcq was done by illegitimate actors including drug companies hoping to capitalize on a trillion dollar bonanza. The flawed "studies" were never designed to find the truth, but rather to bury it. Oklahoma wants to get a refund, I'm sure they'll eventually get one. There are Federal regulations about returning drugs, likely written by the drug company lobbyists. But the drugs could go to India or anywhere there's a malaria problem, albeit at much lower profit. 

[JoMack + 549]

1 hour ago, El Nikko said:

The same Lancet that pushed a publication that claimed 5-7% CFI for Covid 

Everything is political these days Enthalpic...everything

When you start getting facts from the common sense side of the equation, do you just get on here and change your profile?  Just wondering if Enthalpic which is some sort of translational word of the day, seems to have abandoned all hope and changed to another somewhat strange antonym of the same type of word meaning without any reality.  Bizarre.

[Ward Smith + 6,615]

1 minute ago, Tomasz said:

The problem with all these drugs is one - they are probably effective, but in the early stage of viral reproduction, i.e. within 72 hours of symptom onset.

And at this early stage they should just be served. After that early time, it doesn't make sense as the virus multiplies.

The problem is that with high occupancy in health care, people end up in hospitals late in the disease, and these drugs are no longer able to help them.

 

The virus is called SARS 2, the disease is called Covid 19. The virus isn't killing anyone it's the body's overreaction to it that creates the problems that kill folks with comorbidities primarily. Hcq works very well at suppressing this overreaction, which is comparable to a histamine response, for instance those allergic to bee stings. Patients have had their lungs fill with fluids their own body is producing to attack the virus. This causes the pneumonia as other bugs get into the act, in the same way that mucous attracts infections. 

BTW this is similar to the Spanish Flu 100 years ago. Stopping the overreaction in its tracks is enormously beneficial, even for healthy people who can run thru the cycle in several days and be fully healthy, rather than the weeks it can cause when the overreaction occurs. 

[El Nikko + 2,145]

8 minutes ago, JoMack said:

When you start getting facts from the common sense side of the equation, do you just get on here and change your profile?  Just wondering if Enthalpic which is some sort of translational word of the day, seems to have abandoned all hope and changed to another somewhat strange antonym of the same type of word meaning without any reality.  Bizarre.

I suppose we should listen to the Enthalpics...I guess they're in charge now. 

I would say though if it looks like an Enthalpic, smells like an Enthalpic and tastes like an Enthalpic then it probably is an Enthalpic.

[ronwagn + 6,290]

43 minutes ago, Tomasz said:

The problem with all these drugs is one - they are probably effective, but in the early stage of viral reproduction, i.e. within 72 hours of symptom onset.

And at this early stage they should just be served. After that early time, it doesn't make sense as the virus multiplies.

The problem is that with high occupancy in health care, people end up in hospitals late in the disease, and these drugs are no longer able to help them.

The problem in the USA and Europe is that nobody followed the logical course of what works and has been proven to work. Quick treatment with hydroxychloroquine and various antibiotics. Our medical establishments made all the wrong moves, advised against hydroxychloroquine, against masks, then for. Overregulated businesses and churches etc. They demanded thousands of ventilators that were not needed and killed people by tearing up their lungs. They learned that steroids helped save people but were slow to act. Now slow to distribute vaccines! It all comes down to too much regulation restricting peoples options to obtain their own pharmaceuticals and make their own decisions. Now Fauci, the worst of the regulators, was given more power. 

[QuarterCenturyVet + 312]

2 hours ago, Symmetry said:

Trump didn't even use HCQ when he caught covid.

Trump's lies killed far more than under use of HCQ.

Which ones are those, exactly? 

 

Keep moving those goalposts, clown. 

[SUZNV + 1,197]

1 hour ago, Tomasz said:

The problem with all these drugs is one - they are probably effective, but in the early stage of viral reproduction, i.e. within 72 hours of symptom onset.

And at this early stage they should just be served. After that early time, it doesn't make sense as the virus multiplies.

The problem is that with high occupancy in health care, people end up in hospitals late in the disease, and these drugs are no longer able to help them.

Because when it is severed, the victim may not die because of Covid19 anymore but cytokine storm, where the body starts to attack its own cells and tissues rather than just fighting off the virus and that's how people have organ damaged and their function may have lifetime affected. So HCQ cannot do anything by then. Your only hope is that  cytokine  storm passed and you are still alive. It will be harder to breath with the lung tissues are under attacked so that's why the venting needed.

Edited January 29, 2021 by SUZNV

[notsonice + 1,255]

3 hours ago, Ward Smith said:

As usual you ignore what I posted and merely repeated your wrong information. Wrong because the back off from hcq was done by illegitimate actors including drug companies hoping to capitalize on a trillion dollar bonanza. The flawed "studies" were never designed to find the truth, but rather to bury it. Oklahoma wants to get a refund, I'm sure they'll eventually get one. There are Federal regulations about returning drugs, likely written by the drug company lobbyists. But the drugs could go to India or anywhere there's a malaria problem, albeit at much lower profit. 

ignore what you post? why would anyone believe anything you post as you post garbage all the time. The information is wrong because it does not fit into your garbage? If the drug is so good , please contact the AG of Oklahoma and buy it all up, I bet you he will give a great deal. Back up your claims and go buy the lot he has to offer, Other wise as usual you are posting garbage.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

On 1/29/2021 at 8:49 AM, Eyes Wide Open said:

Ohh it's not hunting me, that would have been lobbed Mr. Wards way. Im not quite sure just why, but as men with far deeper intellect  than i muster state so eloquently...Such Is Life!

 

Finally, I fixed the original message.  As you were..

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

6 hours ago, QuarterCenturyVet said:

Yeah, frickin hydroxychloroquine works tremendously when used the right way, but dont let facts and common sense stand in your way. 

Edited 6 hours ago by QuarterCenturyVet
@'d wrong person

When used the right way.  Funny how Falsi's CDC and the media can't get that detail right.  I went through a bunch of articles on this yesterday..Most still quote the statistics when using it on patients that are already on ventilators, and that's the main statistic where they get their failure data!  They rarely say anything about combining it with anything else, and this is their secondary statistic to indicate failures.  If they are using it the way that 98% of the news articles say they do, we ALL know they will not succeed and people will be adversely affected.  But, as QCV said above, "don't let facts and common sense stand in your way."

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

1 hour ago, notsonice said:

ignore what you post? why would anyone believe anything you post as you post garbage all the time. The information is wrong because it does not fit into your garbage? If the drug is so good , please contact the AG of Oklahoma and buy it all up, I bet you he will give a great deal. Back up your claims and go buy the lot he has to offer, Other wise as usual you are posting garbage.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2020/08/17/mn_governor_quietly_reverses_course_on_hydroxychloroquine__143978.html

 

August 17, 2020

MN Governor Quietly Reverses Course on Hydroxychloroquine

Though his critics are likely loath to admit it, there’s reason to believe the president may have been on to something. In recent weeks a chorus of voices in the medical community has emerged to challenge the view that hydroxychloroquine is ineffective as a COVID treatment. Dr. Harvey A. Risch, a professor of epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health, said a full analysis of the literature suggests hydroxychloroquine may be the key to defeating the coronavirus.

 

.

Edited January 30, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

5 hours ago, Tomasz said:

The problem with all these drugs is one - they are probably effective, but in the early stage of viral reproduction, i.e. within 72 hours of symptom onset.

And at this early stage they should just be served. After that early time, it doesn't make sense as the virus multiplies.

The problem is that with high occupancy in health care, people end up in hospitals late in the disease, and these drugs are no longer able to help them.

And what, pray tell, is wrong with prophylactic medicine?  What you stated is in fact largely what I have read is the truth, but the agencies and lapdog media latch onto how the drug made it worse when applied in the later stages of serious illness.  WHY?

The conversation has been, since very early on around here, that more use on patients at the outset of symptoms will STOP most people from advancing to serious illness.  Nobody is going on about them being a cure (do you notice that I keep trying to avoid having to type hydroxychloroquine?  ) or that they be used without a side order of some particular zinc compound (I don't claim to know).  Some people wanted to take them as sort of a vaccine, but even though there's NO DATA that says the practice of early or simply prophylactic dosing is dangerous, they are not allowed by politicians.  

The lunatics are running the asylum! 

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

It's worth posting @Eyes Wide Open's entire article.  This is simply a case where the medical community of doctors came together and presented overwhelming evidence, facts, and experience, and the government DID ACT in the public's best interest instead of partisan interest.  Granted the election's over so the nice governor may have seen no more reason to live the lie.  You be the judge:

 

MN Governor Quietly Reverses Course on Hydroxychloroquine

By Jon Miltimore

August 17, 2020

This past week Minnesota became the second state to reject regulations that effectively ban the controversial drug hydroxychloroquine for use by COVID-19 patients.

The decision, which comes two weeks after the Ohio Board of Pharmacy reversed an effective ban of its own, was rightfully praised by local health care advocates.  “We are pleased that Governor [Tim] Walz lifted his March 27 Executive Order 20-23 restrictions on chloroquine and hydroxychloroquine,” said Twila Brase, president of Citizens’ Council for Health Freedom.

The reversal by Walz, a first-term Democrat, clears the way for doctors to prescribe hydroxychloroquine, a drug commonly used to treat malaria and other conditions but one the FDA has declined to recommend for COVID-19 treatment.

The decision is the latest development in the weird saga of arguably the most divisive drug in modern history. The acrimony began in March after President Trump tweeted that hydroxychloroquine had the potential to be “one of the biggest game changers in the history of medicine” as a treatment for the coronavirus. 

The tweet and similar statements provoked an avalanche of media criticism, with many claiming that the president was going to get people killed. Critics pointed out that medical evidence suggests the medication is linked to a fatal arrhythmia and some trials show no benefits in coronavirus treatments.

Though his critics are likely loath to admit it, there’s reason to believe the president may have been on to something. In recent weeks a chorus of voices in the medical community has emerged to challenge the view that hydroxychloroquine is ineffective as a COVID treatment. Dr. Harvey A. Risch, a professor of epidemiology at the Yale School of Public Health, said a full analysis of the literature suggests hydroxychloroquine may be the key to defeating the coronavirus.

“Physicians who have been using these medications in the face of widespread skepticism have been truly heroic,” Risch wrote in Newsweek, adding that a full review of the COVID literature on the drug shows “clear-cut and significant benefits.”

Prescribing hydroxychloroquine in the early stages of the virus is key, Risch said, and others agree. Steven Hatfill, a veteran virologist and adjunct assistant professor at the George Washington University Medical Center, says the literature supporting hydroxychloroquine is overwhelming.

“There are now 53 studies that show positive results of hydroxychloroquine in COVID infections,” Hatfill wrote in RealClearPolitics. “There are 14 global studies that show neutral or negative results -- and 10 of them were of patients in very late stages of COVID-19, where no antiviral drug can be expected to have much effect.”

One of the positive studies, published by Henry Ford Health System, was a large-scale retrospective of six hospitals. Analyzing 2,541 patients, it found that those treated with hydroxychloroquine alone died at about half the rate of patients not treated with it.

It’s unclear if it was this research that prompted Walz to reverse his March ruling, which ordered the Board of Pharmacists to instruct pharmacists to not issue hydroxychloroquine prescriptions unless the diagnosis was “appropriate” -- which halted any off-label prescription requests. 

The reason it’s unclear is that Walz has been mum on why he rescinded his order. There’s been no announcement or new stories. Local lawmakers told me they had no idea Walz had reversed course.

“There’s been absolutely no transparency here,” said Dr. Scott Jensen, a Republican state senator who criticized Walz’s approach. Jensen, who has practiced medicine for more than 30 years in Minnesota, told me pharmacists he’s worked with for years told him they could not fill a hydroxychloroquine prescription for COVID because of the March executive order.

He agrees that hydroxychloroquine is terribly misunderstood by the public and said politicians need to take a step back. “Hydroxychloroquine is one of the most studied drugs in the history of mankind,” Jensen said. “My wife was on hydroxychloroquine for 15 years. It’s been on the World Health Organization’s list of essential medicines for decades. It’s been in play since 1955, the year after I was born.”

Hydroxychloroquine might be politically controversial, but that hasn’t stopped some of its critics from taking advantage of the drug. In a May interview, former presidential hopeful Sen. Amy Klobuchar admitted her husband was successfully treated with hydroxychloroquine, a medication she had mocked on Twitter.

The politics of hydroxychloroquine are unlikely to cool before November’s presidential election.  Yet, if Walz’s decision is any indication, at least some leaders are starting to recognize the ethical dilemma of using the long arm of government to stand between suffering patients and a drug that may have the potential to save them.

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

6 hours ago, ronwagn said:

Tulsi Gabbard has been talking truth to power. She belongs in the Republican Party. She is in a blue state so that would be a real win. She is, I think, more of a moderate though.  

Agreed she will move to the right before this is all over...speaking to that issue it has begun

https://www.foxnews.com/media/washington-post-rips-cuomos-cares-remark-nursing-home-death

Washington Post rips Cuomo's 'Who cares?' remark on nursing home deaths: 'We should care'

WaPo reporter Aaron Blakez: Report from the New York AG 'raises the very real prospect of a cover-up'

Edited January 30, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open

[Tomasz + 1,608]

The problem with Coronavirus is that people have different levels of the immune system

In healthy people, it reacts like a light aggressive cavalry - it attacks the virus immediately with small groups of troops at once and being lightly armed does not destroy the area of the battle

For some, unfortunately, this system works like a heavily armed cavalry - it takes them a long time to start cavalry charge, it attack the virus with massed army, destroying the virus and everything on its way.

The latter is a cytokine storm, and since there are especially many cytokines in people with fatness, it explains well the relationship between obesity and mortality in COVID.

[Dan Warnick + 6,100]

It is great that the authorities were able to track most if not all of the real troublemakers at the January 6th protests, and bring many of them to varying degrees of justice.  The surveillance technology proved itself and the authorities were able to locate suspects all over the country.  Impressive, if not a tad chilling.  That was a lot of people to sort and track!

Why, I'll bet with that kind of technology they could track people for all kinds of purposes.

And I'm sure they do use it for all kinds of purposes.

But I never heard news of lots of people from either the law enforcement side or the protestor side being hospitalized for Covid-19.  Odd, that.

[SUZNV + 1,197]

11 hours ago, Tomasz said:

The problem with Coronavirus is that people have different levels of the immune system

In healthy people, it reacts like a light aggressive cavalry - it attacks the virus immediately with small groups of troops at once and being lightly armed does not destroy the area of the battle

For some, unfortunately, this system works like a heavily armed cavalry - it takes them a long time to start cavalry charge, it attack the virus with massed army, destroying the virus and everything on its way.

The latter is a cytokine storm, and since there are especially many cytokines in people with fatness, it explains well the relationship between obesity and mortality in COVID.

I agree, and that is why no medicine can be effective in later stage, including HCQ.

Edited January 30, 2021 by SUZNV

[Eyes Wide Open + 3,554]

1 hour ago, SUZNV said:

I agree, and that is why no medicine can be effective in later stage, including HCQ.

HCQ was never meant to cure a virus, frankly to date there is no known cure for the common cold which is a virus.

To migrate a cold it is common practice to use various types of medication. From aspirin to chicken soup, personally I enjoy whiskey and honey, a marvelous remedy also known as a hot toddy.

Yet it is now well known cytokine storms do kill the body destroys itself. HCQ mitigates these storm's, 

At a time when there was no known therapy for covid 19, science just walked away from any attempt to mitigate this storm.. How does something like that occur...it still stuns me,how many lives may have or could have been saved. 

 

Edited January 30, 2021 by Eyes Wide Open